Do I make amends with my bpdM or go no contact?

[beatricex]

hi wmm,
I am sending you some good vibes, and wishing you well at your new job this week. 

((wmm)

Forget the past.  It's easy to say this, and trust me I know because I still wake up with anxiety about stuff I've done (perceive I have done wrong) in the middle of the night.  It must be triggered by dreams or nightmares to be more specific.

I get it.

We have just been programmed, that's all, we are not wrong or bad to react to our BPD mothers like we do.  We are so used to being judged, and we are so willing to say "I screwed up" I know, but you haven't.

Give yourself permission to have these feelings, let the anxiety wash over you, then let it go.  That's what to do with it, let it go.  It's OK.  It's going to be OK.

b

[Flossy]

Beatrix x
Maybe best not to include the sentence "forget the past". That is demeaning, devaluating and basically impossible.

The rest of your advise is great. But, as you know, most of us have severe trauma at the least or PTSD from dealing with this.

It's more realistic and helpful to recognise that as something the OP is going to have to learn about and deal with every single day of the rest of their life.

 None of us will ever forget the past and we will be forever changed by it.

It is do-able and that is a blessing.

[Couscous]

Wmm,

Perhaps an option would be for you to go on a temporary relationship hiatus with your mother, which you could just keep extending as needed. That’s what I did just over a year ago, and it was so much easier for me to do that than officially going NC with her — which I could not imagine doing at the time. I also went no contact with one uBPD brother and low contact with my enabler sister at about the same time. Then I added my other uBPD brother to the NC list, and lastly, I have just gone very low contact and have enacted an emotional cut-off with my enabler father. I seemed to have needed a period of gradually weaning myself off of frequent contact with my family, and going very low contact has made such a difference in my life.

[beatricex]

Just to clarify, my comment to "forget the past" was in regards to your statement wmm, where you said "I think I messed up."  Not in general to your past (Flossy).  Sorry if that sounded dismissive, but what I meant was try not to ruminate on this.

wmm, you also said "What kind of messed up family gets mad at someone for calling 911 when a parent threatens suicide?"  exactly

Ruminating, or thinking about how we've done something wrong, over and over to the point of it causing us anxiety does not help (I don't think).  There are techniques I learned by going through therapy to actually stop this destructive thought process.  Tapping is one, happy to share more if you're interested.

b

[zachira]

How do we heal from the past? I found EMDR therapy extremely helpful in letting go of past events that upset me and in moving forward. Yes, it is the past and we will always be overwhelmed at times by being abused and in the ways our lives have been permanently impacted. For example, I have never had any children and it is too late now. The journey of healing is a long and rewarding one. You have just begun to own your feelings and let your family members own theirs. Your impaired family members do not likely have the capacity to own the feelings that they dump on you. With time and different ways you find to heal, you will become more able to deal with the feelings that seem overwhelming in the moment, and overall will continue to feel more grounded and rewarded for choosing to make self care a number one priority.  

[wmm]

This group has helped me so much.

My father texted me again updating me about my mom. I've told him about four times not to talk to me about my mom but he keeps doing it. What should I do?

[Couscous]

This group has helped me so much.

My father texted me again updating me about my mom. I've told him about four times not to talk to me about my mom but he keeps doing it. What should I do?

I had to block my dad on my phone for a couple of weeks and explained that I just wasn’t in the mood to text or talk about the “hot topic”, although he could still contact me via email. I also explained that I was no longer willing to discuss the “hot topic” with him because this matter was between me and uBPD brother. He then sneakily called me from another phone number that I didn’t recognize, and I made the mistake of answering. Fortunately the call was cut short, so I followed up over text (I really should have emailed), and very firmly explained that his “peacemaking” was making the situation worse, and that I would no longer discuss the subject with him. He then lashed out at me and was “hurt” because I didn’t appreciate his efforts, but I didn’t back down. I haven’t heard from in for over a week now, so I think that did the trick. Good luck to you.

