I learned the term "Future faking" today

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Someone made a post and used the term "future faking". I had never seen that term, though it sounded exactly like my ex - making references about the future that he didn't mean in the least. So I googled it - and boy were my eyes opened. (and if you want to read a very interesting article, there is one on eHarmony about Future Faking - not sure if I can link it here)

Let me tell you what, I am still learning, every single day.
First of all, Future Faking is most often associated with NPD. Narcissists use it in an attempt to get you to fall in love and commit to them before they have fully committed to you. And we fall for it because we make faulty assumptions about dating and relationships (like, if they are talking about the future they must be serious about us - guilty). And then, when the rug is ripped out from under us, we ignore the lack of integrity on the part of the Future Faker and assume we were to blame.

And then this:
"In truth, most future fakers have an underlying fear that, if you were to genuinely get to know one another and forge intimacy, you wouldn’t like what you saw. So, they kill things off while the fantasy’s still intact." -eHarmony Article

Very eye-opening I tell you.
For one, I fell for this not just with my BPD ex but also with the con man I dated 10+ years ago. Both of them started in on the "future" talk way too early and I was so blinded to what a normal relationship should look like, I didn't realize how much for a red flag it was.
Also, I have mentioned I'm pretty sure my BPD ex has some narcissistic tendencies and this is apparently another one. And yet another reason I am so glad I'm out of that situation.

Really I just wanted to share - maybe I'm the only one who didn't realize this but I doubt it.

[ILMBPDC]

Someone made a post and used the term "future faking". I had never seen that term, though it sounded exactly like my ex - making references about the future that he didn't mean in the least. So I googled it - and boy were my eyes opened. (and if you want to read a very interesting article, there is one on eHarmony about Future Faking - not sure if I can link it here)

Let me tell you what, I am still learning, every single day.
First of all, Future Faking is most often associated with NPD. Narcissists use it in an attempt to get you to fall in love and commit to them before they have fully committed to you. And we fall for it because we make faulty assumptions about dating and relationships (like, if they are talking about the future they must be serious about us - guilty). And then, when the rug is ripped out from under us, we ignore the lack of integrity on the part of the Future Faker and assume we were to blame.

And then this:
"In truth, most future fakers have an underlying fear that, if you were to genuinely get to know one another and forge intimacy, you wouldn’t like what you saw. So, they kill things off while the fantasy’s still intact." -eHarmony Article

Very eye-opening I tell you.
For one, I fell for this not just with my BPD ex but also with the con man I dated 10+ years ago. Both of them started in on the "future" talk way too early and I was so blinded to what a normal relationship should look like, I didn't realize how much for a red flag it was.
Also, I have mentioned I'm pretty sure my BPD ex has some narcissistic tendencies and this is apparently another one. And yet another reason I am so glad I'm out of that situation.

Really I just wanted to share - maybe I'm the only one who didn't realize this but I doubt it.

[IntoTheWind]

It's a tragic thing to do to someone. Hope keeps it real, even if the evidence is contrary.

I actually went around looking at houses to buy with my ex and now realize it was all for show. I had a sneaking suspicion it was but was too afraid to push her on it because I didn't want to believe it. Then when she realized she'd maybe took it too far she tried to back out by blaming my financial situation as the reason she couldn't look anymore, which lead to a very long conversation about my incomings and outgoings, which were actually stellar and in far better order than hers and then we just... forgot about it. We went looking at dogs and we were about to commit to buying one because she was pushing it hard, then when it came to pay she wanted me to buy it alone "but she'd walk it". I was like... no. Plenty of other examples related to moving in together and living together, our kids, the money we'd make together.

