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[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

So, after last weekend's horrible debacle I went almost 48 hours with no contact. It was hard, but I was starting to feel good. My problem is I think I can stop myself from initiating contact, but if she contacts me, I feel obligated to respond.  After 48 hours she reached out as if nothing happened. I was proud of myself last weekend that when she hit me I left and didn't continue our plans for the day. I became the bad guy once again for not continuing our plans.  Here is how today's conversation went, for your analysis pleasure. Feel free to provide honest critique. I obviously need to hear it.

Her:
   How are you doing?

Me
   I’m fine. How are you? Going to CrossFit this afternoon

Her:
   Nice! Have fun. It was an excellent workout this morning
   I’m going to Mexico for spring break!

Me
   Can you stop bothering me
   I was starting to feel okay
    thanks

Her:
   Haha
   Ok about what

Me
   Thanks.
   Anything.  

Her:
   Feel okway sviut what
   Feel ok about what
   You’re not over the breakup yet?

Me
   Look. These last 48 hours have been great. No drama no violence no manipulation

Her:
   We are officially broken up
   Just friends now
   I agree

Me
   I am starting to feel healthy

Her:
   I feel deeper in love with "M"

Me
   Great.

Her:
   Because my brain was free of drama

Me
   I don’t want to be your friend. You’re not nice
   I’ve finally accepted that
   I tried to blame it on your disorder
   All the violence
   All the drama
   All the triggering
   I supported your moving on with M but you literally asked me not to move on
   That’s not friendship
   And your attack this weekend for no reason was the last straw
   Last
   We’re not friends
   You wished I would die in a car crash
   All because I wouldn’t console you for hitting me
   Anyway. I’m glad you are with m.  Have fun
   All I ask is you leave me alone

Her:
   Okie dokie
   Sorry about that
   I’d like to be friends
   Friends fight
   I was mad you didn’t take me to CrossFit
   You’re right this is too triggering

Me:
   You still can’t take any responsibility. I shouldn’t have to explain that if you hit someone you don’t get to be mad that they want some space
   I shouldn’t have to explain that you don’t get to wish someone dies because they didn’t take care of your needs after hitting them
   If you hit someone you don’t get to demand anything
   And you’re still doing it
   If you hit someone you aren’t entitled to a ride from them minutes later

Her:
   You’re a bad person
   You’re not guilt free

Me
   Plans should change if you hit someone
   You can’t do it

Her:
   Narcissistic

Me:
   You were triggered because I mentioned a work friend
   And then you hit me

Her:
   Hey sociopath
   PLEASE READ off
   You’re not my friend

Me
   Who hits someone and then Demands comfort

Her:
   Goodbye

Me
   Agreed
   Bye

Her:
   Sociopath

Me
   You hit me and you still act as if I hurt you
   Just like when we broke up
   You hit me because I bought stock
   You still can’t own up to anything
   Have fun

Her:
   Things could have been a nice friendship but you’re too petty
   And a sociopath
   Look up sociopath
   That’s you to a t

Me
   I got beat
   And I put up with it
   How is that nice
   You have still never owned up to it

Her:
   Look up sociopath


Her:
   That’s you

Me
   Okie dokie.

Her:
   All my actions are to get even with you for your violence
   Sociopath
   Stop messaging me

Me
   Still justifying to your violence  
   That’s psychopath
   You don’t even realize hitting is wrong

Her:
   Go away sociopath
   Go away
   Go away
   Go away

Me
   Sounds good

Her:
   Sick pig
   Sick pig

Me
   Ttyl

Her:
   I can’t wait to see m in a few minutes he always makes me feel better because he’s a way better human being!
   Are you doing a 5:30 work out tomorrow
   Time away from each other is good
   Hope we can be friends
   No more sex

Me
   How do you do the things you do and say the things you do and then pretend like nothing happened
   You can’t do that to people
   I am done being your punching bag
   Ttyl

Her:
   Can  you drop off tomatoes
   Need to make dinner
   Yep well that was our relationship
   It was not healthy
   Time to do things differently
   Sorry about that
   I wanted to be mean to you to get even

Me
   You call me a sociopath then ask fir tomatoes
   Classic
   I’m at the gym

Her:
   Darn it
   You doing the 4:15
   I’ll have to go get some real quick Then


Her:
   Making steak salad
   Look we can still be friends with sociopaths

Me
   Just stop messaging me. If we see each other at CrossFit or out and about we can be cordial and friendly

Her:
   Cool
   Stop being angry
   Just be nice
   I’m not wanting to be your girlfriend
   Abs I have no feelings for you
   You’re right I’m just using you to relieve my boredom

Me
   Be nice.  Great.

