How many "last straws" can you take?

[alterK]

My uPBDW is in the process of taking over part of our house, without my approval, to use as her private apartment. She knows I don’t really accept this. (I intend to do something to change the situation, but have decided to work on easier issues for the time being.) Today on the way to finding something I walked through one of “her” rooms and she said, “What are you doing up here?” I muttered something along the lines of “I live here!” but walked on and didn’t confront her. Inside, I was outraged!

She has hissy fits when I disagree with her or don’t do something she wants—not always, but often enough, maybe once or twice a week. She can get very nasty. Usually it’s something of not great consequence, and has nothing to do with ill will on my part. Most often it’s absent-mindedness, which I admit is getting a little worse as I get older, or just the kind of mishap that normally occurs when two people live together

Over the past year as I learn more about BPD I have taught myself  not to respond to these outbursts, or at least to respond minimally, to not confront her and to walk away, even though furious words may follow me. I’m about 90% successful at this by now.

I’ve read enough, in books and in forum posts here, learned enough in therapy, to understand that this is the kind of issue SO’s of BPD people often struggle with. I know that when these things happen she is much more upset than I am. She feels dissed, betrayed, invaded. She is really distressed at these relatively small things that at most deserve a “Huh? How come?” or could just as easily be ignored. For her it’s a sad way to live, the other side of the coin of “walking on eggshells.”

Still, no matter how well I control my outer reactions, I can’t help getting angry inside. I think, “This is it! I am done taking this s—t! I am going to tell her if she can’t stop this she’ll have to move out!” Etc. Etc. After an hour or so I calm down.

But how many of these can you take? Is there any way to get them to at least happen less frequently? It’s impossible to live with someone and toady to them all the time, always agree with them and always remember to do everything they want. I know I can’t make her change her behavior. Yet I am not ready to divorce her, and I don’t want to give her ultimatums, don’t want to say “Stop that, or our marriage is over!”

I understand this is just another aspect of living on the roller coaster. But has anyone found any better ways of coping, other than just trying to talk yourself down internally and hoping you’ll be better prepared when it happens again? How do you know when it really is the last straw, when surviving emotionally means you have to end the relationship?

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[formflier]

Hey..for what it's worth, my initial thought is that if you continue to behave as if it is a joint house (where you can go where you want)...it will likely be more effective than trying to convince your wife to change.

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

When my husband and I got together, a second marriage for me, and a fourth marriage for him—I saw the   , but they either all betrayed him, or were impossible women, and I believed him, knowing all but the first—I digress…

My little house that I built after my divorce would need to be expanded, and I was so accustomed to having things the way I wanted them, I insisted that we build him a studio/man cave of his own, where he could watch sports (and I wouldn’t have to hear the TV), have an upstairs bedroom with a bath, and a large space for whatever—which he has proceeded to fill up with bookcases, computers, high end stereo equipment, giant TV, Persian rugs, and stuff everywhere. Over 1000 square feet filled to the brim, replete with dust bunnies and cobwebs.

Best decision I ever made!

He will disappear in there for hours and I have peace and quiet, order and organization, and cleanliness in the house.

We sleep apart. He snores and I got tired of my sleep being wrecked by trying to sleep next to the sound effects. He refuses to have a sleep study, since it would involve not drinking alcohol at night, and often he will stay up to the wee hours reading.

So I’m a big fan of separate spaces. How that would work in a house where that wasn’t previously decided could be troubling. Would she be willing to give you separate rooms and not trespass?

[NotAHero]

Alter K

 Sounds like a power play more than anything. This is common in BPD. She is pushing your buttons either to get a reaction or just trying to control you.

 Problem is , if you let her do what she wants she will escalate. If you react out of resentment you lose ( no one can outlast BPD rage). Best if if you react slowly and wisely. Try ignoring first see if she forgets the whole thing. In that case she was just looking for a reaction ( benign case ).

 If she escalates when you ignore then that’s a power play. A more dangerous form. If that’s the case look for a way to make the situation a win for you. Validate but don’t agree. I know it’s hard I fail at it myself a lot but it’s the only way to slow or reverse the escalation.

[alterK]

Geographically, letting my W stay where she is won't work. It's the nicest part of the house and filled with my family's old furniture. Just not right that she should claim it for her own.