The faking doesn't necessarily even apply to the future. The present and past aren't off limits in lala land

[once removed]

just a heads up:

"future faking" is not a clinical or legitimate psychology term. its internet slang. its one of the many terms on the internet that people have invented to cope with the pain of a breakup, because they struggle with the big picture.

people do not put their best foot forward to get you to commit to them with the intention of hurting you. i think this can be one of the trickiest things to understand in detachment: what feels like an attempt to manipulate us may not be.

thats not to say that people arent misleading - they often are in the courting stage of a relationship. everyone, to an extent, tries to "hook" a suitor, by putting their best foot forward, by downplaying or hiding their flaws, and by generally wooing you. some people go to greater extremes.

I didn't realize how much for a red flag it was.

these are only harmful things if we overinvest in them. if a stranger walked up to you with promises of marriage, you wouldnt take them up on the offer.

as for how this phenomenon applies to people with bpd (it does), and why its something a lot of us experienced:

people with bpd over express themselves and over emote. youre the greatest; the best partner theyve ever had, the person that understands them and treats them better than anyone (similarly, before long, youre the worst person who ever existed). so these things that a lot of us feel, but hesitate to say, in the honeymoon stage of a relationship, when we are seeing our partner with rose colored glasses, people with bpd tend to say without a filter.

likewise, people with bpd have that intense fear of abandonment, and they push, quickly, for commitments. they fall hard and they fall fast, and they desperately want to actualize it. its not insincere. its not designed to hurt you. its a fantasy.

and, of course, it hurts. it hurts because we have to grieve that future we believed so hard in.

[Ad Meliora]

Thankfully I didn't experience this, kinda like you never saw the "rage" parts.  My ex was incapable of contemplating the future or consequences of her actions past the immediate moment--at least not with me.

In Zen Buddhism one of the goals in meditation is to live "in the present moment".  I think she was good at that, but it was far from a meditative state for her.  It was more like "I see this thing here, oouuu, it's a glowing phone with Amazon prime loaded, nice, I like this pretty thing, I'll buy it!"  It was a present filled with anxiety as to if I would ask her tough questions about reality, or things like "what do you like about me?"  "Ummmm, I'll get back to you, you have (blue) eyes and you're a man"

If you could retire now, what would be your ideal retirement?  "Ummmm, I'll get back to you,... okay, I want to watch minnows on a lake [one of 10,000 here]."

I was a decent throw pillow and I kept her company, pretty much it.  She didn't have to be alone and I could be her excuse for awhile.

So why would I stay?  Simple: Good sex.  Oh, and some sweet T-shirts.  She got me one that had a funny cat in a sombrero and taco and had in big letters "Taco Cat", 'spelled backwards or forwards--it's the same'.      It was a grey-blue, she thought would match my eyes.  She did a good job there, she had great taste and an eye for bargains.  She loved to shop, and since she didn't have a concept of the future (fake or otherwise), the credit card bill was always a shock.

As for my future, well that lies on the whispering wind as foretold by the Sage known as Robert Plant.

[GuyIncognito]

Future stuff was a real pain with my ex. If there was even the faintest whiff of us discussing something that might/could happen in the future, it was like she instantly had a whole plan and was desperately attached to the idea, even if all I'd offered was low-level interest in a conversation down the road about a thing. This applied to all kinds of stuff, from jobs, to moving, to other relationships (we were open), but most importantly: kids.

Despite us both saying we weren't interested in kids (I'd already had two) when we got together, and me literally getting a vasectomy a month into us dating, she built up this idea in her head that I was really into the idea and pushing to get her excited about it, that we'd have to make sure it happened relatively soon, etc.

We had a few conversations about how cute kids are and I didn't loudly shut it down when she suggested that if we had kids, they'd be cute. That's it. I, apparently, am also very cute around kids, and seeing me be cute around kids was also sending the message that I wanted this.

It never felt deliberately manipulative, but it was impossible to navigate the subject without it turning into a big fight (this was the cause of our first almost-break up) because she would get so attached to little more than a hypothetical.

[ILMBPDC]

people do not put their best foot forward to get you to commit to them with the intention of hurting you. i think this can be one of the trickiest things to understand in detachment: what feels like an attempt to manipulate us may not be.

