Figuring out what I've learned

[Notwendy]

What is the pain from?

Is she healthy? She's only 25.

I ask because, my BPD mother, who has been very healthy thankfully- ( medically healthy) seems to have been in some sort of "pain" for most of the time for as long as I can remember.

There is a thread on the relationship board, and the discussion is that they "feel" the emotional pain as physical, they can't quite identify it as emotions and with the mind-body connections - the stress does connect to physical pain.

There is also a lot of secondary gain. I think more than for feelings.

And it reinforces victim position.

Yet, in a sense, it is real for them.

[livednlearned]

What is the pain from?

Everything.

More recently it is leg pain that has no known cause despite MRI and multiple specialists evaluating her.

Gastric stuff has been ongoing since I've known her. She shares bowel information with H regularly. I managed to put a stop to this when it was discussed in front of me. And they no longer discuss body stuff while I'm eating. I'll take a win where I can.

Pain is as you say. She feels it, it's real.

I see her absorbing H language to please him while maintaining the pain is caused by something real (e.g. overuse injury), and then something else (work), and then this other thing (not work, not telling what).

In other parts of my life, my parents are discussing their will and preparations for dying. uBPD brother will be executor of the will. This is all hypothetical because my parents will hopefully live a long life but I can see how my fixation on the visit in September is in part connected, at least emotionally. There is often a person involved who wrecks everything, for seemingly no reason, when it doesn't have to be that way.

I think SD25 and uBPD brother hit the same part of my nervous system.

[GaGrl]

One of the primary characteristics I remember of my uBPD/NPD step grandmother was her constant talk and complaining of health problems, crises, operations, and pains.

My father had little patience with it and eventually did the same as you, lnl -- no body talk at the table.

Those kind of texts, every day, would wear me down. Especially when you can imagine the words in her actual voice. Does she whine?

[livednlearned]

Does she whine?

I can't say she whines, not exactly. She uses any method necessary, whatever works. 

She is different depending on who is around.

With SD28, she tends to use more guilt and anger.
With H, she is more waif.

I see a combination.

H is a "walk it off" guy and likes to say this phrase to the universe and anyone within listening range -- I think it is his deepest wish that people who can, will.

H and SD25 have a dynamic where she talks the talk (pain x resistance = suffering) per H's advice, but she doesn't walk the talk (pain x resistance = gold).

So in practice this becomes "dad, look at me I walked 6 miles today" followed by "now I cannot walk and will have to amputate my leg."

[I Am Redeemed]

Those texts sound like cries for attention; I'm sure you've already picked up on that. Kinda reminds me of how S6 will tell me about the most miniscule of scratches he obtained, just so he can get a bandaid which magically fixed his "pain".

Is this pretty much her MO for relating to your H? It sounds like she's trying in some way to get the same kind of attention one would give to a 6 year old with a scratch that's in no way a cause for concern. I know S6 isn't in pain when he gets a tiny scratch, he just wants validation that it's there and the fun of getting a bandaid.

Sounds like she's doing much the same thing- give me attention for these things and let me know I'm important to you. Very childlike, except she's not a child, so it's kind of cringe.

[livednlearned]

Is this pretty much her MO for relating to your H?

Yes.

Eventually she wears family out. She goes through friends who become exhausted.

With H, he grows weary or goes on autopilot, repeating the same advice or resorts to emojis, SD25 feels invalidated, and then *punishes* him for several days, a reprieve he enjoys.

Then it starts up again.

His concern is that she will get more sophisticated in this attention-seeking and become medicalized (his word).

[Notwendy]

I can understand how this would emotionally wear you two out, and because it is similar behavior to what my BPD mother does, I would also feel overwhelmed being around her.

I understand your H's concern. My BPD mother has been doing this for decades, and seeks medical attention. If you can also imagine, this kind of behavior is also difficult for medical providers, as they look for a medical condition, but with the emotional dysfunction, whatever they do isn't successful. For the providers who recommend mental health, she goes along with it but it isn't successful either as she doesn't seek insight. The medical problem also externalizes the issue for her.

I feel badly for your H, because, she is his daughter, and like those of us who have a BPD mother, this is a significant connection. If someone is in a relationship with a pwBPD- they can divorce that person ( yes I do understand the difficulty in that as well) but you can't "divorce" a parent or a child. NC is a choice, but a tough one, a drastic one. And as irritating as it is to see these dynamics, I also recognize your H's attachment as her parent- she's difficult, but he still loves her.

I think you can be supportive to him in the sense of being empathetic to his situation. But like the other relationships here- this one is his to decide on. Just like my H can be empathetic to my situation-but it's my mother, not his. He can't step in and do it for me. I have to learn to manage the situation as best as I can. 

So for the short term- the weekend. I do understand the apprehension about a weekend with this kind of dynamic. There would only be two choices here: do not stay with her or- get some time away from her. You can't "fix" this in a weekend so time away seems like the best option- schedule some things just for you.

