Realizations about what healthy moms do

[Teabunny]

Over the past year, with many support resources like this forum, it's dawned on me some of the things my mom did / is doing which are the result of her mental illness (probably BPD) and I wanted to share because these are sort of common sense yet caught me by surprise due to being raised in an unhealthy family dynamic. It seems so normal.

After each one, I write what a healthy mother might have done instead (and we can "parent" ourselves to some extent as adults now).

• Grandma is in the hospital and doctors say she will recover. Mom first withholds information until she sees that someone else told me and I sent Grandma a card; then, Mom has grandma or a relative read my card/letter aloud so she knows what I wrote. Mom messages me and makes it sound like Grandma is dying, that the world is hell, that I need to make mom feel better by comforting mom and appreciating her as a mother. Realization: Healthy mothers probably know that their children may be upset by Grandma's sickness and/or death, and will comfort or support their children, and not exaggerate the gravity of a situation and not withhold important information. It's empowering to know that I can get this information on my own, comfort Mom at a distance and validate her feelings without agreeing with her cognitive distortions (such as "grandma sick = we'll never be able to speak to grandma again") with boundaries in place, and take care of my feelings for loved ones even if Mom can't do that.
• Mom tries to make dad and I dislike each other and prevent us from communicating unless she can listen in (triangulation). Realization: I saw a movie recently where the mother gazed lovingly at a father and their daughter bonding and laughing in another room. Healthy mothers actually encourage bonds between their kids and their partners; this is actually a benefit to keep the family healthy. My mom has never realized that trying to triangulate my dad and I actually pushes me further away from her (Dad does this, too, and ditto for pushing me away from him). As adults, we can choose to have connections to our fathers IF they also choose this. Also, I have set a boundary that I won't listen to either parent vilify the other anymore.

Other similar realizations:

Healthy moms want their grown married children to have strong healthy marriages and don't try to get their kids to hate their spouse and commiserate with mommy who hates daddy. Keep asserting our truth of a healthy marriage, enjoy it, and love who we love. 

It's more important to a healthy mom to be part of their children's lives in age-appropriate ways, ask how their kids are doing etc, rather than to receive counseling from their children at any age. Choose not to be replacement counselors.

Healthy moms don't need their kids to have the same hobbies they do, and encourage reading, exploration, learning, trying new things. Keep trying new things, and love what you love!

[Methuen]

Teabunny, I love this thread.  To me it's a "growth" thread.  As I was reading your post, I could relate to every point you made, and I thought, all I have to add to this is ditto!  You've already covered all the main points I would have. But, I am going to share one memory that came to me, in the hopes that perhaps I can release it, and every other bad memory using the technique you have outlined.

When I was 5, my mom came screaming at me that I had been a bad girl because I had broken all the branches off of every cherry tree.  I was so scared.  She was "mad", out of control, and accusing me of something I didn't even know had happened.  I tried to tell her I hadn't broken any branches but she wouldn't listen.  This was in the morning.  I was sent "to bed" without any lunch or supper and not allowed to come out of my room for the whole day.  My dad came home late that day.  I could hear them talking.  Dad came into my room and told me I could come out now.  I know you all figured it out in the first sentence already - but he had pruned the fruit trees.  I was only 5, and couldn't even have reached the bottom branch.  Mom never said sorry afterwards, nor did she even talk to me.  I think my dad offered me food, but I doubt I felt much like eating.  A healthy mom would not have had an emotional reaction to seeing branches on the ground all around the trees.  A healthy mom would have figured out that a runt of a 5 year old daughter couldn't have done all that "damage", and would have quickly been able to problem solve what actually happened.  A healthy mom would have taken her daughter into her arms, apologized, given a hug, and maybe even asked for forgiveness. A healthy mom would have checked in on her daughter alone in her bedroom all day without food, to see how she was doing.  More than likely she was just on the warpath about something totally unrelated, and this just gave her the opportunity to blow off some steam.

We all have hundreds if not thousands of these stories.  I think sharing them is helpful because we feel less alone with our pain of not only "not having been mothered", but also with our  suffering.  More importantly, we think about how to parent "little teabunny" and "little methuen" in a way that our mothers couldn't. This is the therapeutic and reflective and growth part.  I have not ever done this exercise.  I think it's brilliant.  So thanks for starting the thread.  I am hoping for some catharsis...