No and I actually don't believe for a second my BPD ex was deliberately trying to hurt me or manipulate me. He did seem remorseful when I told him he hurt me.  But he does have these mechanisms (clinical term or no) that cause pain, whether that is intentional or not.

these are only harmful things if we overinvest in them. if a stranger walked up to you with promises of marriage, you wouldn't take them up on the offer.

I fully accept I was partly to blame - I trusted him, I fell for the wooing. I admit I am lonely and it felt good to be wanted, for someone to actually contemplate a future with me, and I overlooked the red flags. To be fair, I also had a terrible example of relationships from my parents and honestly never realized that some of this was abnormal until recently.

Funny story - I have twice in my life been asked by strangers on the street to marry them. I said no (obvs). So I'm not completely stupid.

people with bpd over express themselves and over emote. youre the greatest; the best partner theyve ever had, the person that understands them and treats them better than anyone (similarly, before long, youre the worst person who ever existed). so these things that a lot of us feel, but hesitate to say, in the honeymoon stage of a relationship, when we are seeing our partner with rose colored glasses, people with bpd tend to say without a filter.

likewise, people with bpd have that intense fear of abandonment, and they push, quickly, for commitments. they fall hard and they fall fast, and they desperately want to actualize it. its not insincere. its not designed to hurt you. its a fantasy.

and, of course, it hurts. it hurts because we have to grieve that future we believed so hard in.

yes to all of this. He even admitted it was fantasy (later on) - everything was fantasy to him. And I do understand he wasn't trying to hurt me - and that I have some culpability in the whole thing.

I have been trying to look back at the relationship from his perspective, knowing what I know now, and I actually feel even stronger that we are very similar in a lot of respects - we are both lonely, vulnerable and desperate for someone to love us - we just approached things from a very different angle. What still hurts is that his fantasy didn't revolve around me, it revolved around someone/anyone. My fantasy revolved around him and what he presented to me that I took at face value. Its funny, you would think that was exactly what he was looking for, but I guess not. I don't get it and I admit I never will.

One big difference is that I have recognized this and am trying to work on my problems,  to get better so that maybe one day I can have a healthy relationship (still feeling like that won't ever happen, but I have a little hope at least). He just keeps repeating the same thing over and over with new women.

Back to a point I made in the original post - I am seeing more narcissism in him than I ever realized. Things I chalked up to his BPD really are more associated with NPD and having had conversations about these things with people on the board its interesting because it seems like some of those aspects are all too common (and yes I am aware that BPD and NPD have a decently high co-occurrence rate - 25% or something like that?). It just really, really interesting to me - and makes me wonder if things like the future faking were because of his BPD need for closeness or his narcissistic need for...something. I guess it doesn't really matter, does it?  I am now just contemplating "out loud" 

[Ad Meliora]

Funny story - I have twice in my life been asked by strangers on the street to marry them. I said no (obvs).

Kindofa a swing-and-a-miss on your analogy, Once.   Who would've ever guessed though?  I don't recall this happening, but maybe at a party in my 20's when some girl was super wasted it happened.  I was likely in a similar state.

As for you ILM,, maybe those were missed opportunities? Hmmmm?

I'm thinking about the scene in Four Weddings and a Funeral after Andie MacDowell sleeps with Hugh Grant in one night stand fashion.  The next morning she says "So when's the wedding?" (Glares at him as he's waking, naked, in shock at what she said)  "I'm assuming we're getting married now that we slept together?"   He goes on to say 'you're joking', she laughs and says, "I think we both missed a perfectly good opportunity here..."  It's pretty BPD I'd have to say, but funny too.  BPD in movies is funny, creates drama and strange situations. In real life, well, not so good.

I had a crush on Andie MacDowell, back in the day, as she looks a lot like my first love I posted about.

