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VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?" Parental alienation is when a parent allows a child to participate or hear them degrade the other parent. This is not uncommon in divorces and the children often adjust. In severe cases, however, it can be devastating to the child. This video provides a helpful overview.
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B1987
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« on: July 26, 2021, 03:37:58 PM »

A question regarding their new relationship - is the likelihood that the relationship will inevitably start to fall apart and turn toxic at some point, like mine did?

The reason I ask is because I’m really struggling with the fact that my ex dumped me so abruptly after 4 years and moved on so quickly.

When I was with her there were lots of red flags and conflict/drama EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Surely these things continue with someone else who now has to navigate through the turmoil to get to those oh so special good times? It can’t just have been unique to our relationship, right?

It’s not that I want my ex to be unhappy, I genuinely don’t. But right now I’m struggling with the worst emotional and psychological pain I’ve ever experienced so I would like to take a bit of comfort in the fact that my ex doesn’t suddenly have it all worked out now that I’m discarded.

I realise I’m probably seeking validation in the wrong way but the thought of her having a wonderful time right after what she did to me is constantly haunting my thoughts and stopping me from moving forward. I’d also like to think I am not the crazy one and that the drama, conflict, mood swings, impulsivity etc were a real part of her, a part that sooner or later will always creep into her relationships.

Does anyone have any experience or insights into bpd’s repeating the same cycle/behaviours in relationships?
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Sappho11
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« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2021, 04:05:24 PM »

Bad news: She might really be having a wonderful time right now.

Good news: That's nigh impossible to last.

My first experience with a pwBPD was my high school best friend. When we'd have an argument, she'd go off and find herself a new BFF. It was easy enough for her to do because she was smart, athletic and rather popular. She'd parade the new BFF around school, then discard them again when the first inevitable disagreement would happen. And it always did happen. – She's now an adult and quite alone.

My second experience with a pwBPD was my last relationship. When we got together, he told me he'd never been in love with his ex, that she had felt "wrong" from the start, and that I was the true love of his life. That didn't stop him from idealising her as I got depleted by his antics more and more. It turned out he had controlled his ex's entire life and was now trying to control every aspect of mine. He went back and forth between her and me, and now seems to be alone as well. Guess his ex eventually tired of being his doormat, too Laugh out loud (click to insert in post) I wouldn't be surprised, however, if he latches on to the next victim sooner rather than later.

What I'm trying to say is: If it's a personality disorder, it's an ingrained pattern that doesn't just go away on its own, let alone immediately. Don't believe lovey-dovey tales and/or pictures on social media. It's all an act that will crash and burn sooner rather than later. They might hit the BPD jackpot like my uBPDex and find someone like his ex, someone that will let themselves be controlled completely. Rest assured that both parties will still be miserable in such an arrangement.

The only way your ex can be truly happy is if she faces her destructive patterns and regularly attends therapy. Expect minor improvements in the space of 5-10 years and major improvements after ten years or so.

Before that, happiness? Not a chance in hell.
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Sappho11
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« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2021, 04:11:16 PM »

I should add: The disorder's inherent lack of empathy makes a real relationship, i. e. one with an actual connection between two human beings, completely impossible. New guy will catch on to this eventually, perhaps just unconsciously, but still. And she'll spiral out of control as soon as she notices him catching on, because then all the same fears of abandonment and other core wounds will get triggered.

Console yourself: It was never about you. I've asked this in the other thread as well and I'm beginning to think this might be a key question, but: Did she ever say or do anything that indicated she saw you, you and your personality? Or was everything she said, even compliments during the idealisation phase, just statements on how you made her feel? ...
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HopelessBroken
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« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2021, 04:20:22 PM »

B1987, I understand this completely. In fact, I would bet everyone on this board understands your question completely.

I was convinced that the relationship drama we had was because of me. In fact he would tell me that I “only act this way because of how you behave.”  So, it’s me right?

We were together for 3.5 years and I was discarded 9 times. During one conversation he told me that his ex before me and him, were mutually blocked on their phones. I didn’t know you could block someone on your phone nor had I even thought to do that to anyone. He said that the blocking came after they had gotten together and broken up so many times. I said naively “why would you do that?”

Fast forward to the 8th time I was dumped, he ran right to a new relationship who he met online. They moved in together after two weeks, were each other’s “twin flames” etc etc etc.

He ended up escalating to physical violence with her and that ended.

So, as a perspective of what I know, the unstable relationships were happening before me and they happened after.

I know you want to look within and take responsibility for the part you played but I need you to know it wasn’t you. This dynamic WILL  happen with the next person and the next person and the next person.  You have the ability to have a solid, stable relationship. They never will.
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I’m not hopeless or broken anymore, instead I’m pretty hopeful and pieced back together with some really strong glue.
MeandThee29
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« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2021, 05:21:46 PM »

A question regarding their new relationship - is the likelihood that the relationship will inevitably start to fall apart and turn toxic at some point, like mine did?

It's very high unless they truly change, which is rare and takes a long time.

