BPD MIL Update

[pursuingJoy]

Happy New Year, bpdfamily! 

Just wanted to offer a brief update on MIL. Last time I posted, she'd broken her ankle. She successfully avoided physically therapy, went home too soon and ten days after breaking her ankle, broke her wrist, landing her back in the hospital for surgery. She is now in assisted living where she is getting physical therapy and medical care.

Last week her cousin visited all day. The next day the cousin tested positive for Covid, and the day following, MIL tested positive for Covid.

We received an urgent call from H's D29 yesterday morning saying she was going to get granny and bring her home, that granny could stay with them. H pointed out that she had Covid, D29 said she didn't care. She and her fiance both work in medical fields, they only have one room upstairs, and the night before, they'd gotten drunk and she had punched someone in the face. I'm thankful for all D29 has done to help out so far, but busting out granny and taking her there was a HORRIBLE scenario.

Huge positive #1:  H observed on his own that when MIL was upset, she didn't call him, she called people she could wrap up into her emotion. He has been the level head and voice of reason through all of this (wow, because that's not been the case before). H called MIL and amidst her tears and denial ("I don't have Covid") and refusal to understand she might infect other people, he talked her down from the ledge. She is staying at the facility to quarantine, thank goodness.

Daughter and dad are being triangulated and might end up pitted against each other, so this will get interesting.

MIL is in a wheelchair and in a boot, is still trying to avoid getting physical therapy at all costs, complaining to anyone who will listen that she gets breakfast too late, medicine not at all, no one helps her charge her phone, she hates it there. She won't ask anyone for help and complains when they don't offer it. She insists she got Covid from the assisted living facility, not her cousin. She's upset because she can't get the McDonald's coffee she likes. For sure, feeling sick makes anyone feel worse. She's had the vaccine and the booster and so far it's been a very mild case of Covid. We are coordinating deliveries of coffee and we're sending fun care packages with snacks that she can open.

Huge positive #2: H agreed with me yesterday that his mom is insecure and afraid all the time and because of that, has really hurt me and others, even family that have tried to help her through the last few weeks. He agreed that she could sometimes see she had hurt people but she was not self-aware enough to understand the problem so as to avoid doing it again. He said he understood why my boundaries were in place. I am still guarded, as his realizations are a bit cyclical, but each time they come with more clarity and confidence...so I'll take it.

[Methuen]

Happy New Year PJ!  

I've been thinking about you lately.  Thanks for the update.

Daughter and dad are being triangulated and might end up pitted against each other, so this will get interesting.

This made me laugh.  Love the dry humour.  At some point, she will undoubtedly finangle to work you into her triangle again, but you are too smart for that.  Possibly she's resorted to triangulating father and daughter because you refused to participate in her triangles...

Her attitude to PT was predictable.  This was exactly my mom, which is what got her to where she is today: weak, decrepit, helpless without support, and always a victim.  The perfect waif.

Awesome on the positives!

I was always hopeful that with you at his side, your H would find his way to some level of clarity.  I used to be your H (enmeshed), a long time ago.  Two factors stick out in my mind for the penny finally dropping and me finding clarity.  One was my husband's voice always recognizing how much "attention" my mom needed. So much of her behavior was "attention seeking".  Other behaviors were "neediness".  Both requiring "attention" but in different ways.  His broken record (for decades probably) echoing "she does it for attention" made a difference. The second thing was my counsellor saying "why not" when I said I could never take a holiday with H and children at Christmas because I couldn't leave my mom at Christmas.  I was flabbergasted (gobsmacked) that she couldn't see what was wrong with this.  She stuck to her guns and challenged me like a pro.  

H and T have helped me find a path to recognize what is "normal", and what I can and can't do within my own values and societal expectations, which is a much different "normal" then what my mother taught me, when it comes to caretaking her. 

It's hard to differentiate from a parent we are enmeshed with, but it sounds like your H has made monumental steps forward.  That is truly great news.  

