Lack of self esteem or narcissism/codependency?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I've seen a lot about how we fall into relationships with pwBPD due to a lack of self esteem/trauma in our own history. For me, it seems more like a narcissistic/codependent thing. I didn't stay because I don't value myself. Rather, I felt like I had it so much "together" that if anyone could help her, it would be me. Kind of like the love can fix it fallacy in that 10 fallacies (or similar name, I forget the exact name) article on here.

Can anyone relate? If so, how did you heal from this and detach?

I like myself and know I deserve a healthy relationship, but I also can't help but feeling that if anyone can help her, it's me, due to our shared history, confidence, calm demeanor, persistence, stability, money, resources, etc.

[WhatToDo47]

I've seen a lot about how we fall into relationships with pwBPD due to a lack of self esteem/trauma in our own history. For me, it seems more like a narcissistic/codependent thing. I didn't stay because I don't value myself. Rather, I felt like I had it so much "together" that if anyone could help her, it would be me. Kind of like the love can fix it fallacy in that 10 fallacies (or similar name, I forget the exact name) article on here.

Can anyone relate? If so, how did you heal from this and detach?

I like myself and know I deserve a healthy relationship, but I also can't help but feeling that if anyone can help her, it's me, due to our shared history, confidence, calm demeanor, persistence, stability, money, resources, etc.

[drumdog4M]

I certainly can relate. I thought if I loved her more, listened more, provided more security, empathy, validation that I could be the one with whom she could find happiness. Sometimes that honestly seemed to be the case. But then something would happen, often something small, and everything would fall apart. And when it did, all my investment of time, energy, love, and emotion seemed erased in its entirety in an instant.

[Ellala]

Yes, I too can relate. I felt my love, empathy, patience, care, and understanding could provide the stability for my expwBPD to get beyond his instability and fears.  He had said he wanted to "do the work"/heal  and I felt I was a super supportive partner in that…Ultimately, despite all the beautiful words about wanting to grow and then the apologies for all the reactivity, he didn't want to the work (or may be just couldn't)… take responsibility for his reactivity/pain and the effects of his actions.

I have no doubt that both you and I could support our exes if they were committed to their own healing.  

If they don't want to change though, or aren't fully committed to doing it, then nothing we do will make a difference…And worse… I started to see my support, care, and tolerance  as just enabling bad behaviors.

How to heal from this and detach?
I am focusing on the fact that if my ex wanted help, and help from me, he would ask and show a sincere commitment.
And if he doesn't, the most loving and honoring thing I can do is accept that.
Trying to "fix", help, or change him, is not loving him.
Also, I am not sure your age… but I am thinking about how my time here is limited… I can't get it back… and instead of trying to help or love someone who doesn't want it, or really love me deeply, I am using this time to heal the wounds that made such an unstable relationship seem ok, acceptable, and even desirable to me.

El

[WhatToDo47]

I certainly can relate. I thought if I loved her more, listened more, provided more security, empathy, validation that I could be the one with whom she could find happiness. Sometimes that honestly seemed to be the case. But then something would happen, often something small, and everything would fall apart. And when it did, all my investment of time, energy, love, and emotion seemed erased in its entirety in an instant.

Yup. Exactly the same here. Support her through suicide attempts, job after job, defend her against her abusive family, always pick up the phone and be there for her 24/7, she seemed so thankful. Until one day, for a reason I think she still doesn't even understand, she (literally these were her words) "changed her mind" and "loves me but not in love with me right now."

So frustrating and emotionally shattering. Glad to know I'm not alone.

[WhatToDo47]

Yes, I too can relate. I felt my love, empathy, patience, care, and understanding could provide the stability for my expwBPD to get beyond his instability and fears.  He had said he wanted to "do the work"/heal  and I felt I was a super supportive partner in that…Ultimately, despite all the beautiful words about wanting to grow and then the apologies for all the reactivity, he didn't want to the work (or may be just couldn't)… take responsibility for his reactivity/pain and the effects of his actions.