[wmm]

I got a phone call from one of my mother's doctors saying that she didn't show up for her appointment. My mother must have given them my number in order to get attention from me. This is a new doctor so this would have been a recent thing. I texted my father and asked him why she had given the doctor my number. I also told him that I start a new position tomorrow and that I was too stressed out to handle her problems. I'm starting to think that my mother is trying to lose weight on purpose in order to get attention. I wonder this because she made up that my sister had covid and was in the ICU even though my sister didn't have covid. I just want to be left alone. I'm very stressed about starting my new position tomorrow and having to leave my old job (I was covering a maternity leave). My father doesn't know about my mother's lie about my sister. I'm guessing I shouldn't say anything and stay out of it but I want her to stop and I want my dad to stop texting me about her health. He told me they said she didn't have cancer after I told him to stop telling me about my mom many times. What should I do? I was thinking about blocking my dad but I was also hoping he could deal with my mom.

[Flossy]

...wmm
We can get stuck in "thinking and hoping" until we are exhausted. Which you already are.

Is it time to "do" = take action. Block your father for a set period of time?
Highlight your calendar for a date to unblock him?
Set up an alert in your phone to unblock him?

Let him know by text that you are blocking his number (better than saying blocking him) for a short while and that your phone (better than saying you) will be available for texting or talking again on ...(set date).

Make it a week or two weeks?

I promise you will find strength in taking action after putting off blocking him for weeks now. I promise you are not going to "get into trouble".  The worst they can do is tell you  that you are bad and we all know you are not.
So you can tell them that is just simply BS and they need to get used to being blocked if they dont behave.

Give it a try? You can do it. It will only be scary the first time. You will get better at it and stronger each time.

[wmm]

Flossy, this is a good suggestion. I'll do this. My father had no idea that my mother had put my number as a contact and that she had missed her appointment. I blocked the doctor's number. She's seeing many specialists and I'm worried that she put me as a contact for other ones too. Does anyone have any suggestions for how I should deal with this or if I should. It was triggering get the phone call and I don't want to get anymore. I'm certain that she did this on purpose because she didn't put my father as a contact even though he lives with her. Should I call her doctor's office and ask them to take me off as a contact. I would but I'm not sure if this is getting too involved with her and letting her know that she's bothering me. I just don't want to receive these phone calls anymore. What should I do?

[zachira]

You really can't prevent your mother from giving your phone number out as a contact or probably finding out a new number if you decide to change it. It is a big challenge to limit how much space your family members rent in your head when they are clearly using Fog to make you feel guilty for setting healthy necessary boundaries with them. When you get phone calls about your mother, you can choose to block the calls and/or tell the person not to call you. It might work best to just block these numbers, as the more interactions you have with the people who are involved with your mother, the more triggering it can be. Probably one of the most painful parts of dealing with dysfunctional family members is how we have to set boundaries with people who are generally nice people and who aren't likely to understand why we can't be involved with our parent's care.

[beatricex]

wmm,
This is the worst, being "made" to feel like you "must" be responsible for your mother.   I have had a lot of grief myself over Mom's health issues in the past year.  Thing is I'm now having my own which she doesn't give a flying fig about, so why should I care about hers?  Most disturbing is that my cortisol is now high, from Stress - no kidding.  No one ever told me that years of trauma and drama and worry would have a physical impact on my body.  But, it does.  If you are younger this might not concen you (and it didn't I, I thought I was invincible when I was younger), but then there's this actual real physical manifestation of the anxiety now that I can't ignore.

I am at the point of NC with both my parents.

The phone call from her doctor reminded me of a similiar thing that happened to my husband and I.  Our number is on their dog's tag.  A few times in the past year we got panicked phone calls "we have your dog, come get her PLEASE?"  My husband just blocked those people, who are likely her neighbors.  Their number is ALSO on the tag.  So, your mom has another number on her paperwork, most likely.  You are not the only person who Must be responsible for her. 

Oh and a few times my mom has also mentioned that the dog will likely be "shot" by the next door neighbor who is a rancher.  The dog apparently likes to chase his cows.  Again, not my problem, do they know what a tie out is?  This is my Dad's dog and he loves it by the way.  At times I have wondered if my mom isn't just setting it free...

b

[Methuen]

Hopefully another Dr does not call you,  but if they do, you could kindly explain that your mother did not discuss you being a contact with you, and you are not available to do that.  Then they will know to take you off the contact  list.

