Getting impatient with the process…

[thankful person]

Hi all, i have been on here about six months but only posting regularly a few weeks, i have found so much support and encouragement here so thank you. I have read the “stop caretaking” book and now halfway through “raising resilient children” by the same authors. I am finding it really good and feels a bit like therapy because I like how they keep saying I am important and very responsible to create the best life for my children despite the challenges. I don’t exactly know how yet as I’m only half way through, it’s the audio book but I don’t listen to it at home, only when I’m out. I know a few of you have been following my journey the last few weeks and given great advice, but I am disappointed in myself for not making things happen sooner. Things are generally calmer because I have stopped arguing with my wife, not sure why I had to hear that advice here before I thought of trying it but there it is… I am a results driven person and I wish there was a prescribed method for what I need to do… to stand up for myself and the children… I have goals including playing the piano, my daughter wearing the dress my mum bought (she no longer fits the first dress I was talking about… I failed   but has a new one), video calling my parents is also a massive one. I called them on my daughter’s  birthday but have hardly ever done this. My wife used to video call her mum with the first child all the time when I was working. At that time I never called my parents because all the time I wasn’t working my wife felt I should spend with her. She doesn’t like how excited my parents are to see the kids. I’m very disappointed in myself about this. Since second child arrived and me announcing I would send my mum photos against wife’s wishes, she has stopped calling her own mother! I feel like it’s because she doesn’t want me calling mine so she has sacrificed the relationship with her own mother. I know she can’t actually stop me but it’s hard to even ask permission let alone do these things without asking permission. And my general understanding is we should just get on with things and then deal with consequences of bpd reactions as best as possible, rather than ask permission. It’s never a good time but she would want to be asked if it’s a good time… and I’m rarely with the child when she’s not around. Another thing I don’t like is her always trying to get the child to hug and kiss her, she always said, children shouldn’t be forced to be affectionate towards their relatives! Which I agree with. But then that includes their parents. I don’t put pressure on my daughter like this and the result it she comes to me for affection out of choice and then my wife is jealous. I’ve even noticed that she is especially affectionate when my wife isn’t around and this is worrying, like she is starting to think her love for me has to be a secret. This is heartbreaking. I don’t know if there’s anything I can do about it, I don’t think it’s something we can have a conversation about without my wife getting angry and I don’t think it would achieve anything.

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[Notwendy]

This is a process, that for me, is progress over time. The behavioral patterns you have with your wife were there before you met her. I learned this through exploring issues in my own marriage that were similar patterns that I observed in my parents, even though we are different people. We match our partners emotionally in ways not only with BPD, and both people don't have to both be BPD. But while you believe ( and it's true in many ways) that you are the more emotionally stable one, there are aspects of you that made a match with your wife on an emotional/attraction level.

I also think for me to make the progress I did, it helped to have a counselor and a 12 step co-dependency sponsor point out to me the areas I needed to work on. We don't easily see them in ourselves and especially when the other person is our focus. Looking into our own family of origin isn't easy work. It's not to blame them but to see what behaviors we learned to cope in them, and which ones are not serving us well in our current relationships.

FOO work for me was obvious as the most difficult person I have dealt with is my BPD mother, but I also had to look at the patterns and role models of the other members of the family. Having two main role models, I didn't want to act like my mother. My father was the "normal" one for me. Yet, he was codependent and an enabler. How did we get attention and approval from him? By being co-dependent and enabling too. It helped keep the peace in the family. Nobody stood up to her, he didn't and we were not allowed to. I didn't know how to stand up for myself- I had to learn and I wanted to learn, not just for me but so my kids would know to do that too.

But it took overcoming fear. One of those fears is possibly losing the relationship. The other person may not like it. We can't change another person but once we start changing ourselves, the other person is set "off balance". The pattern has changed. Before you changed, the patterns between the two of you "fit". They were predictable. Maybe dysfunctional in ways, but familiar. And also possibly familiar because of your own family patterns growing up. Enabling felt "normal" to me. It was uncomfortable and scary to change, because it was no longer familiar.

The other person then has to decide to adjust, or they may decide that the relationship doesn't fit them and possibly not want to be in it. That's the scary part and it's a risk when one person changes. But if the relationship matters to them, then they would be motivated to adjust as well. Fortunately my H was committed to the marriage and adjusted. It's not as if we don't have our ups and downs like any other couple. I still have enabling tendencies, but I am more aware of them and when I choose to do that.