I am still guarded, as his realizations are a bit cyclical, but each time they come with more clarity and confidence...so I'll take it.

Very wise.  

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi PJ,

That's quite the update, I must say! Yet I can recall how my uBPDm went from crisis to crisis too and pulled us all in. It was always difficult to know when it was truly an emergency and when it wasn't. Somehow my mom was a magnet to attract problems and drama. As an adult child, it took me a very long time to decrease the drama in my own life. It had become such a 'normal' part of my life that I didn't even realize it. Now I do much better and enjoy a much less complicated life. It's amazing how a pwBPD can affect everyone.

 
Wools

[pursuingJoy]

M, the perfect waif, indeed. Sometimes, in my head, I slow clap at the dramatic presentations. It really helps to hear the two things that kind of made the difference for you. And I'm not sure how I would have made this much progress without you all cheering me on and providing guidance. For it all, thank you.

Wools, it's been really fascinating to watch my H stay calm through all of this. He wasn't at all calm when the conflict was between MIL and me, so this is new. What you said makes me wonder if the drama feels normal to him, maybe he feels a comfort level when there is some kind of drama. On the flip side, he can definitely operate really well under pressure.

[formflier]

Thanks for the update PJ.  How is the triangulation going with D29?  Anything "interesting" yet?

So pleased that your husband is expressing more and more clarity about his Mom.

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks for asking FF. I've only seen a hint: MIL finally came home two days ago. D29 was taking care of her dog. When the dog came home, MIL reported to H that something was wrong, the dog was out of sorts and snapping at everyone. H mentioned it to D29 and she got really defensive, saying it wasn't her, she hadn't done anything.

H has been very attentive to all MIL's needs and everyone is doting on her. She thrives when it's like this. In a few weeks as she gets stronger and people go back to their regular lives we will see more dysregulation.

As the world turns...

[zachira]

You inspire us all with your determination and follow through on setting healthy boundaries with your husband and MIL. Healthy boundaries are healthy for everyone including the dysfunctional people who constantly test boundaries.

[pursuingJoy]

z, that means more than you know. I couldn't have made it through some really difficult times without you all here.

[formflier]

I am cheering for you and so proud of the work you have done.

When you reflect back on the person you were prior to BPDfamily...can you list out what you think are the major changes you have made?

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

FF, that's an interesting question. In short, I think the most valuable lesson  learned here was to stay in my lane, even when others were asking me (or goading me) to step into theirs. The most helpful definition of boundaries was not keeping other people out, but keeping myself in my yard.

Grief kept me stuck for a while - grief that I would have to live with this the rest of my life, that MIL wouldn't ever change, that H would ever really understand the harm he was causing.

Quick update: MIL is now home, sans doggo who is going from family member to family member. She continues to be dissatisfied and create drama. The latest is that the property management company who recently increased her rent by $450 a year (which is legit super crappy) also "stole her routing number off her checks and set her up for automatic payments" last November. She says she created a user and password when she moved in, but insists she didn't set up auto payments. She's talking about hiring an attorney. H is also upset and getting involved, calling the landlord, etc. (I can't quite figure out why she is just now discovering this 3 months later.)

I asked H if she was still getting physical therapy. He said yes, but he didn't know how often, which I found really odd. They talk every day, sometimes twice a day. It seems he'd know every part of this.

I want to run this past those of you with BPD parents - H has always been into fitness but he has been obsessing over his latest diet/fitness kick. At a time when his mom is in distress, emergency after emergency, I find it curious that he is this wrapped up in self-improvement. It almost seems he's trying not to lose himself in his mom's issues. Does this ring true?

[pursuingJoy]

Also, H mentioned again that he thought his mom should find an apartment in our city and move here. I pointed out again that we would be become her one and only support system, and if something happened to him, it would be left to me. He said he had thought of that, but by the time that happened his 15 year old would have his driver's license and could go see her.

?

I can't figure out if he is just talking, or if he would really do that. I don't understand how he thinks moving her here is in her best interests, especially after having 10-15 family members that live in her current city step up and help out.

