Update on uBPD sibling, need support for upcoming visit

[Depression = 72% of members]

I haven’t posted in a while about my uBPD sister for a few months. I am anticipating it is about to flare again and need support with boundaries and managing the stress of her upcoming visit.

A few months ago, she announced in a series of early morning text her plans to visit to discuss the trust, finances, end of life.  She rambled about need for an attorney and if I didn’t agree she would get her own as she had to protect her and her families interests. My response “ it would be great if you came out so we can do end of life planning, let me know when”.

Her response ‘My text clearly communicates that I also want to discuss finances and the trust. You left that out of your text, saying that we can discuss “end of life “. Did you mean to leave that out?” She shares she is reading speed of trust and that the book describes people like me as dishonest. She also reminded me that she is 50% POA.

As background, we are shared financial POA, but  I am HC POA. I made a decision last year that she strongly disagreed with to increase my mothers level of care on the recommendation of her palliative care team. She maintains I didn’t have the right to do so and that because my mother is end stage she should go to a less expensive board and care near her. She expresses that  “Health care teams recommendations” are irrelevant and her quality of life should guide decisions. I doubt a board and care could manage her care and if they could it would be sub par. She is in the best of the best assisted livings getting skilled nursing services. She loves it and is very grateful. The irony is because the care is bundled the higher care  has actually decreased the total cost, a fact that doesn’t seem to be relevant to my sister.

I disengaged from the last email and in the end she never made plans to come. I decided to try to do some things to validate her, sent her a hallmark “sister love you” card the following week, then gourmet cupcakes for her bday and a nice family Christmas gift soon after. Her tone shifted and we stayed off the topic of my mom. We have been texting every few days on superficial stuff. No phone calls. There have been a few accusatory toned emails, but I have responded with BIFF and let them roll off me.

She finally planned her trip and is coming next weekend. I asked her to let me know what goals for the trip are  and if she wanted me to prepare any financial records. She told me she wants to spend time with my mom in the morning and find a quiet place at the assisted living to talk later . The day she is coming they are having a big outdoor family event so I shared there wouldn’t be any quiet place there as they will be preparing, holding or cleaning up from the event. She agreed to attend the event with my family and me, but we didn’t arrange an alternate place to meet or talk.

My mom is definitely declining and in recent weeks, I have been preparing myself for losing her. I am glad she is coming to see my mom for both of their sakes.  As hard as that loss will be, I am prepared for it. I don’t feel prepared for is how my sister will react and all the nastiness that will be directed my way. I don’t want to give her the power to disrupt my grieving.

This morning I got this “ You asked me about goals and success when I come next weekend. My goal is to work with you on planning for our family trust and finances, mom’s end of life plans, quality of life and health choices. For me, our time together will be successful if we are able to repair some of the wall between us and figure a way to work together in a manner that is fair and productive to all, with transparency, honesty and respect for our relationship, our mother, our deceased father and our family.”

I responded “our goals are the same. Is there an area that is most important to you and you believe we are most likely to be successful? Small success in even one area would help strengthen our relationship.”

Her response was “transparency, honesty and respect.”

If it were anyone other than her, it would sound like motherhood and apple pie, but it has triggered me. I interpret her words to mean “ I” have not been transparent, honest or respectful to “her” because she has low self awareness and maintains all of our problems are attributable to me. My husband thinks that since she hasn’t asked for any financial documents and wants to talk at the assisted living, that she really doesn’t want to talk about finances and rather wants to talk about her role as a decision maker (which she feels has not been honored).

As a physician and healthcare executive, the most recent surge wore me and all my colleagues out. To make things worse, despite triple vaccination, I got COVID myself ( not bad but I worked though it remotely) and have been physically and emotionally drained supporting my adult daughter through a very traumatic event  a couple weeks ago. I was just beginning to feel recovery in all 3 areas, but now feel so vulnerable and without much mental reserve, for the likely attacks headed my way. My therapist thinks that  despite the recent “Niceness” it is certain, with her lack of emotional coping skills, my mothers worsening will result in a repeat of negative behaviors towards me. Being co trustees of the trust and co-executors feels like a no win scenario that will be challenging to get through.

If it goes as badly (or worse) as with my fathers death, once the estate is settled, I will no doubt walk away. I know my sister is afraid of losing my mom and of losing me, and yet both are likely unless she is able to manage through her lifelong resentment towards me, which is highly unlikely. In many ways with my mom’s well being no longer at stake, all that will remain is the trust assets that are far less important to me.

Guidance, support needed.

[Mommydoc]

I haven’t posted in a while about my uBPD sister for a few months. I am anticipating it is about to flare again and need support with boundaries and managing the stress of her upcoming visit.

A few months ago, she announced in a series of early morning text her plans to visit to discuss the trust, finances, end of life.  She rambled about need for an attorney and if I didn’t agree she would get her own as she had to protect her and her families interests. My response “ it would be great if you came out so we can do end of life planning, let me know when”.

Her response ‘My text clearly communicates that I also want to discuss finances and the trust. You left that out of your text, saying that we can discuss “end of life “. Did you mean to leave that out?” She shares she is reading speed of trust and that the book describes people like me as dishonest. She also reminded me that she is 50% POA.