Mine was a gray divorce after a marriage of several decades. We had a mutual therapist who had a front-row seat to how things fell apart over more than a decade. She began treating him for PTSD and ended up giving me the NPD/BPD diagnoses after he left the second time without ever having told him that. She was trying to move him in a direction where she could tell him, and he quit. As far as I know, he never got any additional professional help.

She has an uncanny ability to predict things and predicted his suicide attempt shortly after the first time. The college kids and I were in her office. I had turned off my phone and got his "final goodbye" message when I turned it back on. She gave me her personal cell phone that day, and I called her on the way to the hospital when I learned where he had gone and tracked down which hospital they took him to. He survived, and we reconciled, but it didn't last long at all. Just as she predicted, he took off again a second time.

The therapist predicted that he wouldn't wait long and that the new love would be a lot like me with kids about the age of our kids. She told me to count that a blessing as he would be occupied with trying to remake himself with her, but that when that failed, he would be back at it with me again, either trying to reconcile or being really ugly. Indeed there were long periods when I didn't hear from him at all, and then he'd go full bore at me again. Love-hate-love-hate. She also told me to never, ever talk to any of his love interests if they called. She said to tell them something about not wanting to get involved. LOL.

His poor divorce attorney had fits with him and weighed calling the police multiples times where my ex lives to do a welfare check because his client was so unstable. He begged my ex to get professional help because he was literally falling apart mentally in his attorney's estimation. Then he told all that and more to mine which they really aren't supposed to do, but it explained why negotiations went so badly. Despite all that, I got a good settlement without going to court because of how the two attorneys worked together.

By the time I closed my file with my attorney, I truly no longer cared. Just too much bridge-burning went on. Maybe my ex is with someone, and maybe not. It really doesn't matter anymore to me. He's very smooth and likes to spend money on people, so I'm sure that might be attractive if they don't know or grasp the history.
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B1987
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« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2021, 03:22:58 AM »

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I don't think my ex recognises her issues and I doubt she'll ever get the support she needs. In 4 years, we had one conversation where she admitted she thinks she has BPD, the next morning however, she completely dismissed the idea. She never takes responsibility for things so I cannot see her ever addressing her issues.

I just really wonder how her new relationship(s) are going. I was willing to let a lot of things slide because I genuinely loved her and was hooked on the good times. One thing my relationship did teach me was do develop very strong levels of patience, understanding and stoicism. She would create intense drama, criticise me and give subtle digs about who I was as a person and I was just able to let these negative aspects wash over me. I'm nothing special but I think a lot of people would easily lose their temper or get into arguments about it (understandably so).

I have been completely NC for 5 weeks and am not on social media so don't see anything she is doing. I know this is best for healing but it also makes my mind wander to places I don't want to go.
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red leaf

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« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2021, 03:56:19 AM »

I realise I’m probably seeking validation in the wrong way but the thought of her having a wonderful time right after what she did to me is constantly haunting my thoughts and stopping me from moving forward. I’d also like to think I am not the crazy one and that the drama, conflict, mood swings, impulsivity etc were a real part of her, a part that sooner or later will always creep into her relationships.

Hi B. I am sorry to hear that you're going through this...but as other members pointed out, many of us experienced the same.

I find myself asking the same questions, although NC is helping significantly. Although you know how 'wrong' it is to think about your expwBPD's new relationship, you just can't help it. In a way, you end up feeling like you are the 'crazy one', and that the way your partner is coping with the break up is actually healthier than yours.

Now...that's what I am trying to do. Whenever these questions come to my mind, I focus really hard on two thoughts: 1) I am taking time and giving myself time to grieve. This is something that my ex-partner is probably unable or unwilling to do, due to his mental illness. It is pointless to compare the two situations, and strive to find any trace of guilt or remorse: this is his coping mechanism. 2) I try very hard to remember what he has done in the past and understand patterns. He and I started a relationship within weeks after he broke up with his ex-girlfriend. We were together for almost 6 years...but went through break-up and make-up cycles multiple times. Each time he had someone else ready to replace me. And each time he came back, I was the one allowing him to break boundaries, make amends, start the relationship over.

What I am trying to say is that many people affected by BPD cannot handle being alone. This might be the case with your girlfriend, too. I am not saying that she is not happy. She probably is, but that is not what I would focus on. Perhaps at the moment, you need to feel 'bad'. This is what your body and soul are asking you, and you cannot force it. I guess we can choose to keep comparing ourselves to our ex-partners or be aware of the fact that this sorrow is the natural reaction to a great loss...

Did your expwBPD follow any patterns, or did this new relationship come as a surprise?

Stay strong, B. You are not alone in this, and we'll get through it. 
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B1987
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2021, 04:36:30 AM »

Thank you, red leaf!

I am taking reassurance in the fact that my reactions are probably more natural and that I'm doing everything I can to improve myself. I couldn't even think of being with anyone else right now which again, seems to me to be a healthier outlook rather than jumping straight into another relationship.

We followed similar break up / make up patterns but they only lasted about a week and she would reach out to me again. As of now though, I doubt I'll ever hear from her again which is extremely painful.

The fact that she can happily move on with someone else just makes me feel sick. I am missing her, hoping she's ok and preserving all the good memories I have of her. It just seems so one sided and unfair!

