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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Struggling with thoughts, questions  (Read 600 times)
Carguy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 325


« on: July 24, 2021, 03:22:44 PM »

So I have been doing some thinking since the other day. First off I have to say that I am struggling yesterday and today. There is that part of me that wants to talk to her or text her even though I'm almost positive she has blocked me. My better senses knows better than this. I know the things she did was messed up but then the other part of me that is missing her once again wants to apologize. The things that I want to tell her I have thought about and have realized that they are things that part of me want to say to win her back. For a minute I wanted to tell her that I am sorry and I should have let her go a long time ago to find her happiness because I know her happiness is not with me. Once I started thinking about it and what my intentions would truly be deep down I realized this was manipulative on my part. I decided against that because I don't want to be manipulative. The other part of me knows that this is a bad idea because she is toxic for me. I know the abuse will continue so that part of me says  hell no!
My emotions still struggle though cause they want me to reach out. It's hard and I hate it.

I believe the reason these feelings are being really triggered right now are because I'm pretty sure she spent the night with the other guy last night and it will likely be the whole weekend since her kids are with the other parent this weekend (her parental schedule is the same as mine). It is quite damaging to have her telling me a week or two ago how something I just recently was excited about (getting involved with a Gaelic speaking group) was causing her to fall even deeper in love with me. During the last week or two she also told me I'm the love of her life, she wants to marry me, she always will love me and don't ever believe she doesn't, and she never wants to lose me. To go from that to her hanging out with the other guy and going into a rage when I got angry about it (I'm betting they are a couple now) is quite damaging.

Some things I have been thinking about that I would like opinions on. All of our problems lately have focused around my seventeen-year-old son. They used to have a good relationship but it has deteriorated the last while. My son felt abandoned by her when she left me a while back and he is angry at her attitude toward his mother. She is upset and blames me. His mother (my ex wife, divorced since 2005) and I are still good friends and I used to vent to her about things. She was a good listener and would give me advice. I realized I was seeking validation that it wasn't all my fault as my ex BPD would tell me. I needed someone to tell me I watch justified in being upset. When my ex asked I admitted that I had vented to my ex-wife. She knows we are good friend. She was upset about it and I came to realize that talking to my ex wife about it was not a good idea and very upsetting for my ex BPD so I stopped.. Since then she blames me for any bad relationship between her and my ex-wife or her and my son. My ex-wife even recently reached out to her trying to improve their relationship and she just ignored her. She blows up the relationships and wants to believe it's because of all the things I said in the past to my ex-wife and that my ex-wife is poisoning my son's relationship with her.

The latest incident that caused us to break up. My son wanted me to meet his new girlfriend. This is the first girlfriend he's had. I was under the impression he wanted me to meet her in town after work before I went home. After that I forgot about it. When I got home on Friday I walked in the house and he was there with his girlfriend and introduced me. We chatted for a few minutes and then they went out in the backyard. When my ex BPD got there she was upset that this girl was there and no one told her. It caused her a lot of anxiety and she went in the bedroom and didn't come out. I could tell she was upset so I went in and talked to her. While I was in there my son came back in and he told me he was taking her home. I told him to drive safe and I'll see him in a little bit. She was then upset believing that he wanted me to meet the girlfriend but not her. I tried to tell her that I thought she didn't want to meet her and I'm sure he felt the same way. That just angered her more. A few days later when talking about it she told me that he came in the bedroom and looked at her and then said he was taking his girlfriend home and wanted me to meet her before he did. I told her that's not what happened. I'd met his girlfriend before she got there. She got furious telling me I was trying to protect my son and then she wanted to go home. She told me she wasn't abandoning me and then she left. I didn't talk to her after that and then I seen her with the other guy 5 days later.

My question here is was she trying to Gaslight me or because emotions equal fact does she believe that's really what happened?

Another question that has been in my mind for a while. I have heard therapist say and I've read many things that says BPD is based in trauma and that you can usually find that they were sexually abused. Even my counselor said that. She never mentioned any sexual abuse to me. Recently we were talking and she told me she started masturbating around Age 5. She said she doesn't remember how she got started and as if she was thinking for a second she said she doesn't believe she was sexually abused. She believed maybe she touched there or something and it felt good so she started doing that. After that during sex she started wanting me to role play and it started feeling odd and wrong. She wanted me to pretend I was a person in power such as a priest or something and she was an innocent young girl that I was teaching sexual things to. Things like that. I wasn't really comfortable with that . That really made me question even more. Like on a subconscious level she was reenacting something that happened to her when she was five? What do you guys think?

