Example 1 million on why responding isn't worth it

[Dad50]

So, After a full week of non contact, with a close call Monday, she e-mailed me on Tuesday. I realize I shouldn't respond, and I didn't too much. I tried to keep it very deferential and concise.  Here is the brief back and forth:

Her:  How’s life been?

Me: I’m okay. Good to have healing time. Just working on myself.  I’m probably going to switch gyms starting next month.  Trying out a free week at a gym called Ferrels this week.How are you ?  I’m glad you got everything you always wanted.

Her: What do you mean I got everything I always wanted?

Me: Oh just meant the quiet peaceful life. Perfect guy. Etc. glad you’re happy. How are things.

Her:  Thanks. I agree. I found a good match. We already have a long future planned ahead. We are so similar.  Thanks for your support. Hope you enjoy Farrels. I plan to stay at CorePower and CrossFit for the next few years.
I’m glad you’re healing. I have.

--------


That was it. I didn't reply to her last comment. At this point I am seeing how almost absurd it is. On the one hand it makes me sad that she seems so in love after being with this new guy for just three months. On the other hand, in our dysfunctional break up we were still sleeping together up until just a few weeks ago. Just writing it helps to see how ridiculous it is.

I guess I was hoping that, in reaching out, she might actually apologize for all the volatility, and cruelty. Meaningless question , but what is her end game? I mean, she has the new dude, the new life, she has "healed". 

[ILMBPDC]

That was it. I didn't reply to her last comment. At this point I am seeing how almost absurd it is.

Well you did better than I would have one week out, pat yourself on the back for that! 
I do wonder, however, why you wrote "I’m glad you got everything you always wanted." Now, I know we are not the same person, but if I would have written that it would have been with the hope in the back of my mind that my ex would come back and say "oh, you are what I really want, blah blah blah".  Just something to consider...what are your motivations in responding to her?

Meaningless question , but what is her end game?

From everything I have read, she wants to make sure you are still on her string.  She needs the security of a "backup plan" in case this new guy goes wrong...because they always go wrong. Plus, it feeds her ego to know that you still want her, helps validate her existence.

I mean, she has the new dude, the new life, she has "healed". 

I bet you $100 she said/felt the same about you at the beginning. And if she was soo happy with him, would she have been sleeping with you for weeks after?

[GaGrl]

I think you could have responded politely but with a more BIFF reply. Less is more.

[Dad50]

""I do wonder, however, why you wrote "I’m glad you got everything you always wanted.""

To be completely honest, that might have been a little bit passive aggressive. Kind of a combo of, "You got everything thing you wanted, why are you still bothering me", and maybe a llittle scooch of me wanting to hear maybe it is not going spectacularly.


What is funny, in a not funny but "why" kind of way, is that she is maintaining her membership at the yoga studio I teach at.  It was a place I have been at for 10 years and now teach at, so I am pretty ingrained in the community. We had attended classes together for five years.

It caused conflict so many times because people I knew would say hi to me. She felt I was getting more attention, and so on. It got to the point where I would leave out the side door because I was terrified if anyone said hello she would get upset. She always requested that we find a different studio to go to, and I was fine with that if it ended the conflict of what should have been relaxing. We would go to a different studio for a month here or a month there. Of course there would always end up being a reason why we couldn't switch.

Now that we are apart, there is no reason to stay at a place that always upset her, and she asked me to leave many, many times. Now she says she is going to stay for a couple years.

GaGrl----
   I agree. Need to better BIFF. I am still trying to appease her and give her the conversation and connection she desires. I have to put my needs first.

[ILMBPDC]

I agree. Need to better BIFF. I am still trying to appease her and give her the conversation and connection she desires.

Yeah unfortunately unless she changes her mind about the gym you will likely not be able to 100% NC her, so practicing BIFF will be key.  I've said it before, but I feel so lucky my BPD got all butthurt and refuses to talk to me  And that we no longer work together...it is supremely unlikely that I will ever "run into" him in a metro of 3.7 million people, but I do contemplate my responses should that happen (and honestly I fully expect him to try and get into contact again at some point) and its hard to imagine being cordial, I have so many things I want to get off my chest. I don't envy you (likely) having to see her regularly.

I have to put my needs first.

Yes!

