Separation advice needed

[Selfishsally]

So, we are indeed separated! I feel sad but relieved and empowered that I am no longer under his control. The problem is I feel fine to call it quits and move on, but I still feel he deserves a  chance.  It's just that I have no feelings for him in that way anymore and I feel bad that he has such an uphill battle to get me back.

Background is that we have been married for 11 years and we have 2 kids. Most of it has been abusive in every way except physical, although threats have been made to me and older child which is really when I started seeking a way out. Decided I would believe in his ability to do better and that I would make myself better and more understanding/validating. I tried to make his life as stress free as possible and make him feel appreciated which for him was work in the kitchen and bedroom. That all went well for awhile and eased most of the rages and fits. Unfortunately, I lost myself more and more and was being controlled. I never recieved any love or emotional intimacy but was constantly being drained. Any emotion or less then perfect action on my part would result in a rage.So, I started seeing psych and was most likely working towards safely separating. Lots of stuff happened and had to run out the house with my kids, he chased me but luckily got away safe and were NC until at this time we agreed to be separated. Still, have a lot to figure out!

 So, last we met he said a lot of the right things and is telling me he will do whatever it takes to get me back. I appreciate his willingness, he just isnt acting like himself, he is acting like he is scared to say or do something wrong. And I definitely don't want that either. This sounds so cruel, but it was kinda pathetic...it just felt wrong and made my stomach hurt.
Has anyone ever entered a separation not wanting to get back together and they do? Am I  just wasting my time?
And is there anything I can do to get him to act normal and not like he has to walk on eggshells around me?

[ForeverDad]

So, last we met he said a lot of the right things and is telling me he will do whatever it takes to get me back... Am I  just wasting my time?

Only time will tell whether he is sincere and committed to making last improvements.  You get to decide how much more time, if any, you allow for him to prove himself.  After all, you've had many years with him and evidently during all your interactions over  all those years there hasn't much if any long term positive response, right?

However, be fully aware that there is a vast difference between words and promises versus lasting actions and real progress toward improvement and recovery.  Promises are easy to make, real lasting improvements are so very difficult.

Do not feel pressured overmuch about your feelings, obligations and second-guessing yourself.

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  She wrote that if persons do work to attain some recovery from BPD then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive or be restarted, one or both had changed that much.

[GaGrl]

Looking back over the years of marriage and cnflict, what is the longest length of time your H has sustained any positive change in behavior? That might be a starting point to decide a time period he needs to show you he can "change."

What else does he propose to do to help him with changing his behavior? DBT course? Individual therapy? I

Without a plan, he is making hollow promises.

[Selfishsally]

ForeverDad and Gagrl- thank you for your responses. I am struggling with the need to have it all figured out right now.(somewhat from pressure from him) We are both understanding that this seperation will take about 6months to a year. I feel like 8 months might have been the longest time of no rages but there still has been no peace in our home from basically the beginning. It's all just very sad to me and I have never been very good at waiting. He is in agreement to do individual counseling but, like you said I am waiting to see this action take place.
Thank you again for your support!

[MeandThee29]

We are both understanding that this separation will take about 6months to a year. I feel like 8 months might have been the longest time of no rages but there still has been no peace in our home from basically the beginning. It's all just very sad to me and I have never been very good at waiting. He is in agreement to do individual counseling but, like you said I am waiting to see this action take place.

Someone once said to me "waiting can be enabling." There is a line where waiting longer isn't going help. If the foundations of the relationship are deeply cracked, it may be that waiting is not going to accomplish anything. I don't know where your line is of course.

After years and years of cycling and recycling that got worse and worse, my now-ex left a few months before a milestone anniversary and chose to put many states between us. His last round of counselling here followed a suicide attempt and lasted all of a month. When he left, he promised to get more counselling where he ended up, but as far as I know, he never did. What followed were many attempts to get me to fix the relationship without him really addressing the core issues that had created all of the damage. His thinking went more and more afield the longer it went. Finally, I drew the line, and he initiated the divorce process six months later. I was in agreement.

He promised an easy, quick divorce. I was still struggling so much that I actually asked my attorney if any of his clients ever stopped the proceedings or remarried. I still held a sliver of hope. My attorney was gracious but said that sometimes people find out how little their spouse really thinks of them during the process, and it isn't good. He said to give it time. Well, by the end, I knew. It was long and expensive, and truly I learned how little he thought of me. He burned every bridge on the way out. Thankfully our kids were in college, so no custody issues.

I'm sorry that you are going through this. Life on the other side is good though. It just takes a long time to get there.

[Selfishsally]

Meandthee29 - Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I am so sorry to hear of the pain you have had to go through. Its good to hear how you can find peace on the other side.  I am grateful for all the good/healing I have already experienced.

He has been talking to people at church about me and they are already contacting me and trying to convince me to shorten the seperation. Trying to get me to talk to unprofessional church people instead of the professional I have been seeing. I will most likely have to meet with a certain leader and it is making me anxious a bit with the things he is already saying to me and messing with my confidence somewhat.
I know I am doing what is right for me and my kids, I just wish I didn't have to make so much trouble in the process.

[ForeverDad]

Some 17 years ago, less than two years before my marriage finally imploded, I was advised to step down from being an elder in my congregation so that I could focus on or "take care of my family" and I did that.  The discord had become that evident.

I can't recall now why but later we together met about some issue and afterward one mentioned, she needs a psychologist.  Essentially the message was that this was a mental health issue and not a spiritual issue.  That was a very balanced perspective.