Is it possible that one reason  your dad told you your mom doesn’t have cancer, is to remove that piece of her drama from the plate?  One less thing for you to worry or feel guilty about?  

It sounds  to me like your dad doesn’t understand the true level of your distress  surrounding your mom.  You truly aren’t well wnough to hear anything about her right now.  You just need to look after your own well being.

I hope your first day at your new job tomorrow is ok.  Remember that it will take time to get to know these new kids, and to learn what strategies work.  I’m hoping there will be a team of people including the resource teacher and school counsellor as well as district support staff to support you in your new role.  You don’t have to do it all on your own.  Hopefully there is a team.  Let us know how it goes.

[wmm]

The thing about cortisol is really interesting. How do you get that tested? Mine is probably really high. I was diagnosed with anxiety but my mom is my biggest trigger. I've noticed that when I forget about her and everything my anxiety doesn't really seem to be there so I think it's more CPTSD. My father messaged me asking how my day was and once I responded he told me to talk to my mother and that she was planning on coming to my place soon. I told him I would lock the door and call the cops if she came and harassed me. My first day was ok. The staff seen pretty miserable but the kids are nice. I miss the staff at my old school. They were so nice and supportive. Luckily a lot of them contacted me today asking how my day was. I'm not at a level of closeness where I can talk to them about my family though. I'm going to block my dad now. Yesterday he seemed better so I didn't bother. I'm worried about my mom coming to my place now though.

[Flossy]

I'm going to block my dad now. Yesterday he seemed better so I didn't bother. I'm worried about my mom coming to my place now though.

Good. Perfect.

The worry and anxiety is because your body is producing a lot of adrenaline. You may have C PTSD and this is caused by/causes adrenaline bursts.

First up, you need to burn any adrenaline that has been burst into your blood. You do this by either running or using the big muscles in your body if you cant face running. So even sitting on a chair and squeezing your thigh muscles over and over until you feel yourself relax will burn the adrenaline.

Secondly, if you ever talk to your doctor about PTSD or anxiety you need to discuss what is called an SNRI. This is a noradrenaline reuptake inhibitor, not an SSRI which is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. SNRI's work better for PTSD and adrenaline problems. Your doctor will decide if that is right for you.

Make a plan and put it near the door for if your mum does ever turn up. Plans written and put up where you need them will give you the knowledge that you have steps prepared that you have thought of when it wasn't an emergency. Just a short note with bullet points on what you will do and what you wont do.

[beatricex]

hi wmm,
Thanks for checking back about your first day on the new job.  You sound more centered today.

I use the home stress test made by everlywell.com

Basically, they send you the kit, you collect some saliva samples 4 times a day, send it back and get results in a week or so.

I actually was just checking my hormone levels, the cortisol was part of the panel for that (I think it's called the women's health test).  I have also used this home kit to check my thyroid levels and compared it to what my Dr's office finds.  It's spot on as far as I can tell.  BTW, I think if you asked your Dr. to check your cortisol, cause you suspected it might be high, I'm sure they would do it too.

Ok, well good luck with your Dad and whatever you decide, no decision has to be permanent, so you can always make a different decision later.   Take care of you this week.
b

[wmm]

My mother just came here and I freaked out and called the police. I'm lying in bed with a blanket of me because I'm in shock and really cold.