[Dad50]

"  I've said it before, but I feel so lucky my BPD got all butthurt and refuses to talk to me  Smiling (click to insert in post) "


I know, right! I share 50% custody of my kids with my ex-wife and I haven't even seen my ex-wife's face in 2+ years. We e-mail each other once a month to square up and make sure things are running smooth, and that's it. That seems like what should happen when people break up. I mean, why do you even want to talk to me anymore?

[grumpydonut]

Dad50, this woman is one of the worst people I've seen someone post about on these forums. She is not a good person. Her actions are very close to what I would consider evil.

You definitely don't feel this way atm, but one day you will see how pathetic a person she is.

I know this may sound harsh, but what else can you call someone who asks "how are things" so that she can stab you a few times with how perfect her life is.

ps. her relationship will go down in flames again. No one who is as selfish as her ever has a "happy ever after"

[Dad50]

Grumpy,
   I feel like you are right. I mean, why not just let me go?

She showed up at my yoga class I was teaching tonight. Put her mat down right next to my the mat I was teaching from. Fron t and center.

I actually wasn't too triggered, and practiced the BIFF techniques very well.  Of course afterward my monkey mind chattered away telling me I should message her to tell her it was nice to see her, and my compulsive thoughts tell me she will feel sad if I don't respond.

I am not going to message her. She will be pissed I didn't. I am going to be okay with that.  It hurts me to think she might be sad, but I am tired of worrying about the sadness of someone who has been so cruel. Plus, why the hell am I worrying about her sadness when she has a nice partner to comfort her. She doesn't need me, which is good!

[I Am Redeemed]

Was it really nice to see her, though? Is that true?

I guarantee she wouldn't feel sad if you said nothing. Probably would only be mad that her deliberate attention seeking behavior didn't work.

She is treating you as a supplement to her other sources for attention.

[GaGrl]

You need to remember -- and LOCK into your thinking --  that your Ex is a therapist who, frankly, could be called into a State board, and a university board, for unethical practices in her profession.

The fact that she has behaved the way she has, that she had said the words she has, that she has manipulated the situations in which you have found yourself -- you have so much ammunition to charge her with violations that would result in the loss of her license. Her ethical failings are beyond understanding -- are her supervisors not aware of her activities? I find it hard to believe that she has not violated multiple ethical rules to her behavior and behavior in the workplace.

[SinisterComplex]

Dad50, this woman is one of the worst people I've seen someone post about on these forums. She is not a good person. Her actions are very close to what I would consider evil.

You definitely don't feel this way atm, but one day you will see how pathetic a person she is.

I know this may sound harsh, but what else can you call someone who asks "how are things" so that she can stab you a few times with how perfect her life is.

ps. her relationship will go down in flames again. No one who is as selfish as her ever has a "happy ever after"

Grumpy, I just have to say...Atta Boy. #bropound. The growth, confidence, and power I see in you is phenomenal. 

Dad50...I've kicked a dead horse plenty a time here, but the theme is still the same. You have to really pull the plug on her. One thing I constantly see is that people always try to find alternate routes when they shouldn't. For example...how many times have you left the door open? Has the result ever been good for you? Sometimes being the $$hole is ok. I have a friend of mine I have had to work on this with that had an ex that wouldn't leave him alone.

He kept trying to leave the door open thinking his optimistic ways were going to win out. All it did was the leave the door open for more drama. When he tried to bring up the conversation about his ex again I made it clear I don't want to hear the damn name come up in conversation again. I explained to him very bluntly and harshly I could care less about control. What I care about is your best interests and that means protecting you against yourself. He is also too damn nice. Of course the argument he came back with is that he cannot be like me. I said that is the problem...you keep thinking you need to be like me and that you are doing things my way. Wrong answer. I'm like you are my friend one way or the other, but I am going to be a real friend and tell you what you need to hear and not what you want to hear. Therefore, in order for you to be happy and to grow you need to cut your losses and move on and slam that mutha F :cursing:ing door SHUT for GOOD! It took a while of battling with each other where he finally dropped his ego and realized he wasn't giving into me and he wasn't losing to me. No, he was winning and putting his best interests first. He cut ties entirely with the ex. The ex left him no choice and was quite toxic so he had a face to face with the ex and said what he needed to say and blocked the ex...phone, social media, etc.

Now obviously no one wants to have to go to that level. However, self-preservation trumps all. Do not be afraid to pull out the old fashioned B  Be gone spray and cut yourself loose from the toxic sludge. Look at the damage done to you. Look at your lack of confidence. Look at you questioning your own self worth. You question yourself. You flip flop like a pancake. She projected all her crap on you and then essentially ran off because she is a gutless coward and cannot deal with her own crap. Disordered or not...Never ever let anyone have that kind of power over you. F that!