[Dad50]

So, after last weekend's horrible debacle I went almost 48 hours with no contact. It was hard, but I was starting to feel good. My problem is I think I can stop myself from initiating contact, but if she contacts me, I feel obligated to respond.  After 48 hours she reached out as if nothing happened. I was proud of myself last weekend that when she hit me I left and didn't continue our plans for the day. I became the bad guy once again for not continuing our plans.  Here is how today's conversation went, for your analysis pleasure. Feel free to provide honest critique. I obviously need to hear it.

Her:
   How are you doing?

Me
   I’m fine. How are you? Going to CrossFit this afternoon

Her:
   Nice! Have fun. It was an excellent workout this morning
   I’m going to Mexico for spring break!

Me
   Can you stop bothering me
   I was starting to feel okay
    thanks

Her:
   Haha
   Ok about what

Me
   Thanks.
   Anything.  

Her:
   Feel okway sviut what
   Feel ok about what
   You’re not over the breakup yet?

Me
   Look. These last 48 hours have been great. No drama no violence no manipulation

Her:
   We are officially broken up
   Just friends now
   I agree

Me
   I am starting to feel healthy

Her:
   I feel deeper in love with "M"

Me
   Great.

Her:
   Because my brain was free of drama

Me
   I don’t want to be your friend. You’re not nice
   I’ve finally accepted that
   I tried to blame it on your disorder
   All the violence
   All the drama
   All the triggering
   I supported your moving on with M but you literally asked me not to move on
   That’s not friendship
   And your attack this weekend for no reason was the last straw
   Last
   We’re not friends
   You wished I would die in a car crash
   All because I wouldn’t console you for hitting me
   Anyway. I’m glad you are with m.  Have fun
   All I ask is you leave me alone

Her:
   Okie dokie
   Sorry about that
   I’d like to be friends
   Friends fight
   I was mad you didn’t take me to CrossFit
   You’re right this is too triggering

Me:
   You still can’t take any responsibility. I shouldn’t have to explain that if you hit someone you don’t get to be mad that they want some space
   I shouldn’t have to explain that you don’t get to wish someone dies because they didn’t take care of your needs after hitting them
   If you hit someone you don’t get to demand anything
   And you’re still doing it
   If you hit someone you aren’t entitled to a ride from them minutes later

Her:
   You’re a bad person
   You’re not guilt free

Me
   Plans should change if you hit someone
   You can’t do it

Her:
   Narcissistic

Me:
   You were triggered because I mentioned a work friend
   And then you hit me

Her:
   Hey sociopath
   PLEASE READ off
   You’re not my friend

Me
   Who hits someone and then Demands comfort

Her:
   Goodbye

Me
   Agreed
   Bye

Her:
   Sociopath

Me
   You hit me and you still act as if I hurt you
   Just like when we broke up
   You hit me because I bought stock
   You still can’t own up to anything
   Have fun

Her:
   Things could have been a nice friendship but you’re too petty
   And a sociopath
   Look up sociopath
   That’s you to a t

Me
   I got beat
   And I put up with it
   How is that nice
   You have still never owned up to it

Her:
   Look up sociopath


Her:
   That’s you

Me
   Okie dokie.

Her:
   All my actions are to get even with you for your violence
   Sociopath
   Stop messaging me

Me
   Still justifying to your violence  
   That’s psychopath
   You don’t even realize hitting is wrong

Her:
   Go away sociopath
   Go away
   Go away
   Go away

Me
   Sounds good

Her:
   Sick pig
   Sick pig

Me
   Ttyl

Her:
   I can’t wait to see m in a few minutes he always makes me feel better because he’s a way better human being!
   Are you doing a 5:30 work out tomorrow
   Time away from each other is good
   Hope we can be friends
   No more sex

Me
   How do you do the things you do and say the things you do and then pretend like nothing happened
   You can’t do that to people
   I am done being your punching bag
   Ttyl

