He returned after two months, help

[judee]

atm I don't have many people to share this with.. any response is welcome.

A recap, my exw BPD and me broke op two months ago after a turbulent three month relationship. I broke it off because of his inappropriate anger and my own fear of being in a relationship with someone with this disorder. At the time, I fell deeply in love, more than I ever fell.. we were in bliss for about 8 weeks ( with a few red flags) after that things started spiralling down quickly ( red flag galore)
We went NC in dec 2021 and I knew I was going to be able to stay like that as long as he wouldn't contact me.

A few days ago, he did. He wrote me he was worried about me because he received the package back he was trying to send to me with my stuff.
Now , I know this is an excuse to look for contact because I didn't have any stuff at his house. When I asked him what, he mentioned some worthless things like an empty glass bottle and mint oil.
Anyway I asked him if he was over us and he said 'no'.
He came by yesterday, I still wonder how the heart and mind communicate because when I see him I seem to lose my ability to think with my head.
Stars in my eyes, back in love ..but something just feels off.
I feel like I have been stung by him ( we didn't have sex btw and now I am numb and he can have his way with me again. that is how I feel.
We talked a lot.. long story short:
I talked about what scared me about this relationship.
He told me I needed therapy for my distrust. It felt weird that it was mostly about what was ' wrong' with me and we didn't talk about his irrational anger and control issues.
( deep down I feel correct for not trusting him)
We cuddled and kissed a bit when he expressed my new heels he saw in the corner made him really insecure. I asked why.
He continued "You are a beautiful woman I am sure a lot of guys want to be with you.. and I wonder what happened here in the time I was gone and who you wear those boots with? "
I reassured him that he is the only one, that there can be a zillion en front me I do not care. I said that nothing happened in the time he was gone. ( absolutely nothing DID happen)
5 Minutes later he looked at my hands and said I have old man's hands. I felt a bit hurt and he said "don't worry I love them, I have really ugly hands too!".. I didn't know what to think. Then he felt my arm and said: not that strong.
He told me I was stinky and had more gray hair than him .
Then he turned around and started sniffing my armpits and saying I LOVE IT !
Then he said I need better glasses and I need to work more, so I won't be focussed on him not answering my messages. ( I don't mind little contact when someone is busy. It can however upset me when he just leaves messages unanswered for the whole day, I can see him online and see he's read them, and I feel he is doing it on purpose to undermine my self-confidence)

I said , I don't buy it, you just said you felt insecure and now you are finding all these this wrong with my body.
I told him that hurt and he said he never meant to hurt me , it was a new-found freedom he said felt just to express these things.
I tried to laugh it off.
I feel weak and confused right now... am I being overly sensitive that I find this hurtful? Can it just be meant cute and loving?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[mitten]

Wow, there's a lot of confusing stuff going on here.   First of all, it sounds like he is trying to tear you down so that you think you're not worthy of any other partner besides him. 

It sounded like you were doing well on your own without him as long as he didn't make contact.  But then everything reverted to the old ways when you let him back in.  Are you able to speak to a therapist about this and your intentions to let go? 

[Cat Familiar]

The heart and the mind in conflict—a very familiar theme for those of us who get involved with people with BPD.

The warmth and love they give us when they are wooing us is difficult to resist, and often so much more intense than anything we have experienced previously with emotionally healthy partners. It’s so tempting to believe in the fairytale, but unfortunately it doesn’t last very long.

What I find interesting in this interaction is that he seemed to assume that he had secured your love, then almost immediately he utilized words to try and undermine your confidence, as mitten pointed out.

When relationship discussions abruptly turn into a listing of your problems, it seems likely you are speaking with an abuser.

[alterK]

Judee, I would second what Cat says, and add that there are red flags galore in the conversation you've recounted.

He lied to you about the "package" and his excuses for wanting to see you.

He's blaming and criticizing you. You need therapy. You have grey hair. Etc.