Lastly, I am with GaGrl...if you want to really nut up and handle business put her $$ on skates and get her audited and investigated. Play time is over. It wouldn't make you vindictive or vengeful either...No, you would be doing the right thing. You deserve happiness and peace of mind. You are no one else's dumping ground my friend. Want better, Expect Better, Do Better!

Cheers and best wishes! 

[grumpydonut]

This woman is a therapist?

Dad50, as a psychology university student who has ambitions to become a clinical psychologist, you should 100% consider reporting her. People like her have absolutely no place treating others. If she's a narcissist, and it seems that she is both BPD and NPD, then she can do some serious damage to her patients.

[Dad50]

This woman is a therapist?

Dad50, as a psychology university student who has ambitions to become a clinical psychologist, you should 100% consider reporting her. People like her have absolutely no place treating others. If she's a narcissist, and it seems that she is both BPD and NPD, then she can do some serious damage to her patients.

She is literally the chair of the state board for goodness sake. Her intelligence and drive is one of the things I loved about her, but it's why I feel like no one would possibly ever believe me. She is super accomplished in her professional life. I have 5 years of pictures of every bruise, scratch, bite mark, etc because I was terrified that one day she would report me to the police out of spite. I have our text and e-mails. Voice recordings of her saying horrible things to me and her kid.

One time, we were in an argument at 3 a.m. and I tried to leave, but she grabbed my phone. I went to leave, but the cops showed up. 911 was called. it was confusing and I explained I was actually trying to leave, but she was blocking me and so on.  I thought she had called 911, and the cops were confused because it came from my phone. Apparently she just accidentally pressed my phone and she jumped through hoops to get the cops to leave.

Anyway, after the cops left she was happy because she said the cops couldn't believe that she was keeping me there. That they just laughed when I said I was trying to leave. Another time, I wasn't there, but her daughter's friend called the police to come intervene in some sort of domestic thing she was having with her daughter. Of course she blamed it on the "out of control" friend of the daughter.

So yeah, she is super successful. A leader at the University where she works. On the state board, and so on. Who they going to believe?

Meanwhile, my capacity for forgiveness has kept me trapped for too long. I feel like I am close to being free. Each day I get closer.

I did not reach out to her after she showed up to my yoga class. No follow up or anything.

[Dad50]

Grumpy, I just have to say...Atta Boy. #bropound. The growth, confidence, and power I see in you is phenomenal. 

Dad50...I've kicked a dead horse plenty a time here, but the theme is still the same. You have to really pull the plug on her. One thing I constantly see is that people always try to find alternate routes when they shouldn't. For example...how many times have you left the door open? Has the result ever been good for you? Sometimes being the $$hole is ok. I have a friend of mine I have had to work on this with that had an ex that wouldn't leave him alone.


Cheers and best wishes! 

Yeah, I feel like I am getting closer and closer.  The last time we were together, she got triggered in the morning because I brought up someone from work, and started asking if I was telling my works friends all about our break up. I wasn't, of course, because we co-dependents like to keep our shame secret, but when I told her I wasn't she started hitting me multiple times. I actually left this time. She got super  pissed because I was supposed to give her a ride later (she has her own car). I actually told her no and followed through. Well, she went off on what a horrible person I was for not giving her a ride.

I Keep reminding myself: What kind of person hits you, then expects you to give them a ride then gets super pissed when you don't because they just got done hitting you.

Over five years I've normalized that crap. I am getting closer to fortifying myself. I was glad I didn't reach out after her contact yesterday. Small victories.

[grumpydonut]

I know labels are likely unimportant to you at this point - abuse is abuse regardless of labels. But this woman doesn't sound like a borderline to me. There seem to be very clear differences in your stories compared to the 100s of others I have read.

If anything, this woman sounds like someone with NPD, ASPD or perhaps even pure psychopathy.

I definitely urge you to completely cut her out. Whether or not you not being around makes her sad is really irrelevant. She's going to continue to hurt you, and perhaps worse.

[Calli]

I agree with grumpy donut - this sounds a lot more like NPD in my opinion.   It’s very common for them to be in high positions of authority, like your ex is in her field.  Chilling when you think about it.  Dad50, keep every single scrap of evidence you have, and make backups.  Line up a lawyer friend too just in case you may ever need one.

