No Idea How To Proceed

[who_knows11]

I don't even know where to begin.  I feel that there is no way my wife cannot have bpd.  She is not currently in therapy and hasn't been since she was very young.  She dealt with a lot of trauma, neglect, loss, and abuse as a young child.  I can't begin to imagine what it was like or how it would affect a person.  She possesses essentially every trait associated with bpd.  At least 95% I feel like.  She seems to have a victim mentality.  I don't even actually know if that is associated with bpd or if it is something separate on its own. 

The biggest dilemma I'm dealing with currently is that I believe we have some fundamental differences in values and beliefs that just seem to exacerbate the issue.  She accuses me of doing, thinking, or feeling certain ways that are not at all accurate with how I actually act, think, or feel.  I guess that is somewhat normal with bpd.  However, I can't attempt to explain that her feeling isn't accurate without being accused of either dismissing her feelings or as of late being narcissistic.  That is now an issue of it's own.  As a result of that accusation I'm now starting to think I see the narcissistic traits in her as well and think maybe she is just projecting onto me. 

On top of all that I have very introverted and logical personality traits.  Couple that with the fact that my spiritual beliefs put me in a place where I think emotions can be very dangerous by themselves and I am left as a person that rarely expresses emotion which is also a problem in her mind.  I'm afraid if I try to bring up the bpd she will just think that I am blaming her for the problems and that is not a all it.

I am nowhere near a perfect person.  I have more than plenty of faults and things that I could be better at, and I understand that.  I feel that I have basically rambled here and perhaps didn't even pose an actual question, but I'm simply at a loss for what to do.  I guess I'm just looking for thoughts and experiences from those who have dealt with this so I can try and figure out a good decision to make.  Thanks for listening

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

You sound like me.    Introverted and overly logical and not very expressive emotionally.

Definitely don’t bring up BPD. It’s a shame based disorder and people who have BPD (pwBPD) have a lot of self loathing already. They don’t need to research it and discover how difficult it makes the lives of their loved ones, and how little hope for change there is without a commitment to therapy.

Logic won’t work with pwBPD when they are on the verge of being dysregulated. Certainly when they are in a reasonable emotional state they may be well-functioning and logical, but once emotion becomes preeminent, logic goes out the window.

We tell members not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) as that typically incites further emotional reaction once that’s already underway. I’m guilty of chronically trying to explain, but I have to keep that under wraps when my husband gets upset. It does absolutely no good. At other times, I can speak with him as a reasonable, intelligent adult, but not when he’s upset.

So don’t refute her accusations, as annoying and difficult as that can be. And yes, it’s likely that she’s projecting her own faults onto you.

Take a look at the Tools at the top of the page in the green bar.

[who_knows11]

You sound like me.    Introverted and overly logical and not very expressive emotionally.

Definitely don’t bring up BPD. It’s a shame based disorder and people who have BPD (pwBPD) have a lot of self loathing already. They don’t need to research it and discover how difficult it makes the lives of their loved ones, and how little hope for change there is without a commitment to therapy.

Logic won’t work with pwBPD when they are on the verge of being dysregulated. Certainly when they are in a reasonable emotional state they may be well-functioning and logical, but once emotion becomes preeminent, logic goes out the window.

We tell members not to JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) as that typically incites further emotional reaction once that’s already underway. I’m guilty of chronically trying to explain, but I have to keep that under wraps when my husband gets upset. It does absolutely no good. At other times, I can speak with him as a reasonable, intelligent adult, but not when he’s upset.

So don’t refute her accusations, as annoying and difficult as that can be. And yes, it’s likely that she’s projecting her own faults onto you.

Take a look at the Tools at the top of the page in the green bar.

Thanks for taking the time to reply.  Honestly, most of the time I simply remain silent and don't say anything.  That is usually met with a remark about how she will take my silence as agreeing with her.  I guess my trouble is trying to understand how she can think I'm actually doing the things she's accusing me of and it be able to get better.  She is asking for change, but I can't change something that I'm not doing.  It seems like a never ending circle of trouble I guess.  That's what leaves me so confused.  I agree the logic never works and I understand why that is the case.  However, when I just don't say anything since I know logic is not the answer she gets increasingly upset about that as well.  I'm just lost.

I have been looking through some of the resources and it should be helpful.  Thanks again

[NonnyMouse]

My uBPDw and I share very similar values. But she will often say the opposite. At those times I use SET, Support, Empathy, Truth. But I keep it very short. It then passes.

If things are going well she might say, "You and I are very similar in..." And then I feel good. But I never forget that that too is temporary.

And definitely don't mention BPD!

[finallyout]

However, I can't attempt to explain that her feeling isn't accurate without being accused of either dismissing her feelings or as of late being narcissistic.  That is now an issue of it's own.  As a result of that accusation I'm now starting to think I see the narcissistic traits in her as well and think maybe she is just projecting onto me. 

This is something I dealt with on a daily basis when I was still in a relationship with my BPD ex-gf. And I still do, since we have a kid together. What you are thinking is  very accurate, she is projecting her inner narcissism on you. Narcissism in itself is not bad, it is a basic human trait that we all possess. But it is problematic when it becomes a disorder.

The main issue for you now is to understand what is going on in your life. If she truly has BPD, then you should know that things are not going to get better. You could learn some skills to better communicate with her and to be able to limit her destructive behavior, but the struggle won't ever end.  So the questions that you should ask yourself are whether you want to deal with this for the rest of your life or not. Some people think that the struggle is worth the efforts, some don't.

btw do you have kids together?

