Does this letter illustrate FOG and BPD or not?

[Teabunny]

Hi all,
This is a letter from my BPD mom in 2001 when I was 16 years old. At one point in high school I had been so afraid to go home after school that a friend's mom took me to the school guidance counselor and I told the counselor what was going on at home. Counselor was required to report it to the principle who was required to tell my parents what I had said. My enabling codependent dad had to meet with the principle and I in his office. Nothing ever came of it, and things just got worse at home. I guess this is my mom's attempt at an apology 20 years ago, her response to the family secret being revealed to the school administration. This is the only letter I can remember her writing to me. Situation's worse now between my parents but I haven't lived at home since I was a teen, I am LC (low contact) with them. Things turned out good for me - now married about 15 years, happy living many states away, safe. But I'm sharing this because I have always wanted to share it with someone and see it through another pair(s) of eyes, because it's pretty confusing (both when I was a teen and now as an adult). Is this an example of FOG - Fear Obligation Guilt? I was reading Stop Walking On Eggshells and this letter, to me, illustrates some BPD traits in my mom. Do you think so or not? Some parts seem kinda OK or normal, but the flow is still illogical, and other parts seem manipulative and threatening to me. I've been all mixed up about it and want to figure things out and lay a bit of that mystery to rest once and for all. Thank you!

  for those who had BPD parents this may be triggering. It causes me to literally shake all over but I don't understand why. Until this year it lived in storage.

Page 1
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19jMNQwfanKO0YTmQCAa3KBzkKOAlzVxW/view

Page 2
https://drive.google.com/file/d/16Dz15TmaOmgfJ7Xbbz3m6OutgID7bQwS/view


Clarifications: I could have "quoted" parts of the letter, typed here, but I believe it's more truthful to show a thing in its original entire form. Names have been whited out as blanks to protect identities. The illness my mom refers to is a kidney disease I had at the time. She was always unstable, enough for me to try running away as a very young girl, although she presents her condition as a more recent phenomenon in the letter. Her offer to seek professional help for our family didn't pan out, but I remember her briefly seeing some sort of professional, at some point getting on medication, and I don't think she continued treatment. My parents didn't talk with me about it so I don't know how that all went, and I never received help or support.

I feel so grateful to anyone who cares to take a look and share their thoughts on FOG or BPD here. Thank you.

[Methuen]

Teabunny I can't imagine what it was like to receive that letter at 16.  It wasn't only your family that caused distress, but how it was handled at the school is beyond words.  I'm not sure what country you live in, but where I come from, it is the law to report abuse where there evidence points to abuse, or after a disclosure.  It is the teacher that has the duty to report, not a principal.  This duty to report starts at the preschool level, and applies all through the school years.  Reports go through an intake worker and there is a process in place to handle these situations with trained and experienced professionals, not the teacher or the principal.  The way your principal handled it was from the dark ages.  I am so sorry for your experience.  The adults let you down. That must have been awful.

I read the letter.  I noticed a few things-
- she talks about herself a lot using "I".  The whole thing seems to be about her.
- the whole letter rambles. 
- she seems to have idealized herself as a mother, leaving a pretty big gap between her experience as a mother and your experience as her daughter.
- I suspect she wrote parts of it at different times, as it struck me there was an acknowledgement of some deficiencies on her part nearer the beginning of the letter, but at one point the tone changes completely, and then she starts blaming and demeaning you.
She writes "I can't seem to look you in the eyes anymore for fear that I will finally see what you think of your only mom".  But then later she says "you know you do have a way of exaggerating things and sometimes you make things up, but you always talked that way".
- she really seemed to be explaining the virtues, and how hard she tried to be those virtues, which it appears she believes (clearly not your experience)
- is it possible she's idolizing herself as a mother?
- she acknowledges she is "hurting inside for all that life has given her" which I assume is trauma from before your time (but I'm speculating)
- she says she likes to laugh and make people laugh because that is her way of dealing with the way she feels lost inside of her.  Again, I'm going to speculate that there were some deficiencies or abuses in her early life, maybe her FOO? 
- she references her anger problem, which is an acknowledgement, but she doesn't demonstrate real awareness of its impact on you.  I don't feel empathy in her language.  Her rambling always takes her back to her favourite subject - her
- towards the end, she FOG's you by saying she trusts you in everything you tell people, and then kind of threatens you by saying that if people ever ask her, she will tell them the truth.
- the end of her letter has no point.  A lot of rambling.  No genuine contrition comes across when I read it.  She seems to be writing about herself.