Her:
   Can  you drop off tomatoes
   Need to make dinner
   Yep well that was our relationship
   It was not healthy
   Time to do things differently
   Sorry about that
   I wanted to be mean to you to get even

Me
   You call me a sociopath then ask fir tomatoes
   Classic
   I’m at the gym

Her:
   Darn it
   You doing the 4:15
   I’ll have to go get some real quick Then


Her:
   Making steak salad
   Look we can still be friends with sociopaths

Me
   Just stop messaging me. If we see each other at CrossFit or out and about we can be cordial and friendly

Her:
   Cool
   Stop being angry
   Just be nice
   I’m not wanting to be your girlfriend
   Abs I have no feelings for you
   You’re right I’m just using you to relieve my boredom

Me
   Be nice.  Great.

[SinisterComplex]

Stop being a source and a tool for her to play with. Choose YOU. You have to pull the plug and tell her to kick rocks. It is self preservation. Do not engage. You say are fine by avoiding first contact. Ok, well now get more acquainted with No Contact period. You do not have a responsibility to respond to her. You need to have the mentality that you could give 2 s***s what she thinks. Do you. You have your own life and your own stuff to focus on. Do not worry about what others think.

You've been abused. You have been emotionally tormented. Right now with that back and forth I see it as that you are nothing more than a toy for her to play with. Nut up and cut that damn cord ASAP!

Get yourself on the path to healing. This crap cannot continue. You opened yourself up for it and you needed to hear this. Now take it in stride, take action, and do something about your situation.

Cheers and best wishes to you!

-SC-

[Dad50]

Yep. I need to hear responses like this. It is helpful. Later on, of course, I get this response,

"Ok see you soon
Tomorrow
I’ll be nice k
I’ll be at
Your 4:30 yoga class"

I teach yoga at a local studio. Can't really block her from coming, and so often she just comes to class and makes it about her. Ugghhh

[SinisterComplex]

So easier said than done I understand here, but simple strategy...you keep any communication to nothing more than civil talk in person only at the studio. No personal contact beyond that. Period! Whenever you think its ok to let down your guard please proceed to keep this in mind...Mike Epps from How High Where is my baby powder and then proceed to slap yourself in the face (if curious search for it as a gif or a youtube video).Time for you to enforce some boundaries. No room for any nice guy shenanigans here. The hero gets zero! Do not feed into the bullshhh ;-) anymore.

You have to remember you are not dealing with a rational and logical individual. There is no reasoning to be had. Be above it and go about your business. Just remember when you do have to have interactions...be firm and indifferent. Show no emotion. You bow to no one and you answer to no one but yourself.

Cheers and all the best to you!

-SC-

[babyducks]

Her:
   How are you doing?

Me
   I’m fine. How are you? Going to CrossFit this afternoon

to me this reads as if you are fine and happy to hear from her and are willing to engage in conversation.     so serious questions:   why answer at all?    why say your fine?    why ask how she is?     and why deepen/ broaden the conversation by introducing the cross fit?

Her:
   Nice! Have fun. It was an excellent workout this morning
   I’m going to Mexico for spring break!

Me
   Can you stop bothering me
   I was starting to feel okay
    thanks

so she responds in the same tone as you ... everything is happy and light work outs ... spring breaks and suddenly you flip the switch... and with no preamble you throw a vague unclear request asking her to do something that clearly... she has no investment in.    what's wrong with 'good to hear about Mexico, I have to go now,... busy'     what's wrong with 'i'm in the middle of something... I got to go?'     why do you need her to do something that you should be in charge of?

Me
   Look. These last 48 hours have been great. No drama no violence no manipulation

Her:
   We are officially broken up
   Just friends now
   I agree

You've heard of JADE right?   Justify Argue Defend and Explain.    JADE leads to what again?    Circular arguments.    Stop justifying, arguing, defending and explaining your position.   She doesn't care.     And she won't see your point of view.     She's not going to suddenly say - oh now that you have explained this to me for the 900th time I finally understand and agree,  I'll do what you want.

Me
   I am starting to feel healthy

Her:
   I feel deeper in love with m

Me
   Great.

Her:
   Because my brain was free of drama

and where do you think this is going?     you've had this (almost exact) same conversation how many times now?     why do you think its going to be different this time?

