Serious issues about intimacy with my hwBPD

[Concerned2020]

 
I really need help.  My hwBPD and I have a serious lack of intimacy in our marriage.  For context, he has JUST started seeing a BPD therapist, attends a separate DBT group, and has seen a psychiatrist for medication.  We recently moved back into the same home, because he has taken these actions and has stuck with them for a few months now...  but...

My hwBPD has a really detrimental habit of shaming me.  Relentlessly.  It's been 4 years, and he has never stopped.  It's shaming, manipulating, blaming, berating, and coercion tactics that NEVER work when you want intimacy.  I mean, most people understand that if you're not getting something you want, you don't get to bully someone to give it to you.  However, that is the most common tactic that my hwBPD uses.  Over the years, we have had conversations about my life before him, and then, in an argument, he will use those things that I have told him in a vulnerable state, as weapons!  They are things that no one would be proud of.  They are embarrassing details about me.  And even worse, some are things that have been DONE TO ME by people who perpetrated crimes upon me. He uses those too.  He will detail how I "asked for it" etc...  It's truly horrifying to hear your own husband, the person who vowed to love and respect you forever, say those things to you.

Now, when we string a couple of good weeks together, he thinks that I should be approaching him for intimacy, and I simply am not yet feeling that way.  And every time he wants it, (AND does nothing in the way of letting me know)  he gets frustrated because "You're just not giving it up" (paraphrasing)

I would like to find a calm time to discuss a firm boundary around this, but I'm ALWAYS afraid to disrupt the so, so fragile peace that we have managed.  I refuse to be shamed and embarrassed and humiliated by my husband and then just roll over to his demands. 

I do not know what to do at this point.  Can anyone help?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Of course you don’t want to be intimate with someone who treats you poorly.    Obviously he has a major disconnect there and is oblivious about empathizing with your feelings.

Perhaps he has gotten into a habit where coercion works in other contexts in his life.

He needs to understand that not only does he need to make amends for the cruel way he’s treated you in the past, but that he’s not attractive to you simply due to the way he is treating you in the present.

You may have to make some waves to enforce a boundary of “I’m not going to be sexual with you if I’m not comfortable with you.”

What a caring partner would ask, “What can I do to make things better?”

[Concerned2020]

He will not be understanding or making amends.  Just this morning he told me that his therapist agrees with him and thinks that "these questions are valid and need to be answered".  I'm just at a loss.  ALL these questions have been asked and answered HUNDREDS of times.  I get so angry when he gets this kind of advice.  Don't these "professionals" know the difference between validating their client and giving them permission to abuse?  I cannot believe that his therapist would tell him to go home, and corner your wife, and MAKE SURE SHE ANSWERS YOU THE WAY YOU WANT HER TO this time.

[Woolspinner2000]

Concerned2020,

I am so sorry that you are being treated this way by your DH. In a healthy relationship such things should never happen. It's no wonder that you have no desire to be intimate with him. You have wounded, vulnerable places that need healing, not continual reminders and re-opening of those wounds.

Are you seeing a T for yourself? T has been super helpful for me, in teaching me how to have a voice to say no and to set healthy boundaries. BPDs are not always very good at remembering when you have answered before, and it can be a trap that you fall into if you keep trying to explain. I had to stop attempting to get my spouse to hear me, no matter how many times I would go into greater and greater detail. It's not about the reasons why you're saying no. It's that they aren't getting what they want.

 
Wools

 

[NotAHero]

 Sorry you are going through this.

 I can relate from my experience with my BPD gf.

 I highly doubt the therapist is applauding his behavior in anyway. Either he lied to the therapist to get that answer or the therapist never said it. BPs are known to use therapists as sounding boards instead of getting help.

  Keep in mind you are dealing with a mentally ill person. You can’t rely on him for self image or moral compass. Work on detaching yourself emotionally from these attacks. They are just the pain and shame he feels about himself. It’s not about you no matter how he shapes it to be. It is always about him.

[Cat Familiar]

I agree with NotAHero. I cannot imagine a mental health professional saying such a thing.

Whether he outright lied to his therapist or not, or lied to you about what his therapist said, people with personality disorders interpret reality very differently than emotionally healthy people.

The first time that this occurred to me was as an adult, when my BPD mother adamantly recounted an event that we both recently had experienced. Her version had nothing to do with the reality of what actually happened.

I was dumbfounded. I don’t think she was intentionally lying, but she certainly was not a reliable witness.

It sort of explained some of the craziness that went on in my childhood.

