Do I invite father to my marriage ceremony?

[wmm]

My partner and I are planning to get married next Thursday at the wedding officiant's house with our two best friends as our witnesses (city hall  isn't doing weddings due to covid). I posted here several times about my family drama with my bpdM and covid issues regarding the larger wedding that was originally planned that I eventually cancelled.

My fiance and I never wanted a large wedding. I agreed to it initially because I was afraid to upset my mom and afraid that I would lose relationships with my family because she would keep them away from me by manipulating everyone. I have since gone NC with her.

My therapist is worried that I'm later going to regret not having my father at the ceremony. I would like to have him there but I'm worried that he would try to guilt me into bringing my mother and that I will be stressed before the ceremony. My possible plan was to make an excuse for him to come to my place right before the ceremony (for example, ask him to drive me to an appointment) and tell him when he got there that I was getting married and wanted him to come so that he wouldn't bring my mother. I think he would want to come but he would also, with good intentions, try to convince me to have my mother there.

I am doing a therapy called cognitive processing therapy to try to deal with my complex PTSD and not be afraid of my mother anymore or have abandonment issues.

My father came to visit my fiance and me at my place last Sunday. I invited him after he said twice that he missed us and wanted to get together, but I emphasized that my mother could not come. I was a nervous wreck the morning before he came. He hadn't received my messages since 4pm the day before via WhatsApp (it shows when a message has been received). I catastrophized and worried that my mom had found out that he was coming and she had taken his phone away or something and gotten into a fight with her. It turns out that my mother knew he was going to see me and my father relayed to me that my mother said hi and loved me (guilt trip). My fiance and I were also very worried that he was going to show up with my mom to try to get us to make amends. Luckily, when my fiance answered the door, it was just my father there. We had a nice time. He did ask twice when was I going to talk to my mom and resolve things. I explained to him that I had decided to not talk to her because she was too much to handle with her mental illnesses (bipolar, alcohol abuse, narcissist, and BPD) and I was sick of her abuse. He acknowledged that she was very mentally ill and hard to deal with but still said hopefully we could put it behind us soon. I think that part of him thinks it would be best if my mother and I made up but another part of him just doesn't want to deal with my mother being upset anymore because she's more dramatic and drinks more when she is upset.

Going NC with my mother has eased my anxiety so much. I no longer feel like I'm walking on eggshells most of the time and I don't get nervous when someone calls or texts me.

I know my family will be hurt when they find out that I got married without them (I'm not telling them until afterwards). I'll deal with that afterwards and eventually they'll get over it. If my mother wasn't so hard to deal with and we didn't have to deal with covid issues, I would have definitely have had my family there. Unfortunately, this is not the reality.

Yesterday, before my therapy session, I did think briefly that it would be nice to have my father there, but I didn't dwell on it. I don't even remember how the issue of whether or not my father should come came up in therapy. I wish my therapist hadn't pushed. We are doing this small ceremony in order to have a stress free day and just concentrate on enjoying the fact that we're getting married and celebrate our love for each other. We will be going out for dinner afterwards with our two best friends. Now I'm feeling very torn about whether or not I should invite my father. I don't want to regret not having him there but I also want to have a relaxing, drama free day.

My fiance's aunt offered to pay for a party later on. I don't want to do it because our families are very messy and it would be stressful. It would be more for other people, but it would mean that I would get to celebrate my marriage to my fiance with my father. I'd much rather spend that money on a honeymoon but I think his aunt really wants us to have a wedding.

My therapist wanted me to weigh whether I would regret inviting my father and stressing myself out (we're not, and can't, get married until 5pm that day) or whether I would regret more not having my father there. What should I do?

[GaGrl]

I can understand why you would want your dad at your ceremony. I can also see how the logistics of making that happen could be very, very stressful.

What might be the effect on your dad if he attends without your mom?

[wmm]

He'll probably feel guilty or bad for my mom. I think in the long run he'll appreciate it. It would create a lot of drama probably.

[Teabunny]

Ultimately this is your personal soul-searching answer time and nobody knows what's best for you except yourself.

I'll share something that may help you decide.

