Acceptable Boundary?

[fisher101]

Your choice to continue is completely your choice and I 100% resonate with you for not wanting to give up. It’s not easy and I get the sense I can feel how much you care and I admire it.

I think our only obligation to a partner (I say this loosely) is two fold… be the best person you can be (physically healthy, emotionally healthy, attractive, responsible etc) and that values them as a partner. As a 2nd I’d say not withhold something they are asking of you, if it is within your means to provide… NOT to fix them. Yes, you are responsible for the dynamic you two create, but only to the extent that your role is played in the dynamic - not to change your partner. Another analogy, if your partner decided to stop brishing his teeth and got some bad infection that was contagious, you’re not going to convince him to start brushing his teeth if he doesn’t want to, and withholding sex until he does - may likely not be the best approach —-, but you can refrain from kissing him.

The genesis for my response is I get the sense by reading your post that your desire for boundaries is to change your spouse - and I could be ENTIRELY wrong

My point squarely comes down to the “why” and the “intent” of what we do.  Changing a person or “fixing” someone becomes a very slippery slope to resentment, anger and shame.

I’m hopeful I’m adding value and not making it more difficult.  Again I understand this isn’t easy and it’s honorable you’re here seeking and continuing to do the work.  Kudos

You are not making things more difficult at all. I sincerely appreciate the perspectives you are sharing.

I don't want her to change who she is on a foundational level. I'm asking for really what amounts to a small change in behavior. I cannot control what she does. I get that. What I'm standing firm on is this...if she is truly cruel to me I'm not going to interact with her less than an hour later as if nothing happened. It takes and amazing amount of audacity to tell someone you hate them (literally) and then 30 minutes later ask them for help or to memory hole the incident.

I get it, its a test to see how bad she's screwed up. I'm not participating. Kids do this and it is a game I'm not going to play.

A question though, what do you mean by "not withhold something they are asking of you, if it is within your means to provide"?

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[hands down]

A question though, what do you mean by "not withhold something they are asking of you, if it is within your means to provide"?

I just mean in general, making yourself healthy and not withholding from your partner... and by not withholding i mean, at least for me its kinda tempting... they want this from me but they didn't do that..  she wants me to do XYZ out the trash but she didn't do ABC (more of a "general" statement, and not necessarily pointed at your scenario.   

[fisher101]

I just mean in general, making yourself healthy and not withholding from your partner... and by not withholding i mean, at least for me its kinda tempting... they want this from me but they didn't do that..  she wants me to do XYZ out the trash but she didn't do ABC (more of a "general" statement, and not necessarily pointed at your scenario.   

Oh yeah I get that. We, like all couple have had scenarios where one of us has been kinda lazy and it bothers the other one but that is just normal, at least to me.

[fisher101]

I should add when I say manipulation… . “Manipulation” isn’t always bad….

It’s a fine line…. Giving a child $50 bucks for an A works for a lot of folks.


I digress.  Lol

Yeah I agree. We all have an incentive/reward structure that respond to.

[fisher101]

Regarding your boundary, you could phrase it this way: “I’m happy to be of assistance when I’m treated kindly.”

I had to exercise this boundary today when my husband was really upset and out of sorts about another issue and he snapped at me for asking him to drop off a package at the UPS store since he was already going there. It really wasn’t about the package or me, it was something he was dealing with internally that had nothing to do with any of that.

Also we have tree trimmers working today to clear some parts of our property from a recent storm that knocked down some trees and he was upset that more wasn’t getting done.

When he returned from town, he angrily confronted me about the work that was  yet to be done and wanted me to confront the workers. I flatly stated that we’d given them a ton of work to do and I didn’t see that they were slacking off. It devolved into that I “wasn’t supporting” him and was dropping my end of the responsibility.

Since he was the one all fired up about it, and it wasn’t my issue, I wasn’t about to participate in some confrontation for which I didn’t think had any merit. So I went about my business.

Later he did apologize and said he’d been an a-hole and when he was walking back from the garage, the lead guy asked if we’d like to look at what they’d done. He asked if I’d go along too and I said sure.

It turns out that they had done a lot and he was fine with what they were doing, only adding a request that they also work on one particular area.