I was in my car, which is at the back of the house, because I had just gotten back from doing errands. I had not idea that my mom  was coming. She drove up and parked right beside me. I dialed 911 because I was afraid and didn't know if she was going to be mad but then hung up right away. She wasn't yelling at me. She brought me starbucks, a plant, and a letter. She asked me to roll down the window and talk to her. I told her I wouldn't and tried to not look at her. I locked my door. She asked me to tell her when I was going to talk to her and I told her I didn't know. I told her she had to leave. My mom kept repeating that I was being so cruel and that my dad was upset. She didn't say it in a mean voice. She said it like she was sad, which I realize now was very manipulative. I tried starting my car but it wouldn't start. She walked over to my door and left the plant, a note, and a letter in front of my door. My fiance is going to get rid of it. The police called me back and said they would have to come because I called. I told them it wasn't necessary but they told me they had to. I became so afraid that my family was going to get mad at me for calling the police and that my mom would get upset. I was finally able to start my car and drove away to the front of the house beside me. The police told me I couldn't drive any further because they were coming to talk to me. I stayed on the phone with the police and looked behind me to see when my mom's car drove out. Eventually, I saw her car and she left. The operator asked me to describe my mom's car. Two police cars came. One stopped in front of me and they asked me what happened. The other one drove after my mom and stopped her on the road. I started crying because I didn't want my mom to know that I had called the police because she would make me look bad to the rest of my family. I texted my dad and told him what happened so that he would hear my side of the story. He didn't get back to me and I've blocked him now until I calm down. The police asked me if she had ever been violent with me and I lied and said no. I said no because I didn't want my family to find out I had said that and get more mad at me. I realize now that that was the wrong thing to do. I told the officer that she was emotionally and psychologically abusive and that she had been violent with other people. He told me that it sounded like something that I needed to talk to my mother and father about to figure out. I told him that I just wanted her to leave me alone. The officer ended up leaving. My fiance luckily came home soon after that (he had gone camping the night before). I stayed in my car for a while because I was afraid to come out even though logically I knew that she was gone. I didn't feel safe. My fiance sat in the car for a bit with me while I cried. Eventually, I got out with him and went into the house and locked the door. I was so afraid while I walked from my car to my home. My feet are cold, I have cramps in my stomach, I'm thirsty, and I have a headache. I know I'm in shock. I don't know what to do with myself. I just want her to leave me alone. Her voice and abusive words are engrained in my head. I kept thinking that I shouldn't act like the victim because that's what my mom used to say to me when I would get upset. I've done so many years of therapy but she still gets in my head. Any ideas for what I should do? My mother is still blocked on my phone. I blocked my younger sister and my father. My brother is already blocked because he got mad at me before for calling 911 when my mother was suicidal. I just want her to leave me alone. I don't know what to do to get her to stop. How did you guys explain to your families that you were going no contact? I haven't actually told them that. I've just said that I'm not ready to talk and I don't know when I will be. I feel sick to my stomach.

[Couscous]

Ugh…your mom completely ambushed you there. Your reaction is completely to be expected. I hope you can find something to do to cheer yourself a up a bit and to take your mind of off things — like watching a comedy show, for instance.

It really sounds like you could use some additional support right now. I encourage you to seek out the help of a therapist who has experience with narcissistic abuse, or domestic abuse and complex trauma or PTSD. Someone who really gets what you’re dealing with and who can help you with setting limits on contact with your family. You may want to check out Dr Karyl Mcbride’s website for her referral list of therapists who have done her training and see if there are any in your area.

Hope you are able to feel bit better soon! 

[wmm]

For those of you who went NC what did you say to your family members to let them know and did you tell it to the pwbpd and if not who?

[beatricex]

hi wmm,
The first time I went no contact I did let my parents know why in an email.  I said that I did not want to be the favorite because implied is I would have to gang up on others in the family and I could not do that.  This was after a Christmas where my mom sent out what I call  the F--k you letter.  It actually started out "F--k you all!"  It was sent to all of us adult kids and it detailed why she was upset with everyone (they didn't have good excuses for missing Christmas at her house) except me.  I apparently had a good excuse.  Believe it or not, I was not planning on going to Mom's for Christmas either, but I believe I was stuck in New Hampshire for work over Christmas that year, so because I was physically not in her state and working, I had a "good excuse."

That was 14 years ago.  I stayed no contact for 7 years.

7 years ago, I resumed contact.  I am now quietly going no contact again.  I did speak to my oldest brother (8 hour phone call, mostly not about our mother but how he hates his wife), so she has an idea.  The convo with my brother, I initiated.  I said I don't want to take care of Mom when she's old (he assured me he would do it, which is hilarious cause he doesn't even answer his phone a lot of times and he's not physically close to where she lives). I also did text her to stop texting and emailing my husband and I that same week after a love bombing spurt.  Then my husband and I both blocked her on phones and email.  I didn't tell her I was blocking her, I just did it.  I blocked my oldest brother, my Dad and her actually, back in April.  The blocks only last 3 mos (Verizon) so I have to remember to reblock them every 3 mos.  Email, they are permanently blocked unless we remove it.  She came to the house once, with her dog and left a note from the both of them as if nothing ever happened.  I have 5 siblings and an uncle who talks to my Dad regularly (I am close to him too), so in an emergency, the others can get ahold of me.  Also, this doesn't stop them from just creating a new email address.
 