[Ad Meliora]

And then this:
"In truth, most future fakers have an underlying fear that, if you were to genuinely get to know one another and forge intimacy, you wouldn’t like what you saw. So, they kill things off while the fantasy’s still intact." -eHarmony Article

While I didn't notice any future talk, I did notice this, 100%.  I'll just call her a faker, it was true throughout the whole r/s.  Me being the understanding child, I was always asking questions trying to get to know her and she just ignored it, pulled back, or got angry.  It made me constantly wonder, "What's she hiding?"

This is so opposite of me, as I was trusting and didn't have anything I thought I needed to hide.  It only made me share more, and that drove her even more nuts and the whole cycle just kept going on much like the lonely child thread points out.  It's kinda like a gold brick, with the "genuine article" you can scrape it with a knife and it's still gold underneath.  Now don't get any ideas and start coming at me with a knife!

Sometimes when we'd come to loggerheads I'd say to her, "Ok, you just do you and I'm going to do me".  Then I'd get sassy and add, "...and sometimes I'll do you and you do me!"    It wasn't all terrible moments, there was some joking around.

Anyway, I think if this future faking happened to me I'd feel extra violated, and extra hurt.  How are you ever going to want to trust people again, right? IDK, my two cents. I prolly should read the threads more closely, contemplate them longer, and then put it all in one post instead of thinking 'oouu, I forgot about that part, that applies.'

[ILMBPDC]

Anyway, I think if this future faking happened to me I'd feel extra violated, and extra hurt.  How are you ever going to want to trust people again, right?

Yep, and its happened to me in my last 2 relationships . I admit, I got so wrapped up in the fairy tale that I believed it. Yes it seemed fast but it seemed real and my emotions were heightened. And when it became apparent that it wasn't real, it made the fall all the worse. I do feel extra hurt.

The thing is, I am now aware of it. My eyes are wide open and from now on it will be a red flag.  So, at least I am learning, even if it took me twice to get it (to be fair, the first guy was a legit con man and everything he said was a lie so I pretty much chalked that whole r/s up to him manipulating me - which was true. The future faking didn't get filed into my red flag category because there were so many worse red flags. Its there now)

[once removed]

Kindofa a swing-and-a-miss on your analogy, Once.

reread what i and the OP said, my friend.

It's just really, really interesting to me - and makes me wonder if things like the future faking were because of his BPD need for closeness or his narcissistic need for...something. I guess it doesn't really matter, does it?  I am now just contemplating "out loud"

ILMBPDC,

i dont say these things to prove a point or win an argument. its not about what i think.

i say them to help. at times, im a little bit more lecture-y about it than i wish i was. at times, i wish someone had been that way with me. at other times, im not sure i would have heard it if they had been.

youve heard about covid and misinformation, right? im not opening a discussion on partisan politics; this isnt the thread, or the board. but surely youre familiar with the idea, whatever your beliefs are.

when it comes to BPD and perhaps even more so NPD, the internet is not your friend. misinformation is at a level of, i dare say, 95%. its very hard to navigate. bpdfamily is, ideally, a place within that 5%, where you can come to learn factual information that will help you in the future. that will help you learn the differences between the normal (if toxic), the toxic, and the pathological, in a way that you can confidently take to future relationships.

what you are describing is somewhere between the level of "very normal" and "toxic", depending on the source. as we get older, and navigate the dating scene, more and more people are going to push us, harder and harder, for commitment, or even marriage, the ultimate commitment.

i have seen countless relationships here end over that very argument. i dont think its invalid to seek a partner that shares ones urgency for mating. i do think that people push for that commitment out of insecurity, or incongruous with the partner they are trying to mate with. i think its incumbent upon us to determine where we are at within it all. what do we want? is what we want reasonable or unreasonable? how much of it is fear driven? does it match with our potential mates? my point about the stranger proposing on the street is that ideally, that has no bearing on you, your values, and your goals, and that just because you meet someone who is partially compatible doesnt mean they ultimately cut the mustard.

and i think the bottom line is that youre going to experience this more and more, increasingly. as you do, i think its important that you understand where this may or may not be coming from. to understand it will help you navigate. at the very least, if youve had two strangers propose to you on the street, youll have five in no time.