Me
   I don’t want to be your friend. You’re not nice
   I’ve finally accepted that
   I tried to blame it on your disorder
   All the violence
   All the drama
   All the triggering
   I supported your moving on with M but you literally asked me not to move on
   That’s not friendship
   And your attack this weekend for no reason was the last straw
   Last
   We’re not friends
   You wished I would die in a car crash
   All because I wouldn’t console you for hitting me
   Anyway. I’m glad you are with m.  Have fun
   All I ask is you leave me alone

this text exchange should have ended right here.     this quickly degrades into childish nonsense.     I'd suggest you end the converation.    "I'm turning off my phone now"...    

Me:
   You still can’t take any responsibility. I shouldn’t have to explain that if you hit someone you don’t get to be mad that they want some space
   I shouldn’t have to explain that you don’t get to wish someone dies because they didn’t take care of your needs after hitting them
   If you hit someone you don’t get to demand anything
   And you’re still doing it
   If you hit someone you aren’t entitled to a ride from them minutes later

More JADE.

Her:
   All my actions are to get even with you for your violence
   Sociopath
   Stop messaging me

Me
   Still justifying to your violence  
   That’s psychopath
   You don’t even realize hitting is wrong

Seriously?    this has degraded into mutual name calling like children on a play ground and you are still hanging in there going round and round in circles?    Stop Arguing.    Walk away.    Put down the phone.

Me
   Ttyl
Me
   How do you do the things you do and say the things you do and then pretend like nothing happened
   You can’t do that to people
   I am done being your punching bag
   Ttyl

how many mixed messages are in this one exchange.   You want her to leave you alone but then say Talk To You Later?     Twice?     You are done being her punching bag but allow her to call you more names?    You   have to be the emotional leader here and stop these useless counter productive circular conversations.     Until you do she will continue to do what she is doing because she gets something out of it.   She dumps her negative emotions on you and feels superior because of it.    You are enabling the dysfunction.

[Sappho11]

What babyducks said. Tough love but true. Way too many mixed signals. This will never end unless you actually set your foot down, tell her "I'm out" and then actually act upon it. Difficult, I know. But if you want to get out, this needs to be done.

It doesn't have to be a "forever" thing. But from the looks of it, you could do with a couple of months of distance.

[grumpydonut]

What. The. PLEASE READ.

She is next level crazy.

[babyducks]

She is next level crazy.

Oh I really don't think it matters what level of crazy she is.

Accepting 100% of the responsibility for our half of these relationships is the way to heal and grow.

[I Am Redeemed]

In this exchange, I can see that you are really invested in getting her to understand what about her behavior is wrong and how it impacts you. I did the same thing with my ex, over and over and got the same result. I call it "trying to wrestle empathy out of someone".

Every time you engage in these kinds of conversations with her, you're basically banging your head against a brick wall and giving yourself a headache. This is not productive, it will never be productive, and if you choose to continue trying to get past her deeply ingrained psychological patterns of interpreting data from her social environment, you will get nothing but frustration and upset.

[Cant breathe]

Interesting that she even engages this much. Mine left with a four-line text and never looked back. 

[EZEarache]

Seriously?    this has degraded into mutual name calling like children on a play ground and you are still hanging in there going round and round in circles?    Stop Arguing.    Walk away.    Put down the phone.

Don't beat yourself up for taking the bait here, Dad 50. Last week my ex started taking to calling me "psychotic" and "psycho."

After being called this five or six times in less than twelve hours, I fired back, "you have a major personality disorder."

It's pretty triggering, when they are projecting their alternate reality and mental health issues back onto you. Probably what was going through your mind, was something like, "WTF! You're the sociopath, I didn't even want to have this conversation to begin with."

You're best bet is going to be simply not to respond to her texts, regardless of whether they are friendly or not. If she comes to your place of business and makes a scene, call the police and have her escorted out.

[ILMBPDC]

My problem is I think I can stop myself from initiating contact, but if she contacts me, I feel obligated to respond.  

Best way to avoid this?  Block. Her. and delete her number/social media/etc

After 48 hours she reached out as if nothing happened. I was proud of myself last weekend that when she hit me

I'm proud of you too!

I left and didn't continue our plans for the day. I became the bad guy once again for not continuing our plans.

You will always be the bad guy in her eyes.

 

Her:
   We are officially broken up
   Just friends now
   I agree

Me
   I am starting to feel healthy
Her:
   I feel deeper in love with "M"
Me
   Great.