Beyond that, I think she is depressed, through she won't admit it. In her black and white way of thinking, she's decided that I'm not to be trusted. Therefore she puts up barriers, emotionally and physically, and then feels isolated. I've mentioned in other posts that she lost both her parents in the last year, as well as the volunteer job that occupied much of her time. The pandemic makes for even more isolation. She's over-eating--upset that she feels out of control, still slender, but she says her clothes no longer fit--another reason she won't go out.

She chooses safety and unhappiness over the standard risk-taking of participating in the world and in her marriage. She's constantly on edge, which is part of why every perceived transgression on my part is so upsetting to her. I am trying to make her feel safer with me, but that's kind of incompatible with me living a normal life, going out and doing things, seeing friends, etc.

So I may be fighting a losing battle. Sorry if I sound a little disorganized. I guess I might have to admit that she is in control. I have gotten so involved in trying to avoid negativity and hostility and in calming myself when bad things happen, that I may be giving up too much that's important. Whenever I start to push, she threatens to leave. I don't want my marriage to break up, but maybe I have to take a few more risks myself.

[formflier]

Geographically, letting my W stay where she is won't work. 

So...do you really "let" your wife decide where she is or isn't in the house? 

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

So she’s staking out her turf by claiming the best spot in the house, and wants to isolate herself from you. If you put up resistance, she threatens to leave. Do you think she’s bluffing?

You think she’s depressed, dealing with grief, and no longer having a fulfilling volunteer opportunity. Evidence that supports this is her overeating, justifying her isolation by claiming her clothes no longer fit, and being quick to upset.

Isn’t part of your resentment feeling like you need to participate in her withdrawal from the world in order to gain her *trust*? Seems not to be working. What would happen if you decided to live a normal life, inviting her to accompany you, but continuing to go out by yourself should she refuse?

[formflier]

  What would happen if you decided to live a normal life, inviting her to accompany you, but continuing to go out by yourself should she refuse?

There seems to be a way forward here...make sure this is done with a lot of empathy and listening...but at the end of the day you make healthy choices and do healthy things.

Listen...what she is doing is offensive.   It's also just a true that "being offended" is likely going to feed the dysfunction. 


Being "offended" is going to be in conflict with showing empathy.

Any ideas on how you can move from "offended" to "empathetic"?

Best,

FF

[alterK]

"There seems to be a way forward here...make sure this is done with a lot of empathy and listening..."

All of your replies encourage me to be more assertive. For which, thanks! I have actually invited my W to come out with me often, but so far she has refused. She won't go out to eat because she thinks she's overweight, and she's afraid to eat in an indoor restaurant . Not interested in going hiking, even through there are nice trails in our area. Etc, etc. This could be part of her depression, or could have to do with her feelings about spending time with me.

She has threatened more than once to move out if I move back into the part of the house she is occupying. My decision is whether I care to live like this for the rest of my life, or roll the dice and try to improve things. I'm thinking out loud here. Most of us on this forum have been through divorces, and even with a prenup it ain't fun. On the other hand, you get to a point where there is no way to improve things without taking chances.

I believe my W is a victim of her black and white thinking. When she's upset with me, the person who treated her kindly and helped her when she needed it vanishes, and she sees only the inconsiderate villain. The transition can be instantaneous. Her coping abilities are at a low point, generally. Because she has allowed her fear to control her, she lives behind walls. Then she feels unloved, lonely, has even less ability to cope, has physical symptoms like headaches and various other aches and pains.

So I'll have to tread carefully, try to anticipate her responses, and be ready to act in a way that doesn't escalate the situation and leaves doors open for her. Hm! Whether this will be something I can do, remains to be seen...

[formflier]

She has threatened more than once to move out if I move back into the part of the house she is occupying. My decision is whether I care to live like this for the rest of my life

, or roll the dice and try to improve things.

What is the difference in "moving back in"..."passing through"..."using"...etc etc?  I would encourage you NOT to do things that appear permanent like moving furniture or your stuff in there...and also just as strongly I would recommend that you take yourself to those parts of the house regularly and "hang out". 


 

I believe my W is a victim of her black and white thinking.

