MIL with BPD hurt and pain on the family

[soninlaw]

My mother in law has BPD.  I am still learning new things about this disability.  Initially, we had a strained relationship, she harassed us and did not maintain cordial communication for years.  Then, to please her and my wife, I remained within close living distance, at the peril of my career and opportunities.   (All of her adult kids have to live with her or within 10 miles of her).

After moving away from it all, I think my wife does not have her own opinions of her extended family.  Is it possible that her opinions are from or heavily based on her mother's opinions?  Her mother believes that all of her family members are perfect.  This disability has created so much manipulation, hurt, pain, conflict, lack of intimacy and stress...many years later, I feel no connection to my spouse.  Years later my wife will still cave to her mother's demands - after therapy.  I have given up.  I got my children out of the situation with my MIL. 

I have had much career success and stress free living being away from her.  However, I am still haunted by the past pains and the belief that my wife is incapable of formulating independent opinions of her family.  It is a set back and I find that I cannot trust her judgement.  Anyone else experienced any of these things?

[Turkish]

Yes. My ex was enmeshed with her mother, a Waif-Hemit type. Former MIL always liked me though and still does.

How did you take your kids away from that?

[soninlaw]

I was so tired of no job opportunities - that I HIT rock bottom. I had to get out. I had tried and gotten pulled back into it before.  I desperately looked for jobs in a new city.  On that note, my spouse decided she would move.  My child told my MIL that we were moving.

[Couscous]

Congratulations on getting your family away from your MIL. 

As Turkish said, this is called enmeshment, also known as fusion. BPD families are by definition, enmeshed families, as the BPD mother cannot allow her children to separate psychologically as this would lead to “abandonment” of the mother when the child grows up.

I think that Schema therapy is probably the best type of therapy that could help your wife address this. Family systems therapy is another option, especially if your children are older. 

[soninlaw]

Thank you.  This is very helpful. We will look into Schema Therapy. I think in the US it might be called Cognitive Therapy? I will find out.

[Notwendy]

To help understand your wife- when children grow up with dysfunctional parents, this is their "normal". You can see the issues from a different perspective. My mother's BPD behaviors were obviously not "normal" to me but the full extent of our family dynamics were not that obvious as these were the "normal" in our home.

It's good that you got farther away from this- it's good that your stood up for yourself and took care of your need to be in a job you prefer. I am glad your wife was willing to move with you.

You may not be able to change her perspective- this is the family she knows. However, you seem to have a grasp of boundaries, and the importance of self care. By taking care of your needs for employment and distance from the dysfunction, you have role modeled that. I didn't see that growing up. Dad gave into my mother's demands and we all had to go along with that, no matter how we felt about it. You have shown your wife something different.

Continue doing what you are doing- the importance of boundaries and self care in action.

[soninlaw]

Thank you for sharing your experience.  It means so much to have a forum like this. For years, I didn't know what the issue was.  My wife does not share information about it - it's the family secret.  Her father was passive and moved away.  After about 40 years of marriage he got a divorce. 

How did you heal from it all (control, manipulation, harshness, selfishness, time loss, isolation)?

[GaGrl]

My mother never felt fully free of her step-mother, who was uBPD/NPD, until stepmother died. And my mother continued to have several BPD traits throughout her life due to what she grew up thinking was "normal." She could not express anger and would resort to silent treatment. She did not handle criticism well at all. She did not adequately express her own needs.

I wish my mother had done therapy. I did, and it made a huge difference in my ability to adjust my view of FOO "normal" to a healthier way of living and being. I wouldn't have the marriage I have now without the therapy work I did then.

Has your wife engaged in any therapy at all?

[soninlaw]

My wife has gone to therapy, but she never shares anything.  I don't see any change.  Everything I know about BPD is through books, therapy for myself and the internet. 

My MIL took care of my eldest child until she was 5 years old. I hope that she will not be impacted. 

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother's issues are also a well guarded family secret. The worst thing possible we could ever do is say anything about them. Pretending she is wonderful is the family rule.

Your wife may not even understand why she goes along with it. When I do say anything truthful about my mother, I feel a sense of dread. I think this is a rule we learned when we were so small we didn't understand it, other than it was very scary when BPD mom was angry so we didn't dare.