As background, we are shared financial POA, but  I am HC POA. I made a decision last year that she strongly disagreed with to increase my mothers level of care on the recommendation of her palliative care team. She maintains I didn’t have the right to do so and that because my mother is end stage she should go to a less expensive board and care near her. She expresses that  “Health care teams recommendations” are irrelevant and her quality of life should guide decisions. I doubt a board and care could manage her care and if they could it would be sub par. She is in the best of the best assisted livings getting skilled nursing services. She loves it and is very grateful. The irony is because the care is bundled the higher care  has actually decreased the total cost, a fact that doesn’t seem to be relevant to my sister.

I disengaged from the last email and in the end she never made plans to come. I decided to try to do some things to validate her, sent her a hallmark “sister love you” card the following week, then gourmet cupcakes for her bday and a nice family Christmas gift soon after. Her tone shifted and we stayed off the topic of my mom. We have been texting every few days on superficial stuff. No phone calls. There have been a few accusatory toned emails, but I have responded with BIFF and let them roll off me.

She finally planned her trip and is coming next weekend. I asked her to let me know what goals for the trip are  and if she wanted me to prepare any financial records. She told me she wants to spend time with my mom in the morning and find a quiet place at the assisted living to talk later . The day she is coming they are having a big outdoor family event so I shared there wouldn’t be any quiet place there as they will be preparing, holding or cleaning up from the event. She agreed to attend the event with my family and me, but we didn’t arrange an alternate place to meet or talk.

My mom is definitely declining and in recent weeks, I have been preparing myself for losing her. I am glad she is coming to see my mom for both of their sakes.  As hard as that loss will be, I am prepared for it. I don’t feel prepared for is how my sister will react and all the nastiness that will be directed my way. I don’t want to give her the power to disrupt my grieving.

This morning I got this “ You asked me about goals and success when I come next weekend. My goal is to work with you on planning for our family trust and finances, mom’s end of life plans, quality of life and health choices. For me, our time together will be successful if we are able to repair some of the wall between us and figure a way to work together in a manner that is fair and productive to all, with transparency, honesty and respect for our relationship, our mother, our deceased father and our family.”

I responded “our goals are the same. Is there an area that is most important to you and you believe we are most likely to be successful? Small success in even one area would help strengthen our relationship.”

Her response was “transparency, honesty and respect.”

If it were anyone other than her, it would sound like motherhood and apple pie, but it has triggered me. I interpret her words to mean “ I” have not been transparent, honest or respectful to “her” because she has low self awareness and maintains all of our problems are attributable to me. My husband thinks that since she hasn’t asked for any financial documents and wants to talk at the assisted living, that she really doesn’t want to talk about finances and rather wants to talk about her role as a decision maker (which she feels has not been honored).

As a physician and healthcare executive, the most recent surge wore me and all my colleagues out. To make things worse, despite triple vaccination, I got COVID myself ( not bad but I worked though it remotely) and have been physically and emotionally drained supporting my adult daughter through a very traumatic event  a couple weeks ago. I was just beginning to feel recovery in all 3 areas, but now feel so vulnerable and without much mental reserve, for the likely attacks headed my way. My therapist thinks that  despite the recent “Niceness” it is certain, with her lack of emotional coping skills, my mothers worsening will result in a repeat of negative behaviors towards me. Being co trustees of the trust and co-executors feels like a no win scenario that will be challenging to get through.

If it goes as badly (or worse) as with my fathers death, once the estate is settled, I will no doubt walk away. I know my sister is afraid of losing my mom and of losing me, and yet both are likely unless she is able to manage through her lifelong resentment towards me, which is highly unlikely. In many ways with my mom’s well being no longer at stake, all that will remain is the trust assets that are far less important to me.

Guidance, support needed.

[zachira]

You seem to have an extremely realistic understanding of BPD and how your sister is likely to treat you. The best advice I can give you from my experiences with my disordered family members is to only be around your sister in front of others, especially people whom she wants to look good in front of, if your sister is like many of those with BPD who are completely two faced and especially abusive in private while charming in public. I hear the love you feel for your mother and am hoping you can have some loving warm goodbyes before she passes.

[Notwendy]

I know you must be drained from the covid related work, and yes, unfortunately it seems Omicron's a different creature...but glad your case was mild.

It sounds to me like your sister wants money. She doesn't understand ( and may not be able to) that the cost of the care you chose is truly the best option and may be the least expensive. Keep in mind that your sister may see things from victim perspective and see you as the "bad guy" in this, which has nothing to do with you.

In a similar way, when we tried to last discuss my BPD mother's finances with her, she accused us of just wanting her money. We don't want her money- but we can't change what she thinks.

Take care of yourself  and don't allow her to push you into something you know isn't right.

[GaGrl]

Your sister seems to want to intertwine the shared  financial/trust POA with your healthcare POA. I believe the healthcare POA should be the primary decision factor, with the financial/trust there to ensure your mother has the care and resources she needs. You can listen to your sister's input regarding healthcare, but in the end, you will continue to make those decisions with info from her providers.

