Left for the night

[Ozzie101]

I’ve been sort of MIA lately. Things have been busy and I’ve been trying to relax and sort of work through thoughts and feelings. My relationship with H has been good and he’s been mostly at baseline (some moodiness).

Until this evening.

He called on my way home and there was some sort of work crisis so he asked if I could take care of dinner and getting SS10 ready for his baseball game. Not a problem. I got home, did a few things, stayed out of his way.

Just as dinner was ready, he called my phone (he was working in his upstairs office). Slurring words. Signs I recognize. I went up to try to assess the situation and to limit what SS could hear. He went off about how he had demanded a raise, he was quitting, it would all be on me — his usual. I told him it sounded very stressful and I hated that. He started accusing me of lying about something earlier, then he gave me the double middle finger and said “&$@& you!”

I walked out. Grabbed my purse and left.

He came out as I was pulling away and tried to block my car, then faked my driving over his foot. I called 911 but hung up when he got out of the way. (They called back and I explained. They told me to call again if I need to.)

Anyway, I booked a hotel for the night and texted my boss that I need to work remote tomorrow. He called all upset — that I’m going to tell my family to make them hate me so he’s going to tell everyone he knows about me.

I just told him I love him but I can’t have one of these arguments tonight. I’ll be home tomorrow.

Feeling shaky since this is a first for me. I hate it. I know he’s hurting. I know he doesn’t have the stress management skills to properly deal with things. But I can’t manage things for him either.

I don’t know what’s going to happen. But tonight, I’m going to stay in a hotel, eat comforting fast food and watch tv.

[I Am Redeemed]

This is a big step for you, ozzie. I'm sure you're feeling all sorts of things. Hopefully, this time by yourself will give you a chance for self care and for your nervous system to regulate.

I'm assuming that the slurred speech indicated alcohol?

Is SS alone in the house with your H? How much did he witness?

If SS misses the ballgame, I imagine this will get back to his mother. It might anyway, and honestly, someone needs to know.

Have you turned your phone off? I remember that even when I set a physical boundary of distance between myself and my ex, the constant buzzing of the multiple calls to my phone was triggering and intolerable.

I'm sorry you have found yourself dealing with this today

[ForeverDad]

I remember the few times my then-spouse was away.  The silence was so loud - and golden.  What a relief!  But also how stressful.

You set a Boundary.  Good for you.  Tomorrow you'll get an idea whether he learns something from this (until the next time) or tries an extinction burst.

[Woolspinner2000]

Ozzie101, 

It's scary to need to leave as you did, but I am so thankful you're safe. You took care to protect yourself, and I am proud of you. I know how hard that step is though. I remember going through something similar myself.

IAR's suggestion of turning your phone off is a good idea. I remebered being so triggered when my phone would go off, and being afraid to read the texts coming through. In the end I had many days when I chose to not read them in order to protect myself from the emotional/verbal abuse going on.

I hope tomorrow is better. My T once shared something with me that might be a help to you. He said it can take a few days for a person to reset emotionally and physically after a trigger like what you have gone through. It helped me to know that the strong feelings would subside, and that helped me hold on until a basic sense of normalcy would return.

Let us know how things are tomorrow.

 
Wools

[Ozzie101]

I did answer when he called about 5 minutes after I left. I told him flipping off a loved one and saying what he said was just not ok to me. He scoffed and said all couples do that. When the other person “doesn’t get it,” it’s perfectly acceptable.

He just texted to say my Facebook status has been changed to “in a new relationship.” Said a friend texted him about it and he’s about to post something. I’ve been on a FB break for over a year so either I’ve been hacked or he’s making it up to try to draw me out.

Anyway, I ran back by the house when I knew he was gone to grab a couple of things and to leave a note (just saying I love him and will see him tomorrow — my T had suggested I do that so he’d have something tangible). I’m settled in at the hotel now. I’m remaining distant for the most part. I just told him we can discuss it tomorrow. He just says there’s no need unless I can properly explain what’s happened.