Her:
   Because my brain was free of drama
 

way for her to turn the conversation back to her and make you the bad guy (rolling my eyes here)

 

Me
   I don’t want to be your friend. You’re not nice
   I’ve finally accepted that
   I tried to blame it on your disorder
   All the violence
   All the drama
   All the triggering
   I supported your moving on with M but you literally asked me not to move on
   That’s not friendship
   And your attack this weekend for no reason was the last straw
   Last
   We’re not friends
   You wished I would die in a car crash
   All because I wouldn’t console you for hitting me
   Anyway. I’m glad you are with m.  Have fun
   All I ask is you leave me alone
 

GOOD FOR YOU!

Honestly the next bit of conversation was her trying to turn it back on you. Narcissistic? Sociopath? Granted, I don't know you, but I know in my own experience with my BPD, every ex her told me about he blamed in some way, his ex wife is a "classic narcissist", the ex before me is a "clinger who can't let go", it seems like they have to always blame someone else.

 

Her:
   I can’t wait to see m in a few minutes he always makes me feel better because he’s a way better human being!
   Are you doing a 5:30 work out tomorrow
   Time away from each other is good
   Hope we can be friends
   No more sex
 

100% guarantee that she would try to have sex with you again if she got you alone.
And she expects you to go get her tomatoes?  WTF

You seem to be getting your head straight until she calls and I'm going to say it again

Block. Her.

You can do it.

[Dad50]

Thanks all. this medicine is getting me closer. I will admit a part of me holds on. Part of me still thinks, "If she just understood, we could have all those good parts."

That is the part of me that still responds cordially, and even shares about my day as if things are normal. That part is getting smaller and smaller. This is helping. thanks.

[ILMBPDC]

I will admit a part of me holds on. Part of me still thinks, "If she just understood, we could have all those good parts."

Honestly?  I still have this part as well, but its getting smaller and smaller. This small hope that some day he will realize how awesome we could've been together. That he will get his sh*t together and come back and live this fairy tale he promised at the beginning. I'm human and I wanted that fantasy so badly and, really, I still do.
This forum has helped me understand that it really is just a fairy tale, it was never real and it will never be real. I come here to reinforce my strength.
I know I am very lucky that he cut me off without a word, and its really only because he won't speak to me that I am not still stuck in my own version of the push/pull cycle.  It has given me time to understand what was going on and why I was so affected.
Its only been (almost) 8 weeks, I know I'm not healed and if he texted me tomorrow I'd probably try and "be friends". Stories like yours are immensely helpful to me because I can see what would happen if I tried that. And by giving you advice it helps reinforce in my own mind that 100% no contact is the best way forward.  They have a way of keeping you tethered and they can't do it if you don't let them.

I understand (I'm sure we all do) how hard this is.  The first step was finding the forum and talking about it. It sounds like you are preparing yourself for the next step and we are here for that too.

[Dad50]

Honestly?  I still have this part as well, but its getting smaller and smaller. This small hope that some day he will realize how awesome we could've been together. That he will get his sh*t together and come back and live this fairy tale he promised at the beginning. I'm human and I wanted that fantasy so badly and, really, I still do.
This forum has helped me understand that it really is just a fairy tale, it was never real and it will never be real. I come here to reinforce my strength.
I know I am very lucky that he cut me off without a word, and its really only because he won't speak to me that I am not still stuck in my own version of the push/pull cycle.  It has given me time to understand what was going on and why I was so affected.
Its only been (almost) 8 weeks, I know I'm not healed and if he texted me tomorrow I'd probably try and "be friends". Stories like yours are immensely helpful to me because I can see what would happen if I tried that. And by giving you advice it helps reinforce in my own mind that 100% no contact is the best way forward.  They have a way of keeping you tethered and they can't do it if you don't let them.

I understand (I'm sure we all do) how hard this is.  The first step was finding the forum and talking about it. It sounds like you are preparing yourself for the next step and we are here for that too.

Yes, exactly. I wish she would just go no contact. It would make it so much easier. I know that is my responsibility and I have agency, but it sure would be easier if she would just stop contacting me.  For the life of me I don't know why she holds on. I thought once she found new dude it'd be over.