[kells76]

Couple of quick thoughts...

First, what a great clarification for the group here --

The most helpful definition of boundaries was not keeping other people out, but keeping myself in my yard.

Thinking about "what's mine? what's not?", while a helpful lens, could lead to a lot of focus on The Other Person and What They Are Doing. Kudos for taking personal responsibility for your own life and your own choices in a healthily "fenced" way    It sounds like you're allowing yourself to manage your own stuff and declining to manage others' "stuff".

I want to run this past those of you with BPD parents - H has always been into fitness but he has been obsessing over his latest diet/fitness kick. At a time when his mom is in distress, emergency after emergency, I find it curious that he is this wrapped up in self-improvement. It almost seems he's trying not to lose himself in his mom's issues. Does this ring true?

DH's kids' mom has many BPD traits and married someone with many NPD traits    I have found that an intense focus on an interest or hobby, especially one with tangible implications (i.e. not just watching movies or reading, but one involving life changes) is really soothing and distracting from all the PD chaos. Let's just say that I've enjoyed disaster preparedness and first aid training WAAAAYYYY more than some people, partly for the distraction and partly because in comparison to PDs, 1st aid/CPR/emergency response is SO manageable.

So that part rings true -- focusing on a tangible-impact hobby is a really nice break from PD craziness.

...

Quick thought on this:

He said he had thought of that, but by the time that happened his 15 year old would have his driver's license and could go see her.

?

I can't figure out if he is just talking, or if he would really do that.

What do you think would happen if you said something like "Tell me more about how you see that playing out"? You're not committing to it, and you're testing the waters to see if, like you're wondering, he's just talking (in which case, there might not be a specific answer), or, if he is actually planning this.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi PJ,

I wanted to respond to this question you have:

I want to run this past those of you with BPD parents - H has always been into fitness but he has been obsessing over his latest diet/fitness kick.

I can only speak for myself, but I think it's not common just for myself as a child of an uBPDm.  When I encounter a time of constant drama going on around me, something that I seemingly can't escape with constant demands on me, my body wants to move, to somehow deal with the giagantic unsettled feeling that has me all tied up in knots inside. It's not a conscious mind thing, but rather a deep urge that I must get outside and walk and be in nature or be physically active using my large muscle groups. My T has repeatedly encouraged me to listen to my body, and to give my body what it is asking for. I'm not a runner, but sometimes I wish I was because I so badly want to run and run. I used to ride my bike for miles and miles. It was to get away from my mom and her never ending lists of jobs to do. Somehow it helps to burn off the pent up energy that's bottled up inside me. My T has pointed out how smart Lil Wools was to know that she needed to help herself (even when she didn't know it) by escaping the house and being physically active and out around our farm animals. That was long, long before I had any idea what BPD was.

I believe this goes back to the book, The Body Keeps the Score. What I don't remember consciously, my body remembers physically in some way.

 
Wools

[pursuingJoy]

What do you think would happen if you said something like "Tell me more about how you see that playing out"? You're not committing to it, and you're testing the waters to see if, like you're wondering, he's just talking (in which case, there might not be a specific answer), or, if he is actually planning this.

Super helpful suggestion to invite more conversation, Kells, and conversation led by him, which is important. I'll tuck this away.

His general tone so far has been a helpless, "What else am I supposed to do? We don't have any other option." When I mention options, he says, "Mom won't go for that." He talks about feeling guilty that others are helping out. He repeats that 'you don't abandon your parents, it's just not something you do.' He seems to feel tormented by guilt, but lately, I don't see him rushing to be with her every moment or meeting her every need. Maybe part of him doesn't WANT to be the sole caretaker he feels pressured to be?

The trick is letting him be where he is, because if I push, all blame will eventually fall on me.

My T has pointed out how smart Lil Wools was to know that she needed to help herself (even when she didn't know it) by escaping the house and being physically active and out around our farm animals. That was long, long before I had any idea what BPD was.

