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Author Topic: Now she wants a puppy… and a baby.. and loads of new clothes…  (Read 1496 times)
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« on: October 03, 2021, 04:50:18 PM »

My wife always “wants wants wants”. As my mum remarked, she always wants something new. We have two amazing children but with the little one turning five months, she already wants another one. We have a dog. He’s amazing but a crazy staffie, he was a rescue dog and never been exactly trained though he is lovely with the children but he jumps on people and here’s the thing, he is generally aggressive barking at other people’s dogs but he met next doors’ puppy once and was fine with her. My wife is now changing the narrative of the past, blaming me for why she didn’t get a puppy five years ago. It was because she realised she didn’t have the time to train it etc, but she’s saying it’s because we had an argument and she gave up the idea because of me. The only argument we had was me saying it wouldn’t be appropriate or allowed by a rescue centre to bring a rescue dog home the same day as a new puppy. We went round and round this argument for hours whereas I now know I should have just let it go but it was a long time ago. Anyway that’s why she ended up getting a rescue dog and I never got a dog. How best to handle this situation? Her dog has hardly ever been on walks (she can’t take him out with the kids because he’s out of control and I’m not allowed to take him… and before the kids she was just too lazy). The dog is a bundle of energy and gets plenty of exercise in the garden but I generally believe a dog should go for daily walks and that it helps their behaviour. It’s also another financial burden on me… She is now losing weight healthily and gaining confidence… hooray! But the problem is she is not spending so much on takeaways - good - but now has hundreds of outfits in her online shopping baskets and has also bought quite a lot. It’s been asked of me before on here… about her spending. She gets maternity allowance and child benefit. She is in “arrangements” with her creditors to just pay back £1 a month as it’s “all she can afford”. But there is nothing to stop her getting more credit cards. The situation is absurd honestly. I never knew it was so easy to spend loads of money that wasn’t yours and not pay it back. I guess you only find out if you try it. Oh and she’s somewhat annoyed that because my family’s money has gone into “our” house, then she can’t just get an iva where the government pay off most of your debts. Sorry for the rant. I think I’ve done well not to get into more arguments with her this weekend. She is very stressed about our eldest’s birthday this week. I’m like, “she’s 2!!!! Give her a cake and a balloon she’ll be over the moon! Ok maybe not a cake too stressful… what about a chocolate bar?” Lol
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2021, 05:43:12 PM »

 
Do you believe your wife picks up on your attitude about her choices?

How do you think that affects your relationship?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2021, 09:06:35 PM »


Do you believe your wife picks up on your attitude about her choices?

How do you think that affects your relationship?

Best,

FF
Yes absolutely, my wife picks up on my attitude and I have never kept it a secret… I met my wife online when I was living in another country and we became extremely close ridiculously quickly. At the time she was severely mentally ill and would say things like, “I’m not going to eat for 3 whole weeks…” She has come a long, long way since then. In my previous relationship I didn’t feel like my ex needed me and I wanted to feel needed. What I really wanted (which he denied me for the whole 14 years) was a child. When I left him for a woman I wasn’t even expecting that we would have children. But a mother was not what my wife wanted from me of course, although I would say “only partly”. She often said in those early days before I left him, that she would only “get better” for me, and only if I left him. I wanted nothing more than for her to get better and to be with her. But of course with her not being a child, I found I had to keep my mouth shut about so many things… “let me make my own mistakes…” There are still so many things she doesn’t know and it is frustrating for us both because I am set in my ways. I have always let her make mistakes but then sometimes I can’t help myself “interfering”. Like last week she was going to make a dish with baking potatoes but slice and boil the potatoes instead of baking them. And I told her, “maybe you should get smaller potatoes, different potatoes have different purposes.” So she abandoned any idea of making the dish. And when she abandons ideas like this I feel really sad… but at the same time I hate when she does make mistakes because of my choice not to interfere… like the time she was icing a cakeand melted the butter fully in the microwave instead of just softening it. And it curdled the icing and the cake ended up in the bin. But then the cake could have ended up in the bin just from me trying to help. In such instances I usually say, “would you like to know what I think?” But that is also the wrong thing to say because, she says she will tell me if she wants to know what I think or wants any help… One huge problem is that she has - always - been financially dependent on me because even before the kids she wouldn’t keep a job for very long and only a few hours a week. I hoped back then she would learn and understand why people need to work. But why would she need to work, I have always helped support her and of course the bank also give her money which she’s learnt she doesn’t have to pay back. Please help me, I wish I’d found this site a long time ago but during the first few years of our relationship I wouldn’t have had much time for it, it’s only because we’re in separate beds now that I get the chance to come on here (because she sleeps with the children in our bed and was getting too physically uncomfortable with me in there even before the kids).
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« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2021, 04:29:06 AM »