Those are a few of my first take-aways.  If I read this 10 more times, I would probably see 10 more things each time.  While I don't know your story, but only know that the school and principal mishandled your disclosure and did nothing to support you, I can only say that I'm really sorry you had to go through this.

The letter would probably provide fertile ground for a psychiatrist, who knew the story.  I'm no expert, but it certainly seems way off, and about as unhelpful as it could have been for you at 16.

I think it's good you are trying to process this.  The fact that it makes you shake all over is kind of a sign that there are still things unresolved, and you are still suffering.  Lots of us here get support from therapists/counsellors who are experienced with BPD.  Is this something you've thought of?  Both the counselling, and support from this forum has been super helpful for me.   Thanks for trusting us with your story.  We are here to help and support. 

[beatricex]

hi Teabunny,
Here's my take, and thank you for sharing as this letter could have been written by my BPD mom.

1. She projects that you hate her.  She hates her.

2.  She says she's "The only person with whom you can turn to?"  Really?  She shouldn't flatter herself, this is narcisstic and simply not true.  You have a lot of resources, other people to turn to (if you think this is not true, consider you have always had access to a therapist).  Again, you're seen as just a part of her, not a separate person with thoughts, feelings and likes/dislikes of your own.  ugh

3.  "You were always stubborn."  I heard this a lot too, and guess what?  It's called persistence in the more positive way of seeing things, and this is a plus not a negative.   Why tear you down for your good qualities?  Because that is what BPD's do.

4. "I don't know where I went wrong?" [cause you are so screwed up is implied].  I've heard this one too and it's total B.S.

OK, this is just barf garbage and I haven't even gotten to page 2.  But will get to it...

Is this helping you?

b

[Teabunny]

Thank you Methuen! I'm going to finish writing a longer reply to your questions later. I so much appreciate you taking the time to read and provide your thoughts. It's nice to know I wasn't the only one thinking some of these things, but also, some new information here for me to process. Good!

Beatricex, thank you yes this is helping. 20 years late, but better I'm late than never try. Even then, and now, I could not figure out what my mom means by stubborn. Stubborn about what exactly? Because I don't know, I keep a variety of possibilities open, both positive and negative stubbornness. I had the same thought about her projecting her own self-hatred. I never told her I hated her.

[Choosinghope]

This letter is such a beautiful combination of my uBPD mom and my NPD grandmother. Wow. It's like the two of them sat down and co-wrote this. Yes, this has some classic signs of BPD and some of NPD too. The second page is full of FOG and I can see why it makes you shake years later. The situation you were in as a high schooler is unexcusable, and it makes me sad as a high school teacher. If it makes you feel any better, my mom always said that I was stubborn and hard to reach (aka hard to control) and that all she's done wrong is love me too much. Once you recognize the formula, it's so much easier to let go of the hurt, knowing that it truly isn't personal. It has nothing to do with you and never will.

[beatricex]

ugh
p. 2 is total and complete FOG, I don't even know what she's saying, it's just circular talk, trying to dance around an issue, with a lot of subsurface anger.  She's embarrassed (read angry), she's dissapointed (read angry).  p. 2 should have been edited completly to take her own advice and remove the brutal honesty.

Back to p. 1, what does she mean about physically touching you when you were sick.  I maybe read that wrong, but what jumped off the page for me was that it was difficult for her to physically touch you.  If so, my BPD mom was a terrible hugger, it felt unnatural and weird to touch her, as if she recoiled from us (kids).

  
Here's a hug for you today and your little 16 year old self too, cause you really need and needed it.

b

[pursuingJoy]

I think your description of the letter is spot on. I hear projection, wavering identity, a lot of obligation from FOG, and definitely a few comments that sounded threatening. It's unsettling.