Redeemed, he may well have been drinking. He’s hidden it in the house before and may have some hidden in his office but I don’t know. When he’s primed, a half-glass of wine can tip him over. He’s usually able to keep it together with SS. SS’s mom will be at the game. If there’s a noticeable problem, she’ll step in.

I don’t know how I feel. I’d rather be home with my bed and my things but I have to believe this is right. Honestly, though, I feel completely alone. I want to call my mom so bad it hurts but I know I can’t do that. Instead I’m posting and watching Perry Mason. May do a little crochet.

Thank you all for the advice and words of support. I plan to send a good night message and then turn off the ringer/vibrate.

[GaGrl]

Ok...

All couples don't flip each other off and hurl insults.

It's more than "not okay" -- it's abusive.

The great majority of people contemplating quitting a job don't blame it on their spouse.

The alcohol is a problem it doesn't appear either of you are ready to deal with.

Are you minimizing his behavior?

[Ozzie101]

I may be. Over time I think I’ve come to see things more clearly. And tonight I definitely saw, recognized and resisted manipulation tactics on his part. (That “all couples do it” was total BS.) When he started trying to turn things on me and go on about all he’s sacrificed and how little I do in comparison — again, BS.

But I’m sure I have a way to go.

I’m sure he feels a lot of stress and pressure with the job, the new house, etc. But that’s not an excuse. As an adult he ought to be able to handle it. And if he would open up to me in a healthy way, he would have my support.

Tonight he would insist he did nothing wrong and act confused as to why I left. Tomorrow he’s likely to be apologetic. But we’ll see.

On the drinking I think I feel at a loss. I know we’ve gone over it here in the past. He’s so secretive and defensive about it that any attempts on my part to talk about it go nowhere and I don’t know how to push it without trouble. On a good day, he’ll agree with me, apologize, confess. But then weeks later it’s gone again.

I have a T appointment Monday, thank goodness.

[ForeverDad]

It sounds like nothing has risen to the level of reporting incidents?  Well, until now?  A truism I often repeat is... If it's been threatened or even just contemplated, then it will happen, given enough time.  Ponder that.

Another piece of advice is that once you've called for help or made a report, you will be pressured to cancel or withdraw it.  Most likely the offender, but possibly too well-meaning but clueless friends or relatives.  I recall what the police officer told me when I made my first report (and she was thereafter charged with Threat of DV)...

When I made my police report about now-ex's Threat of DV, the officer warned me, he had seen this before, that dropping the matter would not make things better.

I've also commented that you'll get better response from officials if you follow through on your calls for help.  If you ponder the situation, you can imagine police getting a call to respond to your address and one remarking to the other, "Oh, I know that address.  No rush.  Ms Waffle always calls for help but then retracts her complaints later."  You don't want a reputation as a revolving door litigant.  If it is a serious matter, follow through on the process.

[Ozzie101]

Oh, you’re absolutely right on the “wolf crying.” This was actually the least threatening situation in which I’ve pondered calling. In this case, i hung up before they even answered. I will be very mindful of calls in the future.

As expected, I woke up to find an apology text from him. He doesn’t know what happened. He’s so sorry. He’s been doing so well and hates that he slipped. He was up all night.

That’s the usual. I don’t really buy into anything anymore. His promises a couple of months ago that he had thought through things and had a new attitude were way too familiar to me.

I just don’t know at what point I say enough. When I go home, I don’t plan to let him off the hook. This is usually when he’s most receptive and I’ve gone easy many times in the past. Therapy, zero alcohol — these need to be addressed.

[formflier]

He doesn’t know what happened. 

So..respond to this in writing.  That you don't either and therefor his medical team needs to be alerted for a quick appointment.

Directly ask them if he can get a drug to make him get sick if he drinks.

https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/addiction/features/fighting-alcoholism-with-medications#1

Here is how I see this playing out.