We have two amazing children but with the little one turning five months, she already wants another one. .... How best to handle this situation?

Reading between the lines it sounds as if you are not convinced that it would be wise to add another child, another dog or more debt to your family.

How have you expressed your thoughts to your wife?

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« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2021, 07:28:25 AM »



Hey...something to clarify.

I was initially attracted to my pwBPD because (fill in the blank)

I continue my relationship with my pwBPD because (fill in the blank).


Best,

FF
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« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2021, 11:38:55 AM »

So you’re currently in debt; you are still paying off the sofa. Your wife has accrued other debt and she is eager to spend more.

She didn’t have time to train the rescue dog, and that was before children?

And she wishes to have another child and another dog.

How do you see this all working out financially? Will there be enough time in the day to take care of two dogs in addition to three children?

Who is going to pay for all these expenses?
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« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2021, 12:08:37 PM »

This brings up a really good question (I'm in the same predicament as you've seen my post about "The "Perfect" BPD Family")... the BPD spouse wants more children, the non BPD spouse doesn't think it's a wise move for whatever reason (financial, emotional, etc). 

Who wins?  Who gets to choose?  And how do you go about settling it?   
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« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2021, 02:15:15 PM »


Who wins?  Who gets to choose?  And how do you go about settling it?   

How do you think you will decide this for yourself?  (that's a great place to start)

Best,

FF
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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2021, 02:20:00 PM »

How do you think you will decide this for yourself?  (that's a great place to start)

Best,

FF

I have no idea!  That's why I asked the question. ;)
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« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2021, 03:10:22 PM »


For such a fundamental question such as "should I have more children" it's important to figure out that answer yourself..especially if you find you have a strong opinion one way or another.

Then figure out how to communicate your decision (communicate a decision is much different that "defend" or "convince someone else I am right") to other people.

Then it's just a matter of yes and no answers.

If both people say yes...likely another child shows up.

Both people say no...more likely...no children.

If one says one way and one says the other...then you have to figure out if you want the relationship more or less than you want (fill in the blank).


Best,

FF
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« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2021, 05:10:44 PM »


Hey...something to clarify.

I was initially attracted to my pwBPD because I loved the attention she gave me and how much she loved me and needed me. I had never felt so close to anyone before. My ex didn’t want children and I just wanted to look after someone I guess. She was very needy. He became needy when I said I was leaving. It was very complicated.

I continue my relationship with my pwBPD because we are married and I made promises I want to fulfill. I do feel responsible for her well being. Her childhood was hellish and I want to be a positive thing for her. And because of the children. It’s not because I fear a broken home, it’s more because I want to be with them as much as possible. As birth mother and still breast feeding, and sleeping with them, she is the lead parent for sure right now.

