Designated villain --- again.

[Our abuse recovery guide]

We had a meeting with BPD mother's caretaker team leader about what her needs were and the subject of assisted living was raised. She doesn't want to go to assisted living, and her "reason" to avoid it was to declare she was moving near me. So when she raised the topic, I said no.

What followed was awful. There really was no other way to have this go differently. She demanded a reason. Of course I didn't want to steer the conversation away from the topic and said something vague to which she insisted it had to be my fault, came out with the usual cruel insults and threatened to make someone else power of attorney.

The rest of the conversation was between everyone else. She didn't speak to me the rest of the time.

What is interesting is how she has resolved this for herself. I know it has to be upsetting to think your own children don't want you near them. I would be sad to think this too. But she doesn't connect this to her own behavior. Even when I am nice to her, she's not happy with what I do. The only way to avoid her snapping and being verbally abusive is to be completely passive with her, say yes to anything she asks, and let her treat me however she wants. This is one reason I can not have any kind of mutually cooperative relationship with her.

She can't consider her part in this, so her conclusion is that she's saying I am mentally unbalanced. She's done that before. She's also said " It's got nothing to do with me" - ie, she's completely fine and I am the problem. This is how she has processed our relationship ( and probably others as well) but it's so eerie to see her do this.

Emotionally, this was horrible. I said very little in response to the hurtful comments as it would have only added fuel to the drama. And it would have been useless. However, the other choice - which was to say yes - would have been a set up for this kind of interaction on a frequent basis any time I said no to her requests.

I did respond with as much compassion as I could. I told her I would be willing to remain POA and visit her when possible but understand if she wished to choose someone else. I told her I thought she has a great medical team and that I would be in contact with them if she wished. She didn't answer.

She did promise to go to assisted living near me, but I know that's another set up because she hasn't seriously looked at any of them.

I do feel sad for her. She does want to see the grandchildren but they are grown and out of the house. When I do get to see them, it's our family time. When we have visited her, it's tense and the focus is on her needs. We did make efforts to see her, not as frequently as she'd have wanted but we tried, until the pandemic. I visited her a few months ago, and it was the same, I was fighting back tears most of the time around her.

My husband has seen me try many times to be good to my parents and he's also seen the emotional effect of being around them on me. He has said many times I should not feel bad about my decision.  I didn't sleep well after this meeting. Somehow, I still feel I have failed in some way, and failed to fulfill my obligations to a parent. Logically this isn't the case, even major religions don't insist on a child tolerating emotional or physical abuse from a parent. But I also realize now I was raised to do just that- wait on my mother's needs like a servant, and say nothing to verbal or emotional abuse.

She's not speaking to me at the moment.  Considering the patterns- eventually she comes around, pretending nothing happened or for another round of how awful I am.

I know you all here get it.




 

[Notwendy]

We had a meeting with BPD mother's caretaker team leader about what her needs were and the subject of assisted living was raised. She doesn't want to go to assisted living, and her "reason" to avoid it was to declare she was moving near me. So when she raised the topic, I said no.

What followed was awful. There really was no other way to have this go differently. She demanded a reason. Of course I didn't want to steer the conversation away from the topic and said something vague to which she insisted it had to be my fault, came out with the usual cruel insults and threatened to make someone else power of attorney.

The rest of the conversation was between everyone else. She didn't speak to me the rest of the time.

What is interesting is how she has resolved this for herself. I know it has to be upsetting to think your own children don't want you near them. I would be sad to think this too. But she doesn't connect this to her own behavior. Even when I am nice to her, she's not happy with what I do. The only way to avoid her snapping and being verbally abusive is to be completely passive with her, say yes to anything she asks, and let her treat me however she wants. This is one reason I can not have any kind of mutually cooperative relationship with her.

She can't consider her part in this, so her conclusion is that she's saying I am mentally unbalanced. She's done that before. She's also said " It's got nothing to do with me" - ie, she's completely fine and I am the problem. This is how she has processed our relationship ( and probably others as well) but it's so eerie to see her do this.

Emotionally, this was horrible. I said very little in response to the hurtful comments as it would have only added fuel to the drama. And it would have been useless. However, the other choice - which was to say yes - would have been a set up for this kind of interaction on a frequent basis any time I said no to her requests.