Long term- H will have to learn where his boundaries are with this. I don't know how much counseling he has had, or recovery work but I think it would be helpful to him to do this.

[pursuingJoy]

Their communication is legit cringy, lnl. I've witnessed similar conversations between H and his mom, and H and his ex wife. It's oversharing of intimate information with an implied expectation that H will comfort and caretake in a way that also feels intimate. The expectation is exposed in their anger when their need isn't met. It feels yucky. I don't manage it well, and they are unwilling to change the dynamic, so distance from her keeps me sane.

The key is how to manage when we are together.

It helps me to have something other than her behavior to focus on. I always structure visits to MIL - from moment to moment, there's a planned activity, a goal I can work towards. It also helps immensely when others, especially not family, are around to buffer. MIL lays it on thick if it's just me and H. Can you bring your friend, or anyone back to the house with you to visit?

[livednlearned]

If you can also imagine, this kind of behavior is also difficult for medical providers, as they look for a medical condition, but with the emotional dysfunction, whatever they do isn't successful.

Very true Notwendy. H is a medical provider so this is doubly challenging for him.

He believes she experiences genuine pain -- the pain is real. I believe this, too.

What is challenging for him is the medicalization of the pain. Getting a lot of tests, or taking meds, or doing something invasive are all things that he feels lead to poorer health outcomes so he walks a fine line with her. Validating and then steering towards healthy practices that are not invasive.

I'm taking a moment to be thankful that suicidal ideation is no longer how she copes, so it seems. Focusing on leg pain is better than the alternative and I'm grateful for that, for her and for the rest of the family.

A therapist I saw many years ago once said that we replace unhealthy coping mechanisms with healthy ones. Meaning, we will probably always have coping mechanisms when there is childhood trauma, the key is to replace destructive ones with healthier ones. I'm trying to find the silver lining here because there is one, even if it may not be perfect.

It's oversharing of intimate information with an implied expectation that H will comfort and caretake in a way that also feels intimate. The expectation is exposed in their anger when their need isn't met. It feels yucky. I don't manage it well, and they are unwilling to change the dynamic, so distance from her keeps me sane.

Do you feel that you suffer in hard to measure ways when you are not able to be authentic? I think that is fundamentally what I am grappling with here. What are the costs of tiptoeing? I don't mean drop all the skills and run ... it's more about when to say what is important to me and when do I hold it in?

I've never fully understood what people mean when they say stand in your truth. I intellectually understand this and I am down for it as a principle. But when I look at my life, I see how accommodating I am in general and lately I see the ripple effect of speaking up, even if the ripples are small. H and I are both kind people, perhaps to a fault. I am getting better at asserting boundaries and connecting my feelings with actions in the moment versus letting so much slide. I am better at staying in my lane and not being triangulated.

What I am not better at is focusing on what feels authentic and strengthening that muscle. It is less about preventing SD25 from doing something, it is more about what cost am I paying in general when I do not speak. It goes back to Notwendy's insights into resentment.

When I speak up authentically, it feels like I am affirming who I am, strengthening my own sense of self and confirming I am a person who feels this or thinks that.

That is not nothing for me, especially with a dysfunctional family all my own, with two aging parents and a uBPD brother that I am trying to navigate. It is death by a thousand paper cuts.

It helps me to have something other than her behavior to focus on. I always structure visits to MIL - from moment to moment, there's a planned activity, a goal I can work towards. It also helps immensely when others, especially not family, are around to buffer. MIL lays it on thick if it's just me and H. Can you bring your friend, or anyone back to the house with you to visit?

I think what this thread is helping me recognize is that I will manage the environment so that it works for me, like you suggest. That being in this family means we don't have to all like each other, but let's at least make it work, and by us I mean me. 

I just feel the need to give myself a pep talk that it's also ok to call out behavior that isn't ok --done as tactfully as I can manage -- and be prepared for the fall-out.

I think it was Harriet Lerner (Dance of Anger) who said we care for others at the expense of self, or we care for self at the expense of others, that it is a tricky balancing act between those two.

For this visit, and another one brewing (SD25 coming here), I am going to see what it's like to focus on self, not in a selfish way but in a way where I am not running or hiding or avoiding or giving away the farm to keep peace.

[GaGrl]

When was the last time you spoke your truth to SD25 in a way that left you feeling empowered? Was it a stronger statement than you usually use? What was different about it?

[livednlearned]

When was the last time you spoke your truth to SD25 in a way that left you feeling empowered? Was it a stronger statement than you usually use? What was different about it?

I have asserted boundaries and that feels empowering. Speaking truth feels like something different.

Speaking truth would be, "We don't stay with my parents because it creates unnecessary tension and stress. I feel the same way about staying with SD25."

Speaking truth would be, "Since we are staying in the house together, please know that I will speak up if I feel disrespected or manipulated or bothered. I ask that you do not interfere and let me work things out with SD25 directly."