Each and every time he does the "I don't know what happened"...then call in the calvary...Therapists, psychiatrists...family physicians...etc etc.  "

Is he back working with a therapist?  Seems like he quit or something.

I should say I'm super impressed that you did this boundary.  Now..going forward, keep "moving the line" towards healthy.

In the future, if you call 911..stay on the phone.  If you end up actually driving away, report the incident and say "My husband has been drinking and appears out of control at home, please do a wellness check."

Again..very proud of you for doing the hard thing.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Living with someone who abuses alcohol, I’m very skeptical that it was only one drink that put him into the slurring category.

Alcoholics can be very sneaky about their liquor consumption. I’ve found empty bottles of gin and scotch in my husband’s closet.

Functional alcoholics can drink a huge amount before getting to the slurring phase, and they can appear sober even when having several drinks.

Your husband has had mysterious weight problems that don’t accord with the amount of food he eats.

And I’ve never met a man who would get drunk on half a glass of wine.

I think he’s been successful in hiding a much bigger problem from you.

That is, unless he’s taking a medication that has a severe interaction with alcohol. I just don’t see how it’s possible otherwise.

[Ozzie101]

He’s on a break from therapy but agreed to start looking again.

Good points, Cat. I really don’t know how much has been involved. He admitted again to sneaking it and it was pretty much the same discussion we’ve had before. He’s hiding it. I know. He knows I know. He wants to be able to just have a glass of wine sometimes. He’s demonstrated he can’t do that (at least not when he’s already upset — it amps him up). His P said he should not drink while on his medications. So, same territory we covered before.

At first he tried to lie or play dumb about the alcohol. I just kept staring at him (knowing there was a box of wine in our closet last night and I found an empty beer can in his desk drawer this morning while he was taking SS to school). He must have realized I knew because he caved and confessed. I told him the fact that he lied about it indicates this is a very big problem. And the fact that he hides it just proves he can’t be trusted to drink responsibly.

The conversation isn’t over.

[kells76]

Ozzie101, you have a lot on your plate. I'm wondering how your relationship with SS's mom is -- can you give her a heads up about any safety issues, so that she can take over decision making for SS when you're not there? I'm suspecting that that may increase conflict between her and you H, though I think that's their issue to figure out, not yours. Just brainstorming if there's a way to make sure someone sober has eyes on SS (or at least info about the situation, in order to make decisions) when you aren't able to be at the house.
This would also be a natural consequence of H's decisions and choices. If you are not able to be at the house, and he has made choices that for whatever reason and by whatever mechanism seem to impair his perceptions, then SS needs to be taken care of, and neither you nor he can do so. So, SS's mom will be involved, and if H doesn't want that, then he needs to make different choices.

[Cat Familiar]

Agree with kells. If he’s slurring, he’s really impaired. His decision making isn’t good, as evidenced by getting in front of your car and then pretending you’d driven over his foot.

He should not be in charge of a child when like that. That SS’s mother gets involved, that’s just consequences of your husband’s bad choices.

[formflier]

 And the fact that he hides it just proves he can’t be trusted to drink responsibly.
 

Which is why the medication route that you witness each and every day is all I can think of that you can trust.

Either he wants to conquer this thing...or not.

If he wants to...there are things he can do to earn your trust back and those same things will also help his other medical and mental health issues.

Do you think his P would disagree?

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

I don’t have a relationship with Ex at all. She and H get along well but she and I don’t communicate. We do have a good friend who has been aware of H’s issues. He’s someone i could reach out to for help if it happens with SS here. He’s very responsible (he’s a judge, actually) and is on good terms with Ex.

FF, I think his P would agree. And, yes, earning my trust back is something that needs to happen. I just need to crystallize what those things are. At the moment I feel tired and all over the place thought- and emotion-wise.

Anyway, H and I have some serious conversations we need to have.

[formflier]

Anyway, H and I have some serious conversations we need to have.