[who_knows11]

This is something I dealt with on a daily basis when I was still in a relationship with my BPD ex-gf. And I still do, since we have a kid together. What you are thinking is  very accurate, she is projecting her inner narcissism on you. Narcissism in itself is not bad, it is a basic human trait that we all possess. But it is problematic when it becomes a disorder.

The main issue for you now is to understand what is going on in your life. If she truly has BPD, then you should know that things are not going to get better. You could learn some skills to better communicate with her and to be able to limit her destructive behavior, but the struggle won't ever end.  So the questions that you should ask yourself are whether you want to deal with this for the rest of your life or not. Some people think that the struggle is worth the efforts, some don't.

btw do you have kids together?

Yes we have 2 boys.  4yrs and 1yr.  I have no intention on leaving.  I had not learned about bpd until a short while ago.  I can see the unfortunate scenario that it never gets better.  That is definitely difficult.  I have no issue accepting that this is her and fully who she is.  The most difficulty comes from the fact that she can't accept who am and be ok with it.  I realize though that it could be due in part to the bpd if she does have it.  I know I'm not one to be able to diagnose, I just can't see any alternative for what it could be

[Cat Familiar]

 How can you deal with her not accepting who you are?

I’ve had to learn how *not to care* how my husband sees me when he’s upset, and figure that he votes with his feet when he’s not upset. He’s still with me, so I must be OKenough, otherwise he’d make a different decision.

I know this is not the ideal we thought we’d have when we chose to get involved with them, but this is what we’ve got to deal with.

[who_knows11]

How can you deal with her not accepting who you are?

I’ve had to learn how *not to care* how my husband sees me when he’s upset, and figure that he votes with his feet when he’s not upset. He’s still with me, so I must be OKenough, otherwise he’d make a different decision.

I know this is not the ideal we thought we’d have when we chose to get involved with them, but this is what we’ve got to deal with.

Agreed.  I'm ok with the fact that she doesn't accept it.  I know that I am not really the things she accuses me of being.  I just hate for her that she things I'm refusing to change when in reality her view isn't the truth about me.  I don't want to be dismissive of her feelings but I also don't want to say yes you are right, I need to change that, when I'm not actual the person she says I am to begin with.  I can see that perhaps there is no solution.  I've just been expecting to find an answer now that I think I know the issue.  That's just logical in my mind.  But maybe the answer is that there is no answer

[Cat Familiar]

Logic rarely works on sensitive topics with pwBPD.

[waverider]

Not answering means she can write her own version of reality and transplant it on to you, and as you are not refuting it then that is taken as confirmation.

The best approach is to ask her questions about what she is thinking, without backing yourself into validating the invalid (this devalues you in your own eyes). The more she is talking about her issues the less time is spent projecting them onto you. Listen to any good therapist and they will ask the client "And how does this make YOU feel?" "That must be hard for YOU?". Even if it all sounds like nonsense, keep it their nonsense. Showing interest is validating, and that is what pwBPD crave the most is validation. Showing no active interest, or avoiding them, is incredibly invalidating

Of course this is all very  wearing on the listener so you do have to put limits on it and to diplomatically disengage, often saying things like "I'd like to hear more about that, can we talk about it properly after dinner when I can spend more time with you?"..Typically the moment passes the drama is dropped and its a different issue after dinner...There is always an issue, your part is to try to avoid unnecessary antagonization and escalation. You have be available but just a tad slippery to stay off the runaway crazy train

The drama they are making now may seem like a big deal but in reality its a bigger deal for you than them, as that is their "norm". You will take on more damage than they will from any conflict.

[who_knows11]

It was mentioned not to JADE, what seems to have worked for others as far as how to interact while the conflict is ongoing? For instance if I don't justify, argue, defend or explain then what is left to do?  One mentioned asking questions about how she feels but she is pretty much spending the entire 2 hour conflict telling me how she feels.  The problem is that the feelings seem pretty irrational (at least to my ear) while she's in the middle of an episode.

[Dancingbear]

Ooft this all sounds depressingly familiar.

I'm the same in terms of having a very logical brain and it's one of the most frustrating things trying to make sense of the things my partner says. He will frequently pick up on a thing I've done or said and then attribute a whole bunch of meaning to it that simply isn't true. It's exhausting. I've taken to trying to say something like - ok, I can see why you might think that but it's not true. Doesn't always do much good.

I just refuse anymore to agree with stuff or apologise for things that are untrue or unfair.

Not feeling terribly upbeat today as we are 2 weeks deep in a major unregulated split.

[who_knows11]

Ooft this all sounds depressingly familiar.

I'm the same in terms of having a very logical brain and it's one of the most frustrating things trying to make sense of the things my partner says. He will frequently pick up on a thing I've done or said and then attribute a whole bunch of meaning to it that simply isn't true. It's exhausting. I've taken to trying to say something like - ok, I can see why you might think that but it's not true. Doesn't always do much good.

I just refuse anymore to agree with stuff or apologise for things that are untrue or unfair.

Not feeling terribly upbeat today as we are 2 weeks deep in a major unregulated split.

I've tried acknowledging that I can see where she may have misinterpreted things and came to the conclusion she did, but that usually just becomes an opportunity for her to say I know what I'm doing and just refuse to do any different.  I too refuse to apologize for something I haven't done or that is untrue, and in turn that is more ammo for her because the refusal to apologize means that I don't love her enough to apologize as far as she thinks.

For the most part it is at a point where she is basically saying that the way she views things is the only correct way of viewing them and if anyone disagrees then they are just bad people who don't understand the reality of things. 

Sorry to hear about your split.  Mine keeps telling me that the same is coming but so far has not actually attempted to do so.