[IntoTheWind]

Few wonders of the sunless depths appear quite so ghoulish or improbable as anglerfish, creatures that dangle bioluminescent lures in front of needlelike teeth. They are fish that fish.

Typically, the rod of flesh extending from the forehead glows at the tip. Anglerfish can wiggle the lure to better mimic living bait. Most species can open their mouths wide enough to devour prey whole, using their fangs not only as daggers but as bars of a cage. Some can open their jaws and stomachs so wide as to trap victims much larger than themselves.

When an anglerfish suddenly opens its giant mouth, the resulting suction pulls in the luckless victim. After the jaw slams shut, small teeth on the floor of the mouth and throat deliver the meal to the fish’s belly.

Don't feed the anglerfish. You're in a boxing match with someone who's impervious to damage.

[SinisterComplex]

She holds on because you are too nice and show signals that she still has a hold on you. You give off the impression she can still have you whenever she wants you. Part of me still thinks, "If she just understood, we could have all those good parts." - Please pull the baby powder out and proceed to give yourself a smack. That thought process is living in fantasyland not reality. You cannot make her understand and additionally it is not your responsibility to do so.

Want it to end? Be firm and indifferent. You have to learn to operate from a place of power...abundance.  You cannot operate from a place of weakness which is scarcity. Here is what I mean. If you are firm and indifferent you are showing her that she has no control over you and that she is just another fish in the sea. Nothing more, nothing less. You also have to detach yourself from the outcome...this is where indifference comes in. You are not invested in the outcome one way or the other.

As it stands right now you are still treating her like she is special and that she is on a pedestal of some sort. Stop it. You do have the power and the control here but you are relinquishing it because you are not letting go. Therefore, you are still leaving the door open and providing false hope.

Sometimes it is necessary to be an $$hole. It is ok because you are doing it for your own benefit and your own sanity.

Good people like you deserve better treatment and respect than you have been shown and given. Start making it a point that you are to be respected and not worry so much whether someone likes you or not.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[IntoTheWind]

You need to be mentally prepared for an imminent discard.

[Shaken54]

Dad50,
 So sorry you are going through this, each pwbpd is different in how they react. I agree with others here yours sounds like she is on the worse side of the spectrum. I agree just go NC do not engage at all as tempting as it is to try and get your point across, its not going to work you are trying to get through to someone who is not capable of thinking properly.

Arguing with her to get her to accept your view you might as well be arguing with a street sign. She is never going to see things your way, they can never be wrong they are always the victim.
Stay strong and get through the NC and it should get easier as the days and weeks pass.

[ILMBPDC]

Its very common for BPD to hold on so that they have a "backup" if their current person doesn't work out. It feeds them to know that you are still hung up on them.

My daughter is BPD (high functioning, went through therapy) and has been very, very helpful for me to understand a lot of what was going on from a different perspective. I gave her the gist of your story and her advice is a little different from mine ...
She says to absolutely go no contact - don't respond, don't feed the monster. But she recommends not blocking her because since she is already showing signs of violence, the likelihood of her raging/rampaging at you when she finds out she had been blocked is high. Some BPDs who show violent tendencies have been known to show up unannounced at your door to take out her anger and even possibly go after any new girlfriends (or people she thinks might be a girlfriend - your coworker?).  Eventually she is going to get bored and stop doing this. She is only looking for you to respond - she wants you to be angry and upset because she "gets off" on it - its fun for her - she's admitted that already. (See, I told you my daughter has some interesting insights)

Ok, back to me: There is an acronym - JADE - which stands for (Don't) Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain  - I see a LOT of this in your messages to her.  Its common with non-PDs, the need to explain ourselves...but it just causes circular arguments in someone with  a PD.
You might want to read up on it: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=139972.0

[babyducks]

I will admit a part of me holds on. Part of me still thinks, "If she just understood, we could have all those good parts."

the person you are attempting to communicate with has a serious mental illness.  her view of life, events, things is skewed by her mental illness.    she lives within a distorted reality.   I Am Redeemed said it perfectly:

and if you choose to continue trying to get past her deeply ingrained psychological patterns of interpreting data from her social environment, you will get nothing but frustration and upset.

pwBPD do indeed have deeply ingrained psychological patterns of interpreting data,...   to survive the catastrophe of not being whole, of never feeling good enough, of always feeling empty and unloved they must always be the victim, you must always be at fault and they can not feel any blame or shame.   They feel very strongly about their beliefs and they fiercely defend such beliefs as they are part of a self-protection system.