You can keep your reasons as short or as long as you feel necessary.  This article helped me a little.
https://queenbeeing.com/acon-explain-went-no-contact-narcissistic-parent/


b

[zachira]

I regret giving any kind of detailed explanation to family members as to why I went no contact or why I am considering going no contact with all of them. Their wiring is just so dysfunctional. They are all wired to protect the golden children and to blame the scapegoats. At some point, you might want to explore if any kind of restraining order would make things easier for you or just make things worse.

[Couscous]

I thought this video had some pretty good suggestions on how to go no contact: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=olqyOZnFRWM

[Notwendy]

It's not "normal" for adult children to keep a distance from their parents ( and our family dynamics are not normal). For my mother, there has to be some reason why her children don't spend more time with her. On her part, it can't possibly be anything to do with her, so she has to come up with something about me.

I have been described as a terrible child who broke her parents' heart by not visiting. In her words "not visiting at all" but that's not true. I did visit, but they were abusive to me during those times and so I had to keep a distance. Since this can't be her fault, it has to be mine.

It's scary what your mother did but one attempt is to get things back to where they were- get you back into your role. If you refuse, it might escalate or they may disconnect from you. Regardless, their story may be to blame it on you. This isn't easy- I think I have tried to be a good daughter, but that's not the way my BPD mother sees it.

[Couscous]

Notwendy,

While it may not be common to for adult children to distance themselves from their parents, it’s not completely unnatural. Even chimpanzees are known to challenge the alpha chimp, with violent consequences. So I guess we’re lucky that we’re not chimpanzees. 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229682-600-only-known-chimp-war-reveals-how-societies-splinter/

[Notwendy]

Yes, glad to not be a chimpanzee but they get to eat bananas all day and throw their dung at people looking at them in the Zoo, so maybe it's not so bad for them. 

[beatricex]

great video Couscous!

As far as what fallout you can expect.  All of the below happened to me:

1.  My BPD mother turned my oldest brother against me in the time I was no contact (7 years)
2.  I was not aware that my mom took that time to turn him and probably others against me until recently - boy was that an interesting outcome of my 8 hour phone call with my oldest brother, who I thought was neutral.  Nope, he's 100% team dysfunctional mommy (he actual thinks it's my Dad with the PD)
3.  Prepare for your mom to say things like this to anyone who knows you or the family "we don't know WHERE she is...she's estranged from the family" (implying of course that it's me with the mental illness).  BTW, Mom sent me birthday cards at my home address for those 7 years.  It was a bit of a stretch to say she didn't know where I was.  I got a facebook message from my childhood friend and my mom's ex best friend.  Both confirmed that the slandering of me behind my back was real and intense for those years.
4.  My uncle (not my Mom's brother, my Dad's) responded to my stating I was abused by my parents with hostility toward me.  For this reason, maybe don't mention "abuse" at all. 

I like neutral statements like "our relationship is toxic".  See how that doesn't cast blame?  Not "mom is mentally ill."  When I honestly told my oldest brother why I thought my Mom is mentally ill, listing all the reasons, he said pretty visciously "well...I Think ALL the people in this family are mentally ill - the Women anyway."  ouch

OK, so now I know how he feels.  Guess I should add that he said that about me (I'm mentally ill) after he stated several times he felt like killing his wife.  Wow.  And I'm the mentally ill one?  I had to talk him off that cliff in our convo, I suggested "hey, how bout just get divorced?  you don't have to kill anyone"  This is why my oldest brother is also cut off, not just my BPD mom and enabling Dad.

Don't let them gaslight you, and stay strong wmm.  Let us know what you decide to do, if you like.

b

[Flossy]

wmm
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=examples+of+a+no+contact+letter&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Examples of how to write a No Contact letter.

Read a few and choose the one that fits best with you. Email it or text it. No extra explanation. Send a copy to the rest of your family. Do not explain further with them.

Eg: Keep it simple. Any other information you provide will be used against you. These people do not have. your best interests at heart. They do not think the way you think.

So do it this way and it will protect you the most.

Best wishes.