The physical touching comment stood out to me, too, as did describing you as sensuous. Not sure that is something I'd want my mom to say. Maybe she was jealous of you?

[Methuen]

Teabunny,

This letter has been sitting with me for 24 hrs, and thoughts just keep percolating in my head.  It's disturbing.  

- On the one hand she states early on that she would understand why you hate her ("I don't blame you for thinking badly of me or hating me for what I stand for and who I am inside"), but from her rambling and disconnected thoughts, it seems clear to me anyways, that she is uncertain what love is, or how to earn it as a mother.  I wonder if she even knows what trust is? Or that is has to be earned?  Does she understand that parents earn the trust of their babies by responding to their needs promptly (crying, diaper changes, tired), and by nurturing them in a safe home as they grow up?  Clearly she wasn't wired up to provide that.  Did she grow up in a loveless home environment?  What kind of people were her parents?  It strikes me that its possible she wasn't raised in a loving environment, didn't know how to parent, and is still trying to figure some things out about love, other human virtues, and probably doesn't "get" trust.  
- she wants to be loved, but doesn't know to earn it.    
- She appears to use dictionary definitions of the virtues she lists.  Is it just me, or is this kind of a weird way to communicate to you?  
- "when I had to touch you to help you through your days".  As someone else mentioned, the touching thing is kinda weird.  If it was my son or daughter, I wouldn't care if a catheter or colostomy bag got all over me when I changed it.  I would look after it, reassure and comfort them, and hold their hand, and give gentle massages if they wanted (S26 and D24 ask me for neck massages every time they come home).  I'm not sure what kind of touching she's referring to.  But as I haven't lived her life, I don't know why touching you would warrant being written this way?  Was she abused?
- a counsellor once told me, that my mother very likely "did her best" as a parent.  Mom was a better parent than her father, for sure (her mother died when she was young).  That her best was inconsistent is certain.  Sometimes it was good, other times it wasn't great, sometimes it was downright terrible, and overall was problematic.  But it was still the best she was capable of, for whatever reasons (no role models for good parenting?).  My guess is that many of us on this board have a parent that believes they did right by their parenting.  What they believe, and what happened are two very different things.  She clearly thinks she did well.  You clearly know she didn't.
- someone else mentioned the inclusion of "sensuous".  This jumped out at me too.  Icky. So she idolizes sensuality.  Why?
- "I gave up my career to be the thing that I love the most - motherhood and you". nasty nasty FOG.  I've had lots of this from my mom in the past too.  It burns.  When I look back on it, I think she couldn't handle the stress of her work (she was a nurse), and uses being the stay-at-home parent as an excuse for her work insecurities or failures.  OR, she thought being the stay-at home mom would make her look good (optics are super important to pwBPD) because she could show everyone how devoted she was as a mother, since she sacrificed her career.  
- RE: the letter - words are cheap.  Her actions as a mother tell the real story.

But I'm sharing this because I have always wanted to share it with someone and see it through another pair(s) of eyes, because it's pretty confusing (both when I was a teen and now as an adult).

Rightly so.

Things turned out good for me - now married about 15 years, happy living many states away, safe.

Your letter has generated lots of interest and responses here Teabunny.  I hope you are ok.
 Regardless of whether it was BPD or something else, she lacked parenting skills, and that had painful consequences for you.  

[Choosinghope]

Methuen,

Your comment about the definitions caught my attention. My mom does that in her letters too. The first time I remember it was a few years ago. I had described her as acting manic (meaning just super full of energy and unable to calm down) at a family get together, and she lost it. Bear in mind, I use that word a lot to describe myself, so I really meant no insult. The next week, a letter showed up that started with the full definition of manic. Apparently one of the archaic meanings of the word is demon-possessed, which she highlighted in the definition. Then went on to say that as I am an English teacher, there's no way I would misuse a word, so I clearly was calling her demon-possessed. It devolved from there.

Another letter to me had definitions of words like selfish, selfless, loving, hating etc., and she of course used these definitions to break down my behavior and prove her point. And her point was not a positive one, if you couldn't guess. I didn't think much about her use of definitions until you brought that up, but it is a little weird. It's like she's trying to lean so much on "proof" that what she is saying is real.