And I would bet that your sister sees current expenditures leaving her less and less as an inheritance -- so sad.

I agree that you should not meet with your sister alone.

Has your mother's providers moved her to hospice status?

[Mommydoc]

Thanks Zachira, Not Wendy, and GaGrl, it is so great to connect again and receive your insights and advice.
 

only be around your sister in front of others, especially people whom she wants to look good in front of, if your sister is like many of those with BPD who are completely two faced and especially abusive in private while charming in public.

I have both my husband and son lined up and available the entire time. She adores my son and will behave in front of him and my husband as well. I know she wants to talk “Some Place  quiet” at the ALF, but it is still somewhat public or I may suggest she come to my house where they can be within ear shot.

She doesn't understand ( and may not be able to) that the cost of the care you chose is truly the best option and may be the least expensive. Keep in mind that your sister may see things from victim perspective and see you as the "bad guy" in this, which has nothing to do with you.

that is a great insight NotWendy. I think she gets so caught up in her cycle of “I didn’t want this” that she can’t see or hear the facts. My mom’s net worth actually went up 28% last year, her expenses went down by 10% and she has enough money to cover her current costs if she lives until 106! But facts don’t seem to be relevant in this conversation.

Your sister seems to want to intertwine the shared  financial/trust POA with your healthcare POA. I believe the healthcare POA should be the primary decision factor, with the financial/trust there to ensure your mother has the care and resources she needs. You can listen to your sister's input regarding healthcare, but in the end, you will continue to make those decisions with info from her providers.

great insight and reminder GaGrl. I feel pretty grounded in this as my mom has actually improved in several ways ( more verbal and gained weight she lost )with the increased care despite her continuing medical decline. She is not in hospice because Parkinsons is not a terminal condition but she is end stage Parkinsons so her life expectancy is diminishing. Really she gets almost all the same services through palliative.

Thank you all for your kind support!

[Mommydoc]

OK, so it’s getting humorous, but also some big red flags. I emailed her the financial summaries and a list of possible financial topics to discuss during her visit and texted her to say, I sent you the financials and some topics for discussion.

 Her response “ what is your goal for our relationship?”

My response “Harmony”

I thought that was pretty good and  couldn’t imagine that would be invalidating or triggering but I was so wrong.

Her response “ I looked up harmony in the dictionary. It means a consistent, orderly arrangement of parts; a state of balance of balance among forces influencing and even opposing one another is that your goal for us?”

I quickly googled “harmonious relationships” and pasted this as my response. “ Harmony in relationships stems from our willingness to understand another person’s truth, without judging them or defending ourselves, to let their truth be true for them, and therefore, true. Harmony is born from our desire to genuinely know what another person’s reality looks and feels like, through their eyes and heart—not ours. To understand their truth beyond what we think of it.Harmony blooms when we have the courage to stop hearing another person’s experience solely through the lens of what it means to and about us. Like grace, it appears when we listen to know another human being—not as they exist in relation to us, but as they are. I hope we can both do that for each other.” 

I am sincere in wanting harmony but I don’t expect it. I find this so sad. Going to watch a movie with my husband and not going to respond to any more texts.

My therapist encouraged me to share the financial facts with her, but deep down, I guess I knew it would trigger her… I guess it is par for the course.

[Methuen]

You will get through this too.  Just know this.  IF this is about money and power, there is nothing you can do to arrest the inevitable rage.  You can navigate the hurdles and darts she throws at you perfectly, but if she needs a scapegoat to dump on, it’s  gonna happen anyways.  

She certainly sounds like she’s wanting a fight with the language in her texts.

Whatever she says or does on the day, don’t engage with her emotion.  Keep your cool - despite your fatigue and burnout.  It’s not fair that we have to always be the adult in the relationship, but it is what it is.  

I now secretly record all my conversations with my mom.  A few weeks ago she dumped the inevitable rage on me.  Just knowing that my phone was recording it, helped me so much, because it kept me accountable to myself and my own values.  I highly recommend it.  It was turned on face up inside my handbag which was zippered closed.  It caught everthing once I got it turned on.  My husband said it was like I had a kevlar vest on (when he heard it later).  But I don’t know if I could have performed like that (for myself) if my phone hadnt been recording.  I just knew I couldn’t disappoint myself, and I had to stay in control of  my emotions, stay analytical, and stay curious.

I survived and you will too.  The worst is the anticipation- when you know she is coming.  When she is there with your mom and yourself,  you will do what you have always done, and get the job done, regardless of what she does or doesn’t throw at you.

I do not recommend you have her at your house unless you have family in your room with you.  Within earshot might not be close  enough.  When my mom raged at me I was alone with her. It happened crossing the parking lot after leaving the medical clinic, during the drive home, and at her house, and when she crossed  the sanity line (after I had tried to settle her emotions), I had to exit the scene.  If it came to this and she was at your house,  what will your exit  strategy be?  Best to have a family member with you at all times, as a witness, and a tool for her to keep herself in check.  BPDs generally won’t abuse if someone else is present.

You can do this Mommydoc.  We’re all here with you.

And maybe just maybe things will be so “in hand” that she won’t create drama, and all this anxiety will have been for nothing.  