I know you want your wife to deal with her family issues and the issues it has caused her. The problem is- she needs to be the one to do that. You can not fix this, or change this for her. You also can't get her to see there's a problem - she has to be the one to see that.

It's different in my case as I am the one who is working on dealing with my BPD mother. I had to realize I needed to do that- and to realize her behavior towards me ( and others) is unacceptable. It has not been my husband's issue to solve or help me with. He's well aware of how she acts- and is supportive of my boundaries- but I had to be the one to have the boundaries.

My husband understands why I have to have boundaries but it's not something he relates to because he didn't have to do this with his mother. She had co-dependent tendencies but she's a kind, loving person. I don't really know what it might be like to have a mother like that, and he doesn't know what it's like for me.

Be aware of the Karpman triangle. Read about it. You could easily step into persecutor role if you push to "rescue" your wife from her mother.

[soninlaw]

Thank you for sharing the Karpman Triangle. I did some research, and I am going to embark on not being apart of the triangle. I have definitely played all roles victim, rescuer, and prosecutor. 

I realize that my wife in a sense works for her mother.  I always thought my wife was a victim who needed a rescuer/prosecutor.  Especially, since her father left the family when she was only 6.  He returned intermittently to have more children and then leave again.  She became her mother's husband as the eldest.  Enmeshment, enmeshment, enmeshment...

Thanks to reading, and researching, I no longer see my wife as a victim. It was normal to her.   She was fine living a few blocks away and dropping in everyday. I overstepped. I helped to create the triangle.  I always tried to move for years, and she would fine a way to block it. If I knew and understood this years ago before children, I would have left! 

I will continue to set boundaries for myself.  I have a lot of activities and community groups I can redirect my energy too.  I will be the best role model I can be for my kids.  I told my wife I see her as a friend not a spouse. We sacrificed our marriage for my MIL.

Mentally I left this marriage years ago.  I felt so beaten and worn out.  Now, I am emotionally leaving the triangle.  After my last child graduates, I plan to move out.  This has been an awful nightmare.

Importance of Awareness
My brother in law has the same issues I had.  He still lives close to my MIL.  The other adult kids were not allowed to marry or date. 

Do not underestimate the power of BPD.  It is far reaching and it can rob you of your life if you let it.  Read, research, talk to other people and consider therapy. 

[Notwendy]

Do not underestimate the power of BPD.  It is far reaching and it can rob you of your life if you let it.

I believe it. I saw the full power with my father.  I became the rescuer/persecutor in the triangle with my mother but their bond was stronger than anything, or anyone else. I believed I could make a difference for him but now realize my attempts were probably naiive and futile. He'd long ago given his life to her. She owned him.

One reason we can't change this is that their attachment to the pwBPD is an aspect of this bond. They have a need to be a part of it, even at personal cost to them. The idea of hitting bottom makes sense- the toll on them has to be what prompts them to change. If we take on the role of rescuing them, we also keep them from reaching this realization.

It may be that your wife realizes this cost her the marriage or maybe she won't. Your part is to take care of yourself and your boundaries. She makes her own choices.

[Turkish]

She was fine living a few blocks away and dropping in everyday. I overstepped. I helped to create the triangle.  I always tried to move for years, and she would fine a way to block it. If I knew and understood this years ago before children, I would have left! 

When I was buying a house in 2009/2010, my then not ex wanted me to put in an offer for a house literally 5 homes down the street from her parents, "so it would be easy to pick up and drop off our son." I cringed at the idea, though I had no issues with her family; they liked me and I liked them. Being fed with authentic Mexican food was awesome.

However, I saw her enmeshment, beyond the cultural issues of close family. I bought a home 3 miles away.

Her dad's affair in 2013 resulted in my ex being angry and disrespectful of her mother openly. Later that year, she did like her dad... I was glad I didn't live on the same street.

These days, my ex is openly sharing (over-sharing) her journey on Facebook. Too much. A recent post was about how her mother taught her to fear (the Hermit-Waif dynamic). I try to deflect this when she tries the same dynamic with our kids, now 9 and 11.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/was-part-your-childhood-deprived-emotional-incest

This might help to understand where she's coming from emotionally.