In my case the conflict never truly subsided but kept increasing and I eventually called the police.  Once they were involved it, it all entered legal territory, a laundry list of false allegations started.  The marriage was failing and I decided I had to protect myself and my parenting.  I didn't want a divorce but I concluded that divorcing was the only alternative.

In your case they may be approaching it from a "we just learned about your problems, can we try to fix it?" aspect.  While they can encourage repairing the marriage, that doesn't mean it can be repaired.  It is totally up to you to decide whether any attempted resolution is realistic (and not likely to enable the spouse to keep cycling the poor behaviors).

[Selfishsally]

ForeverDad- thank you! Your wisdom is evident! I do think it would be wise to keep a positive mindset that once I talk to the leadership they will have a clearer understanding what is going on and be helpful in their encouragement. Versus going in to the meeting defensive, which is how I am starting to feel.

I have never been one to share personal things anyway, then add in the isolation and shame I have had for years...not even going to start talking about the betrayal I feel talking about anything that might put H in a negative light! It just is a daunting task that makes me nervous. But, I am feeling better about it everyday and I really do feel ok with whatever happens next.( as long as me and the kids are safe!)

[MeandThee29]

He has been talking to people at church about me and they are already contacting me and trying to convince me to shorten the seperation. Trying to get me to talk to unprofessional church people instead of the professional I have been seeing. I will most likely have to meet with a certain leader and it is making me anxious a bit with the things he is already saying to me and messing with my confidence somewhat.
I know I am doing what is right for me and my kids, I just wish I didn't have to make so much trouble in the process.

Yes, the religious aspect can be really difficult. If you haven't already heard of her, Gretchen Baskerville on YouTube has some very good materials on what she calls "a lifesaving divorce."  Also Patrick Doyle.

Like ForeverDad, our church leadership got that it was a mental health issue. They recommended giving it time, but stressed that reconciliation should be off the table unless my now-ex showed significant change and a willingness to accept accountability. Given that he had taken off, there really was no way to judge that, which was a concern. I had come to the same conclusion on my own.

Never happened, and we are divorced.

[Selfishsally]

Yes, the religious aspect can be really difficult. If you haven't already heard of her, Gretchen Baskerville on YouTube has some very good materials on what she calls "a lifesaving divorce."  Also Patrick Doyle.

I will look into that. Thank you.

Unfortunately, the church leadership issue is only getting worse. In order for them to be comfortable with the situation they have to find fault in me. They keep pressuring me about sharing my heart and my motivation with my husband and them. My motivation is for me and my children to no longer be abused. I am not sure how to be more clear on that. The leadership is enabling him and justifying his actions at this time.(IMO)
I recently had to ask a staff member to esstentially but out and let my H figure it out. All in love but it can be frustrating

[Skip]

So, last we met he said a lot of the right things and is telling me he will do whatever it takes to get me back. Am I  just wasting my time?
And is there anything I can do to get him to act normal and not like he has to walk on eggshells around me?

Therapeutic separation. Essentially hire a higher level therapist (psychologist with relavent experience - not an MFT) to over see the separation and ensure that the two of you are working on things and as you make progress, slowly come together.

We have a workshop on this on the Workshop Board.

Am I  just wasting my time?

Only if the two of you are not ready to do the work.

[Selfishsally]

Yes, skip I am seeing expierenced therapist who is helping me and guiding me through seperation.
I am still trying to get H in to see someone. He says he is going to go, we shall see.
Last I talked to him it went pretty well, we were both listening to each other and trying to understand the other. He keeps telling me I am the most important thing to him. Even apologizing for his previous deeds. But, we came to a stand still about something because he has trust issues. I guess it is because he thinks I am trying to take the kids away from him? Again, I need to keep talking about my intentions and he is blaming the trust issues on his childhood. I am sure there is some truth to that but he can not see yet that he always has a problem with questioning my intentions. I really hope he talks to someone soon and they can tackle this issue together.

[once removed]

And is there anything I can do to get him to act normal and not like he has to walk on eggshells around me?

be consistent, consistently.

anyone in a position of trying to "get someone back" is going to try to be on their best behavior, and may be a bit (or a lot) needy.

people with bpd traits especially, crave and need reassurance and will work hard to get it one way or another. they can also be hypervigilant when it comes to how your interactions with them change, whether they sense youre staying or going, in or out.

the thing is, you dont want to reassure in the sense of appeasing or "telling him what he wants to hear". and you dont want to push/pull. at the end of the day, consistency is both strong, and it can be reassuring in its own way.

[Skip]

Yes, Skip I am seeing experienced therapist who is helping me and guiding me through separation.

In a therapeutic separation, the therapist is guiding you both. Its a structured program with rules, goals, etc.

[Selfishsally]

be consistent, consistently.

anyone in a position of trying to "get someone back" is going to try to be on their best behavior, and may be a bit (or a lot) needy.

people with bpd traits especially, crave and need reassurance and will work hard to get it one way or another. they can also be hypervigilant when it comes to how your interactions with them change, whether they sense youre staying or going, in or out.

the thing is, you dont want to reassure in the sense of appeasing or "telling him what he wants to hear". and you dont want to push/pull. at the end of the day, consistency is both strong, and it can be reassuring in its own way.

Oh yes! I am in the thick of this right now! Trying to stay strong and consistent

In a therapeutic separation, the therapist is guiding you both. Its a structured program with rules, goals, etc.

Thank you skip. I understand what you are saying and where that might be some areas for improvement.