The thing is, I am now aware of it. My eyes are wide open and from now on it will be a red flag.

the way i see it, there are two different paths coming out of a relationship with someone with bpd traits.

i could find you, right now, 100 different sites that claim to list anywhere from between 10 and 100 different red flags that you need to know in order to date. the sites with their top 10-20 must know red flags? surely youve seen them. we actually have one ourselves, and i ran the thread. what we ultimately found, was while there was some overlap, members (and these sites alike) ultimately dont agree on what are "red flags": https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285706.10

i would stipulate that those sites are pathologizing what is really pretty normal stuff that youre going to run into time after time, and need to know how to navigate when you do.

why does it matter?

you can enter dating again from a place where you are looking for danger. i did. healthy people will sense this. they will read you as emotionally unavailable, wounded, and preoccupied, and theyll balk. the real risk is meeting someone operating with a similar, unhealed wound.

on the other hand, you can enter dating again from a place of mastery and understanding, and confidence. better, stronger, wiser. if you do that, this stuff is going to have little to no bearing on you. you will automatically filter it out, not because its a threat to you, but because its simply not what youre looking for.

if you approach dating from a place where the idea is to be fearful of someone at our age who, a bit earlier than you proclaims their love, or, pushes you to marry them, you are going to struggle. if you approach dating from a place where you want to better understand a person before you marry them, where you want to learn their values, their level of commitment, their thoughts on having children vs yours, their thoughts on privacy vs disclosure, their thoughts on chocolate ice cream vs vanilla, what have you, you will bowl a great record. you will meet and perhaps date people that differ, but you will be a lot luckier in love.

[Ad Meliora]

I think Once had a good point that the future faking isn't a real term, it plays good on a dating website, but it is something that seems to be common in a pwBPD.  This video talks about it in the middle, how they don't want anyone to get to know them because they won't like what they see.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=303038.0;viewResults

I think this perspective is good, from the person with BPD, obviously who is self aware of their condition and likely getting treatment.  It's so hard to understand being on the other side, as we all know, and once you see their suffering it evokes nothing but compassion and concern.  It also doesn't seem like there is much a partner can do from the outside unless you're a parent or potentially a long-term partner whom they trust.

It was the case study on the front end that got me to participate here in the forum.  I am thankful for that.  For the first time I began to understand there is an explanation, there is a condition and traits that other people can identify.  Even better, here's a person who's brave enough to share what it's like living with BPD and how it's affected them.
https://bpdfamily.com/content/my-definition-love-i-have-borderline-personality-disorder-0

All I saw was the negative behaviors and suffered the attacks which just made me feel terrible.  Maybe it would've been better if all the faking was done away with and things disclosed at the beginning.  Not sure on that one.

Fairly early on I knew my previous partner (of 15 yrs) had Bipolar Disorder.  Now I never saw and "official diagnosis" and she wasn't actively treating the condition while we were together.  I did experience the behaviors, and the cycles.  Also, her grandfather suffered from it, he took his life.  It ran in her family, as while we were co-workers (10 months before dating) her 29 yr old brother committed suicide and I went to his funeral.  I'm not sure he ever received an official diagnosis.  He was on medication, and in 1 in 200 it increased suicidal thoughts to a severe level.  I had no reason to believe she was "faking" her condition.  It helped to know what I was dealing with there from the start.  Her disease didn't focus on attacking my "self".  Most of her time with me, in retrospect, was spent in low-grade depression.  That's something that's understandable, and manageable.  Still, it was my need to avoid loneliness that kept me in the r/s well beyond the expiration date, and her comfortable position of being cared for that kept her staying put too. Not an ideal r/s for either of us even if we were simpatico and great companions, and could "talk shop" for example.

