Mom's neediness, but trying to set boundaries, and not enable

[Methuen]

Hi all,

Mom called me this morning to ask me to come fix a carpet that is a tripping hazard.  

I asked her if she had asked one of her home health workers to fix it (I am not sure what has changed about this area carpet in her living room, that it is suddenly a problem, but one of the home care workers did find her on the floor one day).  They come to her house for 15 min 4X a day to give her eye drops to prevent blindness from an infection she got after a macular degeneration shot.

She replied that they are there for too short a time to fix her carpet.

I responded that they have to wait at least 3-5 min between administering different sets of drops, and that is plenty of time to fix a carpet, and I reminded her that they are caring people that are happy to help.

She then asked if "I was coming to town today".  I replied that I was but H was at work, and I was only coming in for an appointment, and I have 2 contractors at the house working so I needed to get home again.

She then told me that _______ (her favorite helper friend) is unavailable all this week too.  (I'm thinking "good for you - setting boundaries).

Then she also asked me to come to her doctor's phone appointment tomorrow for her drug renewal because she  "can't get her words out" when she's nervous.  I didn't say I would or I wouldn't.  I couldn't commit.  I feel like the only way to not enable her is to let her fail.  It feels cruel.

This is so horrible.  I just feel awful.  To have to set boundaries against your own mother - it's _ _ _ _.

Meanwhile, our house is still upside down with renovations, contractors, and us doing as much work as we can before we leave on a trip in a week.  Almost the only thing that's in it's place in our house is our bed. 

Any thoughts on how I can respond to her needs differently, or better?

[Couscous]

I think what you did was perfect — well done! It takes a lot of courage to do what you did and you should be very proud of yourself.

It’s completely natural to feel terrible when you first start doing the healthy thing. It feels so unnatural and very uncomfortable at first and is highly anxiety provoking.

Be prepared for your mother to up the ante to force you back into your playing your old role. She’s probably going to have a big crisis of some kind. I have found the book The Dance of Anger to be extremely helpful on how to break out of established patterns of interactions, and the advice on how to stay the course when you start getting major push back.

Keep up the good work!

[GaGrl]

From a practical standpoint, here's what I did when my mom lived in our retirement house for three years before we moved in -- we were 360 miles away and had to help her handle as much as possible by phone -- I told Mom to keep a running list, and would then hire a handyman for a half day or full day to take care of it all.

I wonder if having her handle the appointment herself will let the doctor see how she struggles to "get the words out." My parents' internist was instrumental in helping my dad realize what he could not do. She's the one who got him to quit driving.

[zachira]

It hurts to have to set the kind of boundaries you need to protect yourself from being emotionally overwhelmed by your mother because you are a kind and caring person. You are not being unkind or unreasonable by refusing to be at your mother's beckon and call. It seems you are going to have to let her fail at certain things to be able to get her into assisted living. Meanwhile you worry about something happening to her. I am wondering if you could hire a case manager to be your mother's first person to contact when she needs something. While you are on your vacation, might be an opportunity to have someone else be the first and primary contact for your mother's care.

[Notwendy]

This is so horrible.  I just feel awful.  To have to set boundaries against your own mother - it's _ _ _ _.

I understand- I have these feelings too. BPD mother said to me "I wish the grandchildren would visit me".

That just made me cringe because, in a normal situation, that would happen more often. But my kids are grown and don't all leave near me or her so it would take some planning to make a trip there for all of them. We have done it, and it's very uncomfortable for all of us. The first thing she does is set up ways to manipulate us. The kids know it and it bothers them. We eventually say no to something. Then she gets very hurt, says things like we never do anything she  asks us to ( that's after making the trip to see her and do things for her).

To get all her family together takes some planning and we have done it. But she seems oblivious to the effort- some have to fly, or drive long distance. We have to get an Airbnb or hotel, arrange to be off from work, and also arrange pet care. So to hear her complain that we don't do anything she asks us after we do that is frustrating. The last visit I made, we arranged a nice dinner for her and some family members, did errands for her, cooked food and left her plenty to eat after we left so she'd have some meals covered. All she said to me as I was about to leave was how much I upset her.

Most likely, she won't remember what she said to me, but being around her is like trying to fill an empty well and there's an open drain at the bottom and it stays empty for her no matter what we do.

So when she says "I wish the grandkids would visit me". She doesn't mean me, she means them. And when they have visited, it becomes a list of what she needs them to do for her. It's interesting because when other people visit her, her FOO and their kids/grandkids, she doesn't do that. She'll put out tea and cookies and have a nice visit. We'd do that too if it was possible- and even bring the tea and cookies as to not impose on her. But with us, it's "I need you to do this and that and do it exactly as I tell you".

She can't connect the wish to have us visit with her behavior when we do. Yet, like you Methuen, I feel badly that I am not able to include my mother in more family get togethers, but when we do include her, it changes the situation- she becomes the single focus, and there's drama. If we want to have a normal, peaceful get together, we can't include her.