Still, it’s good to be prepared.  She sounds like  she’s in a fighting  mood, and you already know she’s carrying a load  of resentment.  Handle her with the same tools you’ve used with your most difficult patients, families, hospital donors etc.  You’ve got this too.  

[Notwendy]

Personally, I don't think harmony is a realistic goal with a pwBPD. I understand wanting it, but from my own experience their inability to manage their own emotions leads to unstable relationships. In addition, the closer the relationship, the more impact of the BPD behavior.

The word that comes to mind is discord.

Consider that managing your end of the discord may be more attainable- staying your ground while she dysregulates. She likely is bringing all kinds of emotions into this- jealousy, insecurity, wanting money- and these are projected on to you. In addition, the decline of your mother's health is a stressor on all of you- and you, yourself have been under stress. Then there's the triangle with you, her and your mother.

I agree, don't meet with her alone.

Sometimes self care brings a bit of clarity. You are taking care of your patients, your mother, and trying to diminish the distress for your sister. Don't neglect your own self care.

[zachira]

I recall you met with an attorney regarding your mother's estate. There is a big difference between having an attorney who represents the interests of both executors, which I assume are you and your sister, and one that represents your interests alone. I am hoping you have a plan to settle the estate quickly, so there will be less drama on the part of your sister. I realize your mother is failing, and in my experience, there is no such thing as too much knowledge or planning when dealing with a disordered person who has the power to cause major chaos and heartbreak. It is so painful to try to out think this type of person especially when you want to do what is best for everybody. I hope I am not being premature in suggesting all of this, as I realize your immediate concern is the next visit of your sister and the care of your mother while her health is failing.

[GaGrl]

I recall you met with an attorney regarding your mother's estate. There is a big difference between having an attorney who represents the interests of both executors, which I assume are you and your sister, and one that represents your interests alone. I am hoping you have a plan to settle the estate quickly, so there will be less drama on the part of your sister. I realize your mother is failing, and in my experience, there is no such thing as too much knowledge or planning when dealing with a disordered person who has the power to cause major chaos and heartbreak. It is so painful to try to out think this type of person especially when you want to do what is best for everybody. I hope I am not being premature in suggesting all of this, as I realize your immediate concern is the next visit of your sister and the care of your mother while her health is failing.

There is quick, and then there's quick. My mom died in June, and I just got her final tax filing done, could not close an account until that was done.

[Mommydoc]

I had to laugh when I saw Notwendy’s  comments regarding discord, bolded. That is a more accurate description of the situation for sure. I am realistic that harmony is not likely achievable.

One of the personal challenges I have been grappling with in therapy, is that in the past, I did everything I could to avoid conflict. Looking back, none of it worked, she raged regardless of my actions or words. If I pulled back, it enraged her, if I expressed my feelings it enraged her, and my son summarized it, as she loses it, nothing and you walk away hurt and sad, with a lot of self doubt. The work I am trying to do is to lean into my values and be authentic. I am crystal clear on my mom’s well-being being highest priority. I am getting there in realizing that My next priority is self, by focusing internally on my feelings, my self worth, and my confidence that though not perfect, I have been an excellent caregiver for my mom.  Avoiding conflict is not possible and not my job, if I do the first things right, it’s good enough.

To me harmony would mean I empathize, understand and validate her perspective and vice versa.

I don’t believe it is possible, and if it were possible, it would require her to develop a level,of self awareness that I think is unlikely.  The money thing never gets overtly stated so that becomes hard when her perspective is “Veiled” but I understand. It bugs her that I don’t care about the money and want to spend the money on mom, but she can’t say that.

Zachira, being proactive and trying to settle without an attorney is best case scenario. I mapped out a lot of the remaining tasks but getting a executors checklist from the trust attorney would be good. The trust attorney is crystal clear that her job is to represent the trust and interpret the language of the trust for us, but no more. This round she hasn’t mentioned an attorney, but it is a frequent threat she throws around. I am not worried about it, as I am willing to utilize an attorney if that helps us get to resolution. For me the trip would be a success if we could reach agreements or at least a common understanding of how we will manage the remaining assets when my mother passes. Which isn’t imminent, but not unexpected.

I began preparing my mom for her visit yesterday and tried to get her excited. When I asked her thoughts, she said “set your expectations low, that way you won’t be disappointed.” I kind of like the unfiltered place my mom has gotten to.

I am still struggling to figure out where to do it. She isn’t going to want my husband son around, so I am thinking a restaurant is neutral, allows us to limit time and is public enough.. she asked me last night where we should meet to talk and how much time I have… pondering the time.

[zachira]

Meeting with your sister without your husband and son or another person there sounds like you will be cornered and mistreated, and possibly agree to some things you will regret later. Do what you have to do to protect yourself. We get here how disagreable all the conflict is with a person with BPD and how no matter what you do, the conflicts seem to esclate. Getting an executors checklist from the trust attorney sounds like a good idea and could be something you want to have before you talk to your sister.