I have no doubt that both you and I could support our exes if they were committed to their own healing.  

If they don't want to change though, or aren't fully committed to doing it, then nothing we do will make a difference…And worse… I started to see my support, care, and tolerance  as just enabling bad behaviors.

How to heal from this and detach?
I am focusing on the fact that if my ex wanted help, and help from me, he would ask and show a sincere commitment.
And if he doesn't, the most loving and honoring thing I can do is accept that.
Trying to "fix", help, or change him, is not loving him.
Also, I am not sure your age… but I am thinking about how my time here is limited… I can't get it back… and instead of trying to help or love someone who doesn't want it, or really love me deeply, I am using this time to heal the wounds that made such an unstable relationship seem ok, acceptable, and even desirable to me.

El

You said that well. She also put in the word, hours of therapy, beautiful words about growth and change, then something would trigger her and all that was out the window. And I was controlling for supporting her in becoming healthy. SO FRUSTRATING!
I think that’s one of the most frustrating aspects of it. Pretty much all of the crises and drama in my ex’s life were self inflicted, done because she was convinced I was going to abandon her one day, which I never was, told her and showed her over and over again that I never was going to. If she had kept doing the work, we could have made it through. We were making progress. Until she didn’t “feel it” anymore, and now she’s acting like this is totally normal behavior and everyone else is crazy, even though she’s the only one whose life is falling apart and pushing everyone away so as not to be abandoned. Just tragic and heartbreaking.

I also am afraid of enabling her at this point. I guess we do have to accept that no one can make them seek help, except them. I’ve left her on my health insurance and told her multiple times that I would support her going back to therapy and getting help, but she simply won’t right now.
I think you are viewing your situation very healthy, and I know both of you did all you could and would and will make loving and healthy partners to someone who can reciprocate that, if that’s what you want.
I am relatively young (30) and I do want to raise a family one day, which makes all of this even harder. In her best moments, I saw her as the most amazing, loving, genuine future mother ever. Now I don’t even trust her around a stranger’s dog. So sad.
I think we all have wounds to examine and heal, so that we don’t accept or sickly desire these types of relationships. Maybe one day relationships will work with these people, but not with this behavior. It doesn’t help them and it doesn’t help us.
Ironically, I’m coming to realize that by not addressing OUR wounds and why we want to help people who don’t want, appreciate our help we are doing the same as them, just with a different dysfunction.
You’ve both given me a lot to think about. Thank you!

[NotAHero]

I've seen a lot about how we fall into relationships with pwBPD due to a lack of self esteem/trauma in our own history. For me, it seems more like a narcissistic/codependent thing. I didn't stay because I don't value myself. Rather, I felt like I had it so much "together" that if anyone could help her, it would be me. Kind of like the love can fix it fallacy in that 10 fallacies (or similar name, I forget the exact name) article on here.

Can anyone relate? If so, how did you heal from this and detach?

I like myself and know I deserve a healthy relationship, but I also can't help but feeling that if anyone can help her, it's me, due to our shared history, confidence, calm demeanor, persistence, stability, money, resources, etc.

 Once you are painted black there is nothing you can do for her. Nothing.
 
 Doesn’t matter how much you care, how much resources you have, what you can do…doesn’t matter. You will be replaced with the next unlucky victim in a long line before you and after you. The lucky ones are the emotional predators with no real feelings who dump her soon enough.

[Ellala]

Reading your responses was helpful WhatToDo.
Sounds like you are getting clear.

Two things you wrote stuck out to me:

"...And I was controlling for supporting her in becoming healthy. SO FRUSTRATING!"

My ex would turn my support around on me too! The very behaviors and support he expressed deep appreciation for, would be used against me when he was triggered… like I was a villain for caring. YES, SO FRUSTRATING! Total self sabotage/destructive behavior… I am sorry you experienced this too. It does help hearing your experience though… to know it wasn't personal… but rather a dysfunctional pattern of the illness.