[wmm]

Thank you. This is all very helpful.

My sister contacted me this morning saying that my mom wanted to know if still wanted the wedding dress or not. I told her I didn't. This caught me off guard but I thought I got over it. I know that my mom did not need to ask me that. She knew that I didn't want it but she was just trying to contact me. I asked my sister not to relay any messages from my mother to me and then told her I needed some space and then blocked her. I told her I wasn't mad at her. I then went to do a course for my work and they played a very emotional video. The video was about how people can go through heavy things that others don't know about. I related to this very much, as I'm sure all of you could too. I didn't know that the course was going to be emotionally intensive. It completely caught me off guard and I had to leave because I felt like I was going to have a panic attack/break down in tears.

I like this NC letter but I'm not sure if threatening the legal action is too much.

"Date

To: John and Jane Doe
From: Mary Doe Smith and Robert Smith
Subject: No Contact

This letter is to inform you that as of the date noted above, we direct you to cease all forms of contact with us and with our children, Sissie and Bubba Smith. This includes telephone calls, texts, email or other electronic communication, letters, cards, gifts, and personal visits. This prohibition also includes messages of any kind delivered via other persons, such as other family members or friends.

We are prepared to take legal action if you refuse to respect our wishes for no contact with you.

Signed
            Mary Doe Smith
            Robert Smith"

I was thinking of sending it by email so that I have proof that she received it.

My mother has taken other people to court and has a lot of money to be able to hire a good lawyer. For example, she recently was going to take a manager of a restaurant to court because he said she couldn't have an extra napkin even though she had a tremor. She became upset with him and then he called her an "entitled old white woman". She contacted the human rights tribunal and they said she had a case against him based on discrimination due to disability, race, and age. I'm worried that if I threaten legal action she'd challenge me on it. At the same time, I want the police to take me seriously if she tries to come to my house again. Do you think threatening legal action is too much and did any of you threaten legal action?

[beatricex]

great questions wmm, and I'm glad you're thinking this out.

A few years back, when replying all to emails (I have a large family) I started adding the disclaimer "if you don't like what I'm saying then Block me."

I have no idea if this would hold up in court, but like you I worried about getting sued too.  Ever watch Judge Judy?  There's plenty of family spats that end up in court.  I like how she throws out all the "harrassement" ones though.

I never threatened any legal consequences because my BPD Mom is super good at working a system.  As an example, she gets free stuff from companies all the time.  If your mom is like mine, they have plenty of time to persue this (we don't), they have the energy to sustain a protracted fight (we don't), and they're sneakier.  Before going to battle, think about what "winning" would look like.

With my brother, it's obviously a no brainer, winning would mean he starts talking about killing me instead of his wife.  Not worth it.  Not going there, my goal is peace not to start a war with my estranged family.  In the conversation we had about our mother, I simply listened (without agreeing to what he said which was basically she's the best mom ever) and replied "Well, I guess I had a different experience than you." 

After the comments my brother made I also posted here about it, and someone suggested I read "the Gift of Fear" which I did.  That helped me immensely.  I think leaving it alone is sometimes the best option because as soon as one becomes the aggressor, it can really set an emotionally unstable person off, that otherwise would have been relatively harmless.

BTW, my Mom has plenty of flying monkeys other than my oldest brother.  That is just the best example I can point to and say "Ok, maybe it's time to walk away from this Entire family, because it's not worth it to me to "win".'

b

[wmm]

Beatricex, I completely get you.

At this point I'm not sure if sending another email or letter would be worth it. The only reason I would do it would be for legal reasons in case I need to contact the police again. I already told her over email and when she came here that I wasn't ready to talk to her and I needed space. There is also now a police record that she came to my house even though I had told her not to. I don't know how much they actually documented though because they didn't seem to think it was a big deal. I'm so emotionally exhausted that I'm not sure if I can even go to work tomorrow. I'm worried that she'll send me more angry messages and maybe try to show up again if I send her another email. At the same time, I want legal protection. I was thinking about contacting her therapist (she used to be my therapist too so I have her contact information) and telling her not to encourage my mom to reach out to me again because I was going no contact. Apparently she thought my mom's idea to come here was a good idea and encouraged her to do it. Any thoughts?