[Turkish]

Good topic and good insights!

My mom suggested I go back to school to be a nurse like she was,  at 41 years of age, the primary breadwinner for my family. I hadn't done well enough in life for her.

I've been thinking about my teen years recently, and I'm not sure why or if it's productive now that I'm 50.

In 1983, she moved us to the mountains to live like 1883. No electricity, heat (well, there was the kerosene heater in the uninsulated barn shell), plumbing or running water (i used to hike 2 miles there and back to haul water from the river down and up 1000 ft) and eating food at room temp out of cans. I guess it made me toughen up, but it was inexcusable.

I recently drove on the freeway through Sacramento where I grew up before my mom took us to Little House On The Praire. I felt sick to my stomach driving by the old environs. I was surprised. The body keeps the score. I really need to finish that book...

[Notwendy]

I have also had several of these realizations.

BPD mom relates stories of me as a baby. Apparently, as a newborn, I "ignored her" and as a toddler I ran into her room to "throw up on her carpet on purpose".

Amazing to attribute these intents to a baby. Newborns sleep a lot. They aren't "ignoring" their parents. If a toddler gets a stomach ache, they can't control if they throw up. They run to their parents because they want their parents to comfort them.

Like Methuen's mother thinking a 5 year old can take branches off a tree.

It's beyond being a loving mother- it's irrational. Rational people don't assume a newborn is ignoring them or that small children can take all the branches off a tree.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I'd like to jump on the bandwagon...

My mother told me recently I had a really bad character when I was young, because I got mad at her and didn't talk to her for four hours after she screamed at me... A healthy mother would not scream at their children in a way that they would end up scared to that extreme. If a four years old won't talk to their mother for four hours, chances are they are deeply scared of her. When my daughter is angry at me, it is so easy to make her laugh it off and then I ask her what is wrong so we can solve it together. Sometimes, healthy mother talks loud, and raises their voice to be listened to, but upon realizing they went too far, (I think we all did at least once), they say they are sorry and they recognize their limits and try to release tension... They don't abandon their children in a scared state for four hours.

Once, she forgot me at school. My teacher made me call her, and she came in after work, and so I had to wait alone in the school parking lot with my things. It wasn't the first time she had forgotten me, and I felt deeply abandoned. When I entered the car, she proceeded to scold me because I didn't talk much (freeze). She lectured me the whole way home about how ungrateful I was, and that I had no right to act this way (i.e. to be feel sad). A healthy mother would not have forgotten their child and in the event they arrived late, they would have gotten out of the car to help their child pick up their things, and say they were sorry, that they loved them very much, and that they would make everything in their power that it doesn't happen again. They would have asked the child how was their trip and maybe get an ice cream cone in the way back as a way to show care, because a whole hour is a very long wait for a young kid alone in a parking lot...

I like that. I feel better telling my inner child that. Thank you for this thread. I will keep doing that when a hurtful memory pops up.

[beatricex]

oh gosh, this is a good thread, I will keep it going.  My Mom blames me cause she got "fat" after me, I was the third child.  She had 6 children total, her body was destroyed, it was so bad she had reconstructive surgery on the abdomen mucles and liposuction, but not soon enough.  Also, one day I noticed her bum go thinner, so I suspect that was another surgery.   And, I am the kid that made her "fat."  This was a constant source of fights  between my parents growing up, having kids, especially bratty ones like us "ruined her body," with me especially to blame.   Since I'm going through Family Connections with my husband right now I'll share that in the group I'm in, almost every parent with a BPD child is struggling with their teenage or adult child's body dysmorphia, anorexia, and or eating disorder.  So I suppose that's pretty common with BPD.  I too have "food issues" but I would never think to blame a child for my weight gain.  Like I meant to do this to my Mom?

((teabunny)

((methuen)

((Turkish)

((Notwendy)

((Riv3RW0lf)  p.s my Mom also forgot to pick us up from summer school, like we waited hours and like you, got a guilt trip when she did come.  I too, felt abandoned


Those are hugs from me to your little girl self who was hurt, baffled and confused by this behavior.  So hurt, that yes, years later...it still hurts to think of it!