I think we feel bad in these situations because  we wish we didn't have to have boundaries but find that we have to have them.

[Couscous]

What really helped me stopped feeling guilty for having to aggressively defend my boundaries was understanding that the reason I have to do so, is because they are boundary busters. They do not respect their children's and grandchildren's boundaries because they do not actually perceive that  any boundaries exist, because they perceive us as extensions of themselves. I can only imagine how frustrated I would feel if say, my hand, refused to do scratch my head whenever I felt an itch. My hand is an extension of my arm, and as such I expect that it will obey my every command, and I would probably feel enraged if it refused.  LOL.

[Teabunny]

I can only imagine how frustrated I would feel if say, my hand, refused to do scratch my head whenever I felt an itch. My hand is an extension of my arm, and as such I expect that it will obey my every command, and I would probably feel enraged if it refused.

  lolThis was hilarious, and I really needed a good laugh, thank you!

I've been wondering if the landlady that owns the property our house sits on possibly has BPD. Might never know. But she sounds so much like the pwBPD others describe on here! Seems oblivious to how much effort people go through to serve her, acts like a bottomless well, doesn't respect others' time or boundaries, forgets what we've done for her in the past and past conversations, visits become all about what favors we can do for her instead of sitting down normally and enjoying time together. She imposes rules on others (ex: no pets, no guests, must block off your driveway) that she doesn't apply to herself.  Today she's upset once again that UPS tried to deliver a package to us - she doesn't like trucks driving across her property if it's for us, only for herself. She chased one off once, when the truck was trying to deliver chocolate-covered strawberries my husband's family mailed to us.  We've had to set boundaries with her as best we can.

She calls my husband "Mr. Long Arms" instead of his name, because she is often asking him to reach up high and get things down for her  Literally like that itch-scratching metaphor you used!

May we all have the strength to set whatever boundaries make sense in a BPD relationship context, and not feel guilty for how bizarre the boundaries look in normal relationships. 

[Methuen]

Thanks everyone for the helpful comments and discussion.

That was a great metaphor Couscous.

We leave on our trip in 5 days.  Mom keeps saying things to make me feel guilty for going.  I am learning to reflect rather than absorb these comments to a degree, but it's hard.  How could I leave her like this?

Her family Dr made referrals last April, for her to see an internist, and a neurologist.  Today the nurse for the internist called to book an appointment for mom for next week, since the family Dr personally called the internist yesterday to advocate for mom to have her referral on an urgent basis.  I am speculating that this is after the phone appointment he had with her this past Tuesday, to renew her prescription drugs.  This is the phone appointment I told mom I wasn't available to be at.  I'm guessing that when family Dr heard first hand how hard it is for mom to get her words out, he pushed for the referral to happen more urgently.  It can take her 5-10 seconds to get her word out, and then she can struggle with the next one.  So the first appointment available with the internist, was for after my flight has left.  Of course.  So now with us getting home Dec 18, it means she can't see the specialist until January.

Despite the referral being from last April, I feel guilty that I won't be here to take her next week.  After hanging up the phone with the nurse, the guilt just washed over me.  The brain kind of went into panic mode, and I couldn't think.  Then I realized I had left something important at a different clinic this week.  I phoned to see if they had found it, and they had not.  It was a powerful disappointment I had of myself.  Mini-meltdown.  I think I was already triggered by the guilt for not being able to take mom to the first available specialist appointment, because I was going to be out of town. This reaction helped me observe just how worn down I am.  I have little emotional resilience in my tank.  The logical side of my brain knows that the referral went in last April, and it has been out of my control that mom wasn't offered an appointment before the very two weeks I will be out of the country. Most non's from a non family, with emotionally healthy "normal" people wouldn't give this a second thought.  January appointment?  No problem.  But I was almost immobilized with guilt.

Mom keeps FOGing me with how much these home care visits of 15min 4X a day are going to cost her.  Yesterday I looked at her and replied sweetly: "Mom, you want to give each of us cash for spending money on this trip as a Christmas present, but why don't you want to spend money on keeping your eye sight?" She said "Anyhow", and then changed the subject.  Everytime she sees or talks to me she complains about the cost of home care.  I believe she is guilting me, because by not doing it for her 4X/day every day (for possibly 3 months or longer) I am now the reason she has to pay. I don't know how to break the cycle of her complaining about the cost to me.  I keep changing my response, but no response is working.  I guess I just have to accept it's my fault this is costing her so much money...

I have accepted that my only value to my mom is to serve her needs.  I don't feel love from her.  I don't feel much of anything from her, other than obligation and guilt.  Towards her I feel a kind of unhealthy love, and a lot of pity.  I am also generally terrified of my mom, but not specifically at the moment.  She is in waif mode, and not witch mode. 