I think people with BPD filter information to fit their own narrative. I don’t doubt that he discussed talking to you with his therapist. What I doubt is that he represented his account of your interactions in a way that reflects reality.

[Gdoodle]

I am so glad i am not the only one who has same feeling/dilemma. My ubpd complains we are not physically connected, how can i connect physically with someone who constantly puts me down ( i am a looser, retard, cunt and etc). We might have 2-3 weeks without having a huge outburst but i am just recovering from all the verbal abuse and soon as i feel like i can move forward and connect its another round of getting screamed at, blamed and verbal insults. The cycle never ends but its all my fault for lack of intimacy.

[olafinski]

Hi,
I have the same problem with my uBPD wife.
Because of what she does when she has an episode, I find it hard to approach her because I am afraid of what will happen (walking on eggshells).

Dont know how to overcome that.

[Concerned2020]

Everyone here that replied... THANK YOU.  It only got worse over the weekend, and it was absolutely terrible.  I do see my own therapist, but I have been getting the feeling lately that she is tiring of all of this.  I know that I certainly am.

But, I have gone to her every week or every other week for almost a year and a half.  I have directly asked her to help me set boundaries, as they don't come naturally to me with someone I'm very close to.  She seems to kind of 'talk around it'.  I have been asking her this specifically for months now, and we always seem to not 'get to it'.  My last session, 2 weeks ago, she was much less than helpful.  I am thinking of hiring a new T.  I need help specifically with boundaries, maybe some DBT skills, maybe specific help in dealing with BPD.  He absolutely brought the very, very worst out in me this weekend and I am so ashamed of how I reacted to him.  I feel terrible, awful, horrible about it. 
I think it might be time for me to find a new T.  And also, I know- in the moment- what is happening, it's his shame, it's his revulsion, but the things he says are SO vile. So personal.  So terrible, because they are ALL things that I have told him in more soft, kind times.  My vulnerabilities.  Things that only HE knows.  And then he'll turn around and use things that have hurt me from my past and literally tell me that I deserved it.  or worse, I asked for it.  I never imagined someone who is supposed to love me could be so very cruel. 

[Cat Familiar]

Not everyone, even therapists, is fluent in assertive skills and boundaries. You might try seeing someone else to find a possible better fit.

Many of us who have found ourselves in these types of relationships are people pleasers, a mode perhaps learned at early age in our families of origin. We ignore the initial problematic behaviors, only to allow them to metastasize into truly unpleasant experiences.

I’m not implying that we can keep our loved ones with BPD within guardrails, but for many of us, we have chosen to stay with someone whose behavior other people would soon find unacceptable.

I was rather timid about expressing my needs, communicating disapproval, and removing myself from harmful situations. That led to tolerating very abusive behavior in my first marriage. Now I’m much less tolerant.    

[babyducks]

hello Concerned2020,

as I read your posts I can clearly see how difficult and painful this is for you.  I am sorry you have all this going on.   I understand its terribly difficult in many ways.

it seems to me you have more than one thing going on here.   in fact, it seems that you have many difficult things happening at once.   I was hoping we could start to pull these apart into separate issues and that would make them easier to deal with.

  My hwBPD and I have a serious lack of intimacy in our marriage.

I agree this is a problem.   and a serious one too.   still, it seems to me that returning to intimacy is a goal that should be further down the road, after other larger issues have returned to normalcy.   what do you think?

 
  We recently moved back into the same home, because he has taken these actions and has stuck with them for a few months now...  but

am I understand this correctly?   you and your husband had separated?  and were living apart?  can you say a little more about this? 

My hwBPD has a really detrimental habit of shaming me.  Relentlessly.  It's been 4 years, and he has never stopped.  It's shaming, manipulating, blaming, berating, and coercion tactics that NEVER work when you want intimacy.  I mean, most people understand that if you're not getting something you want, you don't get to bully someone to give it to you.  However, that is the most common tactic that my hwBPD uses.  Over the years, we have had conversations about my life before him, and then, in an argument, he will use those things that I have told him in a vulnerable state, as weapons!  They are things that no one would be proud of.  They are embarrassing details about me.  And even worse, some are things that have been DONE TO ME by people who perpetrated crimes upon me. He uses those too.  He will detail how I "asked for it" etc...  It's truly horrifying to hear your own husband, the person who vowed to love and respect you forever, say those things to you.