What I don't remember consciously, my body remembers physically in some way.

I'm super impressed with Lil Wools, too.   Spending time with animals is also very healing. I've heard of this book and have wanted to check it out, it's so interesting to me that trauma manifests physically.

Makes sense that he would feel the urge to obsess over this right now. I'm happy he is. I don't think he's able to process his intense emotions so it's a great way for him to find a measure of relief. Heck I'm going through a lot with my kids and have upped crossfit to 5 times a week - it's been a lifesaver. My curiosity is piqued because the timing seems 'selfish' by his definition. He's always stated that he would 'be there' for his mom, come hell or high water. He is driving up to see her on Thursday to take her to a Dr appt. Normally he'd talk about how worried he was about the appt, she expected bad news, she needed help running errands, how much he looked forward to spending alone time with her. This time he's only stressing about how he's going to keep up with his diet and workouts that day. Overall, I'm sensing a shift from the "I'm the devoted son/mom's my best friend/I will always be there for her/mom's a saint/so worried about her" that I've heard up until now.

He's at a different place than he was. He seems to be fighting a battle.  

[formflier]

I'm wondering if "helpless" and "abandon" are two words for you to focus on...perhaps to actually bring up.

"Hey Babe...did I hear you correctly that you are worried about abandoning your Mom?"

the channel the thought of letting him lead the conversation, you can hope in with questions here and there.

Best,

FF

[pursuingJoy]

Good thoughts, FF. Thanks.

[zachira]

From my perspective as a woman, I find it very hard to understand how enmeshed men can sometimes be with their mothers. In dysfunctional families, when the mother is either single or has a bad relationship with her children's father or has BPD etc., than the son is oftentimes groomed in many ways to be a substitute husband for the wife. My brothers moved away from home for college and then came back to live with my mother with BPD when they were in their forties and never left (never married and mom had terrible things to say about every single girlfriend), despite how badly they were treated by mom. The pain of supposedly abandoning mom, is deep and there is tremendous guilt. I am wondering if it would help to compliment your husband on the good things he has done for others, including the things he has helped his mother with that our genuinely nice and not dysfunctional.

[GaGrl]

If and when your H gets to a point of talking about the logistics of exactly what needs to be done to "help" her, you can work with him on all the various tasks that are being done now (and who is doing them), what is expected to be done in future (believe me, it gets more intense), and what he assesses he can do in his current situation (i.e., without depending on you).

[Notwendy]

I think those of us with BPD mothers can relate to the struggle. The principle- "you don't abandon an elderly parent" is a strong value. However when the parent is abusive or doesn't respect boundaries it sort of becomes a struggle with that value because. "Abandoning a parent"- this isn't something I ever wanted to do, and wished to not do, but in a way, I have abandoned her. It's not something I feel good about, but to "not abandon" her required accepting how she treats me. It would actually be abandoning myself. That may sound selfish, but it's a constant struggle to keep any boundaries with her and she's cruel, and emotionally abusive, and manipulative when I am with her and it is upsetting.

While my first reaction to mother's statement that she and your H have agreed she's moving in with you, ( without your agreement ) would have been to turn to H and say "I'll be right back with your clothes, and you can move in with your mother" I know that would play into their drama triangle. I agree this is his struggle, but on the other hand, I think he'd default to as much as you allow his enmeshment with mother. It would be easier if he could appease you both. But momma's not going to give here and it's harder for him to say no to her than to you, because of how she reacts.

Actually the dynamics were similar with my family. Saying no to BPD mom is very difficult, as her behavior when she doesn't get her way is difficult to deal with. On the other hand, I don't react that way, and my parents had more control over my behavior. So Dad would mostly say no to me, even if the request was reasonable, even if he would have wanted to say yes, but he'd default to saying no to me, but in summary, the default was that, given the choice of upsetting one of us, he'd choose the less stressful path - and that was me.