However, when she gets bad news from the internist and the neurologist (her Parkinson's is advanced but she's in denial), that too will be my fault of course.  And whenever the doctor's deem her unsafe to live independently, it will be my fault that she has to go into assisted living, unless she misses out on that and goes straight to complex care as her dementia is also advancing - but she doesn't know she has dementia.  I'm guessing one of these specialists is going to have to break it to her sooner or later.  And that will be my fault too.  When she gets bad news of any kind, it's "I just want to die".  Aging sucks for anyone.  It's not for the faint of heart.  And it's so hard for families as well.  But throw BPD into the mix, and it's just life sucking. 

[Notwendy]

I have accepted that my only value to my mom is to serve her needs.  I don't feel love from her.  I don't feel much of anything from her, other than obligation and guilt.  Towards her I feel a kind of unhealthy love, and a lot of pity.  I am also generally terrified of my mom, but not specifically at the moment.  She is in waif mode, and not witch mode.


That's it for me too Methuen. Waif is the hardest one for me as well. It's easier for me to have a boundary when she's in Witch/Queen mode. I understand the feeling of fear. I have grown up in fear of my mother.

Regardless of the dynamics between us, I don't want her to feel hurt or discomfort, and don't want to cause her to feel any.

Yet, the empathy is not reciprocal. She seems oblivious to how her behavior affects her family members, and sometimes she's well aware of it and is intending to be hurtful.

Her perspective is to blame other people. We can't change how other people think.

[Couscous]

Her perspective is to blame other people.

This is what’s known as displacement aggression. In fact, 50% of agression observed among primates is due to this phenomenon. It’s a very effective way to reduce one’s cortisol levels, which is why people do it.

The book, Children of Self-absorbed, has a some exercises to help build, develop and fortify the “self” in order to stop suffering from wounding parental behaviors and attitudes, as well as some great strategies for lessening the impact of a parent’s criticism and blame.

[Methuen]

This is what’s known as displacement aggression. In fact, 50% of aggression observed among primates is due to this phenomenon. It’s a very effective way to reduce one’s cortisol levels, which is why people do it.

I did not know that this strategy works to reduce cortisol. Makes sense that cortisol reduction is the reinforcement for the behavior.  This is so interesting.  I love hearing the "reasons"...

The book, Children of Self-absorbed, has a some exercises to help build, develop and fortify the “self” in order to stop suffering from wounding parental behaviors and attitudes, as well as some great strategies for lessening the impact of a parent’s criticism and blame.

Adding this title to the reading list.  Thank you Couscous.

[Notwendy]

Interesting information!
I also think the blaming of others is to reduce shame. They have a poor sense of self and I don't think they can handle the idea that they may be at fault. There's also projection and denial at play, again to protect a fragile sense of self.

We had a low key Thanksgiving with kids coming and going and nothing big planned. We've all been busy with work, school, and just wanted to chill. BPD mom's FOO  has a big event with everyone coming. She was supposed to be there with them. When she's with them though, she thinks we are doing something similar but we were not. When she sees the grandchildren of her relatives there, she wants the same thing. It's understandable but we aren't doing the same thing.

I thought about calling her, but on one hand didn't want to present the idea that we were all sitting down at a Norman Rockwell Thanksgiving without her. The kids will speak to her but she presses them for details of their lives to gain information. I just wanted to keep things chill for all of us.

We were sitting on the couch watching TV when she called. She was all alone, didn't go to her family event. Said she didn't feel up to it. Of course, I felt awful for her to be alone. I feel sad for her that she's put herself in this situation- but she has. It still comes down to my purpose being to serve her needs. During the conversation, I brought up another topic ( not an emotional one) that we had discussed and she flat out lied to me about it. She doesn't have memory issues, she's sharp as ever and I can't tell if what she says to me is true or not. Still, it's not my "normal" to exclude or ignore a parent on a holiday.

[Couscous]

We were sitting on the couch watching TV when she called. She was all alone, didn't go to her family event. Said she didn't feel up to it. Of course, I felt awful for her to be alone. I feel sad for her that she's put herself in this situation- but she has. It still comes down to my purpose being to serve her needs. During the conversation, I brought up another topic ( not an emotional one) that we had discussed and she flat out lied to me about it. She doesn't have memory issues, she's sharp as ever and I can't tell if what she says to me is true or not. Still, it's not my "normal" to exclude or ignore a parent on a holiday.

What I have begun to suspect about my own pplwBPD who LOVE to cast themselves as the victim, is how much they actually are suffering. I recently began to get this sense with my brother, whose favorite position on the drama triangle is “the victim”, that it was all just an act designed to elicit my sympathy.

Then I read Emotional Blackmail, and this completely confirmed my suspicion. Casting oneself as the victim is a powerful (though unintended) form manipulation, which I had been falling for for my entire life.