[Methuen]

I am still struggling to figure out where to do it. She isn’t going to want my husband son around, so I am thinking a restaurant is neutral, allows us to limit time and is public enough

She isn't going to want your husband and/or son around.  Hmmm...so what? Do her wants/needs take precedence over yours? If your H or son is at the restaurant with you, she can hardly ask them to leave...

On the other hand, if you decide you will meet up with her privately, I would again suggest the option of "recording" it safely from your handbag.  That way, if things go sideways, you have evidence of what was said, and how it was said.  It may come in handy down the road.  If all is good, you can just delete it.  This isn't something I would normally recommend. One can argue the ethics of it.  But none of us on this forum are detailing with normal situations or "typical" people, sometimes we have to protect ourselves, and I'm learning that sometimes I have to do things I'm not comfortable with in order to protect myself.  And then there's collecting... evidence.  Just a thought.

[GaGrl]

She can ASK that your husband or son not attend the meeting, but you can equally insist that one of them attend. You don't need to explain yourself. What can she do? Refuse to have the meeting? Oh, well.

[Riv3rW0lf]

She can ASK that your husband or son not attend the meeting, but you can equally insist that one of them attend. You don't need to explain yourself. What can she do? Refuse to have the meeting? Oh, well.

I second this.

I am starting to realize we got so used in being bullied by our mothers that we feel the anger of not being able to uphold boundaries but we don't use it, nor channel it to support ourselves, and if/when we do, we feel scared and ashamed and guilty. This has to stop at some point.

Anger is a beautiful emotion that can help to become more assertive.

I see no reason why she would get to choose who comes and who don't come. You have a right to protect yourself from her outburst. She may not understand why, but you don't need to explain yourself either.

[missing NC]

I have a slightly different take on your sister's query of "What is your goal for our relationship?” in response to receiving the financials and her continued mistrust upon receiving your reply of "Harmony."  Most estate planning attorneys who have been in their profession for any amount of time will tell you that money/inheritance that is fought over is largely symbolic of the love and attention of which the combative offspring felt shortchanged.  By switching immediately to talking about your relationship, your sister is making clear that her goals are not merely financial. 

BPD is as much a developmental defect as a personality disorder.  I recall Gabor Mate, MD saying that misbehaving children act out because they don't have the words to express what they are feeling. Therefor, they act it out.  Individuals with BPD have as much (or as little) cortical control as very small children.  Mate's work dovetails well with Steven Porges' polyvagal theory which posits that much of human behavior spring from our state of autonomic arousal rather than from cognitively directed goals. 

I believe your sister probably realizes she might lose you in addition to your mother and is looking for safety cues from you to calm her fears.  Oren Sofer, a communication instructor and author whose teaching focuses closely on managing autonomic arousal for both parts of a conversation dyad, recommends initiating fraught conversations with assurances that the relationship is important.  I realize your offering her such assurances may feel inauthentic given that you are considering cutting contact after the estate is settled, but the relationship is indeed important to you now for a number of reasons, not the least of which is your mother's wellbeing. 

I wish I had known two year ago when my mother was dying what I know now.  I did not offer such assurances early on when my sister began to dysregulate, and I regret it every day. 

However you proceed I wish you luck and equanimity. 

[Mommydoc]

Thank you all. The last two days have been challenging but thanks to your advice and support, realistic expectations and a lot of mental preparation, I survived it.

 As predicted she was very charming and kind when others were around. We had very positive interactions yesterday when she, my husband, son, mom and me were together at a  celebration event at my mom’s  assisted living.

When we met today to have our “conversation”, however, she was all over the place, very emotional. She has so many highly distorted narratives from our past that she threw  at me. I didn’t  tape it (just couldn’t get there from a “ do un to others” perspective) but we met up at a restaurant. Not ideal but safer in public than in private.

There were some positives, which I am trying to focus on. She was definitely trying, she was more focused on our relationship than the financial conversation. She told me that her interpretation of me sending the financial information and list of things to discuss was that she thought I was trying to plan a “Harmonious” divorce from her. She was very direct in asking for  validation that I wanted a relationship after my mother dies. I tried to clarify and validate her and think I was (momentarily at least) successful. She told me she had met an intuitive empath recently who told her that her purpose was to be my fathers spiritual guide to heaven and that she had been successful in that. He reassured her he had connected with my father and he is indeed in heaven . (Long standing narrative which led to a very unhealthy grieving process was that my actions/failed actions when our father was dying landed him in either purgatory or hell). He also told her that her anger towards me and the medical professionals was not serving my father and since he made it to heaven she needed to release it. She told me she was no longer angry and that she forgave me.  She also said that I had sometimes been a very good sister to her, and at times she had not been such a great sister and the reverse was also true. Again I validated her.