I am going to suggest we call this what it really is.    It may certainly feel shaming to you but in my opinion, this is verbal and emotional abuse.   

when I first got here, I had no idea what verbal and emotional abuse was.   and the idea that I might be a victim of it seemed like it was from outer space.   as I learned more, I came to the conclusion that yes, I was being abused.  never thought it would happen to me.

Verbal abuse involves some sort of verbal interaction that causes a person emotional harm, often prompting them to question who they are. It is a way for a person to control and maintain power over another person.

that quote is from our friends 'verywellmind'.   I think the important part of it is that people abuse because it's a way to control and maintain power over another.   my experience in my BPD relationship was that much of it was a contest, a struggle for supremacy.  who was the better person?   who got more of the emotional resources available in the relationship?   who was right?   who was more deserving?    who was blameless?   

the verbal/emotional abuse was a manipulation tactic.  to keep all the power and control in the hands of my partner.   and to keep all the relationship resources and assets tilted in the direction of my partner because she always felt like she needed more.

make sense?

So I would say the problem here isn't there is a lack of intimacy in your relationship.    the problem here is you are being abused.    my two cents.

But, I have gone to her every week or every other week for almost a year and a half.

I hope you recognize the commitment you have made and how well you have followed through on it.   good job.

I have directly asked her to help me set boundaries, as they don't come naturally to me with someone I'm very close to.

Interesting.   Let's talk about boundaries.    A boundary means different things to different people.

To me; "if you call me a jerk again, I will leave you forever" isn't a boundary, it's a threat.

To me; "I want you to stop calling me a jerk."   isn't a boundary.   it could be a request.

To me; "When I am called a jerk, I know the conversation is no longer productive and I will go off and do other things."   that's a boundary because I am controlling and protecting only myself.    I am not controlling the other person; they can continue to call me a jerk all day long if they want.   I won't be there to hear it.

what a boundary look like for you? 

  And also, I know- in the moment- what is happening, it's his shame, it's his revulsion, but the things he says are SO vile. So personal.  So terrible, because they are ALL things that I have told him in more soft, kind times.  My vulnerabilities.  Things that only HE knows.  And then he'll turn around and use things that have hurt me from my past and literally tell me that I deserved it.  or worse, I asked for it.  I never imagined someone who is supposed to love me could be so very cruel. 

I don't think it matters if it's his shame or revulsion.    its abuse.    and there is no reason to participate in abuse.    I am not suggesting you say to him "this is abusive".   likely that wouldn't be helpful because it would continue the subtle argument of who is the better person him or you.  he's abusing you verbally so he can feel better about himself.    what I would suggest is that you find a way to safely and calmly leave these arguments before they escalate to where you lose control of your own emotions.

I'll stop here and wait for your reply.

'ducks

[PromptDormRater]

I am following this because I could have written this same post.

I feel badgered and exhausted.  OP, I am sorry we share a similar experience -- but it is (sadly) nice not to feel so alone in it.

[zondolit]

my experience in my BPD relationship was that much of it was a contest, a struggle for supremacy.  who was the better person?   who got more of the emotional resources available in the relationship?   who was right?   who was more deserving?    who was blameless?   

the verbal/emotional abuse was a manipulation tactic.  to keep all the power and control in the hands of my partner.   and to keep all the relationship resources and assets tilted in the direction of my partner because she always felt like she needed more.

I just wanted to say thanks, babyducks, for this. I have fallen into this trap of relationship as contest. I feel sullied for having been part of this. By naming it, I hope to avoid it going forward.

[Concerned2020]

Thanks Babyducks.  I haven't figured out the quoting thing here, but regarding abuse, yes, I am aware that it is exactly that.  It FEELS abusive.  It FEELS awful.

As far as boundaries go, I just finished the book "Boundaries in Marriage" and I bought the workbook.  Hopefully that will be more helpful than my T.

I do understand that the boundary is to help me.  Not to control him.  It's about what I need to do to protect myself from the abuse. 

And yes, we were separated for about a year and a half due to this and other issues in the past.  It was the fact that he had found a therapist, a DBT Group, and has committed (and followed through) for a few months now that have brought us back together in our marital home. 

[babyducks]

I am following this because I could have written this same post.

I feel badgered and exhausted.  OP, I am sorry we share a similar experience -- but it is (sadly) nice not to feel so alone in it.

hello PromptDormRater

Sadly this is a fairly common experience.   I've read many a post where the Original Poster details how the pwBPD fixates on a part or an aspect of our past and continually uses it to belittle and disparage who and what we are.

Would you like to share more about how you are dealing with this?