About 15 years ago my husband and I eloped to have a quiet marriage away from families and large ceremony, and followed through with the family and friends wedding a couple weeks later. Neither day was perfect and there are aspects we enjoyed and regret about each day. But our best lesson was: it's just one part of one day of our lifetime. Honestly, it doesn't matter in the big picture long-term what we did or didn't do. My BPD mom will be upset, with dad enabling her, no matter what I do.

The most important thing for us is that we love each other every day, celebrating often, not just once. We built an intentional lifestyle founded upon shared values and goals that also addresses "roommate issues" that can be misperceived as relationship issues. That day years ago was just one day; I did have to mourn the loss of the "perfect" stress-free small wedding I'd dreamed about with its traditional honeymoon we never took, but that's more about acknowledging something unreal or impossible. It was never about our choices but our cognitive distortions.

[GaGrl]

My husband and I had a small wedding in our living room. Even that was not without BPD drama, as H's uBPD/NPD ex attempted to come to the house during the reception.

Teabunny is right -- it is one small part of one day in the rest of your lives together. You can plan accordingly.

I do advise minimizing the drama.

[Notwendy]

One thing to keep in mind is that your father is married to your mother. He is part of this dysfunctional pattern and is probably enmeshed and enables her. She's upset with you and you are in (Karpman triangle) persecutor position. She's in victim position and your father likely gains something from rescuer to her.

I know he loves you, but from my own experience, I don't think you can compete with this. If you do invite him and not her and she finds out, he will side with her. If he doesn't, the consequences to him will be rough. Remember, he lives with her and you don't.

It is also possible he may show up with her.

I also grew up with this triangle. I did have a relationship with my father that I thought did not always include my mother. I was more attached to him as a parent. But I learned later that she read my emails to him, listened in to phone calls and anything I said to him was shared with her. I think this helped him stay in her good graces to do this. However, his rescuer role was so strong that if she was at all distressed with me, he'd side with her. So basically she could be as abusive as she wanted with me, but if something I did, or didn't do upset her - he'd be angry at me.

While your counselor may have a point, I don't know if she knows just how enmeshed your parents are. I did go NC with my BPD mother briefly in college at the advice of a counselor after disclosing her behaviors to them. But I still wanted contact with my Dad and arranged to visit just him. Well he picked me up and drove straight to the house to see her. Your family is a system. You have broken the dynamics by not being involved. This makes them uncomfortable. I recall having boundaries and my father emailed me "I just want to be a happy family again" As if dealing with BPD mom was happy. No, he just wanted me to go along with her.

I would have felt that way in your position. I loved my Dad and cherish the special moments we had but my parents were a pair, if I wanted to include Dad, that meant BPD mom too. If I had tried to just have him, it would not have worked, he would have told her, brought her, or she'd have raged on him if she found out. If put in the position to choose between what I wanted, or what she wanted, it was going to be her. While I understand you wish to have just your Dad, also consider he lives with her. He'd have to keep the secret, which may be hard for him to do. And what would happen for him if she found out?

[GaGrl]

Based on what NotWendy brings up, you may need to weigh inviting your dad and taking the chance/weighing the odds he shows up with your mother, or your mother follows him -- and by that time of day, she probably would be inebriated.

[Turkish]

One thing to keep in mind is that your father is married to your mother. He is part of this dysfunctional pattern and is probably enmeshed and enables her. She's upset with you and you are in (Karpman triangle) persecutor position. She's in victim position and your father likely gains something from rescuer to her.

I know he loves you, but from my own experience, I don't think you can compete with this. If you do invite him and not her and she finds out, he will side with her. If he doesn't, the consequences to him will be rough. Remember, he lives with her and you don't.

Exactly this. His relationship with his wife is by function and design stronger than his relationship with you, just as yours is and will be with your husband. This is regardless of love and affection.  A parent might like and love his or her child more than his or her spouse, but that isn't what this is about. I'll give him props for seeing you alone though. We've seen too many stories of emotional cutoff here.

Notwendy has a great handle on Family Systems.