I did respond with as much compassion as I could. I told her I would be willing to remain POA and visit her when possible but understand if she wished to choose someone else. I told her I thought she has a great medical team and that I would be in contact with them if she wished. She didn't answer.

She did promise to go to assisted living near me, but I know that's another set up because she hasn't seriously looked at any of them.

I do feel sad for her. She does want to see the grandchildren but they are grown and out of the house. When I do get to see them, it's our family time. When we have visited her, it's tense and the focus is on her needs. We did make efforts to see her, not as frequently as she'd have wanted but we tried, until the pandemic. I visited her a few months ago, and it was the same, I was fighting back tears most of the time around her.

My husband has seen me try many times to be good to my parents and he's also seen the emotional effect of being around them on me. He has said many times I should not feel bad about my decision.  I didn't sleep well after this meeting. Somehow, I still feel I have failed in some way, and failed to fulfill my obligations to a parent. Logically this isn't the case, even major religions don't insist on a child tolerating emotional or physical abuse from a parent. But I also realize now I was raised to do just that- wait on my mother's needs like a servant, and say nothing to verbal or emotional abuse.

She's not speaking to me at the moment.  Considering the patterns- eventually she comes around, pretending nothing happened or for another round of how awful I am.

I know you all here get it.




 

[zachira]

We get it here how badly it feels to be mistreated by your mother even though her behaviors are by now 100 percent predictable which does not take away the feelings of frustration and hurt. If it were anybody else, the way she behaved would likely not have the knife in the heart effect it has on you. My kind caring brother who was anoited since childhood to be my mother's caretaker was so badly abused by her when he got terminal cancer that the social services got involved. Is there any possibility of setting a boundary of only meeting with your mother's medical providers/caretakers without her present? Can you think of any new boundaries you might want to set? It seems that being alone with her is no longer safe for you because of the emotional toll it takes on you. My mother was a totally different person in front of people she wanted to look good in front of. Her ability to be this different person did deteriorate with age, and she showed more of her mean behaviors to others, particularly her caretakers. I do hope that soon your mother will have to go into some form of assisted living, which would allow you to always have somebody present when your are with her. I found that visiting with my mother in the dining room with the other residents was a lot safer than being alone with her in her room.

[HappyChappy]

Notwendy sounds like you know what’s going on here – be strong, you’re being reasonable.  Easy for me to say that standing outside all the emotional blackmail and pull push you describe.  My sister and I tried to get our BPD to admit to her behaviour recently, to help us grieve our father, you could see it was too much for her to admit and just made her go into overdrive on the BPD behaviour. I keep forgetting to walk away - she's doing you favour by not talking to you. Focus on your own needs whilst she's quiet. I bet you can wait it out longer than she can.

You know your mom is being unreasonable, we know, your husband knows – stay strong. I’m proud you’ve stuck to your boundaries, knowing how hard a BPD can attack them. Sending you hugs.

[Notwendy]

Hi Zachira-

Thanks for the suggestion. This was a group meeting and so - this went on and she was on her best behavior- so would likely have been worse had there not been other people there. I agree with that boundary- to not be alone with her and so I have been limiting how often that is.

I do recall how she treated my father when he was ill and I also called social services to see if I could intervene.

My mother was putting on her best show with the team. She did snap into mean when I said no and then quickly into "waif" " I just don't understand what is going on, I just can't think of a reason she'd say this, unless she just doesn't like me" to which I didn't respond. Eventually they were able to get her back on track to the discussion.

I have no idea what she'll decide but that will be between her and her care team.

I am glad you all get it here, because nobody else would believe it.

[Notwendy]

Hi HappyChappy- thanks, I know she'll never consider her behavior. It's still rough to deal with her reactions. However, I am glad I held the boundary. She was being manipulative. Still, when it's from a parent, it's not easy.

[Methuen]

Oh dear.  While this was 100 % predictable, you still did the right thing.  I get that you couldn’t sleep afterwards.  I’m still not sleeping, and the reason is 100% about my mom too. It’s ongoing for me.  It’s probably not going to end until she dies, so I wonder, “will I never have a good sleep again?”  But I admire that you did the most difficult thing, and spoke up at that team meeting with her present when she said her reason for not going to assisted living was because she was moving near you.  I get what a hard thing that must have been to do, so the fact that you did it makes you an amazing role model in my mind.  

