Cutting a parent off vs trying to manage it

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

First post here.  I had an accidental revelation a few days ago when I was ruminating about some stuff related to family dynamics.  About ten years ago I recall coming to some sort of quasi-conclusion that my mom had BPD, but the conclusion has sort of slipped away a bit in my mind since then, had felt sort of dull or indifferent.

Yet, things become hyper sharp when I read a few articles the other day.  I happened upon "splitting", and I am sure many of you are familiar with the term.  The fact that this concept had a name astonished me, and continues to do so.  That so perfectly describes so so many ****ed up aspects of my life and childhood.  The good child and the bad child.  People flipping back and forth.  The thought distortions.  Etc.  But particularly that strange quality of being able to idealize and antagonize the same human being in such an extreme manner at different times - that and the accompanying behavior/logic has just always struck me as so absurd, that it can almost not be real.  It is indescribable and not understandable to people who don't have a BPD in their life.  So that being named to me was so powerful and has led me here and to a place of - what I hope is a new level of healing, and being honest with myself.

So I come here not to write my story (maybe I will in the future) but instead to pose a question that I ponder frequently ...

Is there any real value in maintaining a relationship with a BPD parent?

Of course the answer is super nuanced, but my own opinion, when I look at things rationally, the only reason to do so is in to avoid severe problems with other relatives.  Cutting a BPD off will make the BPD reach out to easily manipulated non-BPD relatives who lack good boundaries.  Then maybe get the non-BPD relative to antagonize or guilt you.  Or other sorts of weird manipulation could occur, you know how it rolls.  But if the BPD were in a vacuum, in my view having a relationship with them is a comical prospect.

Yet, I notice people like my sister, and others here, at the guilt and difficulty separating from the BPD.  For me, I just don't know, but it was never a question for me.  Maybe I am deluding myself with my own occasional arrogance, but I just wanted to get the **** out of there ASAP.   I mostly just feel angry and sad ... I want her in my life as little as possible. I don't want to have a relationship with my mom, I only do it because she doesn't really damage my life much.  I don't feel very sentimental to say the least.

So yeah, I am wondering what others relationship status is with their BPD parent.  Mine lives in another country fortunately, literally moved there by my formerly totally delusional sister who is finally starting to realize that my mom's behavior is unacceptable - oh and it only took her dragging my poor old mom from the USA to Israel ... and of course that instability has made my mom go bats***, she ****ing hates my brother in law and he refuses to talk with her, she barely talks with my sister ... oh and my sister is pregnant.  She has thicker skin than me so I guess she will be OK.  I actually think it might be good, because I am hopeful my sister will finally start to believe that boundaries are a GOOD THING!  And then with two kids having boundaries on her, maybe that will change things a tad?

But yeah anyway, my mom is an ocean away and I'm the good child and so it's fine enough.  But I have strict boundaries with her at this point in my life and basically consider her dead, or at least I try to as much as I can.

What is your relationship like with your BPD parent?

[sp|ne]

Hi all,

First post here.  I had an accidental revelation a few days ago when I was ruminating about some stuff related to family dynamics.  About ten years ago I recall coming to some sort of quasi-conclusion that my mom had BPD, but the conclusion has sort of slipped away a bit in my mind since then, had felt sort of dull or indifferent.

Yet, things become hyper sharp when I read a few articles the other day.  I happened upon "splitting", and I am sure many of you are familiar with the term.  The fact that this concept had a name astonished me, and continues to do so.  That so perfectly describes so so many ****ed up aspects of my life and childhood.  The good child and the bad child.  People flipping back and forth.  The thought distortions.  Etc.  But particularly that strange quality of being able to idealize and antagonize the same human being in such an extreme manner at different times - that and the accompanying behavior/logic has just always struck me as so absurd, that it can almost not be real.  It is indescribable and not understandable to people who don't have a BPD in their life.  So that being named to me was so powerful and has led me here and to a place of - what I hope is a new level of healing, and being honest with myself.

So I come here not to write my story (maybe I will in the future) but instead to pose a question that I ponder frequently ...

Is there any real value in maintaining a relationship with a BPD parent?