"...she seemed so thankful. Until one day, for a reason I think she still doesn't even understand, she (literally these were her words) "changed her mind" and "loves me but not in love with me right now."

My ex expressed more gratitude than anyone I have ever known. I felt my time and efforts were deeply appreciated. I felt appreciated.  Until one day, he said, in a robotic tone, "I need to break up. I was just in love with the idea of you…I never loved you." Within a week, he was super remorseful and apologized and said he did love me. Not knowing about BPD, we got back together… after deeper intimacy and more love, he one day said, "I love you and I can't be in relationship"… No reason.  He emailed and gave some "reasons", which only created more confusion…. his narrative of the relationship seemed to make him into the nice guy, and me into the villain again for not understanding. 

I trust you will meet a woman who adores you and will treat you with consistent, stable, love and respect. That's the kind of relationship you and your children deserve.

El

[WhatToDo47]

Once you are painted black there is nothing you can do for her. Nothing.
 
 Doesn’t matter how much you care, how much resources you have, what you can do…doesn’t matter. You will be replaced with the next unlucky victim in a long line before you and after you. The lucky ones are the emotional predators with no real feelings who dump her soon enough.

Yeah, I've seen this playing out. She replaced me almost immediately, after I was her husband, "the love of her life," her everything, etc. And she wants me to applaud her for practicing "self love" and she didn't leave "me" she just took care of herself, in her words, and wants me to applaud that.

[WhatToDo47]

Reading your responses was helpful WhatToDo.
Sounds like you are getting clear.

Two things you wrote stuck out to me:

"...And I was controlling for supporting her in becoming healthy. SO FRUSTRATING!"

My ex would turn my support around on me too! The very behaviors and support he expressed deep appreciation for, would be used against me when he was triggered… like I was a villain for caring. YES, SO FRUSTRATING! Total self sabotage/destructive behavior… I am sorry you experienced this too. It does help hearing your experience though… to know it wasn't personal… but rather a dysfunctional pattern of the illness.

"...she seemed so thankful. Until one day, for a reason I think she still doesn't even understand, she (literally these were her words) "changed her mind" and "loves me but not in love with me right now."

My ex expressed more gratitude than anyone I have ever known. I felt my time and efforts were deeply appreciated. I felt appreciated.  Until one day, he said, in a robotic tone, "I need to break up. I was just in love with the idea of you…I never loved you." Within a week, he was super remorseful and apologized and said he did love me. Not knowing about BPD, we got back together… after deeper intimacy and more love, he one day said, "I love you and I can't be in relationship"… No reason.  He emailed and gave some "reasons", which only created more confusion…. his narrative of the relationship seemed to make him into the nice guy, and me into the villain again for not understanding. 

I trust you will meet a woman who adores you and will treat you with consistent, stable, love and respect. That's the kind of relationship you and your children deserve.

