The pwPD isn't actually the problem. The codependent agents are.

[Couscous]

It seems to me like it should be a no-brainer for everyone in the family to unify and stand up to the disordered family member. Then we wouldn't find ourselves needing to opt out of our family systems. But since this never seems to happen, this can only mean that the rest of the family benefits in a major way from the system remaining as is, no matter how much they complain about the the pwPD.

Take for example, my sister, who, in spite of knowing about the drama triangle, still cannot give up her role as peacemaker. It seems to simply be out of the question for her -- and it's not just due to FOG. Her very identity is that of family peacemaker, and as such, she has zero incentive for peace to actually break out, and every incentive to keep the drama going. I don't hold this against her though, because I can see how hard it is for me to give up my Rescuer identity.

I guess I just need to keep letting go of the fantasy of what could have been, and to also come to terms with the sense of powerlessness that is being triggered in me by having to finally accept that I will never be able to save my family.   

[Goldcrest]

Couscous, I hear you. I notice how difficult it is for me to give up the rescuer role with my mother. It's a work in progress and now I am more aligned with my brother I think it is helping me (we are back in touch since my fathers funeral after 14 years no contact). A new problem that I feel is arising is in talking together about the abuse we are also revealing the disparity in how we are treated in the here and now. How we are played differently by my mother and my brother being much more the scapegoat at times.

I think there is something about how much you are able to observe yourself during interactions with the BPD. How hard wired you are to respond in a certain way, catch the thinking, the triangle response, then break the behaviour or replace it with a neutral response. It is actually really hard to not give in to the brain washing. I think in my case I really want to believe that she can be changed which is of course impossible. My brother too will sometimes use my falling out with her to go in and rescue - perhaps to feel good about himself when his self esteem has been so wrecked by her mothering? I am rambling!

[Notwendy]

I agree- the co-dependent is also responsible- but I think it's more of a chicken and egg thing. It's known that they tend to attract each other and be attracted to each other in relationships. There's even a book out there describing this as a "dance" as their behaviors are in step with each other.

This is why counseling, 12 step co-dependency groups,  ( and also on the relationship board) the co-dependent partner tends to focus on changing their behaviors. Since they are the one expressing the concern about their partner's BPD behavior, they may be motivated to change their behavior- as we can only change our own behaviors, not someone else's. Part of this is helping them see where their behavior is actually reinforcing the unwanted behavior of their BPD partner.

These traits ( I don't mean the inheritance of BPD- but behaviors) are strongly intergenerational as the children learn enabling behaviors growing up. Then they marry someone they can act out their rescuer role with. It doesn't necessarily have to be someone with BPD but it can be. The pattern also is seen in families where there is addiction and other disorders.

Fortunately for adult children, if the behaviors are learned, they can learn new ones. It takes some work but it can be done.

In my own family, I can see where my father both protected, cared for,  and enabled my mother- and in his enabling- her behaviors got worse. Since she knew how to get her way by being emotionally and verbally abusive- she continues to be that way. This works for her. So there was no need to learn a different behavior. It was more chicken and egg though. He didn't know how else to stop her behaviors, so he just began to give in to them, and then this reinforced them.

My BPD mother treated her children differently. I am her scapegoat child. She prefers the golden child. I could see the difference even when I was younger. I felt hurt and jealousy that BPD mom liked the GC better. In retrospect, I see where being the golden child makes it harder to set boundaries and separate. The GC has a stronger sense of obligation because they have more positive interactions with my mother, got to see the good side of her more. They are more attached. While neither of us would want to be hurtful to her, and we aren't, it is easier for me to say no. I have also noticed that she is also more verbally abusive to the GC because of the looser boundaries. I think with BPD, the closer the relationship, the more push pull.

[madeline7]

For me, even though I get angry and frustrated with my siblings, I trace this toxicity back to the pwPD. She is the root of the problem in my family. I was a child, I had no idea what a healthy family was. I was expected to obey the BPD parent and my enabler Dad reinforced her every move. I still have a lot of anger towards my Dad who did not protect us from her wrath, and he continued to mirror her moods until he passed away a few years back. I am so much better at setting boundaries, but my siblings are on their own journey, and are doing what works for them. But all has not been well with my siblings in recent years, as they say, When 1 person poisons the well, we all get sick. This doesn't mean that I am not aware of my own issues with co-dependency, but I place the blame on my parents. My mother threatened to divorce him multiple times over the course of their 60 year marriage, I sometimes think how different things would have been if they did divorce. Then maybe my Dad would have stood up to her and protected his children. 