There was a lot of ranting, a lot of digging up of old completely false narratives, the normal paint me black, paint herself virtuous. She said she wanted to focus on the future and our mutual goals of “transparency, respect, honesty and harmony”.  When I asked her what that looked like it all focused on all all the ways I wronged her. I triggered her and unintentionally invalidated her multiple times. She made a big point of “setting boundaries” with me and frequently accused me of violating her boundaries. It was all “ about her” and it was very difficult not to get defensive. She told me that I never asked her what she thought about the decision, did it all behind her back and that the family meeting was after I had already moved my mom. ( all a completely false). She also said what I did was obviously illegal and she could have sued but didn’t to protect my mother from conflict. She pressed me hard to tell her how I could have managed it differently and getting increasingly agitated when the best I could do was tell her I had tried really hard and that I delayed the move due to her objections multiple times. I shared with her that respect to me meant respecting my role as HC power of attorney and how difficult the decision was in the face of her clear disagreement with it. That of course sent her into another rage and accusing me of violating her stated boundaries. She kept bringing up her request for me to go to counseling with her and asked that I think about it. My therapist thinks it is a bad idea.

BPD is as much a developmental defect as a personality disorder.  I recall Gabor Mate, MD saying that misbehaving children act out because they don't have the words to express what they are feeling. Therefor, they act it out.  Individuals with BPD have as much (or as little) cortical control as very small children.  Mate's work dovetails well with Steven Porges' polyvagal theory which posits that much of human behavior spring from our state of autonomic arousal rather than from cognitively directed goals.  I believe your sister probably realizes she might lose you in addition to your mother and is looking for safety cues from you to calm her fears.  Oren Sofer, a communication instructor and author whose teaching focuses closely on managing autonomic arousal for both parts of a conversation dyad, recommends initiating fraught conversations with assurances that the relationship is important.

That is so helpful. She is definitely afraid of losing me.  As I was driving to meet her, I saw a family lovingly dealing with their young adult son writhing on the ground. He appeared to have a cognitive behavioral condition and I admired how they were managing it. I thought about how I needed to focus on the fact that I love her, and to try to mentally think of her emotional dysregulation as a medical or behavioral condition. I wanted to demonstrate the love I feel towards her in a similar way to the family I witnessed with their son, “Love with appropriate boundaries.” Not easy, I wasn’t perfect, but probably shouldn’t have expected myself to be. Thank you missing NC as I will continue to focus on those reassurances. I am sincere in wanting a relationship in the long range, but not confident that it is possible. It will only happen if she is able to make changes. I see a few glimpses of positive progress in her thinking but they are mixed in with a lot of continued behaviors that aren’t conducive to a mutually respectful relationship.

I decided today that I need to gather and organize all the texts, emails and documents to create clear documentation trail of the sequence of events.  I don’t think she will sue me, but she mentions and makes enough veiled threats about it that I feel like I need to be prepared for that scenario.

All in all, I am proud of how I self managed.  All I can control is myself and I did well under pretty adverse circumstances. It’s not going away, but I will continue to take it one day at a time.

[Notwendy]

Good for you for doing this! Yes, we don't always manage it perfectly but it's still progress.

Yes, I also keep in mind that it's a mental illness with distorted thinking, yet, pwBPD can do things deliberately and are responsible for their behavior. Emotionally -I think they function more like small children. The Karpman triangle dynamics help me to keep in mind that victim perspective seems to predominate, at least for my mother and it seems this is how your sister is perceiving your actions as well.

It's frustrating to have your intentions interpreted in this way. For instance, you may send the financial information to her to be open and fair- she sees it as some form of you separating from her. You can not change how she perceives things. Her focus on the "ways you have wronged her". It is so frustrating as I have tried to do helpful things for my mother and she sees it this way too.

Your focus needs to be on your own knowledge that you are doing the right thing for your mother and also being fair to your sister, no matter how she sees it. I agree with being careful to document everything.

I have seen this kind of thinking with my mother and it is frustrating. She was getting some work done on her house. I recalled that I forgot to cover some furniture when I had work done and then had to clean it up. So, without thinking, I said " better cover the furniture well- as it was a mess for me to clean mine up" as I wish someone had advised me. So my intent came from "do unto others" but the way she saw it was that I was commanding her to do something and she shrieked " How dare you tell me what to do!" and on and on about it. I realized that even an innocent suggestion felt invalidating to her. I don't make suggestions to her now.

Remember what is true about you, and know that your sister's accusations don't change that.

[Mommydoc]

I am continuing to process the visit and as time and space have elapsed, I am trying to focus on the positive, while increasing my self awareness, self compassion and establishing reasonable boundaries. It is easy to get sucked into her charm when she is trying, and I have an innate tendency to assume good intent of others which will get me in trouble with her.

We made some progress on agreeing burial plans, for my mom. And she took some action items. The more we can make advance agreements on at this point the better. From my perspective, we are at a point, where there aren’t many decisions, and yet she feels like there are many. As an example, she wanted to know how future medical decisions would be made, and played quite a few scenarios, all of which really aren’t an issue because my mom’s decision to be in palliative care and her advanced directives, clearly outline her wishes. She seemed surprised but perhaps also relieved. She has a tendency to see all medical care as bad (when hospice nurse was trying to get my fathers fever down with a sponge bath (comfort measure) she interpreted that as giving antibiotics to prolong his life. It is hard to help her understand comfort care versus medical care because of her extreme mistrust of me and medical professionals in general. It could be a problem is if my mom needs additional nursing care at end of life, which my sister will disagree with. When the time comes, I will prioritize my mothers comfort and do what I need to do to make my sister feel included without sacrificing my moms comfort.