El

Thank you. I am definitely working hard on myself, here, with my therapist to de FOG myself before the inevitable full on recycle attempt that I know is coming when her new man “lets her down” and/or she runs out of money and remembers I make a lot of it.
It's so crazy how you had such similar experiences to me, even though your ex is male. The patterns seem even to cross genders. It was this horrible catch 22 of if you help them they will later make you into a villain for trying to “parent”/control them and if you don’t help them you will be accused of not caring/abandoning them, despite praising you when you save them. Definitely not personal, and I think when they’re triggered/splitting you they can warp anything into being your fault. They are very good at gas lighting and projecting.
I’ve recently been reading about the colloquial term broken winged sparrow syndrome on here, and I think I suffer from it and it sounds like you do, too. They are SO good at playing the victim, because they really believe they always are the victim!
I also felt appreciated, loved, cherished. She told me that I “got her” like no one else. She felt safe, secure, loved, thanked me SO many times for not abandoning her when she had round after round of self sabotage and paranoia. I can hear that robotic tone in my head, it’s the same one my ex used. She got a blank, cold look in her eyes and simply said “I can’t do this anymore, I love you but I’m not in love with you.” She hasn’t expressed full remorse yet, but I expect it to come and expect it not to last.
The warped narrative he gave you sounds so much like my ex’s warped narrative, too. She never gave me a real reason either, just variations of “I still love you, but I need to do me right now and learn how to stand on my own 2 feet without you. If you love me, you’ll understand that and wait to see if I change my mind.” Crazy making.
One thing I can tell you for sure, you were an amazing partner and did all you could. You deserve better. There is NOTHING you could have done to prevent this. I know that’s the truth but it’s still hard to accept.
She hasn’t tried to full on recycle yet, but I think that’s largely because she’s in another state now and would need to have me as “sure thing” before she felt comfortable making the journey back. Do you have any advice/experience/stories from your recycle to help me stay strong?
Thank you for your kind words. I trust that you will meet a man who adores you too and will treat you with the consistent, stable love and respect that you deserve as well. We all deserve that. So thankful for each and every one of you, truly!

[Mack1]

You said that well. She also put in the word, hours of therapy, beautiful words about growth and change, then something would trigger her and all that was out the window. And I was controlling for supporting her in becoming healthy. SO FRUSTRATING!
I think that’s one of the most frustrating aspects of it. Pretty much all of the crises and drama in my ex’s life were self inflicted, done because she was convinced I was going to abandon her one day, which I never was, told her and showed her over and over again that I never was going to. If she had kept doing the work, we could have made it through. We were making progress. Until she didn’t “feel it” anymore, and now she’s acting like this is totally normal behavior and everyone else is crazy, even though she’s the only one whose life is falling apart and pushing everyone away so as not to be abandoned. Just tragic and heartbreaking.

I also am afraid of enabling her at this point. I guess we do have to accept that no one can make them seek help, except them. I’ve left her on my health insurance and told her multiple times that I would support her going back to therapy and getting help, but she simply won’t right now.
I think you are viewing your situation very healthy, and I know both of you did all you could and would and will make loving and healthy partners to someone who can reciprocate that, if that’s what you want.
I am relatively young (30) and I do want to raise a family one day, which makes all of this even harder. In her best moments, I saw her as the most amazing, loving, genuine future mother ever. Now I don’t even trust her around a stranger’s dog. So sad.
I think we all have wounds to examine and heal, so that we don’t accept or sickly desire these types of relationships. Maybe one day relationships will work with these people, but not with this behavior. It doesn’t help them and it doesn’t help us.
Ironically, I’m coming to realize that by not addressing OUR wounds and why we want to help people who don’t want, appreciate our help we are doing the same as them, just with a different dysfunction.
You’ve both given me a lot to think about. Thank you!

[/quote]

[Mack1]

I hear you all. Sometimes I think we all must be existing in a parallel universe as all our wife/husband/partners all sound identical.
I never lost my self-respect of esteem but felt just worn out and scunnered by all the drama.
But I’m so glad I realise now, due to this site and others, it wasn’t all me. And it’s kind of reassuring now when I interact with her(soon to be separated) when she speaks about the relationship failing I can almost guess her answers and responses.
For me now it is a battle between BPD and me.
Calm responses, validate her feeling of how it all went wrong until we part.
Then sit back and wait for the inevitable crash while moving on to a happier place.