Still figuring out too, exactly what it means to be a healthy mom to me.
b

[Nopuppets]

 

A very big hug to all of you.  These situations are reminding me of several with my own mother.  I recall several times waiting on the school steps to be picked up late, as it was a totally normal thing to do.  And being embarrassed and afraid, I was in first and second grade when this took place and it happened many times.  Of course there wouldn’t be an apology, it was just brushed off as normal behavior.

Have most of you recalled that as you got older these occurrences became more frequent and many times worse?  I specifically recall when I was a young teen having chapped lips.  I used Blistex and was accused by my mother of wearing lipstick.  She really frowned upon any makeup, so I knew not to venture there.  Anyway, she went off on me raging, calling me a slut and scrubbing my face in an attacking manner with a wash cloth.  Of course no color came off on the cloth because it wasn’t lipstick.  Again, no apology.

All of the above situations make me think of the Mommie Dearest movie.  And, through the course of finding this amazing group, I’ve realized how important it is to continue to heal my inner child.

You all bring me an incredible amount of inspiration and strength on a daily basis!  Thank you, thank you 

[Teabunny]

  to all of you with difficult memories and situations shared in this thread

In my case, I was thinking mostly of the present month's happenings, but it seems therapuetic for many of you here to reflect and heal your inner child from childhood memories.

That is really cool!

For me it really crystallized when grandma went into the hospital recently, and I once again went into "comfort mom" mode, but finally realized that healthy moms wouldn't act that way. It was a "duh" moment but it felt so normal to have to parent my parents, and that started this thread.

What else am I not seeing? That's my next challenge. If I can recognize what a healthy mother would be capable of doing, I think it will reframe and reduce current and future harm.

[Teabunny]

Another example of something I'm not seeing - healthy moms probably feel joy or happiness when their spouses or others want to gift their children something harmless. But recently, Dad told me that Mom tried to stop him from gifting me a random paperweight (no heirloom or origin story with it) that sat around their house unused, dirty. He thought I'd like the design (and I do) but she wanted to keep it as soon as she found out he was trying to give it to me. I think, probably, it's unhealthy for Dad to drag me into their conflict over this gift, and unhealthy that Mom doesn't want him to give me even dirty unused things. I cleaned it up, it looks like new and is really neat!

I'm uncertain about this -
Is it typical or healthy, normal, for a mom to give her daughter stuff that her husband gave her (like for Valentine's in the past) because she doesn't like her husband and no longer wants his gifts? I can kinda see how that would be a nice hand-me-down connection but it feels...off somehow.

[Notwendy]

BPD mom also has/had body dysmorphia/eating disorder issues. In her younger years, she was gorgeous- always dressed beautifully and hair was perfect. She also looked a lot younger. I recall being about 10 when some young man tried to pick her up, assuming she was my older sister.

She is also petite and dresses very feminine. Somehow she seemed to think she needed to lose weight but she didn't.

And me, her scapegoat child, was more of a tomboy. Jeans, sports team trophies.

But in the grand scheme of things, by my early teens, I wasn't much larger than she is. I got to be about 2 inches taller and had more muscle from sports. At that time, she began to comment on "how big" I was. She even got my father to encourage me to lose weight. I am appalled that he went along with that. What father tells his daughter she needs to lose weight. She told me I would grow up to play college football.

So from then on, as a teen, I struggled with low self esteem and fear I was too big. It makes me sad to think that I dealt with this in my teen age years. I was an average size teen.

[Notwendy]

Is it typical or healthy, normal, for a mom to give her daughter stuff that her husband gave her (like for Valentine's in the past) because she doesn't like her husband and no longer wants his gifts? I can kinda see how that would be a nice hand-me-down connection but it feels...off somehow.

Go with your gut. If it's something romantic, that would be eewww. But if it's something like a sweater, or book or something you like and it isn't romantic then probably not a big deal.

But I understand the eww feeling, I am not sure I'd want ot.