Then there’s the aftermath.  Oh my.

I can relate to so much of what you shared.  My mom too has threatened to make someone else POA.  It’s aweful.  Then she told me she was changing her Will.  When they are hurting, the vindictiveness comes out like a snake bite.  Sudden and swift, painful and terrifying.

She can't consider her part in this, so her conclusion is that she's saying I am mentally unbalanced. She's done that before. She's also said " It's got nothing to do with me" - ie, she's completely fine and I am the problem.

I’ve been told this line of being mentally unbalanced too, but it was a long time ago.  It’s never left me.  Very unsettling.  She’s projecting her worst fear onto you, but she has no awareness of that.  Instead she says “she’s not the problem”.

You are right that this was a no win situation.  You did the only thing you could do.

I did respond with as much compassion as I could. I told her I would be willing to remain POA and visit her when possible but understand if she wished to choose someone else. I told her I thought she has a great medical team and that I would be in contact with them if she wished

. Great response  

But I also realize now I was raised to do just that- wait on my mother's needs like a servant, and say nothing to verbal or emotional abuse.

Absolutely.  We were raised to be their emotional caretakers. And are they ever skilled at this.  

I am assuming the health care team is fully aware of the family dynamic?  Were you able to debrief with any of them afterwards?

What are you doing to take extra special care of yourself today?

I am just so sorry for the pain of it all.  Not being alone with her is going to be important for quite some time.  

[madeline7]

Not Wendy,
Not only do we get it, the situation with my uBPDm mirrors yours in so many ways. Went through the same thing 2 years ago, my Mom finally agreed to go to an Assisted Living even though she thought one of her kids would take her in. This was her worst nightmare, since being a Borderline her greatest fear is abandonment and she has felt abandoned since moving there 2 years ago. Then covid hit and she has been more hermit and waif like since she couldn't act out to get us to see her, since the community didn't allow visitors. Of course there was some rages and lots of manipulation mixed in with the waif. It is exhausting.
And she tried going to the dining room initially and of course hated the other residents, so she self isolated before the pandemic. Now residents are allowed back in to the dining room and small groups can go to some activities, but she is firmly entrenched in her apartment, so visiting her with other people around is not possible.
Her short term memory is no longer good, and she doesn't remember why she is angry with me, but she remembers that she is angry.
The conversation ALWAYS either starts or goes back to why can't she live with one of her kids. We all tell her that we are now too old to take care of her (she falls frequently), and she has enough money for Assisted Living, but not for a caregiver in someone's home.
Even though she has been a nightmare of a mother, has left me out of family gatherings, has written me out of her will, I still have moments of despair that she is sitting alone in an unfamiliar apartment in Assisted Living. She has done quite a number on me, and I continue to vacillate between anger and sadness.

[Notwendy]

Thanks to all of you. You really do get it. This sums it up well:

Even though she has been a nightmare of a mother, has left me out of family gatherings, has written me out of her will, I still have moments of despair that she is sitting alone in an unfamiliar apartment in Assisted Living. She has done quite a number on me, and I continue to vacillate between anger and sadness.

It is very sad that my mother is alone in her elder years, even if it's due to her own behavior. And I feel I have also tried to find some way that this might work out differently but none of her children can tolerate how she treats us.

Her health care team knows what is going on and in fact, the way this went was as planned. Since she was using the excuse of moving near me as a way to avoid cooperating with them, it was necessary for me to tell her myself that this was not going to be a workable situation so they could them make their recommendations.

Had I agreed, I would then be without their support for her as they would be too far away. She is less cooperative with me than with them.

Another reason for not agreeing to this is that she's started to accuse the people helping her of elder abuse. It's hard to know what has happened, but if they are stern with her, it might be for her own good or because she's verbally abusing them. Of course nothing justifies being cruel to an elderly person but I also don't know if it was what really happened or how she perceived it.

For instance she said a nurse in the emergency room at a visit a while back was "mean to her and pushed her so hard on the bed she hurt her". But an uncooperative elderly person who is trying to get off the bed on her own ( rather than wait for assistance ) is at risk for a fall and injury. I can imagine my mother trying to get down and the nurse pushing her back on the bed so she doesn't fall. I know the nurse didn't hurt her- there were no bruises or injuries, but if she had to act quickly and firmly, she did what she had to do. I don't think the nurse was abusive to her. I did hear from the person who accompanied her that she was verbally blessing out the nurse. She has also said that her doctor has been neglectful and I know that isn't true.