[zachira]

You love your father; he is kind to you, and of course, you would like to have him at your wedding. There are several married couples in my family in which the wife is disordered and has her husband who seems to be such a dear man completely wrapped around her finger. I think Notwendy is right that only inviting your father will has some consequences for him and you, with your mother right in the thick of things manipulating the whole scenario, whether she shows up at your wedding uninvited and/or really takes it out on your father later. I doubt he will come without her from what you have shared.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Ultimately this is your personal soul-searching answer time and nobody knows what's best for you except yourself.

But our best lesson was: it's just one part of one day of our lifetime. Honestly, it doesn't matter in the big picture long-term what we did or didn't do. My BPD mom will be upset, with dad enabling her, no matter what I do.

I agree with his wholeheartedly. In the end, it is your heart and you know yourself best. The best I can offer is sharing my own experience..

I got married 6 years ago. Like you, I just went in and sign paper... And one year later, we arranged a big party for our friends and families.

Funny enough, this was back when I was still entangled with my uBPDm. The signing went well, she was happy I had her with me instead of my father, whom she hates. And at the big wedding, she caused me a lot of grief and it ended in a big fight via phone the next week end because I was very very angry at her.

Now.. I could regret not having my father with me during the signing. After all, I am much closer to him now that I realized my uBPDm actually worked very hard to have me hate him and succeeded for a while. I could also regret giving in to my uBPDm and changing in her tiny room, with her instead of with my best friend (leading to a lot of emotional stress because I had to care for her emotions on my wedding day). But in the end: I don't really regret anything, because I don't really care.

It was a party. The first was a signature. I understand it feels special but in the end : I care more for my marriage than I care for that one day when I had one wedding.

I think, whichever way you choose to go, I could recommend giving yourself a break and seeing it for what it is : this day is a promise between you and your husband.

In the end, when my uPBDm caused me grief during the big wedding, I turned to my husband and he'd smile and take care of the issue and proceeded to dance with me... In the end, he is what I remember from this day, the rest is secondary.

As for my father, I don't regret him not being there for the signature. He was there for the big ceremony... But my brother brought me down the aisle. I was not mad at my father but this was just the dynamic I had to uphold to keep uBPDm happy... I made it so one brother brought me down the aisle, and the other had us share our vows. It was still kinda cool. And I don't regret, because in the end: my father and I now have a true and good relationship and we will for years to come, because now my eyes are finally opened. And what happened on ONE day does not define our relationship.

So... Search inside and do whatever you feel is best for you today and chances are you won't regret it. Also, don't make it bigger than it need the be. The big thing is not the signature, it's not the wedding... It's that you finally found someone you love this much and want to share your life with. It's amazing. So congratulations! And remember it's about you two more than about anyone else...

Just my two cents. Take what fits, discard the rest.

Best wishes for your married life

[Notwendy]

My own wedding, many years ago, was completely arranged by my BPD mother. I wasn't even sure of the guest list- my H and I had invited some of our friends but most of the guests were my mother's friends and family. I was still used to being completely compliant with BPD mother's wishes.

Probably the best memory of the wedding is that when I was getting ready- BPD mom wasn't there! This is because she was off getting herself ready and she looked beautiful at my wedding. So it was my maid of honor helping me and then when I was dressed, my Dad was there helping me. I don't think that would have been possible if BPD mom was there as she needed to be the center of attention, so for that time, I was one on one with Dad.

Dad walked me down the aisle and I walked into a room full of people - most of who I didn't even recognize. Some of them had not seen me since I was a baby and I had no idea who they were. I did get to see the friends of mine who were there and I did greet all the guests, but basically this was my mother's party and Dad agreed to what she wanted. It was a lovely event- the venue was lovely, the food was good, but I had nothing to do with it.

My own taste was simpler and smaller, but that would not have been acceptable to BPD mom who prefers elaborate events. I did get to choose my dress, it was a simple style because I was more comfortable with that.

Hindsight is 2020 and we can't know what would have happened had we taken another course. Sometimes I wonder if it had been better to elope, but there'd be drama over that as well, as then BPD mom would not have gotten to have the big party she wanted and my parents would have probably reacted like yours did. At the time though, not only did I not know to ask for what I wanted, I didn't even know what I would have wanted as being compliant to whatever BPD mom wanted was what I knew to do. Having boundaries with her would happen later.