OK...conversations are important...but YOUR HUSBAND has actions he needs to take or he can admit drinking is more important.

Right now his conversations and his actions DO NOT MATCH.  (keep repeating that to yourself)

He gets to choose how to make those match...or to keep status quo.

You get to choose to continue a relationship with an unrepentant addict...or not.

(that came out more stark that I intended..but I don't believe it is inaccurate).

There is a very slight chance that one drink could cause this.  If there was a weird interaction with a drug...strange things could happen. 

So...take him at his word...go to doctor and have the run tests to figure out why it is his body does the things it does, with ONLY ONE DRINK.

Conversations..sure...action on his part..mandatory.


Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Of course. Conversation isn’t a replacement for action. He can (and has) talk until the cows come home but that doesn’t matter if there’s no improvement.

[kells76]

Also...

    

I hope you were able to relax at least a bit last night.

[formflier]

I would make sure that you do something special for yourself in the next day or two.  Perhaps a special meal or something like that.

When things were bad with FFw...I had a "rule" that if I had to expend energy on a boundary...do the hard work, that I would treat myself.

Yep...put on a few pounds but it helped my mental outlook.

Best,

FF

[ForeverDad]

If he is inclined to succumb to drinking, or at least hasn't stood up to the temptation, there's only so much you can do.  I worry that you finding some of the empty bottles will just make him find better places to hide them or to dispose of them.

[I Am Redeemed]

If he's mixed meds and alcohol, it's entirely possible he was in a blackout. If the meds are anti-anxiety meds, such as xanax, klonopin, Ativan, then alcohol magnifies the effects of the drug and the drug magnifies the effects of the alcohol.

Unfortunately, many alcoholics/addicts have to hit rock bottom before seeking help and admitting they need to stop. A hallmark of the disorder is clinging to the idea that the substance can continue to be a coping skill without causing severe life problems. A saying from AA is that no one does anything different until the pain caused by using substances outweighs the pleasure.

[Ozzie101]

Very true. He may get sneakier. And no, he doesn’t seem ready to let it go. He talks about how he wishes he could just have a drink occasionally and relax like he used to do. Yet he’ll be the guest to admit that when he’s stressed or moody, alcohol actually amps him up.

Ultimately, whether he stops or not is all up to him. All I can do is make my feelings clear, watch what’s happening, and have plans in place. That and not rescue him from consequences.

[ThanksForPlaying]

One thing alcoholics get frustrated with is that it's very hard to regain trust and "prove" sobriety to people. Time is really the only thing that can rebuild trust. However, you can do things like pills that FF suggested. It's just a physical way for him to show you that he's working on the problem. You can also buy a $40 breathalyzer that he can show you once a day if he wants to "prove" it. Of course, you'll still run into all the same BPD issues like refusing to follow the pills/breathalyzer routine because it's not "fair". But in some cases those things can speed up the trust rebuilding if used consistently.

One other thing I often mention here is that AA and other recovery programs are based on a lot of CBT concepts - very similar to BPD treatment programs. So you may get double mileage if you can find a program that seems to work.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, I think those are all good suggestions. He would rebel, of course, because he doesn’t like restrictions or “unfairness.” That doesn’t mean it can’t be tried.

He’s actually the one who brought up the idea he may be an alcoholic some time ago. But he moved from that to “I don’t have a problem” when the reality of not drinking and the issue of AA or some other program came up.

I think he uses things as an excuse. Then, when he sees work would be involved or it would require something unpleasant for him, he changes his tune.

Thing is, he’s basically painting himself into a corner and his only options are going to require wirk or unpleasantness: get therapy and stick with it, stop drinking entirely, lose me.

[formflier]

Thing is, he’s basically painting himself into a corner and his only options are going to require wirk or unpleasantness: get therapy and stick with it, stop drinking entirely, lose me.

Yep...your job is to make sure he has a steady supply of paint...and not give him any paint remover.