[zachira]

Great thread and good to focus on what a healthy mom would do!
When I was in Girl Scouts, we had an assignment to cook dinner for the family and were provided with the recipe. I was feeling so proud of being able to prepare dinner for the whole family. As I was cleaning up, my mother came in and told me how terrible the food was, and nothing else. A healthy mother would have thanked her daughter for cooking dinner and let her know how proud she was of her.

[Methuen]

In terms of present happenings (rather than childhood memories), here is the most recent:

I came out of retirement recently when I was head hunted for a job opportunity.  I told mom via text.  She never replied.  At her next eye appointment (which I transported her to), she made the follow-up appointment for a time when I would be at work at my new job.  I reminded her I wouldn't be able to drive her to the appointment, because she was assuming that I would drive her as usual.  The "rage" started before we left the exit doors of the clinic, carried on through the parking lot, throughout the drive to her house, and carried on as I helped her inside her house with her walker, and carried on for another 10 min although I "tried to settle her emotions".  Essentially, I was the worst daughter in the world, I didn't love her, and how dare I go back to work "when she really needed me?"  I was selfish.  She stayed home to "raise me" when I was a young child, and now I "owe her".  How could I do this to her?

A healthy mother could have said:  Really?  That's amazing!  Good for you!  I'm happy for you!  

[Methuen]

But recently, Dad told me that Mom tried to stop him from gifting me a random paperweight (no heirloom or origin story with it) that sat around their house unused, dirty. He thought I'd like the design (and I do) but she wanted to keep it as soon as she found out he was trying to give it to me. I think, probably, it's unhealthy for Dad to drag me into their conflict over this gift, and unhealthy that Mom doesn't want him to give me even dirty unused things.

 Just my opinion, but I doubt that this has anything to do with the gift itself (used, old etc), and everything to do with control.  How many other gifts has your dad given you "alone" without your mom?

?

My SIL has some kind of PD.  She is seriously dysfunctional.  Thankfully we live far away from her.  Anyways after H and SIL's mom died, my H and her were sorting through some of their mom's belongings (including about 300 cookbooks).  H found one on "ice cream" and offered it to his niece (who was in the room) as a memory of "Oma" (recently passed).  Well, SIL snatched it out of H's hands and said she was going to keep it so that neice and her could make ice cream together.  They never did.  It was about "control", and turning the situation into making herself look better than her brother (my H).  SIL did not want her  brother "looking good" or generous or kind to niece. Her MO is to make herself look better than everyone else.  It was also about her perception of somehow "looking lesser" than her brother if he gave the cookbook to the niece.

Not sure if that could apply in your situation.

[Turkish]

These stories are sad, but I'm glad that they're getting out. I can't even comprehend shaming my children. If they hurt, I hurt. For a pwBPD (and the like), it feels like if they hurt, then loved ones must hurt as well. As my uBPDx once told me, "I just want everyone else to feel my pain!" The cry of the former invalidated child. Succinctly: "if you hurt, I hurt." "If I hurt, you must hurt."

I had a great 11th and 12th grade teacher for history, government and economics. He and my 12th grade English teacher recruited me for the academic decathlon team. We swept the tri-county meet. My mom showed up to take credit for my medals. I had previously said positive things about him, but I told her that sometimes he mumbled, to which she replied, "people who mumble have something to hide!"

A year or so before that, my buddy who is quite a character (he wore office clothes and a tie to school except on casual Fridays) was dressed like Sherlock Holmes. I had a garage sale trenchcoat and one of those Russian hats. We walked our tiny town on the fog on our little world. I still remember that morning fondly. I told my mom and she said, "why can't you be original?"

Seriously, ?. If it's not safe to share, or even exist as you are like some of your stories here, then what's the point of communicating?

[Riv3rW0lf]

Another example of something I'm not seeing - healthy moms probably feel joy or happiness when their spouses or others want to gift their children something harmless.

I don't know... Maybe. I consider myself a good enough mother right now. I am full of love and care for my children. I paused my career to be with them for their first four years. My daughter is very independant (I don't consider myself a smothering mother), and my husband says he doesn't see anything really wrong with the way I parent, other than when I am in a flashback... I then require some time to come back to a safe zone, because I get impatient, although still more patient than husband (). All this to say, I do think I am a healthy mother in the end, my daughter is not scared of me, and she healthily shows me her joy, sadness and anger, and I encourage her, always, to use her words.