Of course the answer is super nuanced, but my own opinion, when I look at things rationally, the only reason to do so is in to avoid severe problems with other relatives.  Cutting a BPD off will make the BPD reach out to easily manipulated non-BPD relatives who lack good boundaries.  Then maybe get the non-BPD relative to antagonize or guilt you.  Or other sorts of weird manipulation could occur, you know how it rolls.  But if the BPD were in a vacuum, in my view having a relationship with them is a comical prospect.

Yet, I notice people like my sister, and others here, at the guilt and difficulty separating from the BPD.  For me, I just don't know, but it was never a question for me.  Maybe I am deluding myself with my own occasional arrogance, but I just wanted to get the **** out of there ASAP.   I mostly just feel angry and sad ... I want her in my life as little as possible. I don't want to have a relationship with my mom, I only do it because she doesn't really damage my life much.  I don't feel very sentimental to say the least.

So yeah, I am wondering what others relationship status is with their BPD parent.  Mine lives in another country fortunately, literally moved there by my formerly totally delusional sister who is finally starting to realize that my mom's behavior is unacceptable - oh and it only took her dragging my poor old mom from the USA to Israel ... and of course that instability has made my mom go bats***, she ****ing hates my brother in law and he refuses to talk with her, she barely talks with my sister ... oh and my sister is pregnant.  She has thicker skin than me so I guess she will be OK.  I actually think it might be good, because I am hopeful my sister will finally start to believe that boundaries are a GOOD THING!  And then with two kids having boundaries on her, maybe that will change things a tad?

But yeah anyway, my mom is an ocean away and I'm the good child and so it's fine enough.  But I have strict boundaries with her at this point in my life and basically consider her dead, or at least I try to as much as I can.

What is your relationship like with your BPD parent?

[beatricex]

hi splne,
Well, like you I didn't see any point in having a relationship with my Mom, so about 15 years ago I went No Contact.  That lasted 7 years, and by your theory, you correctly predicted that yes, I resumed contact because I missed my Dad.  They kind of go together.

She was better for about 7 years, but then the splitting occured.  Actually, the thing that kind of put me over the edge this last time was she twice told me she thought that my brother in law was a criminal.  I won't give the specifics, but she was real specific and she brought it up to me on two separate occasions.  Both times, as soon as my Dad was out of earshot.  Like a ton of bricks, it hit me "she has not changed at all, in fact she's gotten worse."  I do believe the reason she told me her theory about my brother in law was to "put me in my place."  Basically she was giving me the idea that if I crossed her, she would do something similiar to me.  Tell everyone she knows that I'm - I don't know, but the lie would be horrible and intolerable.  She has this pattern of making up terrible gossip about others.  It's a control thing.

I couldn't tolerate it, I initiated the NC process again, which took about a year and a half to actually implement (I'm not really even sure she gets that I have gone NC with her again).

Emails are blocked, phone numbers are blocked.  She did drive over here once, but seemed to chicken out and just left us a note (we were home, so she didn't try very hard to get our attention). She is surely on a campaign to enlist my spouse's help in painting me as the one with the mental problem now.  I do have problems, but they're not open for discussion WITH HER.  Telling a family member my problems is reserved for those who will be sympathetic, who will listen, who will not make me feel worse but will actually be helpful.  In a million years, I would never confide in her, why would I do that she doesn't even listen to me?  Also, it would give her ammo to then go gossip maliciously about me behind my back.  To everyone and anyone who would listen.  I have a big family.  My ears are already burning.  But, I'm proud of myself, because this time, I didn't facilitate my own demise.  I didn't tell her anything so she will have to just blindly and creatively make all of it up.

As I write this, it doesn't sound that bad, all she's doing is talking.  But it is that bad, because she's my mother and she's supposed to have my back (not be stabbing me in the back), and she's supposed to care (she doesn't) and she's supposed to love me and listen.  I don't think she's capable of any of that, so ya, why try to have a relationship?  The very elements of the relationship are missing, and that is that one person (her) isn't participating, except in some sick and twisted way.  For morbid pleasure.  To use me as her tool, in her sick warped mind game.  And I'm convinced that the soothing she feels is only temporary.  So, she will need another "fix" and that will require knocking someone down a peg or two so she feels better in pretty short order.  I would really like to stay off her radar for like the next decade or so.  Let her find someone else to toy with.