I wonder if you are, to your H, the easier one to be able to disappoint. Not because he doesn't love you- he does. He surely wants his marriage and for you to be happy, but these triangles are so tough and divisive. And you care about him and are sympathetic to him, so he feels safer with you. I can also relate because, setting boundaries with my mother is difficult.

[pursuingJoy]

I am wondering if it would help to compliment your husband on the good things he has done for others, including the things he has helped his mother with that our genuinely nice and not dysfunctional.

z, I think you're right that the grooming with men is different. Is it just me or is it harder for sons to break away? Thanks for this insightful suggestion. His guilt really does hurt the respect he has for himself, so reminding him of all the good he's done for his mom and for others in equally difficult positions is effective. I'll make an effort to keep doing this.

If and when your H gets to a point of talking about the logistics of exactly what needs to be done to "help" her, you can work with him on all the various tasks that are being done now (and who is doing them), what is expected to be done in future (believe me, it gets more intense), and what he assesses he can do in his current situation (i.e., without depending on you).

GaGrl, such a practical suggestion. I'm going to start making lists of all the things that people are doing for her now to prep. So helpful to have folks like you, Methuen and Notwendy here that are further along than we are.

"Abandoning a parent"- this isn't something I ever wanted to do, and wished to not do, but in a way, I have abandoned her. It's not something I feel good about, but to "not abandon" her required accepting how she treats me. It would actually be abandoning myself. That may sound selfish, but it's a constant struggle to keep any boundaries with her and she's cruel, and emotionally abusive, and manipulative when I am with her and it is upsetting.

Well put. I hear echoes of the same sentiments in so many others here. It's heartbreaking when people make decisions that have consequences, but you love them and it's hard to watch them deal with those consequences.

And it's not fair to you. You want to take care of her. The limitations are there because of her behavior, and that's sad.

While my first reaction to mother's statement that she and your H have agreed she's moving in with you, ( without your agreement ) would have been to turn to H and say "I'll be right back with your clothes, and you can move in with your mother"

hahahaaa I wish! I didn't think that fast. I exhibited shock, confusion then frustration and a few hot tears...normal reactions but also blood in the water, so sharky-shark kept at it.

I think he'd default to as much as you allow his enmeshment with mother. It would be easier if he could appease you both. But momma's not going to give here and it's harder for him to say no to her than to you, because of how she reacts.

I wonder if you are, to your H, the easier one to be able to disappoint.

He is definitely trying to appease us both right now. I wasn't necessarily easy to disappoint. I made him pretty miserable when he refused to set boundaries with his mom. Lordy I can dig my heels in sometimes.

Since, I've backed off and stayed out of it. I do not offer to help her, or him. He manages communication and visits. I accompany him for special visits like birthday/Christmas and am polite. I am trying to stay consistent. I would not magically jump in to 'serve' if she moved here.

It's been hard for me, and she's not even my mom - must be so much harder for children with BPD parents. Not helping goes against my grain. For years I tried to be helpful, loving, bring thoughtful gifts, paint, tile, clean, accommodate whatever she needed. It's almost like that level of love and affection is painful for people with BPD. Maybe they're so afraid to lose it, they can't actually appreciate having it.

So Dad would mostly say no to me, even if the request was reasonable, even if he would have wanted to say yes, but he'd default to saying no to me, but in summary, the default was that, given the choice of upsetting one of us, he'd choose the less stressful path - and that was me.

Not fair. This makes me upset for Little Notwendy.

[pursuingJoy]

Clarifying that the incident with MIL announcing she was moving in happened in 2019. That, and H's horrible behavior towards me after landed us in marriage counseling. It's taken us this long to get back to some kind of stability and understanding.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I wonder if you are, to your H, the easier one to be able to disappoint. Not because he doesn't love you- he does. He surely wants his marriage and for you to be happy, but these triangles are so tough and divisive. And you care about him and are sympathetic to him, so he feels safer with you. I can also relate because, setting boundaries with my mother is difficult.