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« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2021, 05:28:10 PM »

Thank you all for your support. I feel so unkind being on here complaining about my wife. But I have somehow lost touch with reality and it really helps to realise I’m not mad actually.
Usually my reasons for not buying things are financial, often holidays are the other thing she wants which we can’t afford. I come across as the boring one who never wants to have any fun.
The children thing is complex for us. We underwent ivf with her eggs and donor sperm. This resulted in 4 embryos, the first two became our children and the other two are frozen in storage. We both want to give them a chance at life. But for my wife it is because she wants a huge family. For me it’s because we have created 4 embryos and I want to give them all a chance. There is a crazy law though, which puts time pressure on. The anonymous donor was paid for his sperm by the clinic. And we paid them for it. We read his application. He seemed studious and humble and kind. I’m so grateful as the children so far seem to have these traits. However here’s the crazy thing.. at any time… he can legally withdraw his consent for these embryos to be given life.. even though they are legally ours and biologically my wife’s. This is a huge part of why she wants to have them ASAP. And I feel the same to an extent.. But I am certain she would want loads of babies even if she couldn’t use this excuse. I also know she wants to do more ivf, even if we have four children!! I am the financially responsible one. As for getting a puppy one other huge concern would be having to give it up if our dog didn’t accept it. Along with the huge amount of money we would lose. And time and time again I am pressured to cancel work by my wife. Today I only had three students. We got a difficult email about our sick child’s birth etc and my wife made me feel so guilty I cancelled three hours work. I was only working three hours today and we need the money. But I felt like a cruel person as we hadn’t got through the massive 36 page report yet. But I know it was just the guilt.. but also not wanting to deal with my wife if I were to defy her. Now I feel guilty for letting myself down. Certainly can’t win here.
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2021, 07:09:09 PM »

Yes...there are complications and nuance....if you allow those to matter, then they will matter.

If you stick to the over arching principal of "do I believe it wise to be a parent...again?", then things are much simpler.

Let's be clear for a minute.  I'm not hearing an enthusiastic  YES!!  to the basic question of "is it wise for me to become a parent..again..(and again and again).

Do I have that right?  Am I picking up on the correct "vibe"?


Best,

FF
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« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2021, 03:17:35 PM »

Hi FF,
You are right of course.. I don’t think anyone would say it was wise. However I do feel that I have played a part in creating the embryos and want to give our embryo children a chance at life. I would have been happy if ivf had given us just one child. Or two etc. But if these babies survive the process then I believe it’s meant to be. Four children or potentially more if there were twins..  In contrast, my wife just wants more and more babies. If these two survive or not, she is going to want more and more. I absolutely don’t feel I can stop the process, ridiculous as it sounds. It would potentially be the end of our marriage.
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« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2021, 03:44:26 PM »

Yep, mine got me to adopt a kid and get a puppy. The kid is 17 now and can't wait to leave her. She screams at him constantly. The dog seems to help a little. She still yells at the dog, as if he could understand English.

I have learned to use the dog as an excuse to get out of the house and take the dog to the dog park. You can also train the dog at Petsmart. They have beginner, intermediate and advanced classes. You can get out of the house once per week and get the dog trained! Everyone wins!
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« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2021, 04:41:30 PM »

Garthaz, my wife also shouts a lot and it’s upsetting for all of us, even now years down the line. Sadly the dog is hers and I’m not “allowed” to take him anywhere! I love taking him for walks… and as you say, getting out of the house is also good.
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« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2021, 05:10:25 PM »

Garthaz, my wife also shouts a lot and it’s upsetting for all of us, even now years down the line. Sadly the dog is hers and I’m not “allowed” to take him anywhere! I love taking him for walks… and as you say, getting out of the house is also good.

What happens when you do something you are not "allowed" to do?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2021, 05:11:56 PM »

I absolutely don’t feel I can stop the process, ridiculous as it sounds.

What is the process...perhaps I'm a bit lost here. 

If you say no (and don't cave in)...isn't the process over?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2021, 08:17:49 PM »

What is the process...perhaps I'm a bit lost here. 

If you say no (and don't cave in)...isn't the process over?

