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Author Topic: To travel or not to travel...  (Read 520 times)
JanetF

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
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« on: July 22, 2021, 01:23:19 PM »

Hi all. I have never done this before...hoping someone out there can help me feel less alone. I have an aunt w/BPD who lives in another state that is still making my life miserable. She is extremely smart, wealthy, and high functioning w/no children of her own. While I know that she loves me very much, her mood swings are vicious and explosive. It was so bad at one point a BPD therapist told me to cut ties w/her altogether. How can you do that? I never thought that was an option being that my family is so small. She likes to get me alone (in person or on the phone) and eviscerate me with mean comments, accusatory behavior, and desperate acts for attention. If she is in a nice mood, she often offers huge amounts of money, trips, and gifts which makes me very uncomfortable. We have taken previous family trips with her (since everyone is too afraid to say no) only to be tortured for the trip's entirety. Her focus is almost always solely on me and I am left to navigate these waters alone. My parents seem so happy she leaves them alone that they have let me take the brunt of this bad behavior most of my life (starting as a teenager, here we are 20 years later). She is currently begging me to take a trip with her alone to Europe which is something I absolutely cannot imagine doing - I simply would not make it mentally. I don't know how to say no. I simply don't have the tools and I know that she will throw the tantrum of all tantrums. Simple phone call boundaries are ignored as it is. I am a full time health care worker that is hanging on by a thread after the pandemic with no gas left in the tank to take this on. Maybe someone has experienced this before? Thank you for reading my post.
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pursuingJoy
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« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2021, 03:45:02 PM »

Many thanks to you and your coworkers. I cannot imagine your exhaustion!

I know that she will throw the tantrum of all tantrums.

What does this look like?

I am a full time health care worker that is hanging on by a thread after the pandemic with no gas left in the tank to take this on.

As scary as it is, sometimes it really is as simple as just saying no. If you need  a reason, the above statement sounds as good as any. Keep it simple, don't make it personal to her, and repeat as necessary.

We're here to support in any way we can!
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   Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What! You too? ~CS Lewis
sp|ne

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« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2021, 03:53:42 PM »

Definitely a massive no-go, do not go on that trip, **** no.

Not sure what you will need to do to work on boundaries, maybe work with a counselor?  But boundaries with these people are make or break.  My wife really helped me develop boundaries, so partners and non-BPD non-family allies are a great resource.

The fewer boundaries they have, the more they push.  They will freak out if you push against the boundaries ... but that is the natural part of the process.

Breaking ties with family is hard and everyone goes through it differently.  I broke ties with my BPD mom for a few years, but that made her much more passive and now things are more or less manageable.  A lot of people feel a lot of guilt about that, and I did for a really long time, until it got to a point where I just couldn't take it anymore.

I guess the biggest thing is ... so everyone is afraid to say no, right?  That enables the behavior.  You stop the cycle by saying no.  Then they freak out.  But that doesn't last forever.  You let them freak out, don't react/respond.  Do whatever you need to do, remember their condition, etc.  Then, they slowly learn that they can't push your boundaries.

The fact that your parents are happy that you have to deal with this is upsetting to me.  They should protect you better IMO. 

I guess at this point if you feel like you don't have the tools, maybe just a simple email and then a total block would be the best bet.  Block the phone, email, block everything.

If not, she will just keep pushing and you will keep suffering.

Just please don't go on the trip!

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JanetF

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Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2021, 03:54:18 PM »

Thank you! And thank you for listening, sometimes just hearing someone say they have been through it helps.

I hope I am replying correctly - re: tantrums - In the past there has been a lot of screaming, name calling, crying, suicidal threats, violence and aggression (throwing glass bottles, breaking things). I guess the one good thing is that most conversations are over the phone. It is always "no one loves me" and "I am going to die this year." She reverts to her 5yo self and begins speaking in baby voices and crying. It is a complete rollercoaster of emotions that leaves me w/whiplash every time - even when I clearly know my audience! You cannot win, no matter what. She has a very high IQ and it is as if she almost outsmarts you when trying to put boundaries in place.
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pursuingJoy
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« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2021, 04:15:38 PM »

So you know what to expect. Let her throw her tantrum. In the words of my counselor, "She'll get over it."