[babyducks]

Hello Concerned2020

  I haven't figured out the quoting thing here,

there are two ways to do it.    Instead of hitting reply in the thread you are working on, you can use the Excerpt button that is in the upper right corner of each response.    Or if you already started your reply you can scroll down to the topic summary, find the post you are looking for and hit quotebox also in the upper right of the individual response.   then it's a matter of cutting, pasting and deleting what part of the quote you want to work with inside the new text box .    you can preview how it's going to look before you post.   

As far as boundaries go, I just finished the book "Boundaries in Marriage" and I bought the workbook.  Hopefully that will be more helpful than my T.

I do understand that the boundary is to help me.  Not to control him.  It's about what I need to do to protect myself from the abuse. 

what boundary do you think you would like to set?    how would you articulate it?   this would be a good place to sound it out.   sometimes the simple act of writing our thoughts out helps us organize them.   

what would be a simple boundary you could set and be able to enforce?

'ducks

[Concerned2020]

what boundary do you think you would like to set?    how would you articulate it?   this would be a good place to sound it out.   sometimes the simple act of writing our thoughts out helps us organize them.    

what would be a simple boundary you could set and be able to enforce?

In an ideal world, it would sound something like this...

I feel humiliated when you judge my past, and I don't want to be a part of that commentary.  If you won't speak to me respectfully, I will need to disengage in the conversation.

[Concerned2020]

the excerpt thing didn't work.  hopefully you can still see who was Babyducks and who was me

[babyducks]

In an ideal world, it would sound something like this...

I feel humiliated when you judge my past, and I don't want to be a part of that commentary.  If you won't speak to me respectfully, I will need to disengage in the conversation.

I think that is an excellent boundary.    a wonderful place to start.

now to part two of the equation.       how do you think he is going to react when you say this?     I need to ask,  is it possible that the situation might escalate to violence?    your safety is most important.   

typically, what happens is that the pwBPD doesn't respond well to the boundary.   pwBPD are getting something out being able to dump all their negativity on those closest to them.   its like an escape valve for them and when that escape valve closes, they tend to double down.   or have what is called an extinction burst.      trying harder to get the same result by using the same maladaptive coping tool more intensely.

what does "disengage" look like for you?    how are you planning on disengaging?   walking out of the room?    going to the store?     let's say he comes back with 'you should be humiliated, you're nothing but a blank blank blank'.   it might be a good idea to script out how you think this might play out so that you don't have try and troubleshoot it in the heat of the moment.

my suggestion to 'you should be humilated' is 'loving spouses don't speak this way' and exit.  walk away.    leave the room.    if the emotional temperature is very high, leave the house.   'I'm going to go get milk, I'll be back in 30 minutes'.

whatever you decide to do or say, two things are important.   you maintain as much of a cool and collected composure as you can.    and you that you consistently enforce the boundary.   every time your past is mentioned - you enforce your boundary.    'I'm not talking about this part of my past with you any more."   "like I said, I won't be part of you judging my past."

what do you think?

'ducks

[Concerned2020]

As far as how I think he will react, I really do not know.  He is aware that I was reading a book about boundaries.  He is aware that I get very upset when he does this, and usually we end up in a fight because I defend myself and argue right back.  It is like a touchpoint with me, and it's been brought up and fought about so many times, that it's like touching a barely healed burn scar for me.  It's a definite trigger.   

I think the key will be staying calm, as that is not my usual behavior.  He knows exactly what buttons to push.  But staying calm, looking him dead in the face and telling him that I do not want to be a part of these activities anymore.  I will not continue this conversation until we can take down the temperature.  And as for enforcement, I will leave the room.  If he follows, I can leave the house.  I really cannot allow this to continue.  I truly feel like if I hear this issue one more time, I will lose my mind.  And I'm not interested in losing my mind either.

It's also my understanding that boundaries need to be discussed ahead of time, when everything is calm... I do hate this idea... I hate to disturb the oh-so-fragile quiet peaceful times.  Any advice in this department?

[Cat Familiar]

You don’t have to discuss your boundary at all. You can merely say I’m not participating in discussions where my past is brought up. Period.

When he’s trying to trigger you, you might think about *fighting back* strategically—I mean by purposefully not reacting to your *button*.

I understand having those kinds of scars and how abusive it is to push on them. I like the idea of not giving his attempts to fluster you any energy. For me it’s having the white cold anger of being aloof and unbothered. It is a way of taking back power and remaining centered. The red hot anger trips me up every time.