She wants to have weekly phone meetings, to talk though the various things we need to work through. She is continuing to push for counseling or as an alternative a “facilitator” or mediator. I chose not to say yes, but didn’t say no, she was OK with me not giving her an answer. She shared that we do “badly” when it is just the two of us. I am contemplating suggesting that we include both our husbands in the meetings, as I think our both genuinely would benefit from this relationship being more civil. My husband is all for it, but he doesn’t think she will agree to it. I asked if we could wait until next week to begin these meetings. Appreciate any guidance to establish clear boundaries for these discussions that she might agree to as well as to assure they are productive. I think the structure will help her and make me feel less vulnerable.  I am comfortable saying this meeting isn’t going well, let’s end it, but think if we can have a few short meetings that go well, it may may the tougher topics go better.

[Notwendy]

It's hard to not feel a pull when presented with her thinking.

A couple of thoughts. The loss of, or impending loss of a parent is difficult for anybody. Since pwBPD have difficulty regulating their feelings- and their behaviors are how they manage them, it makes sense that these behaviors will increase at times of stress.

PwBPD tend to project their feelings outwards, so it makes sense that your sister sees you, or the medical staff as being the source of her feelings, rather than to recognize that she, herself, is feeling upset at her mother's medical situation.

This isn't just for BPD but is common for people with anxiety- control is a way people manage anxiety- the extreme form of this is OCD but pwBPD can be controlling to manage their anxiety and fears.

Her request for weekly calls and to have someone present is a need of hers- and it makes sense. You are both dealing with an unknown. You can not predict how long your mother will live but you also don't know that she is declining. Your sister may do better when other things are predictable. She may actually fear you will abandon her if your mother is gone.

That's very real. Although my mother's BPD behaviors escalated during my father's illness, one reason I think she held on to some of his possessions that she knew I wanted and didn't give them to me is that she may have felt she had to have something I wanted or I wouldn't visit. So I had to disconnect those two ideas and visit her without asking for anything. While the visits are still very difficult, I needed to make it clear that the possessions were not the reason. ( not for me to get them, the truth is, they aren't the reason).

A very wise friend advised me to set up a call schedule with her. This way, she knew I would call on this schedule and not abandon her. Also if she did call another time, I could say "this isn't a good time to talk but we will speak next ( scheduled ) day. If weekly is too much for you, you could say "every other week" or "monthly"- I think it's the schedule that makes the difference. Your sister knows you will call her. A routine is helpful when dealing with a stressful situation.

A third party can tone down the conversations between you but I suggest a neutral one and not your spouses. Your H can be triggering to her. Her H is not objective, he hears her side of things. If you can agree on a mutual neutral person, that's better. If her H is connected to her, he's part of the drama. The more people who are not neutral- the more drama. You want to avoid this. I think a third witness is good so you don't get falsely accused of something or misinterpreted. Do not let it be her and her H and just you. That's a triangle. I don't think a mediator is a bad idea, but you need a neutral one.

Keep in mind that she doesn't have the exposure to the medical setting that you have. For some people, even the smell of the disinfectant in a hospital is uncomfortable. Seeing a parent with IV tubing, or a monitor can be distressing. They don't really understand what is going on. Also, with distorted thinking she can come up with her own ideas. I think for you, you can clearly see what is going on and these things are very familiar to you but not to her. I wonder if the staff has any patient education literature, or if there is a book or website that can explain these things to her. It won't change her distrust or twisted thinking, but it may be that she requires more explanation of the kind of care you mother is receiving.

[Mommydoc]

Things are stable, but challenging. We arranged the first meeting a couple weeks ago, and it was strained but OK. My husband feels anything that doesn’t include a blow up is success. Afterwards she said she wanted to capture the agreements and would send me a summary for input. I said great idea, thank you. The night before the second call, she said she wasn’t available and needed more time to review her notes and send the summary. I said no problem, hope everything is OK. No response, days go by, and then she sends a cryptic text saying she doesn’t understand my perspective, and a couple very vague sentences that really didn’t reflect the conversation at all. She distorted some things significantly, but she did ask me to edit and add to it. I thanked her, said I agreed but had some things to add.

After I read it, I honestly began to wonder if my sister has serious memory or cognitive deficit. Maybe she just totally disassociates when in conversation with me. She didn’t capture 95% of a 15 minute relatively benign conversation where we actually made agreements around the things she wanted to talk about and I agreed to everything she suggested .

Sent her a summary, which she then responded to saying she was glad I shared it because it is different than her interpretation and that we should both write down our recollections for next meeting. ( I already had!) I only included areas where I really thought we had made agreements. I asked her to share with me where her perspective differs before we meet again. Instead of doing that I got an invite for a zoom meeting time tomorrow morning that totally doesn’t work for me. I responded immediately and offered an alternate time. And of course no response.

I get it… she needs control. She didn’t want to meet with me last week and probably doesn’t want to tomorrow, but she wants it to be my fault.

I like the documenting the agreements, as it gets my understanding on paper, and creates a paper trail for the future. She wants to be included in decisions but she also wants to be able to disagree and block every decision.