[Ellala]

Thank you. I am definitely working hard on myself, here, with my therapist to de FOG myself before the inevitable full on recycle attempt that I know is coming when her new man “lets her down” and/or she runs out of money and remembers I make a lot of it.
It's so crazy how you had such similar experiences to me, even though your ex is male. The patterns seem even to cross genders. It was this horrible catch 22 of if you help them they will later make you into a villain for trying to “parent”/control them and if you don’t help them you will be accused of not caring/abandoning them, despite praising you when you save them. Definitely not personal, and I think when they’re triggered/splitting you they can warp anything into being your fault. They are very good at gas lighting and projecting.
I’ve recently been reading about the colloquial term broken winged sparrow syndrome on here, and I think I suffer from it and it sounds like you do, too. They are SO good at playing the victim, because they really believe they always are the victim!
I also felt appreciated, loved, cherished. She told me that I “got her” like no one else. She felt safe, secure, loved, thanked me SO many times for not abandoning her when she had round after round of self sabotage and paranoia. I can hear that robotic tone in my head, it’s the same one my ex used. She got a blank, cold look in her eyes and simply said “I can’t do this anymore, I love you but I’m not in love with you.” She hasn’t expressed full remorse yet, but I expect it to come and expect it not to last.
The warped narrative he gave you sounds so much like my ex’s warped narrative, too. She never gave me a real reason either, just variations of “I still love you, but I need to do me right now and learn how to stand on my own 2 feet without you. If you love me, you’ll understand that and wait to see if I change my mind.” Crazy making.
One thing I can tell you for sure, you were an amazing partner and did all you could. You deserve better. There is NOTHING you could have done to prevent this. I know that’s the truth but it’s still hard to accept.
She hasn’t tried to full on recycle yet, but I think that’s largely because she’s in another state now and would need to have me as “sure thing” before she felt comfortable making the journey back. Do you have any advice/experience/stories from your recycle to help me stay strong?
Thank you for your kind words. I trust that you will meet a man who adores you too and will treat you with the consistent, stable love and respect that you deserve as well. We all deserve that. So thankful for each and every one of you, truly!

Thank you. There are so many parallels. It does make it all seem so impersonal… which on one hand is great.. and on the other it's like, whoa! was none of that special?  

Sorry for my late reply. Site was down and I was off on a ski trip. Gave me a much needed shift in perspective and I even went on a date.

As far as how to stay strong… do you drink coffee? Have you ever quit? When I quit coffee I had really bad withdrawals for 3 weeks… they were so bad that I decided I wouldn't ever drink coffee again bc I never wanted to experience the withdrawal. Kind of like that… After I understood the patterns in my ex's behaviors and how I responded/reacted and was effected, I could see how harmful it would be to open up again. Unless there was some kind of seriously profound changes. The relationship dynamic wasn't workable or supportive of the kind of loving partnership I desire. I don't want to put myself in this pain again.  

Knowing what you know now, feeling what you feel now, would you want to sign up for this again?  Or even risk it, knowing it could be worse?

I was naive after the 1st break up, I believed the apologies, the sincerity of his remorse. So I never imagined he would break up in a similar way again (especially because he said how wrong what he did was… that our connection had deserved a discussion at the very least).  Fast forward to the 2nd breakup- that was way more painful than the 1st and again, there was no discussion. Totally unilateral. There was nothing mutual or amicable about it and not even an opening for any discusssion.

Not until last week… 3 months since the breakup/1.5 months since the last contact. I actually spoke with my ex last week and shared what I needed to. I expressed how his actions landed for me. I was curious if he would have a listening or any empathy after having some space. He was reactive, called me a victim, said that I was getting what I was putting out.  I felt some closure from the call… there was no listening or care for my feelings or how his actions had effected me… no responsibility… so how could a relationship ever have worked?

Right after the call, I got an email full of apologies. Expressing how he knows he messed up. How he didn't have a listening, how he understands how I would feel the way I feel. He half took responsibility for his lack of integrity.  There was some validation in that.. but only minor.. .because to me, if he were sorry, he would show me in actions… like for example he apologized for not saying sorry on the phone…. well that is easily remedied… just pick up the phone and say it.. Words are not the same as actions. With distance and space, the push/pull dynamics seem so obvious.

I have also been reading the book, "Search for the Real Self" and that is giving me a lot of insight and understanding. I have been feeling acceptance that my ex's healing will only happen when and if he chooses it. And for now, I am choosing to focus on mine.