[Teabunny]

Thanks for reading and your response, everyone. I appreciate it a lot.

To answer your questions and speculation:

Mom’s FOO Abuse:
Yes, according to mom, and backed up by some old newspaper articles, she had a difficult childhood abused by alcoholic parents living in poverty. She likes to tell me stories about horrible things that happened to her and things her biological father did to her bio mother. I've always felt badly for her and wished she had gotten support early on. She probably did the best she could as a mother but failed to create a safe home environment, having never experienced a safe home environment.

Identity as a Mother:
I do think her identity as a mother seems to be the most important to her, to be this perfect mother image. Curiously, she complains about her mother abusing her as a child, and idolizes her mother (“Nanny is a saint!”) wanting to stay close to her mom while also calling her mom on the phone and raging. Nanny still abuses her when mom visits. Mom also tries to control my relationship with Nanny by guilting me into contact “You should call/mail your Nanny, you’re the only grandchild that contacts her, she’s so sick and lonely etc” (Ironically, since about 9 years old I’ve been contacting Nanny at regular intervals based on the calendar, mom may try to guilt me into it without knowing that I literally just mailed her something). I can tell by talking to Nanny that I should keep my distance from her, she has problems, but our mostly mail-based contact is fine and I like it that way.

Mom’s presentation of my childhood feelings about her:
I don't think that the way mom presents my feelings about her 20 years ago was necessarily accurate or inaccurate. I was probably angry at her or still am, but the conscious feelings are and have always been fear, confusion, anxiety, and a flight response. Ran away from home as a very young child, for example, to escape the horrible fighting between my parents and from mom directed at me. "You must hate me" is I think her way to invite sympathy for her condition and reassurance that she's loved.
 
On reference to touching:
No, it wasn’t that she didn’t want to touch me or was cold – the opposite. She craved touching me. Mom could sense that I didn’t want to be near her and would often hide. She knew I didn’t like her to touch me (often because she – accidentally I think – hurt me by being too rough). I’m a very affectionate hugger type person with everyone else, but I disliked mom forcing me to kiss her on the mouth, forced hugs that mom needed, etc. She references my illness because she had to help me with walking and health care when I wasn’t in the hospital. This was when I was 16, and she didn’t allow body boundaries. For example, she’d insist on touching my genitals because kidney diseases cause swelling in lots of places and she was worried/fascinated by the effect on my genitals. I protested this, but she would invite people like my dad and her friends to come look at my crotch through my clothing. Out of medical concern. But I really disliked her touching me because it usually was physically or emotionally painful for these reasons.

On jealousy
I don’t know, maybe she was jealous, it’s not something I’d processed before. I do know she was obsessive about body image and called herself fat etc. Negative body image. She was always dieting and trying to lose weight and applying makeup to look younger, and talking about how she hated the way she looked. I think she’s a beautiful woman especially then. She would push me to wear sexualized clothing or itchy lacy things, but I prefer conservative dress (no low neck lines) and soft fabrics with functional design. For awhile at the end of high school I started wearing more revealing clothing but went back to my casual look in college. I’ve always been happy with my body except naturally when I was sick back then at “sweet 16” hair falling out from chemo, swelling etc. I just don’t feel the need to dress feminine or revealing.

Did I miss anyone's question? I think I responded to them all.

Also there are very many good possible perspectives here that are helping me think about this in new ways. I was tired of having this letter from mom and thinking, well, she seems apologetic, so maybe she did her best, but this is weird and I shake when I read it, why is that? It's good to help me work through the confusion. I think my main confusion is that mom's letter is not some rant in all caps with swear words. She compliments me several times. She seems sorry to have hurt me but blaming me for why she had to hurt me. But the tone of the thing and way she sees the world has always scared me a lot. I don't see life as a "journey to hell" the way she puts it. It's like she feels like she and I are on the same journey, but to me, life outside of her was then, and still is, beautiful, happy, loving, fun etc. Endless opportunities to enjoy, and make a difference in the world. Like even in this moment I am delighting in our home and the way trees wave in the wind.