The other thing that has been on my mind. I got upset about her hanging out with this guy but I am friends with my ex-wife. I feel like a hypocrite. There are differences. When we are together I don't hang out or talk with my ex-wife. My ex-wife and I have been divorced since 2005 and have no interest in a relationship. We are just friends. My ex-wife has never expressed an interest in being more. We also share kids. This guy that she's hanging out with she broke up with me in December and was hanging out with him a week later. Eventually they were a couple, having sex, and she yelled out for him to marry her during sex. This later cause problems between them but that's another story. After her and I got back together in late March he was still hanging around her. He told me that he was going to stay friends with her and was just waiting for us to break up again so he could be with her. He said that he hoped we broke up. He admitted this to her as well. After that he was texting her and going to her work telling her how he loved her and wanted to be with her and wanted us broken up and was waiting for her. He is an obvious threat to our relationship. Still I'm feeling like a hypocrite. What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: July 24, 2021, 03:29:30 PM by Carguy » Logged
khibomsis
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: Grieving
Posts: 784


« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2021, 05:42:01 AM »

Dear Carguy, your ex wife is not trying to break you two up. In fact, it looks like she and your son are trying to support you. Your ex pwBPD's boyfriend was trying to break you up and is happily exploiting your conflict. You will never build a successful relationship while negatively triangulated. So you did the right thing. 
The more so since it is starting to affect your son's life.

When she said she wanted to get married what did you say? Because listening through the dysregulations it seems she is quite clear about what she wants.  Were you?
My advice is for you to reread your old posts from the beginning. You will see that you are stuck in a cycle. You have to change your behaviour in order to break free. Or else we will be back here in a few months.
  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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grumpydonut
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Relationship status: Broken up
Posts: 473



« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2021, 08:31:57 PM »

Excerpt
For a minute I wanted to tell her that I am sorry and I should have let her go a long time ago to find her happiness because I know her happiness is not with me.

Before you do, think about what this reveals to you about what you think about yourself, your self worth, and what writing this will do to your self esteem. You are the one who has been abused, yet you are the one apologising? That will deeply affect you later, and you will regret giving that power to her as you have basically said "I deserve your abuse. I am the bad one" despite knowing deep down that truth is the exact opposite.

Excerpt
She was upset about it and I came to realize that talking to my ex wife about it was not a good idea and very upsetting for my ex BPD so I stopped.

I'd contest this. If your ex wife is a friend and an avenue for emotional support, it's not surprising that you're exwBPD would seek to shame you. Ex wife = chance for you to find out that your exwBPD's behaviour is abusive. Thus, your ex wife is a huge threat to your exwBPD's control over you.

Excerpt
she blames me for any bad relationship between her and my ex-wife or her and my son

She blames you for "ruining" others' perception of her, simply because you are telling others how she is treating you (in an abusive way). Rather than change her behaviour, she wants to stop you from telling people the truth. Red flag.

Excerpt
She was then upset believing that he wanted me to meet the girlfriend but not her. I tried to tell her that I thought she didn't want to meet her and I'm sure he felt the same way. That just angered her more. A few days later when talking about it she told me that he came in the bedroom and looked at her and then said he was taking his girlfriend home and wanted me to meet her before he did. I told her that's not what happened. I'd met his girlfriend before she got there. She got furious telling me I was trying to protect my son and then she wanted to go home. She told me she wasn't abandoning me and then she left. I didn't talk to her after that and then I seen her with the other guy 5 days later.

Disgusting and deeply narcissistic behaviour. Your son bringing his first girlfriend over should be a joyous occasion, and how dare she steal that from him by causing him any sort of shame. This one is truly hurtful to read. These are moments your son will never get back. How dare she.

Excerpt
Like on a subconscious level she was reenacting something that happened to her when she was five? What do you guys think?

BPD is created by far more than sexual abuse. It is also highly correlated with emotional neglect. You being in control of her may express to her that she is loved, and you are protecting her and, thus, won't leave her. You are also playing the male authority figure (perhaps her Dad wasn't there for her). If she has told you she wasn't sexually abused, she almost certainly wasn't.