Lastly, I think the fact that you didn’t get in touch with her after the yoga class was a huge leap in progress for you!  Congratulations I know it wasn’t easy. I guarantee you with all the cells in my body that she did it to get a reaction from you.   The fact that she didn’t get one from you is making her pull her hair out at this moment.   The more you can “grey rock” her the better.  And the sooner she’ll get bored with you and move on to some other prey. 

Well done!

[grumpydonut]

And the sooner she’ll get bored with you and move on to some other prey.

Or try to destroy you. You can never be too careful around a person like this. My therapist - who specialises in Cluster Bs (and this is why I visited him to understand my ex!) - said that it's common that they destroy people's lives with lies, and accusations that end up in court. He actually told me that he considered my situation extremely fortunate and that "it can get much worse".

Guard yourself, my friend. When we love a cluster B, we can be truly blind to how dangerous some of them they truly are.

[ILMBPDC]

I know labels are likely unimportant to you at this point - abuse is abuse regardless of labels. But this woman doesn't sound like a borderline to me. There seem to be very clear differences in your stories compared to the 100s of others I have read.

If anything, this woman sounds like someone with NPD, ASPD or perhaps even pure psychopathy.

I definitely urge you to completely cut her out. Whether or not you not being around makes her sad is really irrelevant. She's going to continue to hurt you, and perhaps worse.

I'm still shaken from learning she is a therapist!
But yes, I agree with the above - who cares if she's a psychopath, NPD, BPD or all of the above - you are OUT and you are well on your way to staying there!  

Or try to destroy you. You can never be too careful around a person like this. My therapist - who specialises in Cluster Bs (and this is why I visited him to understand my ex!) - said that it's common that they destroy people's lives with lies, and accusations that end up in court. He actually told me that he considered my situation extremely fortunate and that "it can get much worse".

I feel the same - I am soo lucky I got out without some of the batsh*t crazy experiences others have had.

[babyducks]

I believe that there is a huge difference between being assertive and being an $$.

Being assertive is a healthy thing.    It demonstrates that you think enough about yourself to stand up for yourself in a firm but kind way.

It seems that people who have trouble being assertive about their own needs have lower self esteem.

To me being assertive means taking care of yourself in reasonable ways.

[brighter future]

This woman is a therapist?

Dad50, as a psychology university student who has ambitions to become a clinical psychologist, you should 100% consider reporting her. People like her have absolutely no place treating others. If she's a narcissist, and it seems that she is both BPD and NPD, then she can do some serious damage to her patients.

Wow, this really brought back some memories. My BPD ex-wife was a school teacher when we got married and taught elementary level children until our child was born. While our divorce was pending, she went back to college to pursue a degree in social work and graduated with a Bachelor's nearly 3 years ago. She's due to graduate with a Master's in December and is working on an internship in counseling. The thought of her counseling other people frightens me, especially since she has great difficulty getting along with people and managing her own life and mental illness. How in the world can someone help other people when they can't manage their own life? 

My ex is a person with BPD and a whole host of other mental health disorders. She is also heavily medicated and was hospitalized in an inpatient facility as recently as this January. Matter of fact, she left her social work job and went away to the inpatient facility. Her parents are supporting her financially while she's pursuing her Master's. They did the same when she pursued her Bachelor's several years ago after our separation and divorce. Keep in mind that she is getting ready to turn 40 years old.

 I saw a licensed psychologist while the legal process was going on with the divorce and custody case. She guided me through the process and taught me a lot as far as how to deal with my ex's BPD. When we learned that my ex wanted to be a counselor (she told the judge that during one of our hearings), my Phd. counselor said she prayed that my ex "would be found out" before that ever happened. It looks like that hasn't happened yet. We had a forensic psychologist do a custody evaluation while the legal process was going on. He stated that he felt like my ex was becoming "treatment savvy" since she'd had so much counseling over the last several years and learned how to tell counselors the right things to fool them. There was evidence that she was manipulating two different counselors and one psychiatrist during the same period of time. During this time period, according to medical records, she was telling these three treatment professionals three different stories as far as her mental health goes and her progress. While we were in court, BPD was brought up several times by the forensic psychologist when he testified and also by the attorneys. Each time her BPD was mentioned in the courtroom, she would get very agitated and did not like having that label. I just hope that she doesn't do harm to other people.