[ILMBPDC]

i dont say these things to prove a point or win an argument. its not about what i think.

i say them to help. at times, im a little bit more lecture-y about it than i wish i was. at times, i wish someone had been that way with me. at other times, im not sure i would have heard it if they had been.

Once, I thank you for what you do here - there have been times you have made me think about something that caused a breakthrough or realization about my self.

when it comes to BPD and perhaps even more so NPD, the internet is not your friend. misinformation is at a level of, i dare say, 95%. its very hard to navigate. bpdfamily is, ideally, a place within that 5%, where you can come to learn factual information that will help you in the future. that will help you learn the differences between the normal (if toxic), the toxic, and the pathological, in a way that you can confidently take to future relationships.

Yeah I get that. I was originally on a BPD Loved Ones (I think?) subreddit and that was extremely toxic. My daughter has BPD and I am aware they are not inherently evil, manipulative people but reading that subreddit would have you think they are.

what you are describing is somewhere between the level of "very normal" and "toxic", depending on the source. as we get older, and navigate the dating scene, more and more people are going to push us, harder and harder, for commitment, or even marriage, the ultimate commitment.

and i think the bottom line is that youre going to experience this more and more, increasingly. as you do, i think its important that you understand where this may or may not be coming from. to understand it will help you navigate. at the very least, if youve had two strangers propose to you on the street, youll have five in no time.

Oh I get that. My comment on a red flag had more to do with the over the top statements about the future from someone you barely know.

you can enter dating again from a place where you are looking for danger. i did. healthy people will sense this. they will read you as emotionally unavailable, wounded, and preoccupied, and theyll balk. the real risk is meeting someone operating with a similar, unhealed wound.

on the other hand, you can enter dating again from a place of mastery and understanding, and confidence. better, stronger, wiser. if you do that, this stuff is going to have little to no bearing on you. you will automatically filter it out, not because its a threat to you, but because its simply not what youre looking for.

if you approach dating from a place where the idea is to be fearful of someone at our age who, a bit earlier than you proclaims their love, or, pushes you to marry them, you are going to struggle. if you approach dating from a place where you want to better understand a person before you marry them, where you want to learn their values, their level of commitment, their thoughts on having children vs yours, their thoughts on privacy vs disclosure, their thoughts on chocolate ice cream vs vanilla, what have you, you will bowl a great record. you will meet and perhaps date people that differ, but you will be a lot luckier in love.

I agree with you. I really don't want to go around being suspicious of people. And no one is perfect, I understand that well (I am definitely not perfect and probably have a red flag or two to my name). Should someone start taking of the future early, but makes an effort to include me in their life and follows up with their actions, its a whole different ballgame than someone like my ex who painted a pretty picture but never followed through and never included me in his life - and admitted he never even thought about inviting me when he went to these "parties" with his friends. So, yeah, in that case, lots of red flags that I ignored because of the pretty words. THAT is one of my big takeaways, tbh. I am learning but I am trying to NOT be black and white here.
When I made this post I felt like I found something I wanted to share, something that didn't quite fit into the "love bombing" that I read about and something that pointed to his narcissism, which I am slowly finding out more about. I get that its not a clinical diagnosis or term. But recognizing these narcissistic traits in him - and the previous ex - and starting to understand my mother is very likely a covert narcissist had been one of the biggest breakthroughs in my life this year - I gravitate toward these men most likely because of my mom. But I have a new therapist who is really good at giving me "homework" and I am learning to have boundaries with her narcissism that will spill over into my love life. Hopefully, eventually, I just won't attract them anymore. But if I do, I'm trying to learn the tools to recognize it early because I have had way more than enough narcissism in my life.

[NotAHero]

BPDs are big on future faking except that they actually believe it the moment they say it. They dupe themselves not just you. Then the end comes like every other relationship they had and the emotional discard kicks in. Suddenly the new flavor shows up and they are talking about growing old together few days after you were discarded.