She compliments me but also tries to tear me down by calling me stubborn, and maybe gaslight me by saying I exaggerate. But I think that may be projection. (Her "journey to hell" seems an exaggeration to me)

I would love to take this into therapy someday when I have insurance or can afford it. I did try online counseling but the subscription method wasn't working for me. I do want to try again maybe online but with a local therapist or maybe less mass-distributed therapy.

[Teabunny]

I missed the "definitions to words" "virtue explaining" points in your responses -

Well, I don't know why she suddenly inserts definitions for trust, love, etc at random points in the letter. My take on it as a teen was: she knows we don't have trust or love in our relationship and is calling me out for not trusting her, not loving her as I should. Wishing that I would. Also it makes me think she's still exploring what those words mean to her and had to take time to think about their definitions. I just thought she was being philosophical or intellectual. One common theme throughout my life has been her statements about our family being broken/wrong for not being close in the way she imagines families should be: why don't we have fun, why don't we hug, why do we keep away from each other, we should be acting like this or that other family. But of course especially as a kid and teen I really wanted a healthier family, and that was impossible because my parents built an unhappy marriage in an unsafe home and brought me into it to triangulate between them until I was blessed to go to college (Dad paid for most of it) and then move far far away etc. The definitions seem consistent with that thread of her thoughts.

[pursuingJoy]

Mom also tries to control my relationship with Nanny by guilting me into contact “You should call/mail your Nanny, you’re the only grandchild that contacts her, she’s so sick and lonely etc”

I can relate. Sigh. Oh the obligations.

I disliked mom forcing me to kiss her on the mouth, forced hugs that mom needed, etc.

she didn’t allow body boundaries.

she’d insist on touching my genitals because kidney diseases cause swelling in lots of places and she was worried/fascinated by the effect on my genitals. I protested this, but she would invite people like my dad and her friends to come look at my crotch through my clothing.

But I really disliked her touching me because it usually was physically or emotionally painful for these reasons.

She would push me to wear sexualized clothing or itchy lacy things

Have you ever considered that her behavior was sexually abusive? Unlike men who have a tendency to hide or sneak, mothers often disguise sexual abuse within their caretaking.

I think my main confusion is that mom's letter is not some rant in all caps with swear words. She compliments me several times. She seems sorry to have hurt me but blaming me for why she had to hurt me.

The most harmful lies are those that have truth woven into them. It makes the lie harder to separate. She probably did her best, and maybe was even apologetic, but there is so much evidence here to show that she was disordered in her thinking.

Our bodies are often first to manifest emotions we can't express. You're shaking because your body knows something is way off.   

[pursuingJoy]

I missed the "definitions to words" "virtue explaining" points in your responses -

Well, I don't know why she suddenly inserts definitions for trust, love, etc at random points in the letter.

That's interesting. Her definitions made it sound to me like she herself was struggling to understand what those things meant - she knew what she was supposed to think or feel, but she didn't, she had to fake it. The one that really stood out to me was the definition of "Fun." Yikes did she ever lay the obligation on thick. 'I gave up everything for you.' Not ok.

I hate that so much responsibility was placed on you, and that you felt scared. 16 year old Teabunny deserved love, safety and protection, and we'll defend you now.

[beatricex]

but to me, life outside of her was then, and still is, beautiful, happy, loving, fun etc. Endless opportunities to enjoy, and make a difference in the world. Like even in this moment I am delighting in our home and the way trees wave in the wind.

Teabunny,
That is awesome that you can see it this way and is proof of real progress in your journey.  Thank you for trusting us and helping you work through this, it's a process.  The analysis of your letter is actually helping me too.

I had a therapist (the first one I went to) that helped me find the positives in each of my childhood traumas, that, I believe, is something we must do to heal.  You take each event, this letter is just one of them, and you disect it until you see the formula and you take your power back.

b

[Methuen]

Re: the "definitions of words" and "virtue explaining" ... it makes me think she's still exploring what those words mean to her and had to take time to think about their definitions.

Yes yes. And it also struck me that maybe she is trying to work out how she sees herself as a wonderful mother into those dictionary definitions? Since she thinks it, and wrote it down, this makes it a fact...  Funny aside: it reminded me of a very badly written attempt at an essay.