With my parents though, it was a loss. The requirement for their approval is complete compliance to my mother's wishes. You do what she says. Boundaries don't exist for her. But at one point I decided I needed to have boundaries. The result of that was that both parents became angry at me. The Karpman triangle was a strong bond between them- she as victim, my father as rescuer. If she was angry at me, so was he. But in the long run this was a gain. I gained boundaries, and learned to be more authentically who I am.

I struggled for a while over the idea that, if my relationship with him wasn't worth standing up for, what was it? But looking more closely, I realized the main issue was that somehow he didn't stand up for himself in the relationship. I understand that, it is very difficult to do with her. But he had to be able to stand up for himself before he would be able to stand up for anyone else. However, I don't blame him. He loved my mother and her emotional swings were terrifying. He wanted her to be happy. He had empathy for her unhappy times. I do too. Saying no to her results in her feeling very hurt and rejected. But saying yes to her all the time out of fear isn't in her best interest either.

The other side of this coin is that, after decades of enabling, my mother has been sheltered from learning her own emotional regulation. We all walk on eggshells around her and emotionally she's still fragile.  Saying no to her is very difficult, she pitches a fit. What if every time your toddler asked for sweets for dinner, you gave that to her, even though you knew it was not in her best interest to only eat sweets because you feared the toddler tantrum? Well, you'd have a larger child, who then would pitch a fit if they didn't get their way- because they knew it works for them. My mother is severely BPD. It's hard to know what contributed to this. Her difficult emotional swings or enabling them?

Changing the patterns in your relationship isn't a fast process. However, any change has to come from you. The enabling suits her and you are good at soothing her feelings and taking care of her. If you change, it may result in her distress- and this is hard on you. Actually, your soothing her is also a form of soothing her, because it's hard for you to see her upset. You can do it for your toddler though. You can say no to a toy or too many sweets and let her have a tantrum because you know it's in her best interest. But change isn't fast because you also don't want to pull the emotional caretaking away from your wife all at once. She needs to learn too. So for both of you, it's slow changes, let you both adjust to one at a time.

I know you are not interested in counseling at the moment, but I will say that having someone guide you, and support you in these changes does make it easier.  I still attend 12 step ACA groups, and there are co-dependency ones too. Many are online due to the pandemic. There is support here too, but to have someone point out your part in this, consistently, helps. Also change can be one step forward, two steps back sometimes. Don't be hard on yourself. They say in my groups "it's progress, not perfection"

Yes it's scary. Who are you to your wife? I know you want to be more than a provider, caretaker. When you place some of this back in her court, she may not like it at first but if she truly is invested in the marriage, she will adjust to her ability. She may not ever be capable of full emotional maturity, but you don't know what the result of your lessening the enabling is.

[thankful person]

Hi not Wendy,
Thank you as always for sharing your story and your advice. I know that I would benefit from therapy, which I’m not willing to do atm for the huge upset it would cause. But you and the others have been such an invaluable help and support to me, please don’t underestimate this. I think the hardest hurdle was the first time I stood up to her about sending mum the baby pictures and she said our relationship was over, for several months. I found this site shortly after that. I probably would have handled it better, knowing what I know now. But hopefully things will get easier. There is a lot going on here I know. Yesterday was not a good day. Today has been a much better day. I know there will be ups and downs and things are getting better. I think it goes in our favour that my wife is only 28, emotional maturity is supposed to peak at age 25 I heard so she is still very young, and I accept that I am also to blame for how bad things have got. I know not to hope to change her… but she is responding somewhat well to some of the changes I have slowly been making. It also helps that I have 20 years + experience working with children including those with extreme challenging behaviour, special needs, and children who have suffered abuse and teens with mental health issues. I feel that my wife craves being more emotionally healthy, but is certainly not about to choose therapy, but has spoken about attending church when we move house. I’m not religious but I said I would go to support her, a few times. I think it would be a positive thing for her and she really wants to get out there and make friends. She is very positive about the move and meeting new people. She has lost a lot of weight “in preparation” for this and has become much more healthy and although her spending on clothes has been excessive (she is always spending on something!) I understand that she is feeling more confident and also changing her style a bit. I think she is trying to “grow up” a bit and surely that can’t be bad… I think she sensed that I was going to put the new dress on our daughter yesterday. She asked me if I would get her up about twenty minutes before I was due to start online teaching. Then when I went in, she came in with the baby and they were all messing around and I had to hurry things up and then she stormed off with the baby saying I’d sent her away and then I didn’t dare put the dress on child. And I felt like a failure. But then today, I did put the dress on her and it was fine. And I sent mum pictures and she was very happy. So although it’s still controlling, I sense that my wife is getting that I’m taking the power back slowly and she is willing to concede a bit as long as it’s partly on her terms. And I’m ok with that because it’s still progress. Once I get back to playing the piano, she’ll probably start asking me to play the piano so she can feel it was her idea. I’m not ready to tackle that yet but just want the next few days to be calm. I sent my mum lots of other recent pictures and her mum too and I know she might see these on my phone but hopefully it’ll be ok, I don’t know how much she checks my phone, but I think she seems to have stopped saying that I shouldn’t take and send photos because she knows it’s not negotiable anymore.

