Trying to Set Boundaries... First one went over like a load of bricks

[TotoroFan]

I could use help on how you've successfully set boundaries and how you introduced them in a loving, thoughtful but firm way. I'm worried I may have already jacked up something but not sure. Here's the boundary I communicated with my spouse this morning and it was not well received:

"I will not engage in arguments or discussions during the work hours when I'm actively working. Your concerns are important to me and I want to engage in a healthy, productive and focused way, giving our serious discussions their time."

What went down... I picked up Walking on Eggshells a few weeks back and in it the authors emphasize the benefits and need to setting clear boundaries and that it should be bit by bit and to start with ones that are easy enough to achieve.

This morning, as we're visiting my mom's house and are alone in the guest room, I'm working on my laptop (everyone else is asleep) and he asks me why I was against taking a family photo (I never was) and why I rejected anything he said on the matter (which I don't recall in any great detail but he mentioned shooting down his ideas and eye-rolling which is possible I may have done) and why I readily accepted our kids' suggestions and opinions (which is not quite accurate). It was an out of the blue question and I did immediately felt on guard and confused.

My attention was divided and I am trying to be intentional about not being distracted because when I'm distracted... I am not practicing active listening, not being careful about my own actions/feelings/words/body language and more likely to misstep or get upset myself, and I initially was confused and asked him if we could discuss this later that I wasn't sure what he was meaning. He was visibly upset but trying to keep his calm. I know he read something in my voice as he reacted to me in a funny way, as though I was the one that was being angry. He left me in the room and I tried to recall what the discussions were about family photos weeks ago and I didn't recall anything special or significant but recognized that he's baited me into arguments before and that I had before communicated that I don't think it's fair or okay to do this during my work day. I'm the sole breadwinner and work virtually (have for 8 years now) and this is my career. He is important to me but keeping focused during my workday is also important.

So when he came back in the room, I shared the boundary and he said that I was putting limitations on him and what he could say and when. He said that it meant I have all of the control and he could only speak to me when I said it was okay. At that point I re-read the boundary. And he said some similar statements about the limitations. I asked him it would be okay if I called him to ask him why he didn't do something in the house while he was with friends or accused him of something while he was working, if that would be appropriate. To which he replied that he would pick up the phone if I called. He kept insisting that discussions were completely off the table despite me explaining that I wasn't referring to quick, casual interactions. He did not accept that and before leaving the room said that the boundary cuts both ways that I should not expect a warm reception should I come to him during my workday to discuss anything.

Feeling deflated... any ideas about similar situations? I know this will continue to be a sore point and that we still have to discuss his assessment of the family photo situation but I'm dreading having to muster all of my whits and patience in the next interactions.

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[Cat Familiar]

Here’s a good article on boundaries:  https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

I can see how this backfired. Unless you regularly speak this way, the quote you shared sounded affected and not like a warm and friendly communication.

Don’t get me wrong, the intent you expressed is great. It just didn’t sound conversational.

And that is a trap when setting boundaries. Ideally we want boundaries to be what we will do or not do in a certain context. They are not about controlling another person’s behavior. When we verbally share them, it could very well be perceived that we are attempting to assert control, rather than telling others what our limits are.

Here’s another way you can share something like that, where it feels more friendly: “Honey, I need to focus on work during the day. I want to give you my full attention when my workday ends.” Repeat as needed. And do that. Don’t give in.

In this way, you are not talking about arguments or serious discussions.

Boundaries are for you. Figure out what you are willing or not willing to do, and do it, or not do it. Boundaries are not up for discussion. Period.

[TotoroFan]

Thanks a bunch! I had suspected I was missing something or a lot of somethings

I do tend to be a tad formal in my speech sometimes but agree that conversational and simple is a WAY better approach. I have yet to share my other limits with him but I'll for sure read the resource you shared and seek some advice before diving in.

Neat update: Later in the day as we were driving back home and my husband asked me for clarification on my boundary and now seems to understand even if he doesn't exactly agree with it or like it. And this morning, he texted me that he wanted to talk later. I know it's small but I'll take it.

Appreciate you!

[formflier]

I want to join Cat Familiar in welcoming you and talking about the subject that made the MOST improvement in my relationship with my pwBPD

BOUNDARIES

Please don't expect the first few to go well...just don't.  It will feel different for both of you (this doesn't mean you should try...just want to set your expectations)


I love the boundary statement that you said...I just kinda wish you had said that to us and yourself and NOT to an emotionally raw and unstable person.  They are interested in "warmth" and not details of when they can and can't speak.