You'll also feel strong feelings at first, that's ok. They are just feelings. Accept them and move forward.

It helps to prepare and practice a simple statement, repeat as necessary, and come back here for support and encouragement.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

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   Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What! You too? ~CS Lewis
beatricex
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« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2021, 05:17:52 PM »

hi JanetF,
A rich aunt that is BPD that acts like a 5 yo and wants to spoil me rotten that I cannot say no to?  Can't say it has happened to me before.

Can I ask you a question.  You said you cannot do it, but you are here asking how to do it.  Also you mentioned a therapist suggested to you to cut off ties and that your parents seem to use you as BPD bait.

OK, so there's more than one boundary issue here.  The aunt, and also your parents.  Is it that you can't do it because you have never tried?  The excuse seems easier than practicing this (the family is very small).  The fact she has no kids of her own or that's she's rich and implied is that she will likely leave you some money if you can navigate this to the end?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Doesn't seem worth it.  Are you married or dating someone?  What do they say about all this?

Thank you for hanging in there for the COVID pandemic and giving of yourself every day at the office, really admire you for that.

OK, so you need a game plan.  A real one, I hope you come back for more discussion on this, as you seem to at least recognize there's a problem and that my friend is the first step.
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
b
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JanetF

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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Family other
Relationship status: Married
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2021, 06:34:30 PM »

@beatricex Rich or not this woman, at times, has been a paralyzing source of anxiety since I'm 15 years old. Now that I am in my 30s and probably a little smarter, I am wanting to do better & change this situation. I want NOTHING from her, especially whatever expectations she may have attached to giving money. I have never asked her for money - after adamantly offering to pay for things like my college education and my wedding, I was never given a dime and I am STILL picking up the MASSIVE pieces today on my own. My post was never about money, as you said "it does not seem worth it." I could not agree more. Never has been, never will be.

Before recently speaking with a BPD therapist, I had not known that cutting ties was even an option, tbh I was initially shocked at the suggestion! After two decades in therapy, NO ONE has ever suggested this time me! Hard to believe. Quite frankly it seems impossible when the rest of my family will not do that which complicates everything. My father is 64 years old and still thinks his sister will wake up and be normal tomorrow "if she wants" and my mother avoids confrontation at all costs. So there's just me. And yes, I have a super supportive husband.

So yes, I think you might be right...it's about boundaries all around it seems...which is why I am here. Previous replies have states that non-BPD family members have acted like allies - this is not my situation (except for my husband). So I am often feeling alone trying to navigate this world. Work in progress.
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beatricex
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2021, 08:23:46 PM »

ok, so if the rich aunt is not an issue, why even mention she's rich?

My Mom is super manipulative, dirt poor.  Doesn't stop her from manipulating me and everyone in my FOO.

Why do you think you need someone else in your family to agree with you?  Just asking, if I'm annoying you put up a boundary and say so, don't beat around the bush.  Say hey b, that was out of line (see, it's really quite easy, even with a stranger).

You came here for "help" so when you then resist the idea, I have to wonder, why come here?

btw, if you click on my profile you can read my story, I am almost 50 yo and yes I went No contact with my entire FOO all by myself.  didn't need permission and didn't even ask.  Remeber it's your life, you are at the wheel baby.

b
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pursuingJoy
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2021, 07:46:22 AM »

JanetF, it IS hard to understand how no one suggested no contact after so long. Cheers to your therapist, it sounds like you found a good one.

So yes, I think you might be right...it's about boundaries all around it seems...which is why I am here. Previous replies have states that non-BPD family members have acted like allies - this is not my situation (except for my husband). So I am often feeling alone trying to navigate this world. Work in progress.