Best,

FF

Hi FF,
Thank you for your comments.
Yes in our case it’s actually more simple than in a straight relationship as I know some women pretend to take contraception and don’t etc. (Bizarrely my ex actually told me when I left him that he wished I had become pregnant without his consent… but there’s another story I am intending to tell here another day). In the case of ivf, my wife actually stirred up things at the clinic between having baby 1 and 2 by ringing them to confirm that the babies were legally hers and not mine. For that reason we had to have one counselling session to prove we were still together and both wanted the second child. Anyway.. fact is they are all legally both of ours even though they are biologically hers and not mine. So she needs my consent to have the embryos implanted, (which I would never deny her). As for future ivf cycles, she is entirely financially dependent on me for that, but I do suspect she would threaten to have sex with random guys in order to become pregnant. There is history of abuse and rape with male members of the family and whilst she has never done anything like that since being with me, it has been mentioned when I’ve said, “what would you do if I didn’t want more children?” I don’t think she would actually do it, but I don’t know for sure, and I do know that she would make my life hell forever going on about it. Hopefully by the time I have to deal with such things, I will have learnt from you guys how better to handle things.
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« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2021, 04:26:41 AM »

What happens when you do something you are not "allowed" to do?

Can you say more about why you believe you are not "allowed" to do things and what happens when you do?
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« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2021, 06:09:47 AM »

Would that violate your marriage agreement if your wife slept with someone else?

What are the boundaries of your marriage? She may threaten, or even go through with it, but you have boundaries too.

Your situation reminds me of my parents' situation, except for what is wanted. My BPD mother doesn't want puppies but there's the sense of always wanting something. When my father would provide it, then she wanted something else. Yes, most of us do want things- but we also look at whether it's realistic or affordable too. It's different for my mother- it's an emotional want that translates into wanting certain things but because it's emotional, the desired things doesn't fulfil it. Also, attaining the wanted thing would be the supposed fixer. For example " we need this vacation to fix the marriage" and there'd be a vacation, but it didn't fix the marriage.

And it had to be the exact thing she wanted. When she needed a computer, she asked a teen neighbor what the best one was- and of course, he told her what the best computer was for what he would do with one. My mother basically uses a computer for emails and ordering things online. I was at the store with my father and suggested a basic computer that would meet her needs, (at a lower cost)  but it was not THE computer. My father got agitated and snapped at me and said " it has to be the one she wants'. He knew what would happen if he showed up with the wrong computer, even though it had more features than made sense.

These "wants" don't make sense because they are based on emotions, and emotions are not always rational. Cuddling a baby or holding a puppy is wonderful. But adults also know that babies and puppies don't exist only to make us happy. They are their own living beings. They have needs, and come with responsibilities to care for them.

Your wife may always have wants. We all do but as adults we think about the responsibilities and consequences of our wants. It seems you are the adult thinking one in the relationship. Yes, you want to make your wife happy, but if it's going to cause you financial harm, you also have a say in this, but having a boundary is understandably difficult.
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« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2021, 04:28:50 AM »

Cuddling a baby or holding a puppy is wonderful. But adults also know that babies and puppies don't exist only to make us happy. They are their own living beings. They have needs, and come with responsibilities to care for them.

I really like Notwendy's point here.   Cuddling a baby or snuggling a puppy is a great way to self soothe.   still for those dependent on us for a life time of care we need to be responsible for making the best possible choices.
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« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2021, 06:43:52 AM »

Consider child development. A newborn is a temporary state of enmeshment. For the person who carried them, they are temporarily a part of them and as a newborn, still attached as they are nursing. However, this newborn is a separate individual and it doesn't take long before they begin to assert who they are in their own way. At 5 months, they may be trying foods- and while they may still be nursing, less dependent on it. They are becoming more mobile- rolling, maybe trying to sit up, and also asserting their own moods, and not wanting to snuggle as much.