Excerpt
My ex-wife and I have been divorced since 2005 and have no interest in a relationship. We are just friends.

She is emotional support. I am writing all these as I write, btw, so there shouldn't be too much hindsight bias, haha. But this paragraph harkens back to what I wrote above about her wanting to remove support systems from you because they are capable of revealing her abuse to you.

It wouldn't matter if your support system was your ex wife, best friend, or loyal canine companion. If it is capable of revealing her nature to you, or of redirecting your attention from her, it'll be attacked and you'll be shamed for it. BPD is a deeply narcissitic condition, it just arises from a slightly different place than NPD. At the core of the disorder is a child who didn't receive the love and attention they needed and deserved. Thus they are always searching for that ideal attachment that erases that pain. It never works.

If you want to learn more about that, I highly recommend you watch videos from John Gunderson. The bloke was a professor of psychiatry at Harvard and is known as one of the pioneers of BPD research. He knows what he was talking about.

Excerpt
Eventually they were a couple, having sex, and she yelled out for him to marry her during sex.

There you go. You are being manipulated. You are expected to make sacrifices that she herself would never make. It's narcissistic and it works on people who are highly sensitive to shame and always think they are at fault (which I perceive you may apply to you).

Excerpt
Still I'm feeling like a hypocrite. What do you guys think?

No, you are not a hypocrite. Do you want to have sex with your ex wife? Do you use her as a back up, or as a tool to hurt your exwBPD partner? Then what you are doing is not at all the same as what your exwBPD is doing.

All interesting questions, Carguy. Sorry for tough love, I am very to the point in everything I do and people sometimes interpret it as judgemental (it's certainly not coming from that place).

All in all, this sounds like you are allowing and excusing abuse, perhaps because you don't truly believe you deserve any better. Your self esteem sounds like it is extremely low, and you really believe SHE deserves better and that you CANNOT make anyone truly happy as you aren't enough (all lies built on a faulty self narrative, btw). I also perceive, perhaps wrongly, that you believe you currently don't deserve love, but are pining for this woman to return to you in order to prove your self worth and to re-establish you are good.

Non of that is meant to be condemning or judgemental. If it's true, it's extremely common among those who have been abused. These false self narratives are why many of us stay for as long as we do, while others escape straight away!

What do you think?

« Last Edit: July 25, 2021, 08:47:33 PM by grumpydonut » Logged
Carguy
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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 325


« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2021, 08:32:00 PM »

Khibomsis,

Thank you! You have a good point about the differences.

As far as marriage, we have talked about it off and on for the last few years. A while back when we were together we were actually engaged but my plan was to give it a year and see if things were getting better or not. We are both in individual counseling and we talked about doing couples counseling too. I was skeptical though. This is exactly why. When she said she wanted to marry me this last time I just said sweetly "You do?" and she said yes. I think I gave her a hug and nothing more was said.

I didn't want to say yes or Jump Right In because of our past. Like I said, I wanted to give it at least a year before we did anything like that.

Looking at it now I feel that she does care about me to a point but as far as this other guy she doesn't really care about how it hurts me or affects me or the relationship. I feel it was very hurtful and disrespectful. Right now I am trying to keep that in mind to prevent me from going back.

Grumpydonut,

Thank you for the insight! You actually pointed out a few things that I didn't think about or realize. For instance apologizing to her. You are very right on that! She did the hurting to me. One thing that popped up in my mind later was when I talk to her later that night and she was yelling at me I told her I was coming over to talk to her until I seen them together at the tennis court on my way over. She told me she knew I was coming over to talk to her because that's our cycle. Afterwards I thought about this. She knew I was likely coming over so she chose to have him around? Part of me wonders if she was looking for reaction or something. The other thing was when she was telling me I had no right and that she can hang out with friends if she wants. I told her that she could but I don't like her hanging out with him after what he said and did. She cut me off yelling at me that it didn't matter. It does to me and by telling me that shows me she really doesn't care about my feelings in this matter.

With my ex-wife you make a very good point there. In fact it was this way with anybody else I talk to as well. She was mostly focused on my son and my ex-wife though. And yes, she didn't really change. Instead she was angry at me for telling people and making her look bad. The things I told them were things that she was doing and actual truth.