In summary- my wedding day was only one day in the course of my family now. There are many other events since then that have importance for me.  I don't even look at my wedding pictures much. There's other things I prefer to focus on.

[kells76]

wmm, I wonder if there's a way to "have both" -- have a special time with just you and your dad related to your wedding, and also not have the drama of "do I invite just him or not".

Could you do a "wedding breakfast" or something where just he is invited, but it's very small and maybe just you and your dad and your fiance (if you want, or whoever) out to breakfast/brunch?

And then instead of inviting him to the ceremony (where there is risk that your mom will attend without your OK or even if she doesn't, she'll hear about it)... invite neither to the "signing the papers" ceremony? Because you already had "your time" with your dad earlier?

I feel you wanting to share a really special time of your life with your dad, and recognizing that you don't want to share it with your mom in the same way. Hopefully some "thinking outside the box" can help you find a way to honor that -- that you want your dad involved in your wedding celebration in a certain way, that is not the same feeling you have regarding your mom.

[zachira]

My aunt could not come to my cousin's wedding and was heartbroken. After the wedding, my cousin invited my aunt to her house for dinner and surprised her by wearing her wedding dress. Could you plan a surprise like this with your father?

[beatricex]

wmm,
  I think it was today?  How did it go?
 
b

[wmm]

This is all very helpful. We are getting married in February 3rd at 5pm EST. I was able to find a last minute photographer so there will be photos that I can show my Dad. I have decided not to invite him. My therapist wants me to challenge myself and not be afraid of my mom but I don't think my wedding day is the best day to do that. I will miss him. I like the idea of doing something separate with him another time. Now that it is only a few days away, I'm getting nervous about telling my family afterwards. I don't want to not be able to tell people so I'll have to tell them but I know they will be hurt and upset. I'm trying to decide if I should rip off the bandaid and tell them sooner than later after the event or wait a bit

[GaGrl]

Wmm, my parents were married on Feb 3 in a small home ceremony (specifically because her uBPD/NPD stepmother was anticipated to be a "problem." They were married over 65 years.

I'm so happy for you!

Don't get ahead of yourself -- just enjoy the week.

[Turkish]

Nothing wrong with eloping. My buddy's older sister eloped to Hawaii from California.. I think mostly not to have to choose between her mother and father as she remained close to both after the nasty divorce. Mother had detached from my buddy and their younger sister, a further complication. It would have been complicated.

This is about you. 

Have your day, starting your new life, and to from there.

[Notwendy]

I understand the stress of how to tell them, but keep in mind- there's no way to tell them without them getting upset. Your mother will blame you no matter what. Also it may help to understand that this is how they react. You don't want to hurt them, you didn't make this decision with the motive to hurt them. They choose this response, rather than to try to understand. Your mother chooses victim perspective- it's her way of thinking and you can't change that.

Looking at these things in perspective- my choices have either been to be completely compliant with what my BPD mother wants, to have no boundaries with her in terms of my own privacy- tell her everything - or choose to make decisions and have boundaries and the result is that "I have done something terrible to hurt her" and she gets upset and rages. This has happened many times so my choice is walk on eggshells, or she's angry at me.

And no matter how many times I say "yes" to her requests, if I ever say "no" - it's the worst thing ever and I am a terrible daughter. Now that my children have grown, there are aspects of their lives they don't want to share with her. Like if they are dating anyone. If she finds out, or they eventually tell her, she's upset because they didn't tell her immediately. Once we took a family trip to see my father's side of the family. We knew she'd be upset as she'd want us to visit her instead, but we didn't plan this trip in order to hurt her. We wanted to see these relatives. So we were stressed about telling her because we knew how she'd react.

She doesn't make the connection that it is this reaction that has prompted us to leave her out of things. We don't want to hurt her feelings but if we want to have our own happy family trip or event, we can not include her. We have included her many times and the event then becomes focused on her and her wishes.

Knowing that the reaction is likely to be the same no matter when you tell your parents- consider keeping your wedding and honeymoon time ( even if you don't go anywhere) between the two of you. This can be a happy time for the two of you.

[wmm]

So I finally tied the knot!