I hadn’t seen him that worked up about something in a long time, and he seldom directs his anger at me, but he did then, and he apologized for it. I still was upset, but I didn’t respond in kind, which probably made him even more upset, for it was clearly him who was creating problems, not me.

Later he saw it, apologized, and we moved on. This outcome was not how it used to be in the past. I’d get triggered, he’d get angrier, and it might take a day or two to get back to a normal pleasant space.

I like this specific example.

First I'll admit that we all overreact sometimes. We all snap and I think it usually has to do with some sort of preoccupation with some other irritation rather than the immediate situation.

Anyway, I've been in this scenario many times. I get a lot of "you don't believe me" or "not being supportive. Sometimes there is some merit to this but a lot of the times I don't "believe" things because they are not grounded in reality.

Having said that, your husband seems to "get it" a little more than my wife. Something to work on I suppose.

Making an assumption here, but was there a reason he didn't go take the issue up with the trimmers himself?

[GaGrl]

I also encourage you to to post on the Conflicted board.

[Cat Familiar]

Having said that, your husband seems to "get it" a little more than my wife. Something to work on I suppose.

It’s taken some time for both of us to get to this point. Late last night he seemed more reflective of his behavior earlier in the day and asked, “Is there anything I can do to make you feel better?”
 
I smiled, enjoying his remorse, and said, “l feel fine, thank you.” I’ve learned it’s more likely I’ll get an apology if I don’t ask for one.

Making an assumption here, but was there a reason he didn't go take the issue up with the trimmers himself?

He’s a city boy and I’m a country gal who has done a lot of that kind of work myself. I knew there was more than one day’s work there. Also contractors always end up talking to me instead of him because I speak their language, much to his dismay. 

[fisher101]

It’s taken some time for both of us to get to this point. Late last night he seemed more reflective of his behavior earlier in the day and asked, “Is there anything I can do to make you feel better?”
 
I smiled, enjoying his remorse, and said, “l feel fine, thank you.” I’ve learned it’s more likely I’ll get an apology if I don’t ask for one.

He’s a city boy and I’m a country gal who has done a lot of that kind of work myself. I knew there was more than one day’s work there. Also contractors always end up talking to me instead of him because I speak their language, much to his dismay. 

All of this seems like a reasonable outcome even if the process was uncomfortable.

By the way, my wife was a city girl, but she loves the country now. The further away from town the better. But you are right, if you didn't grow up around certain types of work it is tough to gauge process.

I agree on the apology thing. Forced ones don't mean as much.

One things I've been working on is just improving my deficiencies in the relationship. I don't want to be the person who blames everything on their spouse. It's too easy in this situation to dismiss her complaints. A lot of them are valid. Humility is important. She tolerates enough of my quirks that probably other people wouldn't.

Also it is important to appreciate her good qualities. There are quite a few. I don't know that anyone here cares to here about them, but I just dont' want to paint the picture that there is nothing good there.

[Cat Familiar]

Please do mention her good qualities. It’s helpful for us to get a balanced picture of her.

[fisher101]

Please do mention her good qualities. It’s helpful for us to get a balanced picture of her.

Sure. There are quite few.

I love that she is willing to do lot of things with out making plans. I'm not much of a planner and she is cool with just jumping in the car and doing stuff. Example would be deciding to go see a concert 4 hours away 6 hours before show time and buying tickets in the car on the way.

She is very present and mindful. I'm always lost in my thoughts. I forget everything. She helps me with this all the time. This also means she very rarely makes mistakes on things that matter.

She appreciates the little things in life. A pretty snowfall, and cool summer evening. Sitting by fires in fall. She loves nature.

She can be very generous to those who are less fortunate.

We share lot of the same tastes in things...music, movies, food, etc, just a ton in common. How many couples were in perfect agreement on buying a house? She loves animals and travel as much as I do which is saying something.

Her deep feelings balance out my lack of them sometimes. She tolerates my little eccentricities.

And I hate to sound superficial, but I definitely "married up" in the looks department.

I could go on but I think this is a good start.

 

[Cat Familiar]

It sounds like you’ve got a wonderful partner who is occasionally difficult. Let’s focus on what you can do to manage those times.

