How to communicate this is a terrible idea

[Depression = 72% of members]

See my previous post for more background. Quick version, married 5 years together 6, discarded, expecting recycle attempt soon, not ready to give up.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=351538.new#new

Previous post ☝️

We moved to California from Colorado 3 years ago, she blames alot of this on our move. The move was to get distance from her abusive and likely BPD/NPD mom, traumatic childhood there, and near constant suicidality/self harm due to the weather (yes the cold weather causes this in her).

Based on her past patterns and our conversation the other day, it seems like I need to prepare for the inevitable ultimatum from her that we can work it out but I only if I move back there, which would isolate me from from family, cause me to lose a very stable and high paying job, and likely be a disaster as we would both be in firing range of her family.

When we spoke, she said she would come help me move my stuff back there, which was out of left field and then she quickly changed the subject, seemed like a way to plant the idea in my mind that I should prepare for that. She has issued MANY of these ultimatums in the past (getting a dog, moving to California, even getting married was one).

Any communication tools, suggestions on how to make her realize this is a bad idea and that it’s in her best interest to come home here to California, which is the only place she’s had periods of stability, happiness, and therapy?

[WhatToDo47]

See my previous post for more background. Quick version, married 5 years together 6, discarded, expecting recycle attempt soon, not ready to give up.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=351538.new#new

Previous post ☝️

We moved to California from Colorado 3 years ago, she blames alot of this on our move. The move was to get distance from her abusive and likely BPD/NPD mom, traumatic childhood there, and near constant suicidality/self harm due to the weather (yes the cold weather causes this in her).

Based on her past patterns and our conversation the other day, it seems like I need to prepare for the inevitable ultimatum from her that we can work it out but I only if I move back there, which would isolate me from from family, cause me to lose a very stable and high paying job, and likely be a disaster as we would both be in firing range of her family.

When we spoke, she said she would come help me move my stuff back there, which was out of left field and then she quickly changed the subject, seemed like a way to plant the idea in my mind that I should prepare for that. She has issued MANY of these ultimatums in the past (getting a dog, moving to California, even getting married was one).

Any communication tools, suggestions on how to make her realize this is a bad idea and that it’s in her best interest to come home here to California, which is the only place she’s had periods of stability, happiness, and therapy?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Perhaps the best tool you have is to firmly stay put where you have family and a good job.

People with BPD can be very whimsical with their wants and needs and often crave the stability that a grounded partner brings to the relationship, whether or not they realize this on a conscious level.

[WhatToDo47]

Thank you and that is great advice that I wouldn’t have thought of. It does seem consistent with how we have been able to make it this far, because of my stability, and in the past when she is in a more regulated and lucid state she has said as much that she appreciates that about me. Thank you very very much as always :-)

[isilme]

They can be like the leaf, blown this way and that by every high wind and breeze.  We often end up being the tree trunk, trying to remain firmly planted. 

[WhatToDo47]

They can be like the leaf, blown this way and that by every high wind and breeze.  We often end up being the tree trunk, trying to remain firmly planted. 

Beautifully said. This is exactly the role I’ve played in her life. Do you all think then that the best thing to do would be to say no to this idea, even if it causes a rage because I’m preventing her from acting out on her momentary “this will fix everything” idea? If so, any idea what kind of reaction I could expect, would she just give up on me/us or would it be a bluff but subconsciously appreciated?

Thank you!.

[kells76]

Do you all think then that the best thing to do would be to say no to this idea

Well, lots of options to consider.

In a way, saying a direct No to the idea gives it a legitimacy that it doesn't actually have.

What I mean is -- imagine she told you "if you would just sprout a pair of wings, then I'd finally be happy". Saying "No, I can't do that" in a sense gives the vibe that there was a legitimate Yes or No question on the table.

Instead of her ultimatums/demands/requests/etc having concrete meaning, I wonder if instead they are more expressive of a general feeling. They're wisps of clouds from a volcano, perhaps -- the ultimatums give you some info about what's going on beneath, but you can't HOLD them, you can't TOUCH them, you can't GRAB them, there's nothing of concrete substance to them.

Buying into the idea that "she genuinely, rationally thinks the move will help, so I must say No, because it's a Yes or No question" gives her "emotional vapor" a substance, a weight, a meaning, that I suspect it doesn't really have. That may unsettle her.

So, that being said, I wonder what it'd be like to "hand the work back to her". You can BOTH be committed to your personal value and decision of "I'm not moving because I know it's not a solution", AND not engage with it in a conflict-elevating way.

What if you told her something like:

"Babe... that idea is just beyond me at the moment [or something else noncommittal/neutral]... I'm free tomorrow afternoon, let's get Starbucks and I'm open to hearing more of your thoughts and plans for it then..."