But... Gifts are something I have issues with. I recently moved back to my home province and my in-laws are close by ... And they are both retired... And they are clearly bored. We are currently searching for a healthy balance in terms of visits. If they could, they would always be here to see their grandchildren or have them at their house.

My mother in law just bought a bed cover for my daughter. I really appreciated that she asked first if it was fine. But earlier, they came in, and she was saying how she was going to draw transparent faux-vitrail for my daughter's windows in her room and I started feeling uneasy. It is harmless, but is it also our home and I don't want someone else decorating it... Maybe my daughter would like it, but I don't like looking around my house to see someone else's decor...

Harmless gifts may seem harmless to others, but sometimes they just reactivate something... I consider myself a healthy mother, but I grew up in a house with a huge lack of healthy boundaries, and a lot of harmless thing feels like overstepping to me.

She was telling me how she was making spaghetti sauce tomorrow because my daughter mentionned she wanted to eat spaghetti yesterday...and she said she would bring some over and I instantly felt the urge to tell her: "You know... I can feed my family myself.. as a matter of fact I have spaghetti sauce cooking right now in the oven... " Which I did, because I heard my daughter too... I know she means well but I am a grown woman, this is my house and I cook for my family right now. Maybe it has to do with the fact my own uBPDm would always bring me food as a way to excuse her anger outbursts, I don't know...  Also mother in law always give undiluted juice and full of chocolate and sugar to my daughter, who had lots of digestive issues in the past (including prolapses, which was very intense to deal with) and every doctor we saw said no juice and low sugar diet. Also, both my in-laws gave themselves diabetes, and I am not interested in my children thinking it's ok to eat like they do. I want them to know balance... Dessert after diner (sure!) but fruits and healthy snack during the day. I don't let them go hungry, I want them healthy...

I swear, last time, I had this idea that she was buying their love with sugar (which we all know is a drug for us, I mean... It is highly addictive! I am addicted to it and need to keep me in check when I have milk chocolate around.) This was clearly my outer critic acting out but still... She wanted to give a freaking commercial "maple syrup" bit highly sugary cookie to my 10 months old yesterday and said earlier how "soon you will come see me to have some cookies"... Outer critic is starting again... I felt insulted because I treat my kids, but healthily. He has some baby cookies, and he will eat sugar soon enough, I am not in a rush to give him highly sugary stuff... Both her sons were fat from eating junk and sugar all the time. My husband really struggled with his weight as a teenager and now he is a gym addict and highly self conscious... He didn't appreciate the unhealthy habits they gave him growing up.

She also always buy really girly things to my daughter, like dolls, when I told her many times she didn't even like dolls (she loves her stuffed animals more than dolls)... And she won't listen, she keeps calling her a princess and giving her girly things and pink things. It is harmless in the end but I don't like how she is unwittingly encouraging my daughter to be girly. I'd rather my daughter be herself... She doesn't like makeup and girly things, she loves the paw patrol and trolls movie. She likes pink, and prefer purple... I don't know where I am going with this. She asks kisses and presents her mouth when I don't even kiss my daughter on the mouth .. it's cheeks for us...

This has clearly devolved into a rant, I am sorry to hijack the post... I guess... My mother in law is not abusive. She mostly asks before she does something and I can say no safely without her lashing out. Its all very healthy. I am clearly, however, overprotective of my daughter's boundaries and I am highly sensitive to any kind of move that is somewhat intrusive, even when it is well intentioned. For the sugar, I am aware grandparents want to treat their grandchildren, I get it... But I explained for the digestive issues and it's all coming out as a lack of respect, they are not taking it seriously, they weren't there when she was anemic. Its very hard to find a proper balance. I am overall healthy, but working on my cPTSD and anyone who is not yet considered "safe" by me, is an intruder. My husband can do whatever he wants, it is his daughter and I love seeing them play together... In-laws... Not yet. I am just very... Well... Let's just say parents are an issue for me hahaha

I am working on it. I find it so very hard to know when I am right VS overprotective and paranoiac...