This is another level. Can you imagine risking your marriage to appease a mother? I agree with NotWendy that PJ is probably the safer person to cross but still... His life should be his own close family, the one he built for himself, so to even think of putting this at risk for his mother, the enmeshment must be very solid. I wonder what is going on there.

Like Zachira said, the enmeshment does seem more brutal for men with a BPDmother. My father told me recently how I just knew something was wrong with BPDm and decided to leave as soon as the option came up. He says it is part of being a daughter. A daughter has to "fight" a mother and will biologically strive to do so. While technically, a man will biologically "fight" a father and might feel a role of protector toward his mother. Maybe biology itself makes it more difficult for men to stand up to their uBPDm?

I see it in both my brothers... Their abuse was different than mine. She didn't treat us the same way at all. I needed to help, clean, cook supper, diner, be good but not more good than her. There was a competition underlying our relationship.

For my brothers... She was their servant. But there were emotional ties. My oldest brother told me recently he felt like he had to be her boyfriend sometimes. He took care of her like an adult man. He is now married and he doesn't talk to her much, but he never was able to uphold boundaries toward her. He would drive two hours during a snowstorm the second she had a crisis moment, and he asked her a couple times to move closer to him. So while he gives the impression of being healthily distanced from her, I don't think he is entirely.

My other brother just recently tried to go back to live with her and I got in his way. It would be a long story, but I am glad I did. He was mad at me for three days, but at least now he is in his own home and there is a bit more hope for his future this way than in her basement, because this is where he was going back.

There is also some kind of jealousy between my brothers. The oldest abused the youngest when he was a teenager out of jealousy and uBPDm never stepped in to correct the situation.

They are both very protective of her... And they don't talk to each other. She makes sure the youngest won't talk to the oldest, who is still hoping to get his brother back. But as long as she lives, it won't happen. The oldest deceived her at one point when he stopped talking to her, he realized the abuse and took a couple years "off", he also got closer to my father (not his father), and it really rubbed her the wrong way. She tightened the grasp on the youngest, and she puts oil on the fire everytime the oldest is mentioned. She used the whole incident to her advantage, to create a huge dent in my father and brothers' relationship. She is such a hypocrite... I can't believe I didn't see all that sooner.

But as hard as it was for me to see all that, it seems to be even harder for my brothers.

[pursuingJoy]

rw,  no she's not living with us.

In 2014, we got married and she was cute and quirky and we planned to move in together. The 3 month house search was enough to tell me that was a bad, bad idea. She is the one that called it off.

By 2016, H agreed with me that she'd never move in with us. I found out later that he never told HER that, he was still leading her on.

She announced she would move in in 2019. I realized the depth of their issues and found a marriage counselor who told me MIL likely has BPD.

We've had ups and downs since. H seems to finally have accepted that I will have really firm boundaries with MIL. Where before he pushed some of her care onto me, he has shouldered it with a happy face...but her care (and her emotions) are getting intense. My gut tells me H feels increasing pressure.

He makes offhand comments about looking for an apartment for her in the city where we live. I suspect he's just saying that to fulfill the role of dutiful son while he hopes another option will become available. Or maybe he's testing the water to see how I respond?

I think the competitive thing also applies to me and my MIL, rw. Since we started dating, it's been one weird power move after another, positioning herself as the priority, like they together were accepting me. When I didn't play along, she got got weird-friendly with H's ex-wife, who she hated. So weird, but I ignored it and she eventually quit. H still kisses his mom on the lips - that might be ok if it was a cultural or family thing, but no one else in their family does that. So many eewww moments.

Y'alls stories of your pwBPD pitting one family member against another is just unreal, and so incredibly sad. H's only brother committed suicide 20 years ago. His dad passed away 10 years ago. I've always thought their passing made it worse because H feels all the pressure. On the other hand, you're making me realize that MIL could very well have been using them as leverage, which might have made it worse.

BPD is sad-making, isn't it?

[Riv3rW0lf]

You know PJ, reading you actually made me think of my sister in law...