Something where the job of thinking about whether it works or not goes back to her, where it belongs.

Of course, at some point you may need to do the hard No -- you know her best, so think about when that might be. Think also about how the above "giving her her own responsibility back" scenario might play out, whether it's a good fit for you guys to try or not.

[WhatToDo47]

Thanks, Kells76.

That is very very helpful, and a new approach for me. Now that I think about it, her therapist (when she had one, she split him black and discarded him at the same time as me, but that’s a story for another time) would use this approach with her. If she made a crazy/unrealistic statement or suggestion, he would basically say, “okay, that’s a big statement, let’s remember that and come back to it next week, what are you feeling that leads you to suggest X Y and Z.”

Usually she would forget by the next week, or if she didn’t then he would ask her to do the mental legwork of playing out the scenario, which would usually lead to her to conclude that she didn’t really mean whatever it was and was just emotional.

I will try this approach. I’m thinking something like:

Her: We can make this work, you just need to move back here with me. I’ll come help you pack.

Me: Wow, that’s a lot to process. It sounds like you’re tired and emotionally exhausted from all this, that must be hard for you. How about we talk about this next week when we are both more rested?

Does something like that sound good?

[GaGrl]

Another comment/ question might be...

"That's a big statement. How do you see that playing out?"

This assumes you are up for that conversation. She would need to take into consideration timelines, changing jobs, getting new housing, etc. etc.

I will add that my husband's ex has consistently placed him on a pedestal and looked to him as a parental figure (unless she was verbally abusing him). She felt he could do or arrange anything with a snap of his fingers. It became tiresome. She still does it, but he has better boundaries and 1500 miles between them.

[WhatToDo47]

Another comment/ question might be...

"That's a big statement. How do you see that playing out?"

This assumes you are up for that conversation. She would need to take into consideration timelines, changing jobs, getting new housing, etc. etc.

I like that a lot. Especially the "how do you see that playing out?" I think that would be really successful with her and reminds me of some of the more successful times that her therapist or I talked her down in the past.

I'll keep that phrase in my back pocket, I'm sure it will come in handy.

Thanks

[kells76]

Her: We can make this work, you just need to move back here with me. I’ll come help you pack.

Me: Wow, that’s a lot to process. It sounds like you’re tired and emotionally exhausted from all this, that must be hard for you. How about we talk about this next week when we are both more rested?

Good direction to be thinking. I like the "Wow, that's a lot to process" start -- nice move.

It's possible that commenting on her being tired and/or it being hard for her could be a non-starter... it could be "opening the door" to an argument:

"I'm NOT tired, and I'm NOT emotionally exhausted! I can't believe you, you always put me down"

and that could derail the point of your comments.

Perhaps, in the middle, instead of commenting on HER, you could insert a comment about you? Something like

"Wow, that's a lot to process... I'm not sure yet where to go with that... How about we talk about this next Monday, I'd love to hear your ideas"

Good idea also from GaGrl, about inviting more thoughts/feedback from her about details. That invitation could give her a "soft exit" from the intensity of her original statement... i.e., inviting her to talk more about details gives her the opportunity to almost talk herself out of it, in a way that saves face (she "drives the car" on walking back her statements, versus being confronted by you about how it won't work).

Another "back pocket" phrase could be:

"Tell me more about _____________", like "Tell me more about your thoughts on that", or "Tell me more about what you'd want to see happen", etc.

[WhatToDo47]

Wow this is relationship gold. That is all excellent advice. Thank you.

That brings to mind something that has caused conflict in the past. When I didn't understand or like an idea like this I would say "What do you mean?" asking her to explain, but that made her furious. I think it came off as too strong and aggressive/invalidating. "Tell me more about..." is much softer than "What do you mean?" I see that now.

I'm going to re-read what you suggested a few times and be ready. Regardless of whether this ultimatum comes, these skills will help me in the future. Y'all are the best!

Any other suggestions you think of are greatly appreciated.

[WhatToDo47]

Also, now I'm kicking myself for how poorly I handled things in the past. I always used logic and unintentionally invalidated her, I was fanning the flames while trying to put them out.

Do you have any suggestions on how to apologize for that? Is it even worth trying to apologize for that or is it already out of sight out of mind for her and bringing it up would just cause her to remember the negative emotions it evoked in her? Or is it too late for me now that I'm painted black?, though she is showing some signs of softening.

Still trying to wrap my mind around this new way of thinking. I didn't even know BPD existed until a huge blow up that led to the current separated state.

[WhatToDo47]

Just wanted to pop in and say that, as expected, this seems to be her aim, and she’s all but explicitly mentioned it a few times now. Using the advice and tools everyone suggested on here, and it’s helping a ton. THANK YOU! I’ve been posting updates on the conflicted board if anyone cares to read or comment.