He's jealous of things that aren't even happening.

He's over-reacting to small things that obviously make him feel super-insecure.

Don't blame yourself for wanting him back. It is hard to deal with emotions that are so intense.

However, don't fool yourself. If you let this person back into your life, he won't change. No matter how much you hope he will. He has put forth his best effort to win you, and already he has (let me avoid 4-letter words here!) introduced major problems. Fear and insecurity are what underlie his behavior. Probably something in you senses that, and so you feel for him.

But you can't solve his problems, and he won't change the way he treats you until he actually starts to change himself. That is a long process, and it sounds like he is far from even beginning it.

[judee]

Mitten , Cat F and AlterK,

Thank you for taking the time to give your take on on it... you mirror what you think is going on and  I am so grateful for that.
I  thought to give as much of an objective summary of what happened.
Considering you basically say the same thing it gives me so much support.

I wrote down in a long letter this morning how I feel and what I truly think is happening. Thinking about sending it to him, I know that when I do it will be all over. Maybe I will run it by here before I do. Maybe I will never send it. it helped anyway to write it out.
I just came back from a long run and now I am going out with two friends to jump in an ice-cold pond. Rid myself of all this horribleness. Thanks again you guys. 

[Cat Familiar]

If you feel inclined to send it, do post it here first and we’d be glad to give our take on it.

[mitten]

I just came back from a long run and now I am going out with two friends to jump in an ice-cold pond. Rid myself of all this horribleness.

Wow, that's one way to do it!  haha

[judee]

Hi guys,

I woke up this morning and I wrote him.

' You wanted to contact me because you love and missed me, not because of an undelivered package.. you use a symbol of rejection/closure ( returning my stuff)  when you actually want to say the opposite.
You feel like you can take the freedom to say negative and hurtful things about my relationship with my friends, about my body, about where I fail to work harder when I am fighting to get my health back ( I was diagnosed with crohn's disease in October).
A lot with you seems to be about shaming me, making me feel inadequate.
It must be because you feel like that inside.
Why I need therapy to trust you.
 I don't right now. I don't because of these things and the anger I got from you about things that were not there. This is not about BPD, but it is abusive behaviour.'

[judee]

(the rest of the conversation, posting it because it makes me wobble again,.. )
 
His reply to my msg above: I am sorry, who is doing the shaming?
Me: Is it shaming to tell you the things that are hurtful to me? Is it shaming to call you out on abusive behaviour? Is it shaming to fight for health, kindness closeness?
Him: is it shaming to tell you you are not perfect but I love you anyway? is it shaming to be open about my weakness and misgivings? ( referring to him expressing my shoes made him insecure)
Me: It is not shaming to tell me I am not perfect. I know I am not. It is abusive to start criticising my body and then say: but I love you anyway. That is deliberately trying to tear someone down.

[alterK]

You are trying to use facts and rationality with a person who uses their perceptions and their reality totally differently than you do. I am sorry if this sounds blunt, but your hopes of persuading him to understand things from your point of view will almost certainly not be fulfilled.

Don't look for validation from him. He is too desperately involved in his own emotions and his need to control you, and to see himself as blameless. You need to work on yourself and find validation elsewhere. This will make you stronger and you won't be so frustrated with him.

[mitten]

Agree with alterK.  The only thing good that could come from writing something to him is the closure it could bring to you... but most of the time it will just go badly and you'll get sucked in, manipulated, guilted, etc.  He'll play dumb.  

Most people here find the "don't JADE" method one of the most effective tools to deescalate and not get involved in BPD drama. Are you familiar with it?  It stands for Don't JUSTIFY, ARGUE, DEFEND, OR EXPLAIN".  

So I'd recommend no more communication until you've worked out a plan with a therapist that understand BPD.  Or things will continue to go South after all the progress you've made.  

[judee]

AterK , no it doesn't sound blunt, it sounds true. It is crazy making. confronting that I am still looking for validation from him as you put it... was not fully aware of that.