I recently told my brother that she is the one I feel the most for, after realizing my mother is BPD. When I was part of the abuse triangle, she was basically the scape goat. My uBPD loved talking against her, and saying how a bad spouse and a bad mother she was. She hates her and always comments on how she thinks my brother and her won't last. And every decision she makes is scrutinized and analyzed and questioned. It is just weird that she focuses so much on her.

I took part in the abuse sometimes, other times I defended sis-in-law. But the cost of defending her often wasn't worth it and it's not like I was close with her either.  I stayed low profile but certainly didn't extend sympathies toward her... Like I said, the cost would have been too high.

The thing is, she was different from us, she wasn't part of the abuse triangle, so she became the main target. My uBPDm made her cry more than once, and worked very hard to create a wedge between her grand children and their mother. She is still at it, saying thing to my nephew like : "your mother prefers your sister, she doesn't love you as much." Thankfully, nephew took it upon himself to tell his parents about it!  The kind of rotten seeds she is putting in his head. It's disgusting...

And the only thing sis in law did wrong, is she came to dinners, and cleaned afterward... Truly, she was always respectful and while we are different, she certainly never deserved all this hate.

With time, she got defensive around all of us... And it stands to reason. I just hope it is not too late for me to make amends and develop a healthy relationship with her. We don't have to be close, but I at least would like her to feel comfortable around me. I promised myself I would have her back when I last talked with my brother, and I will.

I hope you have some allies in your in-laws family. Else, I really feel for you. Having to share your husband with a nest of vipers is... Urgh. No words, it just must be a lot.

Also, the kissing on the lips thing... It happened once with one of my ex boyfriends, that his mom kissed him on the lips... Yes, it is repulsive. Ewww indeed !

[Notwendy]

Not fair. This makes me upset for Little Notwendy.

Thanks, it wasn't fair, but it was all I knew in my family. As a teen, my self esteem was low. School was my happy place. I had friends, people liked me for me. I would come home to a different world.

I can see how Dad didn't want to upset her or me. I am her scapegoat child. She didn't like that I was closer to my father. She probably didn't like anyone being close to my father. Like your situation, they can not distinguish between different forms of love. Your H can love his mother and he can love you. One doesn't negate the other. A parent can love their child and their spouse, but I guess not in the emotions of a pw BPD where love for a parent or child, or spouse if it's a BPD parent must be some sort of competition.

He had to default to her to avoid issues. It was her side or my side in her world.

Yes, I know it's hard to think of what to say in the moment, and the things I thought when I read your post are things one probably shouldn't say!

I think the hardest thing for him is being the bad guy. Dad didn't want to be the bad guy either as he did try to please us both. However, if I say no to BPD mom, I am the bad guy. I recently did say no to her moving near me. Even the idea of that - I could not even sleep at night when she brought it up, I was so stressed. And the idea of saying no to her was stressful too. Yes, she got mean, very mean, with intent to hurt. This is who she is. I don't want to hurt her feelings but I am not abusive to her. She's the one who sees a boundary that way and yet, somehow she seems it's OK to be emotionally and verbally abusive to me.

[Methuen]

z, I think you're right that the grooming with men is different.

I'm convinced mothers' grooming their sons is different.  Psych's would have theories.  I think the mother-son enmeshment is far more complicated than a mother-daughter, which is hopelessly complicated enough...
 

I would not magically jump in to 'serve' if she moved here.

PJ?  Are you opening the door to that boundary just a little, or...?

Let me just say, that as much as you know and have experienced, I think the "living in" effects, would very quickly go to what you currently know as the "worst its ever been", to X10, to X100 to X1000 to ... in a very abbreviated period of time (less than you think - probably days after the initial honeymoon period).  The reason is because there is never any space, or release, and the pwBPD has ZERO ability to self-regulate.  And, then there is no exit strategy from that situation.  I have a picture in my mind of a ship in the middle of the ocean, with no lifeboats...  I would suggest deciding soon if that is a firm boundary for you or not...because your H will pick up on it...the "if she ever moved here" part (or anything else) is really easy to pick up on.  Even if she's not "moving in", but "moving to", well, it's all been too much for me (we live in the same town), and I've had open eyes and decent boundaries.  It doesn't sound like your H is there yet...