Being at a distance from her, she has no way of accusing me of elder abuse. I could tell she was baiting me during the session in order to get me to say something nasty back- but I didn't do that. I don't think this would be any different if she were nearby- and I don't want to risk being accused elder abuse if she gets upset with me. One more reason to not be alone with her, ever, as then she can make any accusation she wants to.

[Couper]

Even though she has been a nightmare of a mother, has left me out of family gatherings, has written me out of her will, I still have moments of despair that she is sitting alone in an unfamiliar apartment in Assisted Living. She has done quite a number on me, and I continue to vacillate between anger and sadness.

Therein lies the difference between yourself and your mother.  She is not capable of the sympathy you have expressed for her situation, especially in the shadow of what you're having to endure.  Having that strength of character is what makes you important to so many other people in your life (including here  ).  

[zachira]

There is a special strength in having compassion for a mother who does not have the capacity to love and respect her children.

[Woolspinner2000]

Notwendy,

How difficult that meeting sounds! And then all the things in your head and heart to deal with afterwards. I'm so sorry. I think in many ways my siblings and I were spared in having to deal with such horror stories by the fact that our uBPDm passed 16 days within her diagnosis of brain cancer. Among us we had anticipated how difficult she would be in the future. As it was, we had a taste of her uncooperative behaviour during her few days in the hospital.

Whether or not our parents have a PD, I believe we will always have a desire for the healthiness of wanting to be able to love and care for them. It's the need to allow ourselves to live whole and healthy that has us saying no, and it can perhaps be the most difficult no of our lives.

You did what was right for you, and in the end, for her as well. Wish it could feel better.

 
Wools

[Notwendy]

Thanks all. You are so kind to say this. With the concern of BPD being genetic, I also see they sometimes pair up with kind people, and maybe that is genetic too, because it sure seems to be a lot of kind people on these boards and the task is to not lean in that direction so much that it is detrimental to our own emotional well being.

Woolspinner said: I believe we will always have a desire for the healthiness of wanting to be able to love and care for them. It's the need to allow ourselves to live whole and healthy that has us saying no, and it can perhaps be the most difficult no of our lives.



So true. I had the opportunity to help my aging mother in law with her personal care. She was typically a loving mother. I am sure it was frustrating for her to need help with doing things as she was always doing things for other people. At one point, she snapped at me in the shower. I thought- who is this person who said this?- but this was typical behavior for an elderly person who was frustrated by being more dependent and it was just in the moment, not her regular self.

I am grateful I had the opportunity to do this for her. I recall thinking this is how "normal" feels. She had her quirks but was not mean spirited. I don't think she ever said a mean word to anyone. I realized this experience would not happen with my own mother. First of all, she'd not let me help her like that, and secondly, I would feel quite uneasy doing it- I don't like to be close to her or touch her or let her touch me. I also think she'd do more than snap at me- probably hurl insults if I did anything "wrong".

Yes, we do have a longing to show care to our parents, but sadly some can't perceive it.

[beatricex]

hi Notwendy,
I'm sorry.  I can really feel this catch 22 you are in.  Thanks for sharing here, and we do get it.

b

[Methuen]

Her health care team knows what is going on and in fact, the way this went was as planned. Since she was using the excuse of moving near me as a way to avoid cooperating with them, it was necessary for me to tell her myself that this was not going to be a workable situation so they could them make their recommendations.

This was a really great plan.  Keep us posted in how this plays out.  I am very interested in what she "chooses" moving forward, and how much the health care team can steer her.

I doubt that the emerg nurse was unprofessional, and I also very much doubt that the doctor has been neglectful.  Instead, when she doesn't get what she wants, or doesn't get to exert her will or control the situation, or is scared, she probably acts in a way that forces the professional to react to keep their control of the situation in the health care setting (including keeping her safe).  This is when they might get stern with her, or "help" her back onto the bed.  That stern voice might be a trigger from her past.  Once she's triggered, she feels and  believes she's being abused again.  This is exactly what happened with my mom during the driver's medical.  The medical didn't go well because she failed the cognitive test and the reaction time test.  When he told her she would have to do the driver's exam to keep her license, she probably started arguing or telling him the tests were unfair.  He had to react by repeating the news she didn't want to hear.  He has "got stern" with her in the past (when she was demanding to be released from hospital after a fall).  Then she tells me he was abusive.  I can speculate that something similar could happen between your mom and the emerg nurse and/or the doctor.  Thankfully, I think they are used to all kinds of behaviors from patients, have a thick skin, and don't think anything of it as they move on to the next patient.  Sadly, the emotional pain of the whole situation (setting the boundary for BPD mom) is left for us to deal with.