You make a good point about me feeling like the crazy one as I'm stuck with the hurt whilst she moves on.

Thanks for the reply and I'm sorry to hear what you went through.
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Rev
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« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2021, 08:55:24 AM »

Lot's of great responses.  My guess is that ALL her relationships have a shelf life. Mine was four years. I know others where the shelf life is less.  Others still where the shelf life is really long, but that they are better at choosing people who can cope with their ups and downs.

One thing is for sure, she may be having a good time, but inside she knows that one day it will end. And, no, she is not happy even if she is enjoying herself.   Hey everybody who goes to Vegas can feel rich, even if only for a few days, right?

Rev.
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B1987
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« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2021, 09:04:29 AM »

Thanks, Rev.

I always got the sense that she could never truly experience real happiness. We had wonderfully close experiences which felt so heartfelt at the time but I always got the sense that (to her) they were fleeting moments. None of the beautiful times we had together seemed to have any bearing on her going forward. She'd jump straight back into drama and a lot of the nice things we did together did not do much to define our relationship.

Another thing I noticed was that if I was happy or had anything good going on, she didn't seem to like it and would often resort to focusing on something negative or complaining about the many ailments she had. It's almost like she didn't know what to do with fun and happy times.

I guess I have to remind myself that although she may be on cloud 9 right now, there's a dark and dysfunctional side of her which I'm sure just can't go away.
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Cromwell
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« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2021, 02:14:01 PM »

I was a bit fearful that her relaitonship might be sun filled, persist and what sort of aspersions that this comparitive success story might reflect on me.

Its easy to solve. This is fear-rooted, to get over it, I just imagine the worst of my fears is already the reality. I imagine her having the time of her life until the end of her days, with another - all I resembled was not forgotten, but the words she used "I damaged her mental health" at times I was scum.. with this in mind, I represented the conduit of hardship she had to face until she became united with the real, true, better than the best (isnt always as such) "the one". and mentally tattered ol' me becomes an Eleanor Rigby type.

I imagined it as real, contemplated it a bit as real, then shrugged my shoulders. Well thats that, theres nothing I can do about it, accept the fate.

nothing at least to worry about anymore right? Its a fear. Accept it and move through it and it loses its power.
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« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2021, 07:42:45 PM »

The reason I ask is because I’m really struggling with the fact that my ex dumped me so abruptly after 4 years and moved on so quickly.

When I was with her there were lots of red flags and conflict/drama EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Surely these things continue with someone else who now has to navigate through the turmoil to get to those oh so special good times? It can’t just have been unique to our relationship, right?

i get that, completely. i wondered, and felt the same thing. my relationship was a year shorter.

for what its worth, the relationship my ex jumped into immediately after breaking up with me, lasted longer than ours did. i was privy to details that didnt sound, specifically, like they were crashing and burning, but that it was all a big mess i didnt want a part of. still, i know relatively little.

so i wont tell you to focus on you, or not to pin your own outcome to hers. i also wont tell you the relationship will crash and burn. if it helps though, i will tell you that your fears, at some point, will no longer matter to you. i dont direct much energy toward my ex, positive or negative, our breakup is ancient history, but i went from obsessively wondering when and if they would break up, whether she was happy, whether i was erased, whether it was all me, to hoping that she, like me, like most of us, learn lessons from relationships and do a little better each time.

their relationship will be different. thats about all you can know. worse, better? maybe both. probably, mostly, just different.

we all keep some things about us that we present, from relationship to relationship, some good, some bad. we all strive for some things we liked about a former partner or a former relationship. but a relationship is a series of interactions between two people, and each can look very different.

are there things about her that you know her well enough to say are a pretty entrenched part of her personality? those things probably arent going away. for example, my ex was a highly jealous person, she could go into these incredibly condescending modes, she could be smothering, and she had what i considered some character flaws. another person might respond to those things differently (worse or better than i did) or feel differently about them. but those things didnt start with me, or end with me, and it helped me to focus on the fact that those things exhausted me, and i didnt miss them.

Excerpt
I would like to take a bit of comfort in the fact that my ex doesn’t suddenly have it all worked out now that I’m discarded.

i will tell you, however, that this is the wound that needs attention, and it wont go away if your exs new relationship ends tomorrow.

there is something especially brutal about being in a long term relationship, and that person immediately jumping into a new relationship. its as if to say "you werent special". it especially hurts, when, i suspect, there was a lot about this relationship that made you feel pretty special.

that feeling is hard to let go of. the message an overlapping relationship seems to send doesnt help. and it makes you feel even lower in your own grief, as if theres something wrong with mourning the end of your relationship.

overlapping relationships is a coping mechanism. its just something that some people do, and some more than others. its never been for me, although i have certainly sought out validation after a breakup, but its the kind of thing thats on a spectrum, the healthiness of which depends a lot on the person and the circumstances. i, personally, am a big believer in not just honoring my grief (grief and detaching are not contests), but learning the lessons that the last relationship had to teach me. i think that its hard to do that, its hard to be a better partner in the next relationship, if i dont do both of those things.

regardless, jumping into a new relationship is not a statement of your significance. your fears and what pains you are a statement of the significance of your wound.
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