Remember...boundaries are much less about what you do and much much much less about what you say or how you say it.

So...what might have worked better. 

Him:  blah blah picture..blah blah you don't care...blah blah he turned me into a Newt...blah blah but it got better...

You:  Oh my..that sounds important lets take extra time during my lunch break today and discuss this.

How do you think he would respond to this

or

If he is more worked up, give him a dichotomous choice, very important that he has a choice..especially when fired up...but make sure either choice works for you

you "Hey babe that sounds important.  I can chat more about it during my lunch break at (time) or my coffee break at (time).  Which would you prefer?"

How do you think he would react to that?

Let's say it goes badly...and he starts "blah blah...you don't want to talk now...blah blah never listen to me...blah blah care more about work than me and your mother was a hamster..."

Step one..stay calm and friendly.

"I'm not going to discuss this during work, please give me some space."

him "blah blah blah and your father smelled of elderberry" 

At this point I think you walk from the room...go to another room where you can lock the door and put on headphones or perhaps drive to a cafe' where you can use internet.  (Your words have been proven not to work at this point..so it's all about your actions)

Now...all of those were notional things.  My point is not for you to memorize them...but to imagine how these things could progress in a healthy way.

Wash rinse repeat...

What did you think to that article Cat Familiar suggested?

Best,

FF

[TotoroFan]

Thank you, formflier - also excellent advice and I can see how both yours and Cat's suggestions would have likely been received better and I'm going to keep that in mind moving forward and practice it.

The article was helpful - thanks again Cat. I appreciated the ending section on the right and wrong way to set boundaries. I can see how my approach flopped and I will try to improve my approach. I'll also keep in mind, "Try to collaborate and get a buy-in on solutions. Be prepared to take unilateral action if that fails."

This feels so tiring trying to be ahead of each impending argument and accusation. Often, just as I've woken up or right before we are supposed to be going to bed. I feel like I can't have or express normal emotions - like anger, frustration, hurt, annoyance or sadness. And there's no point arguing or pushing back like I used to. I know I have to get better at boundaries because it feels like my only lifeline at this point.

[alterK]

I'll add: Be very specific when you try to set boundaries, and take baby steps. We become so accustomed to negative patterns of interaction that it is difficult to change them.

Trying to discuss past events is usually unproductive with a pwBPD. Especially if it is something that's emotionally charged, the two of you are likely to have different memories of what happened, sometimes 100% different, exactly as you described. Typically we end up just repeating ourselves, arguing about things we can never resolve. After a while both parties are too angry and exhausted to do any problem solving.

I have--and this in a way is boundary setting--tried to insist with my partner that we not use the past tense at all when we try to talk about important issues, just present and future. This way we talk about things that are right in front of us, don't argue about facts, and try to concentrate on what we can do in the future to make things better. At times I feel the urge to break this rule myself, but I've been pretty successful in resisting the impulse, and it really does seem to make a difference in reducing tension and arguing.

Sometimes it works to say something along the lines of, "Look, I can't control what you do, but I can control what I do. If this happens again this is what I will do." The immediate reply I get is usually something like, "You're giving me an ultimatum!" I answer as gently as I can, "All I'm saying is what I will do if (whatever). It's entirely up to you what you want to do." This too doesn't always work, but it is another way of setting boundaries--making a clear distinction between my choices and wife's.

And be kind to yourself! Don't expect to be able to use new skills perfectly right away! In fact, no one uses them perfectly, no matter how long they practice. We just try to get better with time.

[SinisterComplex]

So some tips on setting boundaries a lot of people forget. First, when setting them I will echo FF...don't expect success right away and for everything to go smoothly. That would be fantasy.

A big tip...make sure you stay true to you. What do I mean by that? Make sure you communicate using your cadence, tone, etc. In essence don't try to be something you are not. The most important thing when setting a boundary is to be authentic and genuine while remaining firm and indifferent. Make sense?

The other part and arguably the most important part...remain constant and consistent. Sometimes it is going to feel like you need to be perfect. Well to keep the boundary in place...yes in a sense. I would urge you to either come here and vent when you need to or to have someone to talk to you can vent to because your boundaries are going to continually get tested...just be ready for that.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Hopeless optimis]

This boundary was set in the heat of the argument for him?  If so it never had a chance really, in my experience deflecting to another time would have felt like I was running from her concerns to my gf.  It probably felt the same for him.  It sucks but sometimes you have to let them speak their peice and bring up the boundary at a time when they are more agreeable.  It sucks having to placate an adult, but we choose to stay in these relationships.