Their need to protect their fragile sense of self will always come first.     She will always defend her behavior by pointing out how yours is worse.   She has to.   That's the mental construct she has that enables her to survive.    She isn't 'misunderstanding you',    she is putting her need to protect herself above your need for empathy.     its not deliberate.    She will rarely consider your feelings; and will only do so if it serves her some how.     That is how she survives.

 

That is the part of me that still responds cordially, and even shares about my day as if things are normal.

Things haven't really been normal for a long time have they?

Let's look at what she says here:

Her:
   I can’t wait to see M. in a few minutes he always makes me feel better because he’s a way better human being!

Who is this about?    What is this about?   Its about her and her needs.    "he always makes me feel better".     Her needs will always come first.    Her need for attention.   Her need for engagement.    Her need stimulation.    Her need for tomatoes and rides to Crossfit will always come before your need for respect and understanding.    Always.    She is so terrified of not getting her needs and wants met she can not begin to look at yours.

She holds on because you are meeting some of her needs.    Because you are there for her to project blame and shame onto,  she can tell herself Dad50 is so awful he made my life a mess.    She can tell herself Dad50 didn't give me what I needed so I am justified in hitting him.    Continuing the conversation with her enables her to continue to think and act this way.

[Dad50]

babyducks,
   All of this rings 100% true. It is just so spot on.  Then the part of me kicks in that has empathy for her. How sad she must be inside that she needs to do all of this. I can't be mad at her when she is just reacting out of subconscious, self preservation. then I go down that rabbit hole.

She went to a mutual friends wedding, with her new boyfriend. I chose not to go because she hadn't even told the mutual friend we were split up, and I didn't want to distract from the friends big day.  Part of me is sad not to have been able to share the day of celebration with lots of friends, but it would have been dumb to go.

 

[Turkish]

Dad50,

What are you getting out of this? Validation that she's "crazy?" Hurtful? Projecting? It will wind down when you make it so.

Maybe try this: 2.03 | B.I.F.F. Technique for Communications

[Manic Miner]

In this exchange, I can see that you are really invested in getting her to understand what about her behavior is wrong and how it impacts you. I did the same thing with my ex, over and over and got the same result. I call it "trying to wrestle empathy out of someone".

Every time you engage in these kinds of conversations with her, you're basically banging your head against a brick wall and giving yourself a headache. This is not productive, it will never be productive, and if you choose to continue trying to get past her deeply ingrained psychological patterns of interpreting data from her social environment, you will get nothing but frustration and upset.

This is exactly what I'm doing and been doing for years with my wife. Like my deceased mother, a true empath that always saw the best in people, tried to reason with my narcissistic father, to listen, to care, to explain. Usually at her own expense.

I'm in a similar position as you, Dad50. Also experienced unleashed physical anger, spilling a hot tea on me, sticking her nails to my shoulders to bleed, throwing me on sofa, etc.
Except that my wife would actually listen to therapists IF they saw the things I've seen. I will be honest with you here - I'm starting to feel really pissed off with therapists I've seen so far, as most just fell for the attractiveness, fragility and kindness of my wife that always tried to display the best of herself at counseling.

At one point I even said to her there - if you were talking at home as you did now, we wouldn't be here. When I tried to tell my way of the story, everything was put in reason. One therapist almost scolded me about something I told, to the point that I almost gave up at the session. I truly felt she connected with my wife and took her side. And that's the LAST thing I needed here. That's worse than going to no therapy.
When I told her about unusual behaviour my wife did after a fight, threatening to throw herself from the terrace, acting like she'd cross the fence (she didn't), therapist told me "oh well, yes, but a lot of people do foolish stuff when in a middle of a fight". I was like - lady, I know my wife wouldn't want to kill herself, it was all acting, but there was 0.1% a chance she could do something stupid and accidentally in that state. That's NOT normal! Nobody in his sane mind would act out as throwing himself over the fence! Drama or not. It happened 3x in 10 years, yeah, but I will never accept that as "well, it happens". I don't care what some therapists think, for me that won't ever be acceptable, even in the darkest of times.

I *know* my wife would listen if therapists would say things to her, but alas, they always tend to see only one part of the coin and that's her best side.