It is narcissistic behavior and I felt bad for my son. I think he actually felt kind of awkward once she got there and went into the bedroom. He told his girlfriend on the way here that he didn't know if she would get to meet my ex BPD because he wasn't sure if she was there. So to me that tells me he was going to introduce them until that. I'm pretty sure it was upsetting for him.

As far as BPD and sexual abuse, you have a good point here too. I never really thought about it like that but she did like me being in control as far as that goes. For her it was very exciting. To be honest I actually struggled with it. I just had to wonder because I've heard it can stem from that and when she said that it seems like a really early age to start doing that and when she said she didn't think she was sexually abused she said it like she wasn't sure. I will admit though that it seems like her father may have some disorders as well. I never met her mother. She passed away almost 15 years ago but from what my ex tells me, her mother expected my ex to take care of her and my ex was the only daughter still talking to her. It sounds like the mother had some issues as well from what she has told me.

I will have to look up his videos! Thank you!

I was surprised she yelled that out to him but she has told me in the past that she wanted to yell that out to me too during sex. It's quite confusing. It does apply to me actually. Things that I am still working on.

As far as my ex-wife, those are good points. I never use my ex-wife to hurt my ex BPD and I am not interested in anything more than friendship with my ex-wife.

Don't be sorry about tough love. These are things that I need to hear. I really do appreciate the Insight. It really does help me to see things I may not see like someone on the outside. It actually helps me Center myself better.

To be honest I have been allowing and excusing abuse. I have justified it to those close to me trying to protect her. As far as the self-esteem, my self-esteem is a little low. My therapist doesn't seem to think it's really bad but I did buy the self esteem workbook. I do feel, however, that I deserve better. I don't feel like I deserve to be treated the way she has been treating me. It angers me. And as far as her and this other guy, I know I am seeing this through my anger, but I hope it goes horribly wrong for them. I do believe that I cannot make her fully happy. I do make her somewhat happy but her disorder won't allow her to be fully happy from what I see.

From what I have learned and what I think, part of me wants her back so I'm not lonely but i think the inner child part of me, because of my childhood wounds of a mother that abandoned me, wants her to love me to prove my mother wrong. And to be honest there are a lot of things with her that do remind me of my mother. My therapist actually asked me if things about her reminded me of my mother.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2021, 08:37:23 PM by Carguy » Logged
khibomsis
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What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: Grieving
Posts: 784


« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 03:07:12 AM »

Carguy, she wants to get married.She wants the delicious hot tub and the fine man that you are. She is jealous of your son and your ex wife because their place in your life is secure.  And she acts out.
You dont want to get married just yet. For entirely rational reasons. Can you see how invalidating your response was for her?
It happens time and again on these boards. PwBPD promises to go into treatment but when it comes right down to it is afraid to do the work. The only person that stands between her and the good life is herself.
It must hurt like hell. I am so sorry! You are collateral damage. But all you can change is you. 
 Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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Carguy
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Who in your life has "personality" issues: Ex-romantic partner
Posts: 325


« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2021, 08:13:38 AM »

Thanks Khibomsis. That does make sense. When I hugged her she hugged me back tightly so I figured it was okay but maybe it was invalidating to her. It does suck. And that's all I can do, work on myself.

So I talk to my therapist the other day about all of this and he pointed out some things that I was doing as well. Some things that I didn't realize that will help me improve myself on any future relationships.

Her and I did end up talking the other day and I apologize for some of the things that I did. We talked and she told me that she felt like I would go ballistic (as she put it) anytime she wanted to hang out with friends. Especially if they were guys. She said she had made plans with this guy even while we were together and then was going to tell me but then we broke up and she decided to keep her plans with him anyways. I didn't say much to all of this. I wanted to go into the fact that she has hung out with her friends before and I was fine with it. I want to point out that it's him I have the problem with. The recent history, the things he said, the things he did. I decided it wasn't worth mentioning because she'll just get upset and defend it and I know where I stand. This is one of the reasons I Won't Go Back. I'm not going to get in between them and their relationship and I'm not going to put myself back in a situation like that. It triggers me, upsets me, and makes my anxiety go way up. It's not worth it. To me she chose him over me and a relationship with him over a relationship with me. And that's fine.
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khibomsis
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Gay, lesb
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Parent
Relationship status: Grieving
Posts: 784


« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2021, 05:20:48 PM »

That's the spirit Carguy!  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)
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