What do you think you could do that would be most helpful for the situations when she treats you in ways where you feel disrespected?

[fisher101]

It sounds like you’ve got a wonderful partner who is occasionally difficult. Let’s focus on what you can do to manage those times.

What do you think you could do that would be most helpful for the situations when she treats you in ways where you feel disrespected?

That is a great question. I'm not quite sure. Any suggestions?

[GaGrl]

One place to start is to see if you can identify specific situations in which she is triggered (not just by you, any situation).

Can you see a pattern? Think back on her last 4-5 times she was triggered.

[T0M]

Sure. There are quite few.

I love that she is willing to do lot of things with out making plans. I'm not much of a planner and she is cool with just jumping in the car and doing stuff. Example would be deciding to go see a concert 4 hours away 6 hours before show time and buying tickets in the car on the way.

She is very present and mindful. I'm always lost in my thoughts. I forget everything. She helps me with this all the time. This also means she very rarely makes mistakes on things that matter.

She appreciates the little things in life. A pretty snowfall, and cool summer evening. Sitting by fires in fall. She loves nature.

She can be very generous to those who are less fortunate.

We share lot of the same tastes in things...music, movies, food, etc, just a ton in common. How many couples were in perfect agreement on buying a house? She loves animals and travel as much as I do which is saying something.

Her deep feelings balance out my lack of them sometimes. She tolerates my little eccentricities.

And I hate to sound superficial, but I definitely "married up" in the looks department.

I could go on but I think this is a good start.

 

Haha, fisher, you married my girlfriend!

She is exactly the same person. Even the fact that I took a step up in the 'looks' department. And she never ever forgets something to a level it gets frustrating for me. She knows the birthdays of my friends better than me. But that is because she is so scared of forgetting something and being seen as a 'bad person' for that. If in a very rare occasion, she does forget something, she completely panics when she finds out. Also her house is covered with to do notes. She has a paper agenda, and a google agenda, and she puts everything in both of them and on post its.

Only difference is that if she founds out I forgot something that had to do with the two of us, she will freak out. lets say in the beginning of the week I say that it would be nice to go and see a movie on Friday, and on Thursday I say, maybe we can go and visit my Family on Friday (because I forgot I mentioned to go and see a movie). She will spiral down to a point were we just sit at home on Friday.

But is it fare to say your wife doesn't enjoy doing things with others? I'm a very extrovert person. I get loads of energy being around friends or others. And I'm very proud of my GF so I would like to have her with me. But she being an introvert, and BPD, this takes huge chunks of energy out of her. Energy that she most of the time doesn't have.

[fisher101]

Haha, fisher, you married my girlfriend!

She is exactly the same person. Even the fact that I took a step up in the 'looks' department. And she never ever forgets something to a level it gets frustrating for me. She knows the birthdays of my friends better than me. But that is because she is so scared of forgetting something and being seen as a 'bad person' for that. If in a very rare occasion, she does forget something, she completely panics when she finds out. Also her house is covered with to do notes. She has a paper agenda, and a google agenda, and she puts everything in both of them and on post its.

Only difference is that if she founds out I forgot something that had to do with the two of us, she will freak out. lets say in the beginning of the week I say that it would be nice to go and see a movie on Friday, and on Thursday I say, maybe we can go and visit my Family on Friday (because I forgot I mentioned to go and see a movie). She will spiral down to a point were we just sit at home on Friday.

But is it fare to say your wife doesn't enjoy doing things with others? I'm a very extrovert person. I get loads of energy being around friends or others. And I'm very proud of my GF so I would like to have her with me. But she being an introvert, and BPD, this takes huge chunks of energy out of her. Energy that she most of the time doesn't have.

There might some similarities yes. Neither one of are planners. We'd never make plans for a movie on Friday before Thursday, but it usually all spur-of-the-moment. Very frustrating for our families and friends as we won't commit to things further out than a few days usually. We are both introverted and only like to do things with certain people. If we go do something big both of us come home and recover for a day or two.

What I meant was she doesn't lose her keys/wallet/phone/etc like I do. She does remember the birthdays and such as well.