It's important to be on the lookout for black/white thinking.  Personally I prefer "dichotomous" thinking...rather than black and white, although I think they are really same think. 

It's important to look out for that in your own thinking (perhaps more so than in others thinking)...because you can do something about it.

Can I challenge you to read your last post and identify places where YOUR  THINKING...limited yourself to two options...when really there are more.

So I'll have to tread carefully, try to anticipate her responses, and be ready to act in a way that doesn't escalate the situation and leaves doors open for her. Hm! Whether this will be something I can do, remains to be seen...

It's not that I disagree with your statements above..but words matter...words affect you attitude...your wife will realize that you are "being careful" around her...do you think she will appreciate that?

How about "tread wisely...prepare myself for bad responses...and be ready to NOT engage in drama, while leaving the door open to connection."

Can you see how my version is more than just "nuance difference"...?

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I love the concept of “leaving doors open for her”—it’s like a dance. You take a step toward her, she backs away, you retreat, then you take a very small step in her direction, retreat, pause…repeat…again and again…

It’s what I do with frightened animals. The goal being to have them following me around.    Sometimes I’m content when they only make eye contact with me.

[alterK]

Thanks again for the thoughtful responses. Yes, FF, I see what you mean by how easy it is to fall into extreme kind of thinking. Got to be careful of that!

However, I don't agree with your idea of gradually moving into the space my W considers "hers." My original question in this thread had to do with her nasty remarks, which come with little provocation on almost any topic, how fatiguing it is for me to endure these, and the question of how better to deal with them. My moving into "her" space--sitting and reading where I used to, getting something from a cabinet, whatever--regularly provokes such remarks. So it adds to my unpleasantness quotient. I think it comes close to passive-aggressiveness, and it doesn't make enough progress to warrant the stress.

I really think I will have to get her to sit down with me and try to make her understand both problems: her b---y remarks, and the issue of territory. Cat's comparison with a frightened animal is apt. I believe I am dealing with a person who is fundamentally frightened, and need always to keep that in mind.  How to put that awareness into practice, though, ain't easy. You can get bitten even if you are careful!

[formflier]

I really think I will have to get her to sit down with me and try to make her understand both problems: her b---y remarks, and the issue of territory. Cat's comparison with a frightened animal is apt.  

Batters up...the fast ball is about to be pitched.

Cat Familiar...I would guess you have had lots of success getting frightened animals to "sit down" with you and rationally discuss their behavior.  Looks like a great time to share a story or two...

There's the pitch...the swing...and...

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

Batters up...the fast ball is about to be pitched.

There's the pitch...the swing...and...

The miss…?

When you have established patterns with humans or animals, it’s difficult to shake up the routine.

If I were alterK, what I might do is say, “I feel like it would do me good to go for a short walk/hike on this beautiful day. I’d love to have your company.”

Then go, either with or without her.

The next day, “I’m going to get a salad at that great lunch place. It would be so nice if you’d come with me.”

The following day, “Do you want to go to the bookstore/museum/art gallery? I’m going in two hours.”

Rinse, repeat.

I even have to use my “scared animal” techniques on my husband. I cannot imagine what led to some peculiar BPD anomalies, but when he’s in the kitchen, if I approach him too quickly, he will often flinch or jump away.

It’s hard not to take this personally when I just wanted to give him a hug. To his perception, that I’m approaching him so quickly and directly must mean that he’s in my way, he’s done something *wrong*, I’m angry with him, or who the f* knows?

So I have to set aside any presumptions of what his behavior means and tailor my approach accordingly. Fortunately this is just an occasional behavior, but it certainly can catch me off guard.

[Cat Familiar]

BTW, some scared animals took years to trust me and one never did, though he tolerated me his whole life.

[formflier]

What are your thoughts on how to "live" in the entire house, without appearing "passive aggressive".

Here is the thing...you are not in agreement with your wife about this, you are not hiding your feelings about the situation...so I'm struggling to see how "passive aggressive" fits or is a concern.

Now...if you made an agreement with your wife to leave her by herself in a room, yet then kept showing up...not that would be passive aggressive...because instead of openly addressing your feelings and disagreements...you are doing the opposite of your agreement...passively challenging you agreement.

Best,

FF