[babyducks]

It's also my understanding that boundaries need to be discussed ahead of time, when everything is calm... I do hate this idea... I hate to disturb the oh-so-fragile quiet peaceful times.  Any advice in this department?

I agree with Cat Familiar.     You don't have to discuss this boundary with him at all.

I actually think it's better to NOT discuss this with him.  What I am thinking is that any way you can find to take the energy, intensity, emotion OUT of this is better for both of you.

Right now, any discussion about your past has a huge amount of vehemence and harshness in it.   You want to slowly deflate this.    Like letting air out of balloon.     What tends to happen in these circular arguments... and you are in a circular argument make no mistake about that...is our partners get upset, we get upset, and like pouring gasoline on a fire our partners get more upset and dysregulate, which in turns makes us more upset... and round and round it goes.  nothing is ever resolved and after a while you can't even tell what the argument is about.   

the more low key you can stay, the better the chance he will.   people who have trouble regulating their emotions can sometimes generate an argument so that they have reason for their chaotic emotions.

the more you can aim for "meeehhhh, we've discussed this, I am bored with it, I am going to do the laundry".   the lower the energy level will be.   make sense?

and speaking of laundry,  think about how you will disengage,  where will you go, what will you do.     if you walk away try not to trap yourself in a small room without an easy exit.   don't, for example, lock yourself in the bedroom.    think about where you will go, and what you will do once you get there.   I used to make a cup of tea and go sit on the balcony, which probably won't work in this weather.   maybe this would be a good time to look for that box of stuff in the garage?    maybe time to start baking some cookies?    maybe time to take the trash out?    when a fight started between my Ex and I,  I would often excuse myself to go to the bathroom so I could take 5 minutes to think of what I wanted to do.

actions speak louder than words.   if you hold this boundary, you don't have to discuss it with him at all.    don't JADE.   don't Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain.   time how long the conversation has gone on.    if you have been discussing this for more than 10 minutes that's too long in my opinion.   

how does that all sound to you?
'ducks

[Concerned2020]

Ducks, not giving the argument energy would be the ideal outcome for me.  Taking the air out of the argument would be so wonderful. 

I have no idea how he would react to "I'm not participating in any discussion where my past is the topic".  He likes to tie my past to the present.  He likes to make it relevant to current day issues.  I'll give you an example- and this is an actual thing he says:

"You won't have sex with me but you'll go drop your bags in the room of a known rapist" (YEARS ago, on a family trip with our children, before I ever met my current husband, my ex husband used to violate me after I would fall asleep).  "If that doesn't tell me that I'm not a worthy partner, I don't know what does!"

And even though it's the truth, I don't need any reminding, ya know?  Before I met my current husband, I did decide to go with my kids and ex on a trip to a beautiful suite and I did stay in the same room with my ex, and he did take advantage of me after I had drank too much alcohol.  He did that during our entire marriage.  *big part of the reason that I quit drinking*.  However, when my husband makes that rape by my ex husband a CHOICE THAT I MADE, like it was my fault, I can't listen to that anymore.  I'm hoping you can see that as a victim of someone else's crime, being made responsible for that crime would be triggering.

I think this is going to take practice.  I think it's going to take a LOT of self control.  I think it's going to have to be repetitive.  I will not give it air.  I will not give it air.  It's not right that he says these things... 

I really wish that his therapist would see and understand the things that he says and stop enabling him.  I think he goes in to see his therapist and tells her the sanitized version of these things and her response to him (he says) is that, "Yeah... something is missing.  She isn't telling you everything".  She, according to him, told him that when they get to the "Radical Acceptance" part of DBT, he's going to have a really hard time with it if he doesn't have the 'whole story'.  I am always and continually dumbstruck.

She clearly doesn't know that when I had to leave him 2 summers ago after a physically violent altercation, that I went to a DV shelter because I didn't have any money, or a place to go...   I reached out to this same ex husband for financial support to help me get an apartment.  He's the only "family" I have left aside from my (barely) adult children.  I needed emergency help and I also got emotional support via telephone conversations with the ex.  Those conversations were always about how I intended to move on, move forward, and pick up my life. I realize that I probably shouldn't have called HIM (the one person my current husband CAN'T STAND)  but when you're in a DV shelter and desperate for help, I can see how some people might call the devil himself. 

So, when my husband tells me that he cannot understand, and his therapist can't understand, how I would call my ex husband for help, I'm just at a loss.  THEY call it an emotional affair... and they can't understand why I wholeheartedly disagree.   My own therapist, who was my therapist throughout all of this, says that is NOT an emotional affair.  My husband could not disagree more vehemently.   