I guess it has to get "that bad" for people to take that dramatic of an action to actually go No Contact.  I read stories here and wonder why anyone stays, but I think it's because BPD is on a spectrum and all of us are at a different place in our journeys.  Some of us are at the beginning, where we think "oh, if I could get her into therapy, all would be ok" and some of us are like laughing our head's off - like that was so 30 years ago, that I thought that.  And then some of us are just feeling huge guilt.  Been there done that, done all of that.  Guess that's why I'm here posting.  Because if I had really resolved it all in my mind I wouldn't be here, I'd just be enjoying my life.
 
b

[Notwendy]

What is my relationship with my BPD parent?


It's complicated.

The short answer is that it is what I call "LC"- a cordial but non emotional relationship based on my own choices and what I personally can feel ok with, well at least the most OK because it's not an easy relationship no matter what choice is made.

I think you stated the main reason was that other relatives are enmeshed with her and that if I were to cut her off, it would have to mean cutting them all off as the drama that would ensue would be difficult. There really is no way to have no contact with her unless I did this, and this also would be difficult because the younger generation is in contact with their same age cousins now and they would not want to cut contact with them.

For example, my mother has told her family " Notwendy is keeping me from my grandchildren" which isn't true but since they all feel sorry for her- any news they see, any picture on social media- they send to her and tell her. I send her pictures too, but they don't know that. They feel obligated to keep her informed. So I could cut contact with her, and there would still be contact and drama with her circle.

Although my father was my mother's enabler, he did the best he could to be a good father to me. I actually tried NC with my mother, briefly, ( it was a while ago) but still thought I could have a relationship with him. That was impossible. They were a package deal.

When my father passed away, my mother by then was elderly. At this point cutting her off really felt wrong to me. I had the choice at this point because at this time, she was angry at me at the time and cut me off. But I still didn't feel like it was the right thing for me to do. Our relationship isn't the normal mother daughter one. It never was. People assume she's being difficult due to her age but this is how she's always been. Manipulative, deceitful and verbally abusive. Fortunately my father did plan well for their elder years and she's been able to afford help at home but since she keeps her financial information secret from us, we don't know what is going on and I think she's made a mess of things but I don't know the details. She has to be in total control - it's always been that way and she always had it that way. So I visit, but keep an emotional distance.

These are hard choices to make but I think it's best to decide according to you, not their behavior or making the decision contingent on them.

[Imatter33]

Im really glad i happened upon this post before writing my own.
I am NC with Bpd mom for 2.5 years and it has affected other family members quite a bit.

2 siblings don't speak to me, and the other one sends a text once every 6 months. Its quite hard to want a familial relationship with them (but not want to open my life (or heart) back to my mother. I love her a lot but when I think about the forthcoming BPD traits and push on my boundaries...I think...what is the point?

Do I really want to go back to manipulations just to satisfy a familial craving?

I am missing my FOO (family of origin)  bc things are going well for me and I want to share my joy.

But could they (BPD mom or siblings) even experience that? Doubtful. It would probably start out as happiness and turn into jealousy and weeping about their life.

For my sanity I stay NC and I pay the price of not being able to have my siblings to "do life with"

Most of the time It is okay.

And other times I just brace for my sadness.


It will pass though.

[Notwendy]

Yes unfortunately this has the potential to split a family.

Even with LC, disagreements with my mother have distanced some of her family from me.

There doesn't seem to be a right/wrong way- we just do the best we can with the choices we make.

[Methuen]

It's complicated.