The newborn time is very special and yet, adults know that babies and puppies grow up. Emotionally, we do go through a bit of grief at the loss of the blissful newborn time and yet, also embrace the new stage and the evolving independence for both parent and child. It's sad when the baby weans and then also, we can do more things once the baby isn't dependent on us for food. This continues. There's a bit of sadness when the child starts kindergarten and also a feeling of freedom to have more time to ourselves. Our goal as parents is to raise completely independent adults with minds of their own. I think that's a challenge for PD parents who I have read think of their children as extensions of themselves. This may feel true in the first few months of infancy but it isn't true- it never was true. They are their own separate person.

Is wanting a baby or puppy once the child is 5 months old a result of the discomfort of being less enmeshed with the child now that they are older or wanting to raise a child through adulthood?  The first few baby months are wonderful- but a child is wonderful at any age, and we need to be capable of loving them and parenting them at all ages.
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« Reply #23 on: October 08, 2021, 09:41:51 AM »

I'm feeling some major FOG coming on for Brokenperson and can also feel it for myself with my wife alluding to wanting a 3rd child.  

FEAR - fear of saying no to another kid when you know your spouse wants one

OBLIGATION - to use the embryos and to fulfill the previous thought/"agreement" of having up to 4 children.
 
GUILT - Knowing your wife will definitely regret not having another child and you "withheld" that from her.
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« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2021, 04:59:00 PM »

I'm feeling some major FOG coming on for Brokenperson and can also feel it for myself with my wife alluding to wanting a 3rd child. 

FEAR - fear of saying no to another kid when you know your spouse wants one

OBLIGATION - to use the embryos and to fulfill the previous thought/"agreement" of having up to 4 children.
 
GUILT - Knowing your wife will definitely regret not having another child and you "withheld" that from her.

Mitten, you are absolutely right I do feel the FOG here. I know it breaks relationships and is hard when couples can’t agree, either one compromises or does not, leaving one person potentially unhappy… or they split up. Tbh I do want us to try with the remaining two embryos. I personally would choose longer in between babies however it is risky with this stupid rule that the donor could have them destroyed. And tbh our daughters were born 18 months apart and they adore each other. But it is very hard work and most of it falls on my wife and our relationship has suffered and not to mention we have the crazy dog too..
So the way I see it, I would like to give those embryos a chance but would not choose to undergo ivf again if they don’t make it. And I can only hope that if they do survive and become our children then my wife will be happy to stop after four. Have you decided yet, if you will agree to another child? Will your wife want more and more too? My wife has always been fixated on “a big family”, not just the helpless newborn stage,? Even though she does love that… breast feeding… being attached 24/7.. But she also likes those dumbass  movies with massive happy families…
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« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2021, 08:59:58 AM »

  And I can only hope that if they do survive and become our children then my wife will be happy to stop after four. 

I'm hoping you can pause and read this while enjoying a favorite beverage.  Maybe even linger over your responses while enjoying the beverage.  Try to move this thing from "heart" to "head" (wisdom).

This is thinking that concerns me greatly.

Can you circle back to your answer about the wisdom of having more children as things are right now?  Maybe expand on that.

Then look at things you can control and perhaps changes can be made by you that will change things (slowly over time) so that you have a different "wisdom" answer a few years in the future.

Last:  Why hasn't the donor had the embryos destroyed last week?  I'd be curious why they weren't destroyed a year ago...  What do you think?

Best,

FF
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« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2021, 01:04:44 PM »

Glad to see you are geting stronger every day! It always helps to educate yourselves when striving to make wise decisions.The Parent, Sibling, or In-law Suffering from BPD board above is really helpful in understanding your children's future and help you plan well. The Son, Daughter or Son/Daughter In-law with BPD board serves the same purpose when thinking about another child. It stands to reason that the more children you have, the more likely one of them is to have BPD.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2021, 07:01:04 AM »

I am not sure the genetics on this is very strong. While it can be possible, there's the question of nature and nurture. What is stronger in families is the family dynamics when a member is disordered. The other family members can take on certain roles to help keep the family stable. Children then may choose partners with a disorder because it's familiar to them and the behaviors become intergenerational.