I was hoping to make this more of a succint reply about the boundary.  Hopefully I have shed some light on why he says the things he says.  He feels like my ex husband is my go-to person, and that I have had an emotional affair with my rapist inside this marriage.  I do not know how to deal with that.

[Cat Familiar]

Can you speak to his therapist? You could say that you have no intention about asking anything that could be confidential about what he has said.

However…you’d like to share your side of the *story* that your husband has inquired about.

I’d do that in a heartbeat. I called my husband’s therapist and told him that though my husband presents well to outsiders, I suspected BPD due to a list of behaviors that I enumerated. He thanked me for the information.

I second guessed myself and asked my own therapist how she’d respond if a spouse called her and gave her information about one of her clients. She too said that she’d be grateful.

It wasn’t the first time that I had done this. I called my former boyfriend’s daughter’s therapist to tell her about disconcerting behaviors I’d personally observed, that I thought might be covered up by the family, and she too thanked me.

[Concerned2020]

I could email.  I have done that before because my husband told me that he'd like for me to meet with her.  Unfortunately, he didn't tell HER that I would be emailing her.  The email stated very simply that I would like to meet with her and discuss some of the things that have been going on, and that my husband had asked me to.  I did not get a response, and my husband had "forgotten" that he told me that by the time she let him know I had emailed, and they both looked at it as an infringement on my part.

If I emailed her again, I believe it would be construed as a manipulative attempt on my part to influence his therapy, and I want no part of that.  Unless I told my husband of what I was wanting to do, and he told her in advance.  And right now, that is not a conversation that I'm wanting to have with him. 

[babyducks]

Honestly it would trigger the living  outta me.

I get why this is hard as  to deal with.    If you need to vent come here and vent to us.

The plain practical truth is your husband is getting something out of your reaction.    He gets to feel superior.    He gets to be the victim in this story (while he clearly isn't).  He gets to make unreasonable demands.   

Taking the air/oxygen out of this will help put out the fire.

You have every reason to feel hurt and angry.  Still I would encourage you to share it with only safe people.

[Cat Familiar]

OK, so you don’t feel you can contact his therapist directly. What about your therapist speaking to his therapist?

They (allegedly) are talking about you in his therapy sessions. That he doesn’t have the *whole story* needed for radical acceptance. That she doesn’t know about his violent behavior that led to you fleeing to a DV shelter.

She is advising him based upon incomplete and incorrect information that he’s provided. Certainly your therapist could share pieces of your account that will set the record straight and help her advise him more accurately.

[Cat Familiar]

I wouldn’t let this continue. His therapist is doing a disservice to the relationship and could be putting you at risk. Speak up. No one else is going to have your back.

I’d be writing her a letter if none of the other possible strategies are an option. People tend to read letters. You can state clearly that you believe she needs to hear some facts that she may not be aware of and you have no intention  to interfere in his therapy.

[Concerned2020]

Thanks ducks...

Did it make sense when I told you what he says?  about how he ties the past up in the present?  

I know it's hard to understand why I voluntarily went on a vacation with my ex husband... but our kids were going, and I loved the resort we were going to.  I can understand why my current husband has trouble understanding why I would put myself in that position.

Where we keep running into trouble is when he ties THAT above, (which took place before I met my current husband) to me calling the ex husband when I was absolutely desperate for help and in a DV shelter.  Its like he minimizes his part in that situation.  He has no responsibility in that situation because "I overreacted" to his physical violence.  

And that's what tells me that his therapist isn't getting the whole story.  As a female therapist, I would certainly think that she would understand that if a man's violence puts a woman in a domestic violence shelter, it wouldn't matter if she had called the devil himself for help.  You don't get to judge a woman for WHO she calls for help.  And you most certainly don't agree with the abuser that she had an emotional affair when she called for help.  

Can you tell me if I'm reading this wrong? or if I'm missing something?  I think it bothers me more that his therapist seems to be enabling him than it does that he behaves this way... because with his therapist "agreeing" with him.. that emboldens him and his abusive conduct.

[Concerned2020]

Cat.  THAT is a really good idea.  I see my therapist next wednesday, and I will talk to her about it. 

In the meantime... I am not going to give it any oxygen.  I will set the boundary if he starts talking about it again.  He meets with his therapist tomorrow so it will likely come back up.  I'm not going to give it air.  I'm not going to give it air.

I can go to our lower level and watch tv or work on my computer.  if he follows me down there, I can go to the store, or my son's house, or meet a girlfriend for coffee...