[soninlaw]

Turkish, I am halfway through this article and this platform is so informative and helpful.  I went through, what I now know to be called 'emotional incest' as a child.  Recently, I started sharing and doing the same thing to my 11 and 13 years old.  I will not repeat the same mistake my parents and MIL made.  Back to reading  

[Turkish]

Kids need to be kids. Their mom left the house in early 2014. They took a trip to the coast. Our son was 5. She got angry and spanked him for... reasons. When they got back, she went into the bathroom and cried. She apologized, so did he for "making her mad." They hugged and cried and made up. We had enough trust that she told me this, probably soliciting advice. I wanted to scream, "you're the parent and it isn't his job to make you feel better!"

I've caught myself, even so, stopping from offering my opinions on what the kids tell me about Mommy. None of this is easy.

Now D9 saw mommy and I do a friend hug last month (I can't remember why, I try not to do that normally). D9 quipped, "you're getting back together, yay!" That is normal for kids.  Expect it and try to come up with validating responses.

[soninlaw]

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone who helped me through this.

I told my wife I we don't have a relationship.  Quite possibly we never did.  Now that I understand the enmeshment and her inability to even formulate her own opinions of the world and people closest to her.  For people who did not grow up with a pwBPD this is so different from NPD or any of the other PDs.  It is devastating how much life and time is loss.  But I am free now - no more triangulation. No more stressing over this!  Whew

[Couscous]

What would you say are the main differences from the NPD family system?

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for sharing your story. My MIL has BPD and her son (my H) is enmeshed. It's had a huge impact on our relationship. He is equally resistant to saying anything negative about her - he insists he had the ideal childhood. Whatever his mom feels, he is obligated to also feel. "Older kids weren't allowed to date..." <- same. MIL' hated anyone he dated. From the moment we started dating it's been one show of power after another, her way of letting me know she is the one in charge.

I had to make a choice - fight it, play the game they've had a lifetime practicing, and lose, OR step off the triangle they created.

I am glad y'all finally moved. Physical distance from my MIL has saved our marriage. She wanted to move in with us when we got married and I thank the heavens every day that we dodged that bullet.

He tells her everything, even very private things. When I asked him not to share private info, he was deeply offended but beyond that, I sensed fear. Have you ever sensed fear in your wife? Any shift in their dynamic is absolutely terrifying to them.

It's taken this board, many hours of therapy for me and for us, and time to get to a better place. Understanding the triangle and how to step out of it was HUGE. It required me becoming the persecutor because I set boundaries and held them. pwBPD are master triangulators. When you step off the triangle, they can't access you as easily so they don't have the power to upset you.

The second thing that helped was resetting my expectations for him and for my marriage. I released the desire to make him change. I released him to take care of his mom the way he felt he needed to, no matter where that led. I released the desire to control the outcome and force him to see the truth. I accepted that he would probably not ever admit how harmful his childhood was, how dysfunctional and harmful her behavior was. I also accepted (painful as it was) that the marriage I had wasn't the one I wanted and I had to determine whether or not I was willing to build something different with him. I didn't tell him any of this, i believed this was my responsibility to work through.

In my case, stepping back and staying in my 'yard' left space. H actually appreciated the space and felt less attacked and less defensive. In his best moments he can admit that there is something 'off' about his mom, that she is hard to deal with. He admits that she doesn't process emotion well. Sometimes I read what NotWendy and Methuen and others here write and I still feel envious of their progress...I wish my H had more of that courage. I suspect that our spouses know something is 'off' but admitting it is just too scary.

Our spouses didn't ask to have BPD mothers. They were dealt a rough hand. They're still responsible for their behavior and their own healing. I've been hurt by my spouse and I know you've been hurt by yours, but we can either contribute to the unhealthy dynamic or set boundaries, take responsibility and actively pursue healing.

Just know you're not alone.

pj

[Couscous]

My husband is enmeshed with his NPD mother and as pursuingJoy said, it’s his fear of her that is keeping him from taking a stand. He sees the problem, but so far can’t do what he needs to do. But I don’t hold this against him as I can understand how hard it is for him as I have begun grappling with my own enmeshment issues with my family of origin. All I can really do is lead by example, and hope he will eventually get into therapy to help him tackle this.