Mitten,
It is true that for me it is an enormous relief to say out loud what I feel is happening. I have been terrified of doing so and let everything build up. that is out now, in a not even very emotional way. That feels honest to myself.
But you are right, it will and is only going south.
I will stop the conversation. I have to to it regardless, he seems to find a button to lure me out every time anyway.

You really helped me big time, thank you from my heart.

[mitten]

Glad we could help.  Writing is therapeutic.  What if you journaled privately instead of sending notes?  Some members here even write really long posts to get things off their chests.  That's okay too.

[judee]

I think I have to move this post to the detaching board.. the conversation did indeed go down. I left it on Thursday night but it continued yesterday most of the day. He was defending his intentions with criticising my body were showing me that he could even love me despite my imperfections. He wants to be able to do this, he continued.

I called him mentally ill. I regret that.. Apologised and took it back. Confusing however because deep down I do believe he is ill.

I read on this site the criteria of a healthy relationship and a healthy partner. It was confronting, because almost all of them don't apply to him. When I went on and read about 'symptoms' of not being able to set boundaries, almost all applied to me.

[Cat Familiar]

It’s hard to face the truth, but so much better to do so, rather than engage in wishful thinking. 

Please start a new thread on Detaching and feel free to post wherever you feel most comfortable at any point.

[judee]

I didn't move it yet, but mainly because I didn't look how to.

A week ago I sent him this: 'Maybe I have had trouble trusting you. Deep down  I know I am right that I don't. I wanted to give it a shot too but realise I can never live a healthy life in a relationship like this. I have to start trusting myself again, you violated that by pushing on me what you wanted me to think/feel/do. getting upset if I didn't. Creating off limit subjects, silencing, getting angry for no reason. You had me walking on eggshells and apologising for things I never should have. I truly loved you but this has got to stop. Maybe I 'll see you in another life, when we are both cats. '

He tried to call me twice right after this message ( after being unresponsive for days, 'because he needed to cool down' after I used the word 'weird' )
I didn't pick up. 
In love or not, I have to focus on my own healing, work, joy. I totally have had enough.

[Cat Familiar]

When you realize that what’s most important is to focus on your own health and wellbeing, you are already doing a lot of work towards healing after a dysfunctional relationship. 

[judee]

So just when I think its going well. First week NC ( attempt)
I had a good week...a presentation on Monday that went well. Visited my parents afterwards, had a lovely time with a friend from Switzerland that came to visit. Lot of sun, laughs, care.
Right when i waved my friend goodbye and walked back home, a package got delivered. I expected some other packages so I automatically openened it,.. didn't notice the sender until I took everything out.
He sent me pictures of him and me in fun times, and litteraly all the presents I ever got him. ( small things mainly)..
If he wanted to return gifts,  why didn't he do that in the other package with 'my stuff' that was still at his house?
Why the pictures, and no note whatsoever ?
It feels to me he is just looking for contact, provoking me for a response.. and -like many times before-, using a symbol of rejection to get my attention.
It does hurt and it IS very hard not to say anything.

[mitten]

Wow.  This does sound like they are trying to hurt you.  Does realizing this make you less attracted to them?

[judee]

Mitten, I had to sleep on that one... I don't know about attraction but it definetely
snaps me back to reality. If he can't express his anger in words he will use silent treatments or use other (passive) aggressive ways to show it, like this.
I told him he didn't have to send these things back, they were presents.. and that the love I gave them with will always be there. I told him what I started this message with (about passive aggressive ) and that I am sorry that we broke up.
I asked him if he could stop sending me things or try to contact me in any other way.

I feel heartbroken. It is like the past four months he has been permanently angry and I kept looking for the manual to get the other 'him' back... it only seemed to get worse. I am grieving the loss of that love and a kind man. It feels like it never existed... but I did it. I didn't let myself be dragged in again.
Thank you all for the support.