I am an only child.  My mom has siblings but they are all in their 90's, live 800 miles away in different directions, and so they exist on the telephone only.  They can't use a computer like my mom can.  For all intents and purposes, I am my mom's only family.  I live in a small town.  If you talk to anyone for long enough, there's less than 6 degrees of separation between any of us, so everyone is somehow connected.  Since mom is optically such a good person, it's hard to bail on her.  Also, although her BPD traits have messed me up in some ways, and complicate my life and my happiness, she wasn't terrible 100% of the time.  I had opportunities because of her, so it wasn't 100% bad.  So I do what NotWendy does, I have contact, but privately, I have detached emotionally.  I never came out and told her that's what I was going to do.  But it is what I have done.  She depends on me and H because she can't cope with living independently, but we manage because we have put boundaries in place.  What we don't do to support her independent living, she gets others to do such as her friends, or she pays people to do for her.  Her needs are a bottomless pit.  A black hole that sucks you in, if we didn't have boundaries.  But in my situation, I couldn't go NC permanently.  I've had bouts of temporary NC, but not with the intent of keeping it permanent.  More to look after my own well-being and stay out of a certain ward in the hospital.  If I wasn't an only child maybe things would be different.  But every one of our situations is so different (even though what we share is a pwBPD), that what works for some of us can never work for others.  I have a cousin who is completely NC with her mother (my mom's sister).  I get it, and I know it was what she had to do to save herself.  I totally respect her for that decision.  

To answer your question, what is my relationship like with my BPD parent?  To others, it would look normal.  To me it feels risky.  When my mom has a fall (she's had many), she dysregulates and goes nutso.  Then I am terrified of her.  It's the things she says to me.  I used to have escape plans.  I don't any more because as she's aged, she's become immobile.  So far, she has managed to recover somewhat from her falls, and then she slowly gets herself regulated again.  But she's all twisted up physically, and can't walk more than a few steps at a time.  She's so weak physically that she's a risk for another fall every time she takes a step.  Yet she refuses assisted living.  My relationship with her is to meet her needs which I feel comfortable meeting and which I choose to meet.  I do her grocery shopping, help her order things online, mail her snail mail for her, bring her meals to eat, listen to her talk about all her problems and those of her friends...  It probably amounts to 5-7 hours per week.  What I do not do is any of her house cleaning, her gardening, or her personal care (when she has a fall or any other time).  Those are hard boundaries for me, because I have learned the hard way.  As for an actual relationship, it's pretty detached.  We talk about the weather, I listen to her talk about her body and family problems, but I tell her nothing about myself.  Nothing.  She doesn't seem to notice.  So my relationship with my mother is pretty much like a relationship with a casual acquaintance, except that I do way more to support her living in her house than I would do for a casual acquaintance.

I can relate to the splitting.  So many stories.  It's so confusing growing up with that.  As a child I was desperate to please her.  Tried to be the perfect child.  To a degree it worked because it made her look good.  I was both the golden child, and the scape goat, at different times.  When I finally clued in to BPD, and started learning some things, well... that was when I started to figure out I wasn't the problem.  I was 57.

Going NC wouldn't be a risk for me, because I have no siblings or other family to lose.  My H and our adult kids are my only family.  Distant relatives are so far away, that on the very rare occasions when we do see each other, it's usually in a restaurant over a meal.  Distant relatives don't invite us for night when we are in the area.  It's a family where nobody wants the work of making the beds.  It's not convenient.  So very superficial.  They also don't come to visit because we are so out of the way.  What's interesting to me is that having a person with BPD in our life has the common outcome of us non's feeling isolated.  I have always felt alone.  Only child.  No siblings. No family nearby.  You have family, but the BPD person triangulates, and isolates, and so many non's end up isolated from their families because of this.  Different path.  Same outcome.  Interesting.  

[Notwendy]

Methuen, our relationships with our BPD mothers are similar, except that mine doesn't live close enough for me to do those things for her that you do. Like you, I don't really mind doing an errand for a parent, but it's the endless bottomless pit of need and unhappiness and the constant push for more because it's not ever enough for her that makes it difficult. Mine also refuses assisted living. I think it's a control thing. I also think it's better that she's not in assisted living as then her behavior would impact others and I don't think the staff would tolerate that. Living on her own, she can have different helpers but still be in her own home and not have to interact with others unless she chooses to. So we prefer she stay in place where she is- and think it's the best option for her.

As for an actual relationship, it's pretty detached.  We talk about the weather, I listen to her talk about her body and family problems, but I tell her nothing about myself.  Nothing.  She doesn't seem to notice.  So my relationship with my mother is pretty much like a relationship with a casual acquaintance, except that I do way more to support her living in her house than I would do for a casual acquaintance.

Exactly---

I am not an only child, which gives me comfort as there's someone else who understands, but we all get it here and can support each other too. My relationship with her FOO is superficial.