[Notwendy]

That's interesting because, my BPD mother does not give me gifts, and she is generous with my kids. I feel uncomfortable with them because with my mother, gifts come with obligation and control. Riv3rWolf- maybe that is why you feel discomfort when your MIL does things- even though for her, it doesn't carry any baggage.

With my own MIL, I realized that she raised my H and so they do have a relationship that is longer than his is with me. She's not an overbearing mother and he isn't enmeshed- I would not like it if that were the situation, but also she would enjoy relating to my kids one on one, so if she cooks something for them, I don't mind.

As the kids got older, BPD mother sent them large checks. It made me cringe as it felt she was trying to "buy" their affection. Also because when I was their age, she didn't send that kind of money to help me out with college. The kids rationalized it another way. They have put it towards their education and so they feel they are directing it in a positive way, something they believe my father would have been happy about.

I mentioned she would not let me have any sentimental items that my father had. I did ask him for one once. He said I could have it, but I had to sneak it out of the house so she wouldn't see him give it to me.

[Methuen]

Riverwolf, what is coming across loud and clear is that your MIL doesn't have good boundaries.  You and H are the parents.  If you have clearly and consistently informed her of the serious health issues your daughter suffered, and yet MIL ignores all that and does what she wants (feeds your daughter the sugar treats) because it's fun for MIL, hey that is a serious problem.  It sounds like your MIL is not respecting your parenting boundaries in place which are there to keep your daughter healthy and safe.  Your post got my juices going a little, because H and I had to deal with this exact behavior from my BPD mom when our kids were little.  So full disclosure - maybe my thoughts below are going to come across a little biased.

Despite our values and boundaries as parents, my mom felt entitled to do with them, and feed them exactly what she wanted when she was with them alone.  It was so frustrating.  But as the parents, you still have a lot of control.  Once our kids were about 7 and 9 years old, we started "finding ways" to avoid ever having her drive them anywhere.  She was a terrible driver (unsafe), and there was no way we were going to trust the most precious things in our life to her driving skills.  She once stopped the car she was driving in the middle of the highway because she was distracted telling a story, and forgot she was driving.  H and I were in the backseat just returned from a flight... traffic was light thankfully, but it was still going in both directions around us...

How does your H feel, about the problem of her feeding your D sugary treats?  I'm assuming you and he have talked?  Is he also frustrated with his mom, or is he taking a "hands off approach" to avoid getting in the middle of the "feelings" of his mother and wife?  It's certainly going to be easier if you and H agree, and are on the same page with his mom's behavior.  Thankfully, my H and I were on the same page.

There are two ways to approach your situation.  One is for you and H to have a serious conversation with her, and ask for her cooperation.  "Mom, do you understand why the doctors explained reduced/no sugar for D?"  "Mom, do you agree with this strategy?"  (Find out where she is coming from, and if the only thing she cares about is doing what she wants.) "Mom, can you refrain from these ___________ treats in the future?"  "What are some different healthy treats you would still enjoy giving to D?"  (Maybe she genuinely doesn't know what else to give them?). Best case scenario is she feels bad, changes her approach, and the problem is solved.  However, if she has a PD of her own, this approach is not going to work.  If there is no PD, this problem should be solvable to a point you can live with.  Maybe just basic friendly communication is all that is needed?

The second  approach is to get your daughter on board.  I'm not sure how old she is. ?  If she's still young, this may not work, unless even as a youngster she already has understanding that this stuff makes her sick.  If she's old enough, she could say "no thank you grandma.  I brought some snacks with me today" and then eat what you packaged up for her (healthy baked snacks from home, or other healthy treats).  That would surely bring about a change in grandma's offerings.  If D says no, grandma will surely get the message.

The thing is, you don't want food to become the tool of a power struggle between you and grandma.  If it does, you may not win this battle.  Is it possible that grandma has her own issues?  Her attitude towards feeding treats to your kids (and other behaviors) mirrors my BPD mom's behavior with our kids when they were small.

Gifts are something I have issues with.