Because ultimately this is about the kind of relationship you are going to choose to be in.  Because he knows on some level that you can choose to walk away from alcohol and it's effects...he is likely doubting or in conflict over his ability to do this.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Some thoughts on living with a functional alcoholic…

When I first got together with my current husband, he wasn’t drinking when we’d go out to dinner. Reason being, he had a fairly recent DUI where he was pulled over at a holiday traffic checkpoint after attending a party and found to be over the limit.

At home, he’d drink quite a bit of white wine, far more than I was accustomed to seeing anyone drink. I chalked that up to stress: recent divorce, move to new area, new job.

Then he started buying gin and drinking a number of martinis before and after dinner. At first I normalized this in my mind, thinking that it was a customary pattern in his family, having met his parents.

At a certain point when his behavior had taken a turn into crazytown, I confronted him and told him how he was damaging his health as well as our relationship. Things went downhill from there.

He started behaving even more strangely when drunk, hitting himself in the head, saying “You like this. You hate me!”

It was about that time, a couple of years into our relationship, that I found this website and began participating. Up until then, I had an inkling that something was *off* and I knew he’d been the whipping boy of his narcissistic father, but I had no clue how peculiar he could behave when inebriated.

I discovered the more I pushed back on his drinking, often the worse it got, and the more he hid it from me. There were times when I expected to find him dead in his studio, because not only was he drinking to excess, he was mixing it with prescription meds. I even alerted his doctor to that fact.

The way he responded to my pleas for moderation was that he felt I was shaming him and he didn’t trust me. One time, when he was unusually candid when I asked him why he drank, he told me that drinking was his only true friend.

I backed off talking about his drinking, realizing that my appeals to his intellect were accomplishing nothing but creating animosity towards me.

Then I had my own medical issue when I had a concussion and dealt with the repercussions of that for a while.

From then on, I just ignored his alcohol consumption and for some reason, he tended to moderate it somewhat. His doctor started having him come in more regularly in order to get the prescriptions for pain and sleeping meds.

I would have a mixed drink or a glass or two of wine with him at dinner, but after a while I realized that it was triggering my allergies and I quit drinking altogether. He would continue drinking throughout the evening.

Recently he had a medical issue, related to drinking alcohol and taking ibuprofen. It scared him enough that he quit drinking entirely for a few weeks until he had a colonoscopy and endoscopy. When he got the all clear, he started up again.

It was really nice to be around him alcohol-free, but at this point, he’s not drinking nearly as much, so I’m grateful for that.

It’s unfortunate that drinking is the go-to tool he has for dealing with his feelings. Ironic for someone who prides himself on his extensive scholarship of Buddhist texts. But…whatever…

[formflier]

The critical difference between the two hubbies is remorse and promises to change and even some level of action to addresses issue.

Cat Familiar...I don't recall your hubby expressing he didn't know what happened..sorrow...he can change..etc etc.

Anyway...since Ozzie's hubby is painting himself into a "choice corner"...that's where my advice to let him do it..and even help him is appropriate.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Thank you for sharing your experience, Cat. I’m still finding my way with figuring out when and how much to push. He’s said before that I make him feel ashamed about drinking. Yesterday, he said I react whenever alcohol comes up (on TV, in a casual conversation). I was not aware that I did because internally, I have no reaction at all. I don’t drink but that’s because I’m a major lightweight and I hate the taste of it. No matter how much fruity stuff you put in, I can still taste the alcohol. But I don’t care if people choose to drink (unless driving is involved).

I think it’s some projection on his part, though. There are things I do and don’t do that I suspect feed his insecurities and sense of shame.

If he can drink responsibly and stay relatively even-keeled, I have no issue with it. But he’s demonstrated so many times he can’t. And he has, in the past, blamed the outbursts on alcohol so if he’s pointing the finger there, fine. I’ll treat that as the culprit.

[GaGrl]

Have you told him you no longer trust him?