Hang in there.  I hope each day gets gradually a little better.  

It took courage to do what you did, and you and your mom will both be better off for it in the long run.

[Turkish]

 visited her a few months ago, and it was the same, I was fighting back tears most of the time around her.

This struck a chord with me. It shouldn't be like this in an ideal world. I remember breaking down in the Chem lab at work when my mom lived with us. I didn't know what to do.

Later, my ex wondered at me after my mom was taken to elder care by APS because in her culture, "mother is the name for God on the lips and hearts of little children," to quote the movie The Crow.

I glad that we have professional support here, but it's still very hard to deal with such things.

[Notwendy]

Methuen- my best guess is she won't choose. The idea of moving near me was her way of avoiding their suggestions. It was interesting because in the beginning, she was sounding cooperative and even acting enthusiastic about assisted living and then said - but one near me.

When I didn't agree, the conversation then went back to places near her. Then she began to make excuses about them.

You are correct, when people don't go along with what she wants, they are abusive, neglectful etc.  And when she doesn't get what she wants, she's not likely to cooperate with any other choice. If she's not happy with her doctor or health care team there, she's not going to be happy with them anywhere else.

Turkish, when I read your thread about brining your mother to live with you, I knew there wasn't any way I could manage that. Still, I commend you for trying- if you thought you could do that, it was a way to put your mind at ease ( as best as possible) to learn it was not a workable situation.

The way I learned this was to try as well- when my father was ill. For the short time I stayed with them to help out, my mother's behavior was very abusive. Still, I tried to suggest some assisted living places near me. There was a lot of drama over this. The theme was the same though- nothing I did or suggested or tried was good enough, they got angry at me, were verbally abusive. I didn't understand BPD or these kinds of dynamics and so I found myself second guessing myself, feeling as if I did something wrong, and feeling rejected by my father. Unfortunately, I had to limit the visits. I could not stay in their house as my mother would scream at me and wake up screaming in the middle of the night and nobody could sleep. In addition, I had my own family but that didn't matter to them.

After he died, my mother went through similar behaviors. She disowned me, made someone else POA, told her family I was emotionally disordered and refused to let me have any of my father's sentimental items. What confused me is that I didn't know if this was his idea or hers. She then changed her mind.

I knew then that this was not a workable situation. Fortunately she let it go for a while. The pandemic also stopped it for a while. It was safer for her to be at home. As long as she was able to manage at home, there was no reason for her to do anything else. But as she got older, people started suggesting a retirement/assisted living community and wondering why she didn't choose that. But she never wanted to do that, and I know that because of the refusals- none were good enough- they went through when I tried to suggest one for my parents.

This is who she is and it's sad, but I know from trying to help before that whatever I do it won't be  enough and that she has no concern for my feelings. Saying no to her results in the same reaction- and so I know from trying that this is not something to try to manage. If she chooses to disown me again, that's her decision to make.

[karaokequeen]

Oh gosh, do we ever get it. I'm the villain with my sister right now. Because I am trying to enforce my boundaries and also hold her accountable, I am a cruel, sick person who has ruined her life and there is something very wrong with me. Those are almost verbatim the words she emailed before I blocked her. Oh right, there were some F bombs in there too. There's just no way to have a relationship with someone who simply cannot allow the other person to have needs or opinions. The moment I ask her to be accountable for anything or to consider my feelings in any way, she finds a way to turn it around and shut me down and say that I am a cruel person who is punishing her. There is absolutely no way to be a whole person with her. It's all about what need I can fill for her. The moment I have a complicated dimension, she's out of there. All I can do is placate and ignore my own feelings and validate her. It's the only way it ever keeps her in my life for any period of time. I have to completely deny my own self. I am feeling very done with all of this. So we definitely understand. Unfortunately.