Sorry for this long rant here... guess  I would just say about the recycle, stay true to yourself and committed to what you really want. While the connection could temporarily feel good, do you believe it will lead to the kind of relationship or life you desire?

[NotAHero]

Thank you. There are so many parallels. It does make it all seem so impersonal… which on one hand is great.. and on the other it's like, whoa! was none of that special?  

Sorry for my late reply. Site was down and I was off on a ski trip. Gave me a much needed shift in perspective and I even went on a date.

As far as how to stay strong… do you drink coffee? Have you ever quit? When I quit coffee I had really bad withdrawals for 3 weeks… they were so bad that I decided I wouldn't ever drink coffee again bc I never wanted to experience the withdrawal. Kind of like that… After I understood the patterns in my ex's behaviors and how I responded/reacted and was effected, I could see how harmful it would be to open up again. Unless there was some kind of seriously profound changes. The relationship dynamic wasn't workable or supportive of the kind of loving partnership I desire. I don't want to put myself in this pain again.  

Knowing what you know now, feeling what you feel now, would you want to sign up for this again?  Or even risk it, knowing it could be worse?

I was naive after the 1st break up, I believed the apologies, the sincerity of his remorse. So I never imagined he would break up in a similar way again (especially because he said how wrong what he did was… that our connection had deserved a discussion at the very least).  Fast forward to the 2nd breakup- that was way more painful than the 1st and again, there was no discussion. Totally unilateral. There was nothing mutual or amicable about it and not even an opening for any discusssion.

Not until last week… 3 months since the breakup/1.5 months since the last contact. I actually spoke with my ex last week and shared what I needed to. I expressed how his actions landed for me. I was curious if he would have a listening or any empathy after having some space. He was reactive, called me a victim, said that I was getting what I was putting out.  I felt some closure from the call… there was no listening or care for my feelings or how his actions had effected me… no responsibility… so how could a relationship ever have worked?

Right after the call, I got an email full of apologies. Expressing how he knows he messed up. How he didn't have a listening, how he understands how I would feel the way I feel. He half took responsibility for his lack of integrity.  There was some validation in that.. but only minor.. .because to me, if he were sorry, he would show me in actions… like for example he apologized for not saying sorry on the phone…. well that is easily remedied… just pick up the phone and say it.. Words are not the same as actions. With distance and space, the push/pull dynamics seem so obvious.

I have also been reading the book, "Search for the Real Self" and that is giving me a lot of insight and understanding. I have been feeling acceptance that my ex's healing will only happen when and if he chooses it. And for now, I am choosing to focus on mine.

Sorry for this long rant here... guess  I would just say about the recycle, stay true to yourself and committed to what you really want. While the connection could temporarily feel good, do you believe it will lead to the kind of relationship or life you desire?

  Taking “half the blame” is a classic narcissist / borderline move.

 “ I apologized for my part apologize for yours “ when it’s 100% them that ruined everything and taking “half “ the fault isn’t genuine at all, just a bait.

[Ellala]

  Taking “half the blame” is a classic narcissist / borderline move.

 “ I apologized for my part apologize for yours “ when it’s 100% them that ruined everything and taking “half “ the fault isn’t genuine at all, just a bait.

I am not sure he was looking for an apology from me.. who knows though…

he said: I know I hurt you by going against my word, having low integrity, and not being clear. "But I do understand how those would be your takeaways".

"but" negates what comes before it and by saying he understands how those could be my takeaways, I do not feel he is taking responsibility for his choices or actions… more just admitting that I could have seen him like that… not that he actually did those things.

also: "I didn't behave well… my reactivity is proof of much work to be done."

If he knows that and was sincere, I would have seen work/actions to behave differently.

My sense was that by apologizing, he is looking for my forgiveness. That would allow him to feel better about what he did… I just don't sense or see sincerity in his apology. For me, there would need to be supportive actions.
Since he apologized much more elaborately in the past, and I forgave him, but nothing changed…(in fact the behaviors actually got worse) I came to see his apologies like band aids… to cover up for the poor behaviors instead of looking more deeply at himself and why he did those things...