My sister called me crying and told me how upset she was. She didn't say congratulations or anything. Most people have been supportive. She told me both of my parents are very upset. I asked my dad to let me tell my sister and he said that he would but he told her anyways when he told my mom (I told him I still wasn't talking to my mom). I felt like my sister was gaslighting me. She told me I was isolating myself. She said that she and I had not been close for a long time and we were pretending like we were. It's true that we haven't been close. She's barely talked to me since I stopped talking to my mom. When she got covid I asked her how she was every day. She wants me to repair relationships with my family.

We were going to have a party in the summer. I don't want to have my mom there but I told my dad I'd talk to my mom before the party and she could come. I basically said that to make him happy. I don't even want to have a party that much. It's more for people who felt left out of the wedding. My husband's dad was upset that he couldn't go and his grandmother would have liked to have been there but she was still happy.

I was so upset with my sister. She talked to me like my mom does.

The important thing is that we had a good time. I don't regret it. I expected my mother to be upset. I wish my sister could have at least said congratulations. She didn't want to see any photos.

[Turkish]

Even in a non- BPD family, eloping can elicit "butt-hurt" as the kids say these days. My buddy and his wife wanted a small ceremony. There were no more than 25 people there, at 2000 ft elevation. I was best man. It was mostly elderly folks who couldn't travel over the 8000ft pass to attend the later party in Lake Tahoe (6k ft at lake level). My friend got static from his non elderly relatives about the actual ceremony, despite the boat party a few months later. You can't please everybody. I'm sorry that your sister is being a pill.

[beatricex]

Hi wmm,
woo hoo!  congratulations!

About your sister.  Is it time to have that talk?  It starts like this "sis, I love you and we have always been close...do you think it's time our relationship moves beyond always talking about Mom, why Mom is upset, what Mom thinks, Mom mom mom.  I am a person with needs and wants of my own you know?  Could we talk about something else."

Then you do that pivot and actually talk about something else.

This didn't actually work with me and my sisters, but I always dreamed it would with someone here.  The thing is, your sister may not actually see any benefit of breaking the family script (you do but she's in a much different place), sis may be perfectly happy being your mom's flying  monkey forever.

I know this is incredibly difficult, you're doing great.

b

[Riv3rW0lf]

I agree with beatricex !

My relationship with my brother turned 180deg when I told him I wouldn't talk with him about my mother, father and other brother... Ever.

It didn't help neither of us to talk about our past because we don't see it the same way. He is still looking for blame, while I am looking to understand and move beyond. I quickly realized that talking about the past with him was not even helping him deal with it in a healthy way. And so I stopped.

And surprisingly, he now confides in me things about his present that aren't working out and we can look for solutions instead of blame. Our relationship is much better this way, with no one else to meddle between us.

[wmm]

I really like the idea of not talking to my mom with my sister. An issue is that my sister and I haven't been close since the spring of 2020. She talked about me behind my back with my parents and accused me of being a hypochondriac because she, nor my parents, understood what post-concussion syndrome was (it took me about 5 months to recover from a severe concussion). She almost always takes the side of my mother and defends her. The way she talks to me, whether about my mother or not, reminds me of how my mother talks to me. I don't think that she has BPD but she spends so much time with my mother that she reminds me of her sometimes. Should I leave all of the past issues that I have with my sister in the past and not talk about it. I feel like she blames me for a lot of things and would keep blaming me if we didn't discuss it. Whether we fix things or not, I don't feel like I can trust her because she always relays things to my mother. My sister wants me to engage with my family again but I don't want to be caught up in the toxic and dysfunctional family dynamics again. I'd rather not have her in my life than have to go back to how things were before.

[Riv3rW0lf]

From your last post, indeed, your sister seems pretty enmeshed with your mother. In that case, keeping a relationship with her will bring toxicity into your life. Since you already mentioned not needing that kind of toxicity in your life right now, then I think you are right in putting distance between your sister and you.

Focus on your husband and friends, the family you have chosen, the family that makes you happy. Focus on yourself and on your own present needs.