It's been hard for me, and she's not even my mom - must be so much harder for children with BPD parents. Not helping goes against my grain. For years I tried to be helpful, loving, bring thoughtful gifts, paint, tile, clean, accommodate whatever she needed. It's almost like that level of love and affection is painful for people with BPD. Maybe they're so afraid to lose it, they can't actually appreciate having it.

Ah yes.  On the one hand, they demand the attention. The attention from their chosen enmeshed person helps to fill up that emptiness inside of them.  The problem is the cause of the emptiness is never addressed or resolved, leaving a gaping hole in the bottom of their self, so all the attention given, just pours out the bottom.  It is never enough attention.  Further complicating this, the more attention we give them to please them, the more afraid they become of losing it, and that fear causes them to behave in incrementally worse ways that pushes loved one away.  IMHO, they also come to heavily "resent" the other person for all they do, and this builds to an immense crescendo as they age. My own mother is a "case" in point.  She idolizes the few people she knows who never married, and lived with their parent ("to take care of them").  She has made it clear her whole life that is what she would have liked from me.  In one of those mother-daughter couples, the mother passed away.  About a year later, the daughter committed suicide.  My mother romanticizes that.  It is sick.  Despite all I (and my H) have done and still do for my mother, the resentment of all we do (measured by her as love and affection) is stored until it blows out like lava in a volcanic eruption.  The "closer" the enmeshment relationship is, the worse the behavior becomes, is the pattern I've observed.  And the needs of aging just make it worse.

Boundaries is the only way to navigate all this.  

And yet, like has been said here, we all love our parent and share the value of helping and supporting them.  So really it's a clashing of two values: the value to respect our "self" and our own "wellness", and the value to "support the parent we still care for", despite all the abuse.

How is your H doing these days?  Sounds like his mother has been talking to him about moving to your city?  How do you feel about that?  Does this mean that she's "not getting enough attention" from the relatives close to her where she is living now?

[zachira]

Men process what they hear differently than women do. When men are criticized it can feel as badly as when a man hits a woman. Men often only retain what they hear from a woman for short periods of time. Men are often overwhelmed when a woman brings up past incidents. I have had many long intense conversations with my considerably younger male neighbor over the years. One day, I asked him to honestly tell me what he remembers about the conversations we have had over the years, and he told me not too much, just maybe the gist of the conversation. Men also like to do things more than they like to talk. The bottom line is it is important to err on the side of less talking with men, and to stick to what is recent and things they can relate to as being relevant right now.
Men are often brought up to be protective of their mothers. In some cultures, the love relationship is with the mother and not with the female partner.

[GaGrl]

Another factor that significantly contributes to the elder care dilemma is the "only child" situation. Several of us deal with that added responsibility. There literally is no other sibling to help.

[formflier]

Another factor that significantly contributes to the elder care dilemma is the "only child" situation. Several of us deal with that added responsibility. There literally is no other sibling to help.

Yep..that's me.  I'm lucky that wife and kids are very helpful because I don't really have other "extended family" that are available to pitch in.

I'm an only...my Mom was an only.

One idea.

Can you take the time to write out all the caregivers and friends and what role/how often they help out?

Sometimes getting "all the resources" down on a piece of paper (or digital) helps...

Note...recommend doing that privately first and post it here.

Best,

FF

[GaGrl]

FF, I'm an Only because my sister died of breast cancer in 1988, so it was many years of knowing it would be me. I was fortunate that my dad left my mom with the resources to have a CNA caregiver to help me. And BOTH my parents were Onlies, and my son is an Only. Weird, huh?

That's a good idea to write out and share here. Those of us caring for an elderly parent can probably add anything not listed, or that can be added as health eventually declines. It gets very intense.