[Notwendy]

I also thought of my BPD mother as being the cause of the issues. I perceived my father as a victim of her behavior. In some ways, he reinforced that. He would often say "mother says we have to do this" yet, if he didn't agree with it, he also didn't oppose it. "we have to do this for mother".

This was our normal- we didn't know otherwise. By making my mother the reason - he remained both the rescuer for her as well as a victim of her behavior.

If doing something we didn't want to do, or we were unhappy about it- the reason was her. Where was my father in this?

Like Madeline- I both revere my father for being the reason we did as well as we did. Thank goodness he was the more stable one, and he provided for our needs. As far as protecting us, I think he did, to an extent, just by being there because being alone with her is the most vulnerable position. If she knows there are no witnesses, it's worse. However he also must have known about her behavior and he participated in the denial of it and expected us to do that too.

I don't think we'd be better off if they divorced when we were young. In this era, custody went to the mother. That would not have been a good situation. However, I didn't think staying in the relationship was good for him after we became adults. I didn't realize the extent of her mental illness though until later on. Somehow he was able to keep her more stable.

On one hand, I see him as being co-dependent, but he was also a decent human being. I think he knew the extent of her mental illness and realized that she is not able to function on her own. I think he honored his commitment to her and would not leave her on her own.

She needs constant supervision. What has "normalized" this is that she is elderly now, and it is "normal" for an elderly person to need assistance. In her case, she needs more than her physical needs. As a teen, it money in our home was tight but I have also learned he planned ahead well for their elder years once we kids grew up and left home. I think he knew he needed to.

As much as my mother threatened divorce, it didn't happen. I think she knew she would not be able to manage if she did.

I also feel anger at him for his dismissal of my relationship with him. While he didn't say no to her, he was able to say no to me and he expected better behavior from me. I think though, he also knew his children were capable of adult behavior. He didn't think of the emotional aspect. Living with someone with severe BPD is being in survival mode- and I think this took his attention.

[Couscous]

However, I didn't think staying in the relationship was good for him after we became adults. I didn't realize the extent of her mental illness though until later on. Somehow he was able to keep her more stable.

On one hand, I see him as being co-dependent, but he was also a decent human being. I think he knew the extent of her mental illness and realized that she is not able to function on her own.

As much as my mother threatened divorce, it didn't happen. I think she knew she would not be able to manage if she did. 

And here’s the rub: As a co-dependent, in the absence of doing his own recovery work, your father would likewise not be able to function on his own.

[Notwendy]

In terms of survival- he did everything for the two of them. My mother doesn't grocery shop on her own. Although she did learn to drive, he drove her everywhere. She did not prepare meals. My dad took care of his own meals, laundry, shopping, and basic needs. Some days my mother didn't even get out of her pajamas. We also had household help for cleaning and housekeeping.

What my mother did all day was a mystery to us. We kids went to school, Dad went to work. She had everything done for her. Every morning before school, we got ourselves up, got breakfast, and got ourselves to school. Sometimes we rode the bus, sometimes Dad drove us. We didn't see her in the mornings, she was still in bed.

Coming home from school, we had no idea what version of mother we'd see when we got home. She might be in a good mood, she might be in a rage. Often Dad took us to dinner when he got home. Just us and him. Mom stayed home.

For basic survival- she was dependent on him. He'd be able to meet his needs on his own.

Where I agree with you is on the emotional level. It's said that if one leaves a dysfunctional relationship and doesn't do recovery work, they risk getting into the same dynamics with someone else. So without recovery work, he may have gotten into another relationship with similar dynamics rather than feel comfortable being single.

BPD mom, on the other hand, would have had no problem finding another partner to care for her. She is a magnet for co-dependent men, even on a non romantic level- neighbors, friends- always are offering to do things for her. She's elderly now but in her younger years - she was charming and attractive and some men would just fall all over her.  She has magnetism- even now- people see her as this charming sweet elderly lady.

[beatricex]

hi Couscous,
I appreciate you being here, and the clarity you are bringing to my own recovery.  You have a way of communicating your loss that I can sincerely relate to.

I struggle almost daily with my own feelings of powerlessness over my situation, and it helps me to hear you verbalize that.

 

b

[Couscous]

Thank you beatricex, that really means a lot to me. I have appreciated reading your thoughtful posts and they have all really resonated.