The truth is, your sister might just have accepted your mother's perspective as reality and has chosen to take a side. If my brother was like that, I wouldn't keep in touch with him. The only reason we are still talking is because he is looking to better himself and he is starting to see that something is off with uBPDm. I still have to be careful what I tell him, because he does tell her everything, but at least, he is not a source of conflict.

Your sister sounds like a source of conflict and undue stress... Maybe this will change some time down the road, but as a newlywed, I think you deserve a healthy, stress-free and loving moment with your husband.

Congratulations by the way

[zachira]

Congratulations on your marriage! I have so much respect for you in the courage you have shown.What has been most heartbreaking for me is to realize after the death of my mother with BPD that she was just the tip of the iceburg as far as problematic family members, including my siblings and other flying monkeys who will do anything to enable the whole dysfunctional immediate and extended family systems. It is so complicated trying to figure out what are the healthy boundaries you will need to set with family members now that you are married. You clearly want the wellbeing of your marriage to come first and when/if you decide to have children their wellbeing will come first. People with family members with BPD at different times come to the cross roads, when it is no longer going to work to go along with being mistreated. For some like yourself, and many others who post here, it is getting married. For others, it has been when they had children, and in no way were they going to allow their children to be mistreated the way they were. You are facing having to set more boundaries and lots of resistence from those family members like your father and sister who want nothing to change because if they did, it would mean looking at their own personal pain and losses from being a part of such a dysfunctional family. In the difficult moments, it can help to remember that the healthy boundaries you set with your challenging family members are also healthy boundaries for them as well.

[Methuen]

So I finally tied the knot!

Congratulations wmm!  I am so happy for you!  And congrats again for finding the strength to do it on your terms, your way.  I take my hat off to you.  

I hope you are finding time and special moments to enjoy each other, and celebrate your love and your union with each other.  Not sure if you are doing a honeymoon away , but if not, I’m thinking a private “stay at home honeymoon” might be a great way to insulate from family!  “Do not disturb! Honeymooners on a honeymoon! Thanks for our privacy!” (Aka code for holiday from family )

[wmm]

Thank you everyone! We took the Friday and weekend to spend together. We are saving up for a honeymoon, among other things. Although there have been some fallouts, I don't regret it at all.

 My husband wants to have a party with everyone that didn't attend the ceremony. His aunt offered to pay for it without getting involved (she has been very supportive of us throughout our relationship). He mostly wants to have it because his grandmother won't be around much longer and he is very close to his father. I'd rather not have my mother there but I think that if I'm going to have the rest of my family there I'd have to have her come too. I'd have to talk to her ahead of time. I definitely won't talk to her until I'm done my cognitive processing therapy sessions.

I realized that deep down, I'm afraid of abandonment. This stems from my mother leaving for days sometimes when I was little and we didn't know where she went because we didn't have cellphones. We would get a phone call from a shelter or a hospital sometimes saying she was there. Now there are cellphones and she's wealthy enough to go to a hotel when she wants to try to prove a point. Also, the suicide attempts and many threats don't help my fear of abandonment either.

Should I go through with inviting my mother (our relationship won't go back to the way it was) or can anyone think of some alternatives?

[GaGrl]

How generous of your H's aunt!

You might wait a short while before the party. I don't see any "gracious" way to exclude your mother, but I certainly wouldn't allow her to participate in any part of planning -- that's what started this whole scenario months ago, right?

So knowing that she is alcoholic and badly behaved, what can you do to minimize her potential disruption? Some brides on this forum have asked a family member to monitor the pwBPD and distract them or even escort them out of the reception should it get bad enough.

[Turkish]

So knowing that she is alcoholic and badly behaved, what can you do to minimize her potential disruption? Some brides on this forum have asked a family member to monitor the pwBPD and distract them or even escort them out of the reception should it get bad enough.

We've seen this a few times here and it's a good idea. Do you have allies that might help with this?

[wmm]

I don't really want to host a party. We might have a dinner at my husband's aunt's house for his family and then small get togethers with other people. I don't want to see my mother and I do not think the party would be enjoyable at all with her there. I don't see my family wanting to participate if she's not invited. I haven't talked to my younger sister who was upset with me in a week. I tried reaching out to be brother and the never replied to me. I've spoken to me dad over text but that's it.