RW, It does't sound from your post that the problem is the gifts, but how they are given, and why they are given, and what use the gift has for meeting grandma's own needs.  Take the gift of the window coverings.  So, would you go into someone else's house and tell them you are going to make new window coverings for them?  Really?  None of us would do that, because it's a pretty clear boundary that one just doesn't do that kind of thing.  I mean it's one thing for grandma to ask you curiously what you think of the idea, and wait for your response.  It's quite another to tell you that she will make curtains for your house.  Just because it's "family" doesn't mean there isn't the same boundary as there is with neighbors, friends, or total strangers.  It's the same thing with the doll issue.  Why do you think she is "pushing" dolls and "girly play" on your D, even though that's not your D's preference?  Healthy people don't do this.  They think about what the child likes to play with when buying gifts, not what they think the child should play with.  One is child centered.  The other is self-centered.

Do you think your MIL is trying to make your D a little version of herself?  The good news is, if that is what she is doing, she will be unsuccessful.  Kids are good at knowing what they want, and lucky for your kids, they have you as a parent to support them to "become themselves".  

I think your feelings are completely justified RW.  Don't minimize what you are feeling about this.  You're right to be nervous with MIL.  She is boundary busting in a few ways. If you and H don't affirm your boundaries now, is it possible she may bust more of them in the future?   If it's any consolation, my BPD mother behaved in all these ways too, but our kids from a young age clued into her quirks, immaturity, unpredictability, and the fact that she was trying to "buy them".  They came on board with us, and declined her money when they mowed her lawns or did other chores for her.  They did these things because she was their grandma, and turned down her money gifts.  That really bugged her.    When she gave them "money" gifts for BD and XMAS, they put it into their accounts for their college fund.

What does your H think of all this?  What is his relationship with his mother?  This might be worth exploring on a new thread if you are interested.  I'm guessing lots of us would have plenty to say on this topic.  Lots of experience with this kind of thing on the forum.

In disordered people, I think gifts can be a way to exert influence or control over others, and to play drama games, and "win" battles over value differences. Not saying your MIL is disordered - not at all.  If you have a conversation with her and she can respect your parenting values and stick to most of your boundaries, that's a healthy person.  But if she can't, and does as she pleases with your kids (even to the detriment of your daughter's health), then there might be something else going on.  A different kind of "game" over gifts was described by Teabunny earlier in this thread, but the common denominator is gifts.  Gifts can be a "tool" and a means to have their "own" disordered needs met, rather than being given freely.  Just my thoughts.

[Riv3rW0lf]

With my own MIL, I realized that she raised my H and so they do have a relationship that is longer than his is with me. She's not an overbearing mother and he isn't enmeshed- I would not like it if that were the situation, but also she would enjoy relating to my kids one on one, so if she cooks something for them, I don't mind.

I wonder if that will work to create a new thread, I changed the subject hoping to stop the post's hijacking...  (edit: sorry it didn't...)

Yes, Notwendy, I agree with you and I don't mind if she bakes with her and they eat what they baked together... It's more when I came back to my daughter drinking a huge glass of pure apple juice, as she was literally snaking on milk chocolate bits... She had a commercial plate of those on her knees, and she was basically finishing it... She is only 3years1/2... It was A LOT of chocolate to give a toddler and showed a bit of a lack of judgment.  They said there weren't that much left but I don't know.

Last weekend, MIL litterally came knocking on our door unannounced, to give a bag of marshmallow bars covered with chocolate to my daughter, like 10 of them... Like granola bar size. I was apalled. I told my husband he had to do something about it. He wasn't pleased but told her, two days later, to announce herself before she comes to our house... He said she understood.

Methuen,

To answer your question: for my husband, he thinks we should just accept the gifts and throw away what we don't want, while I am more on the : prevent her from giving us junk we don't need side. So he told me to deal with her as I see fit and that he'd always be on my side. He trust that I will be reasonable and won't deliberately try to hurt her.

It's not the first time I have had issues with his parents. His father used to touch me inappropriately (touch my hips, hug me tightly and whispering in my ear how a "beautiful mother" I was, grabbing me from the back) and it took three years for my husband to say something. My husband told me many times to tell him myself and I ended up in tears telling him I couldn't, my body would freeze everytime and I couldn't move, nor talk. I have been sexually assaulted when I was 12, and I guess a life of abuse will do that to you, freezing was always the safest option for me. That time, he finally told his father and it completely stopped. So father in law doesn't have a PD, I'd say. They are just entitled as f**k. And while my husband will stand up to me and be on my side, I do feel he is always a bit scared or uncomfortable challenging his parents... But then, who isn't?  