Looking at the patterns in my family of origin, I can identify dynamics in several members, but only my mother has diagnosable BPD to the point of being severely impaired. Many of her family have narcisisic traits but they seem to be functional and able to maintain employment and stable relationships.

Of my mother's children- none have BPD. However, the emotional and behavioral impact is there. I think the consequences of having a BPD parent are real, and can be a struggle, but from my perspective, the behavioral patterns are more likely to be intergenerational than actual BPD. We tend to lean towards the more co-dependent enabling behaviors as we grew up walking on eggshells with BPD mother.

One big motivator to work on these patterns has been to change the course for my own children. Ironically- the best thing for them is for me to role model emotionally healthy relationship skills. Looking at my own parents, I could see that my mother was clearly dysfunctional. My father was the more functional one- like you, he was the provider, helped keep things stable. These were positive traits to role model for us. However, he was also my mother's enabler. Not having a sense of "normal" - I didn't see this as being problematic, until I brought these tendencies into adult relationships. Self work has changed the pattern.

IMHO, the best thing you can do to help your children grow up into emotionally stable adults is to work on your own relationship skills. While you can not change anyone but yourself ( you can't change your wife) - you can change how you relate to her and so reduce the dysfunctional. I'm sure you want your children to be able to stand up for themselves in their future relationships ( in a kind and yet, effective way)- and so being able to role model this for them can help your relationship and them.

I have seen families where the child has BPD and the parents don't. I think if a family member has BPD, there's a genetic possibility but it doesn't seem to be very frequent from my own observations ( I don't know the exact incidence - it's higher but I don't know how much)  The dysfunctional patterns are common. We don't have any control over the genetics part, but we can have an impact on the dysfunctional patterns. It might also be possible that if a child has a genetic tendency- how they are impacted by the patterns may influence them as well. While my mother is severely impacted by BPD, she's also been enabled. Like "chicken and egg" it's hard to know what came first. It is probably a combination of both.

« Last Edit: October 11, 2021, 07:09:42 AM by Notwendy » Logged
karaokequeen

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« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2021, 09:24:18 AM »

I am so sorry you are going through this. This sounds like my sister. I used to work for her now-ex-husband when they were still married and he would come in to work on Mondays with a new horror story every week, a new want, a new demand from my sister that he could never satisfy. He was so beaten down every weekend by her unending, unrealistic needs. After learning more about BPD, I know that she was in deep pain too, and her ex was taking it all on as his own.

This was 20 years ago, so I can give you some perspective. The dog she wanted ended up being given to someone else because she couldn't deal with it after the second child, my niece, was born. Her first child, my nephew, now barely speaks to her. My niece tries to keep a relationship with her, but it's often to her own peril. Sometimes they don't talk either.

The two houses she had to have of course are long gone. Same with the car and the minivan that she didn't want and was realllllly mad her ex suggested it but then did want after she saw someone else driving one and was so mad he didn't get her that and he didn't read her mind that now she wanted one after all.

The other material things they took loans out on have resulted in them both having terrible credit. They both live in apartments now, separately, of course.

I tell you these things because 20 years of perspective can show you what matters. My sister's wants were not real wants - they were trying to fill her emotional hole. I feel very sad for them both, trying to do that, and never succeeding. Have you tried therapy? Boundaries are the key. They are hard, but only in the short term. In the long term, they could save your marriage, or at least save your sanity.
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mitten
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« Reply #29 on: October 11, 2021, 11:54:38 AM »

This sounds like my sister. I used to work for her now-ex-husband when they were still married and he would come in to work on Mondays with a new horror story every week, a new want, a new demand from my sister that he could never satisfy. He was so beaten down every weekend by her unending, unrealistic needs.


This is some great insight looking back after 20 years. Thanks for sharing.  This makes me think that work was probably a sanctuary for him.  I know I don't always look forward to the weekends like I used to.  Sometimes work is easier...
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