At this point, there are very few things that I will stand up for. Keeping my mom in her current setting is maybe the only one. I am very willing to agree with her on everything else.

Sorry for venting, just sick of it. I really miss low contact!

[Notwendy]

I agree.

Talking to my BPD mother is like talking through a filter that rearranges words and adds meaning to them to somehow reflect her own emotional thinking. Even the most innocent statement can turn into what she thinks is an order and she gets indignant if she thinks someone is telling her what to do. Or she feels invalidated when there is no intent to do so. She makes her own meaning out of the situation.

My mother also wants control and so getting her to commit to something is a challenge, even if the intent is to assist her. A while ago, her car was in the shop and we offered to help her pick it up. We were there at the time and it made sense to do that, because she'd need to find someone to help otherwise. All we asked her to do was call the shop to see if it was ready and ask what time to pick it up, and she refused to do that- just to make the point that we should not tell her what to do. It was a big deal just to get her to let us pick up her car for her.

I asked her to share with me where her perspective differs before we meet again



She probably can't do this. Her emotions are not logical. Her perspective is emotional and hard to put into words.

The two of you don't think the same way. You have been trained to look at facts and put them into a cohesive explanation. I have read the phrase that for someone with BPD, "feelings equal facts". If they feel it, it must be true. So while you are thinking" elderly parent who needs assistance with daily tasks" your sister is thinking "you think you are the favorite child"

It feels crazy to try to have a logical conversation in this situation. I think the best advice is to say what you have to say as succinctly as possible and document /record everything. Zoom is good because you can record it. This way, you have a record of what was said and done.

As much as you wish for her to see and hear you as you truly are, you can't change her "filter". It's hard, I know. I think all you can do is the best you can for your mother, document, share facts with your sister but try to minimize the chaos.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I second this, for pwBPD, feelings equal facts, very true.

I observed that when I am saying something to BPDm, while trying to control my emotions and remaining calm, she doesn't hear what I am saying. Her whole focus is on my body and the feelings she can pick up. And she is looking for reactions.

She doesn't really care what I am saying, she already made up her mind. It's as if she is just looking to provoke a reaction from me that will confirm her own story.

She doesn't care about the truth, which is probably somewhere in between my story and hers. To know the truth all perspectives on a fact must be shared and understood by all parties. But she cannot do that. Even when I take out all blames out from my speech. She already made up her mind that I was blaming her and she acts like it.

They don't live in the present with us. They live in a distorted world where rationality and logic is not welcome. Which makes it very hard for us to understand them.

[Mommydoc]

Thank you NotWendy and Riv3rWOlf. You nailed it. I marvel at how predictable it all is.

She probably can't do this. Her emotions are not logical. Her perspective is emotional and hard to put into words.

Of course not. I went back and look at our texts and emails: her initial email suggesting documenting the conversation “ I would like to review what we have discussed” then “ I need more time to review my notes” followed by “Here is my account” ( essentially nothing except the distortion). When I send my summary of agreements, it turns into “her memory is different”, She will share her “Memories” Subtle shift from “Notes” to “Memories, definitely shifting into her feelings about the meeting, not the discussion.  Her memory is going to be all about how I made her feel. And she canceled again! 2 weeks in a row. And of course that will be my fault too.  I love

for someone with BPD, "feelings equal facts". If they feel it, it must be true.

.. very important to keep reminding ourselves that achieving agreement will be always hampered by  feelings=facts that will always center on how the pwBPD  is mistreated.

I observed that when I am saying something to BPDm, while trying to control my emotions and remaining calm, she doesn't hear what I am saying. Her whole focus is on my body and the feelings she can pick up. And she is looking for reactions. She doesn't really care what I am saying, she already made up her mind. It's as if she is just looking to provoke a reaction from me that will confirm her own story…they live in a distorted world… 

I also experience that. It throws me off, because it’s hard to respond to. I might furrow my brow or pause before speaking and it is the crime of the century, she goes off on me and it is impossible to get back to where we were,  when I am just trying to be thoughtful and not react. At the same time she is screeching or yelling  and has no self awareness. We have never recorded our meetings, but I see it as an opportunity, particularly since it is her idea. as she has very little ability to self manage unless someone else is around. I can. But I think the camera being on may be like an observer and she might do better… and if not, and she goes off on me, we have for he first time ever captured it on camera.

I am working on radical acceptance. I felt so mentally prepared for this meeting. Really trying to move to acceptance, observing and noting and not trying to change the outcome, just flowing with it. And not upset about no meeting either. The paper trail will serve me well in the long run. Trying to give 1% of my time and energy to this and 99% time and energy into the relationships and areas of my life that are positive and fulfilling.

[livednlearned]

I believe your sister probably realizes she might lose you in addition to your mother and is looking for safety cues from you to calm her fears.

I feel like I am seeing years into the future with your thread, Mommydoc, and this insight from missing NC is so valid it took my breath away.

Every time someone (family) or something (beloved pet) dies, it is scorched earth in our family. The loss of a loved one becomes terrifying as BPD brother expresses rage in place of grief and sorrow.

The inability to properly grieve during the dying process is its own source of grief.