As for sugar: they themselves have a bad relationship with sugar. They both developped diabetes over time and they still have so much of it in their house, it's crazy to me.  I don't think they understand the harm it could cause, and so I decided to just decrease the amount of time she goes there without us.  My goal is not to stand between them and their grandchildren, but I don't like seeing my kids being bought out with sugar and gifts. I am glad to read both Notwendy and you experienced that in the end, your kids didn't buy into it and remained grounded to the family values, that is a relief to read.

Am I the only one that feels like grandparents today ask for way more space in their grandchildren's lives than the previous generation did? Like ... They not only treat them but it's like they are looking to have more of  primary role and be caretakers instead of grandparents. But then it might be my trauma talking...  

[Teabunny]

Lots of great discussion here about gifts - they are issues in so many ways, right?

Again I was posting this thread as an adult daughter, so, my mom being unhappy and trying to prevent me from receiving gifts is the inappropriate behavior. This comes from her jealousy or need to control or her trauma. To me, an easy test if it is healthy mom behavior or not: is the gift good for the CHILD? Healthy moms typically don't want to prevent their kids from getting love, quality time, support, money, gifts etc from dads or grandparents (exception: unless there is unhealthy obligation attached to gifts from a disordered person) because this benefits the child and the entire family's bond. If it's not of benefit to the child's health or happiness, that's cause for concern. If it benefits the child, but makes mom feel like she's being replaced, or jealous, or has less control, that's cause for concern about the mom's mental health.

Another realization from today that surprised me: healthy parents in general don't except their children to always just cope with everything thrown at them. I'd always thought, "Of course I will cope with this, I have to on my own." But realized, you know, a lot of people come to parents for emotional or financial support or advice. My parents expect me to cope with everything alone: their marital problems, their emotions about work or relationships, my own life, etc. I don't go to my parents for support. I've tried in the past, but they lay more problems at my feet for me to cope with for them, and can't empathize with how I feel or help me through something like a death in the family. I turn to other people instead.

Riv3rwolf, if they are not disordered (can respect boundaries, and it sounds like yours can't) in response to your question, I think it's treasure to have grandparents like that, it's something I can only fantasize about.  Last night I was dreaming about traveling the world with my "adoptive" grandpa/fatherly figure, we visited so many cities. Not long ago in history, and still today in some cases, 3 generations lived in one house and grandparent time was a daily thing, and I think that's awesome. If it's healthy, love from and for others doesn't detract from or replace love from and for ourselves, it just creates more. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

Yes... I actually think my issue with my in-laws, at present (because they did respect the boundaries we have been putting in place so far), really comes from my own trauma. I think, in the end, she is a healthy mother, she just doesn't know how to gain love from young kids other than giving gifts and treats. But I don't think those are disordered gifts... I am just not used to anything else than disordered gifts.

I don't really know them, and my husband is not close with them and I do feel he bear a bit of resentment toward them. And so I am ways on the lookout for what will go wrong.

This is something I have to deal with, within myself. And I know love should be shared, which is why I do send my daughter to their house by herself, we had dinner with them last Friday, and they came for coffee Saturday morning... I basically try to have them see their grandchildren, alone or not, at least once a week... Which I think is fair, because we do have a life of our own to live.

The thing is, I value independance... And I've been on my own a VERY long time... I need to learn what a healthy family is...

I do think in their specific case: my trauma is blinding me to their love.

I don't think FIL meant to traumatized me more by touching my hips, I don't think he realized how it was coming across to me. He likes to touch people, and I've been abused and don't like to be touched by anyone other than my husband and children. Not something he could have known and I am slowly but surely working on it...

I can relate to the fantasy of being adopted by a grandparent. Both my grandparents on my father side died before I was born and I often wonder how different my life would have been with them.. I do think it would have been better. But in the end, it's all ok and everything will be fine.

I feel it easier to re-parent myself now that I am an actual parent ! I can let go of my fear for their good and it forces me to do things I am uncomfortable with, showing me that : there was/is no danger anymore.