[NotAHero]

I am not sure he was looking for an apology from me.. who knows though…

he said: I know I hurt you by going against my word, having low integrity, and not being clear. "But I do understand how those would be your takeaways".

"but" negates what comes before it and by saying he understands how those could be my takeaways, I do not feel he is taking responsibility for his choices or actions… more just admitting that I could have seen him like that… not that he actually did those things.

also: "I didn't behave well… my reactivity is proof of much work to be done."

If he knows that and was sincere, I would have seen work/actions to behave differently.

My sense was that by apologizing, he is looking for my forgiveness. That would allow him to feel better about what he did… I just don't sense or see sincerity in his apology. For me, there would need to be supportive actions.
Since he apologized much more elaborately in the past, and I forgave him, but nothing changed…(in fact the behaviors actually got worse) I came to see his apologies like band aids… to cover up for the poor behaviors instead of looking more deeply at himself and why he did those things...

 They do that for validation. The ultimate goal is to project the guilt on you. I don’t see anything good coming out of interacting with them post relationship. It only prolongs the healing.

[Ellala]

They do that for validation. The ultimate goal is to project the guilt on you. I don’t see anything good coming out of interacting with them post relationship. It only prolongs the healing.

Yes, I believe he was looking for validation.

In my case, I felt speaking to my ex gave me some closure. My heart has felt less burdened and entangled since.  I could see clearly why a relationship was unworkable. I actually felt relieved to have said what I needed to say… how the trust was broken.  I expressed how my boundaries were violated.
His lack of listening, empathy, and responsibility for the effects of his actions, showed me this is not a person with the capacity for a loving relationship or friendship.  Speaking with him was a part of my healing process.

[NotAHero]

Yes, I believe he was looking for validation.

In my case, I felt speaking to my ex gave me some closure. My heart has felt less burdened and entangled since.  I could see clearly why a relationship was unworkable. I actually felt relieved to have said what I needed to say… how the trust was broken.  I expressed how my boundaries were violated.
His lack of listening, empathy, and responsibility for the effects of his actions, showed me this is not a person with the capacity for a loving relationship or friendship.  Speaking with him was a part of my healing process.

 If it’s fresh and you were still looking for closure then yes I can see how it helped. I had to do that few times actually and the responses made me say to myself  “ I have to thank her for never saying the right things or even trying it understand”.

 I meant that after it’s all said and done, the interactions with them are typically not a pleasurable experience. Last time she wanted “to talk” I just said there is nothing left to talk about. Left it at that.

[WhatToDo47]

That all helps so much. It does sometimes seem like they are living in a parallel, and very cold and lonely and angry, universe that I don't want to be a resident of. I get the need for some closure. I've had a similar experience. I learned about BPD after she left, and now that I know about it, I can predict EXACTLY what she will say/do. It's sad really. But it still doesn't change the fact that she acts in destructive ways and shows no remorse, empathy, or concern for how it affects others. One theme I'm seeing a lot here is trust actions not words. True for everyone but especially for a pwBPD.

[WalkingonEggshel]

Wow, reading this is like hearing most of those words from my ex wife's mouth. 
It can be so hard to regulate this.  I try to remember that its her illness, which has its draw backs because I feel bad about "abandoning" her because of an illness. 

Remember that even with someone that wants to get help and puts the work in, it can take years if not decades to get to a good place.  Furthermore, I realized that my ex wife's version of getting help is very much different than what I view it as.  Couple that with all the lies, including pretending to be "cured".  Moving on is the best course of action for yourself.  In war you can only carry the wounded for so long before you yourself become wounded. 