Cheers to husband as well! You have a small support system in place. How can we best help you find resolution to your questions about your aunt? Would it help to talk about specific boundaries and how to enforce them?
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   Friendship is born at that moment when one person says to another: What! You too? ~CS Lewis
Methuen
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« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2021, 12:33:26 AM »

Excerpt
her mood swings are vicious and explosive. It was so bad at one point a BPD therapist told me to cut ties w/her altogether... She likes to get me alone (in person or on the phone) and eviscerate me with mean comments, accusatory behavior, and desperate acts for attention.She likes to get me alone (in person or on the phone) and eviscerate me with mean comments, accusatory behavior, and desperate acts for attention... We have taken previous family trips with her (since everyone is too afraid to say no) only to be tortured for the trip's entirety...She is currently begging me to take a trip with her alone to Europe which is something I absolutely cannot imagine doing - I simply would not make it mentally.

I am so glad to hear you have a therapist, and that your therapist is giving you sound advice. 

It's not easy to say no to toxic people who are so skilled at manipulation that they can make you feel obligated to say yes to something they want (and you don't), and guilty if you say no.

You say you don't know how to say no to her.  That in itself indicates a controlling and toxic relationship.  JanetF, is it only your aunt you have trouble saying no to, or other people too? 

Excerpt
I am a full time health care worker that is hanging on by a thread after the pandemic with no gas left in the tank to take this on.
Firstly thank you for all your hard work and especially your personal sacrifice of putting yourself on the front line.  Your pandemic work put you in danger, and your workload and stress probably tripled or quadrupled.  Thank you.

I think you probably already feel that your priority needs to be looking after your own well-being.  Will a travel trip to Europe with your aunt improve your personal well-being?  You say you already know that you cannot imagine taking this trip with her - that you simply can't do it mentally.  Therefore it is clear that taking the trip would be wrong for you. So the tricky part is how to tell her that, since she's a rather toxic and controlling person.

Sometimes, the most stressful period is the spell before an event...when our anxiety builds.  This is a time to take special care of yourself.  What things do you do for your own self care?

There are many ways to tell her you cannot travel with her.  Your therapist can help with this. For me, I would try something like this:

S: Aunt, I know travel is exciting and you would really like to take a trip with me.
E: I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not ready to travel. 
T: I don't know when I'll be ready to travel again.  I hope you can find a suitable companion to take this trip with you.

Then quickly change the topic!

This message is short, communicates the important point, and offers an alternate solution.  DON'T explain anything, or give her any excuses (as this would be throwing her a hook and she would simply reel you in). Just stick to the simple message, and don't veer from it.  You don't owe her any explanations.  When she starts guilting you or throwing a tantrum, say "Aunt I have to go now. Bye" and disconnect. 

After that, let her throw her tantrum.  It's just a tantrum, and it will end.  Don't take on her feelings, and don't feel obligated to feel them for her (guilt, fear etc).  If she harrasses you, ignore.  Don't reply, or you will be reinforcing and rewarding her bad behavior.  If she is able to have conversations about other topics, you can reward her by telling her you enjoyed the visit if that feels right.  But if she goes back to the travel demand, repeat the same SET message, and then say you have to go now.

If your neighbour behaved like your Aunt does, what would you think of your neighbour?  Would you go on a trip with that person?

You can do this JanetF.  You can say no.  We're here to support you.
 
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Notwendy
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« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2021, 07:55:12 AM »

No way would I travel alone with that woman, not anywhere.

You will be her servant the whole time, literally, while she verbally abuses you.

My BPD mother does the same thing. I would question your aunt's "she loves you dearly" as this kind of treatment isn't love.

The rich part mainly means she has more ability to use her money to manipulate people than someone who doesn't have as much money. I think this is significant as it gives her more power- and this serves to enable her behavior because more people will comply with her due to her money. My mother gives people lavish gifts to endear them to her- and they have strings attached.

You're not getting an expense paid trip to Europe. You're being bought to serve her needs.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 08:01:34 AM by Notwendy » Logged
Turkish
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« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2021, 10:05:47 PM »

You're not getting an expense paid trip to Europe. You're being bought to serve her needs.

Exactly this.

She's used this tactic because it's worked for her and it's what she knows. The winning move is not to play.

Where have your parents been in this all of these years?
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