[Notwendy]

It's good that you are seeing progress, and with boundaries that are working.

Again, it's a work in progress. There may be times where things are smoother than others but I think if you look back, you can see progress in yourself. You're the key to your own progress. You are right in that a major step that would rock the boat too much might exceed your own capacity to deal with. Boundaries don't work unless you are able to uphold them. If you can't do that, she just learns she can get you to back down. Yes, we all make errors as we learn but consistency is the key.

You can send pictures to your mother- that's a good boundary as you are able to keep it, and so she learns that this is non negotiable. If counseling results in a huge blow up that you are overwhelmed with, then, yes it may not be the time to start on this one. Progress may seem slow but remember, the patterns between you two have been going on for a while now, and fast changes are harder to manage than slow and steady.

Like any habit really. Think of weight loss. The person who makes a lot of changes right away is less likely to maintain the weight loss than someone who makes small adjustments over time. They may lose weight more slowly, but are more likely to keep it off as they have made healthy diet changes rather than large ones they can't stick to.
 

[thankful person]

Thanks not Wendy, you are right, as always. We are having a stressful time here due to issues with our house sale that are out of our hands, and I recognise that my wife is taking it out on me. I am not going for any more  big challenges this week, but I am starting to do little things like either say, “I’m just going to do something” (in the house), or just doing it without mention. These are still small steps towards independence because I now realise I had got to a point where I would ask her, “I’d like to put the bins out, is it a good time to do that?” And I now recognise that it was not healthy or helpful to our relationship. That’s why it was a big step to put the dress on the child, because previously I was always asking permission, “how about she wears this today?” And she would say, “no not today”, sometimes with a reason, sometimes not.

[formflier]

which I’m not willing to do atm for the huge upset it would cause. 

Tell us about the upset that happened last time you went to therapy. 

Best,

FF

[formflier]

I'm going to second the thoughts of others that this is a process...better to be long and slow than erratic.

Perhaps it would help you find victories if you split things up into categories.

1.  How I think and behave in the relationship.

2.  How the relationship seems to me.

3.  How my wife behaves in the relationship.


When one part is lagging...perhaps you can find victories in the other categories.

Just a thought...

Best,

FF

[thankful person]

Tell us about the upset that happened last time you went to therapy. 

Well I have not been to therapy since we first met, when I went to the gp so stressed out and was offered cbt which turned out to be not very helpful. I have explained before how it took my wife months to get over the fact of me sending my mother baby photos against her wishes. She said our relationship was over and acted the part too. She seems to have gotten over that mostly now. But for me to go to therapy, would be an even worse disrespecting of her wishes. Because she doesn’t want herself or our relationship to be talked about. Ironic that me talking about it here seems to be the first thing that’s actually helped.