[PeteWitsend]

I've seen a lot about how we fall into relationships with pwBPD due to a lack of self esteem/trauma in our own history. For me, it seems more like a narcissistic/codependent thing. I didn't stay because I don't value myself. Rather, I felt like I had it so much "together" that if anyone could help her, it would be me. Kind of like the love can fix it fallacy in that 10 fallacies (or similar name, I forget the exact name) article on here.

Can anyone relate? If so, how did you heal from this and detach?

I like myself and know I deserve a healthy relationship, but I also can't help but feeling that if anyone can help her, it's me, due to our shared history, confidence, calm demeanor, persistence, stability, money, resources, etc.

I can relate to this.  When I met BPDxw, she was a recent grad school graduate, struggling to land a job, and extending her student visa (she was from another country) by taking community college classes and borrowing money from friends to fund her night life.

 I had some tough times early in my career, and BPDxw is in the same profession as I am, only 6 years younger.  

Seeing her make mistakes and struggle to start her career - which I related to, even though our circumstances were very different - blinded me to the fact that she was making bad choices and avoiding responsibility for them.

And she was attractive; I hadn't dated anyone who was that attractive before... I felt like I had to "up my game" and keep her happy, which fed right into an unhealthy dynamic.  so that was a failing on my part.

I also thought I could help her, and we'd grow stronger together, but was consistently disappointed how selfish her decisions were, and how she would ignore my contributions to her achievements and - what really threw me for a loop - she seemed to resent me for helping her, even when she'd ask for (or demand) help.  

On some level, I like to think I would've walked away sooner, but I got her pregnant shortly after proposing to her, and felt duty bound to be a good partner and father.  That lead to me naively taking a lot more abuse and grief from her than I've ever tolerated in a relationship before.  

I look at my circumstances and mentality and the time, and feel like it was just an unfortunate situation; had a few things been different, I would've ran far away from her at the first red flag or two.

[Ellala]

One theme I'm seeing a lot here is trust actions not words. True for everyone but especially for a pwBPD.

yes!

[WhatToDo47]

Wow, reading this is like hearing most of those words from my ex wife's mouth. 
It can be so hard to regulate this.  I try to remember that its her illness, which has its draw backs because I feel bad about "abandoning" her because of an illness. 

Remember that even with someone that wants to get help and puts the work in, it can take years if not decades to get to a good place.  Furthermore, I realized that my ex wife's version of getting help is very much different than what I view it as.  Couple that with all the lies, including pretending to be "cured".  Moving on is the best course of action for yourself.  In war you can only carry the wounded for so long before you yourself become wounded. 

Thank you and that is a good and sobering reminder. Really appreciate it!

[WhatToDo47]

I can relate to this.  When I met BPDxw, she was a recent grad school graduate, struggling to land a job, and extending her student visa (she was from another country) by taking community college classes and borrowing money from friends to fund her night life.

 I had some tough times early in my career, and BPDxw is in the same profession as I am, only 6 years younger.  

Seeing her make mistakes and struggle to start her career - which I related to, even though our circumstances were very different - blinded me to the fact that she was making bad choices and avoiding responsibility for them.

And she was attractive; I hadn't dated anyone who was that attractive before... I felt like I had to "up my game" and keep her happy, which fed right into an unhealthy dynamic.  so that was a failing on my part.

I also thought I could help her, and we'd grow stronger together, but was consistently disappointed how selfish her decisions were, and how she would ignore my contributions to her achievements and - what really threw me for a loop - she seemed to resent me for helping her, even when she'd ask for (or demand) help.  

On some level, I like to think I would've walked away sooner, but I got her pregnant shortly after proposing to her, and felt duty bound to be a good partner and father.  That lead to me naively taking a lot more abuse and grief from her than I've ever tolerated in a relationship before.  

I look at my circumstances and mentality and the time, and feel like it was just an unfortunate situation; had a few things been different, I would've ran far away from her at the first red flag or two.

I experienced every single one of these things. Almost exactly my situation. Except thank God we didn't have any kids. How are you holding up these days? Thank you for saving me from a similar fate which I would be at risk for if I took her back.