1.  How I think and behave in the relationship.

2.  How the relationship seems to me.

3.  How my wife behaves in the relationship.

Thanks for your suggestions ff. I think often of how encouraging you all are here. That and the caretaking books.
1. I am becoming more assertive generally. I am listening to “raising resilient children with a borderline” on audible which helps because it models tone of voice etc too. She has a go at me for cuddling toddler too long and was taking it out on me for getting her up from her nap when she wanted to do it (because she had the baby and asked me to do it!) And I was so calm. I said if you continue talking to me in this raised harsh tone I will leave the room, because it was upsetting the child, and amazingly she stopped (not straight away but after a few minutes). We have had much stress on us and the relationship this week, with our house buyer pulling out and us not agreeing on what to do. But I have remained calm and not overwhelmed. The children are mostly too little to get what’s going on. But I am practising. The book is teaching me to be a good role model. Never before have I felt so important! I am making small changes by making my own decisions, whenever I have the urge to ask her permission to do something eg. Change my work schedule, ring my mother etc, I am doing certain things without her permission.
2. The relationship is up and down. Wife would probably tell you we fight all the time. But actually I have identified several incidents recently where I know I have prevented meltdowns and escalations due to validating and not arguing. Obviously it’s a challenge when she wants a quick sale to secure our dream home and I don’t want to lose £££s over it. It is one of the biggest challenges we have had to face as a couple. I can be proud of myself anyway. I don’t need her to agree, to know that we’re doing pretty well considering…
3. I am seeing a difference in her behaviour; though again I’m sure she would deny it… it is creating a more peaceful environment for us and the children.

I will keep slowly working on it all. I’ve come here at the right time. I feel stronger than ever despite the struggles. I have only recently decided that actually I do deserve to be happy. I am learning about self-compassion. This is motivating me hugely, along with my responsibilities as a parent, which is not just about caring for the children, but modelling being kind to yourself too.. I have decided to stop hating and punishing myself for breaking my ex’s heart seven years ago. The reason I fell in love with someone else is because I wasn’t happy with him, and even though he didn’t know it, he did have some responsibility there too. Not everything is always my fault.

[formflier]

But for me to go to therapy, would be an even worse disrespecting of her wishes.

So..has she explicitly threatened to do something if you went to therapy?

Ironic that me talking about it here seems to be the first thing that’s actually helped.

Perhaps it is ironic...  Most certainly it is insightful.

So...if you want more improvement in your relationship...given your observations...you should?


  Very proud of all the steps you are taking...and so glad you are seeing results you like!

Hug those little ones for us all!

Best,

FF

[thankful person]

Thanks FF,
Yes she has threatened to leave me if I sought therapy but I think it really means make my life difficult, withdraw all affection and physical contact, threaten to get in other people to have sex with and keep telling me she wants me to leave and I’m selfish for staying. This is how she responded when I put in place the boundary that I would be sending baby pics to mum. This was just before I came here and I knew nothing of how to handle it then. But I would expect a similar reaction, basically all to punish me. I’m not ruling out therapy forever, just saying it’s not a good time.. (see latest post)
As for more improvements, I will slowly keep pushing for what I want… it’s somehow like she realises it. She still sends me out of the room when she struggles getting comfy on the sofa… whilst I don’t like this, I now use it as an opportunity to go and do things and she is no longer complaining when I don’t come running back at her command.

[formflier]

How many of those threats did she follow through on?

Best,

FF

[thankful person]

How many of those threats did she follow through on?

She refused any physical contact with me for about three months over the baby pictures and refused to say she loved me, just kept saying we shouldn’t be together… if I rock the boat that’s what she’ll say. In my dreams I can foresee a time when I’m strong enough to handle it. I think that’s key… if they know we’re not bothered… then what’s the payoff? As dr Phil would say . I want the freedom to teach my children to play the piano (if they want to learn…) It’s a long term goal but I would feel I’ve “made it” if that ever were to happen, as I have been expressly forbidden from this since before they were even born.

[formflier]

 
So...two threats out of how many she actually took action on?  Do I have this right?

Best,

FF

[thankful person]

Yes that’s right. Back then she was speaking of getting new sex partners in the house, while I was out at work, and whilst she was caring for a young baby. I knew it sounded ridiculous, but it seemed so real at the time, and I think she did believe that she would do it. But she didn’t. I do not believe she has ever been unfaithful to me. Apparently when we first met online, she was prostituting herself for money, but to this day, along with various other stories of her past, I do not know if there’s any truth in this story.

[formflier]

  But she didn’t.

What are you going to do with this insight?

Best,

FF