Speaking truth would be, "SD25, I'm uncomfortable with the way you're touching your dad."

 

Asserting boundaries has helped me regain some power back and I know that SD25 feels it. What feels the same is me putting my well-being below everyone else's and spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to get through things without ruffling feathers.

 

[Notwendy]

One thing I learned was to present things with an "I" perspective. It's more about us owning our boundaries.

I assume this is to your H:

"I have chosen not to stay with my parents because it creates unnecessary tension and stress. I feel the same way about staying with SD25."


If not this time since plans are made, maybe for another one-


Also to your H: "Since we are staying in the house together, please know that I do not wish to be disrespected or manipulated or bothered. I ask that you do not interfere and let me work things out with SD25 directly."

Rather than speak up, you also may wish to just remove yourself from the situation and go to your room or run an errand. You can also speak up but sometimes it's better to just walk away.

Speaking truth would be, "SD25, I'm uncomfortable with the way you're touching your dad."

This isn't actually your boundary- it's your H's. As much as this seems creepy - he's the one who should be feeling creeped out. I hope she's acting more like a 4 year old clinging to her Dad than as a grown woman ( which she is) but he needs to have a boundary if it's inappropriate. I'd direct this to him. "I'm uncomfortable with the way SD 25 is touching you."

With your H- He may be less sensitive to her discussing her medical issues with him.  On the other hand, he isn't her therapist or health care provider and probably also feels overburdened by daily calls about this. To me, this is sounding like he has difficulties with boundaries with her- engaging in these calls, wanting her to stay with you both, allowing her to cling to him and that this bothers you as much as, ( and maybe more? ) than her behavior with you?

It may mean some kind of counseling session for the two of you where you can speak your truth to him. He may not feel able to change the dynamics with his D but possibly reduce some contact- such as weekly calls rather than daily, different places to stay when they visit, and other ways to have boundaries rather than confront her with the behaviors.

[pursuingJoy]

Speaking truth feels like something different.

Speaking truth would be, "We don't stay with my parents because it creates unnecessary tension and stress. I feel the same way about staying with SD25."

Speaking truth would be, "Since we are staying in the house together, please know that I will speak up if I feel disrespected or manipulated or bothered. I ask that you do not interfere and let me work things out with SD25 directly."

Speaking truth would be, "SD25, I'm uncomfortable with the way you're touching your dad."

As someone who spends a lot of time controlling what and how I say everything, obsessing about and asserting my own boundaries, what's effective, and how they're going to make the people around me feel, I really appreciate the distinction you're making about speaking truth. It would be so liberating just to say, in the moment, 'I'm uncomfortable.'

I'm usually in shock so I'm late to the party. At SD29's engagement party, my MIL randomly mentioned that H and his ex wife were late to their wedding reception because they couldn't 'wait.' I kick myself now for saying nothing. I wish I'd looked at her and just said, "That makes me so uncomfortable."

Granted, and because I overthink everything, I suspect making me uncomfortable was the whole point. I imagine your SD has the same goal with you and affection towards her dad. Knowing we're uneasy builds their confidence in their attachment. Maybe an unimpressed, "What an odd thing to share in this setting, in front of H and his daughter, no less," would be more effective with MIL. But you know what? Life is messy. Surely there is a time and place to just say what I feel, because I need to.

In your case I might also find satisfaction in, "My goodness with that level of affection in public, people would think you were married! How awkward would that be?"

[livednlearned]

Rather than speak up, you also may wish to just remove yourself from the situation and go to your room or run an errand. You can also speak up but sometimes it's better to just walk away.

More often than not, I walk away.

I am second-guessing the walking away.

I don't want to walk away anymore.

I want to stay and be authentic. By authentic, I don't mean say whatever I want. I mean say it skillfully because something happening is my reality.

Disordered people are in my reality.

That has to mean something, my reality. Especially if I have compromised to do something I don't want to do (share a house).

The last couple of days I was thinking about how tense my jaw muscles are, how I have this back spasm that flares up when I see my family. I kept thinking, "I'm wound up about SD25 because of my family" a thought I have often about everything in my life. As though having an explanation for why I am more bothered by behaviors means that those behaviors are not the problem. I become the problem.

I feel like I have gotten something wrong and maybe I'm not understanding something correctly. "We can only change ourselves" has made me put 100 percent effort into what I can control and wow, am I ever doing a lot of controlling.

I might be getting to the end of my rope. If I am bothered by SD25 behaviors because I have a uBPD brother and married then divorced a n/BPDx, that minimizes how I feel. I talk about this cup that is empty or full, and how full it is changes how I deal with SD25. But if I'm to be honest with myself, having a uBPD brother and golden child father and adult child mother and n/BPDx husband means it takes a lot to fill that cup. On a good day with SD25, I'm lucky to have it half full. Having a loving marriage with H fills a lot of that cup and I'm healthy and like my work and see good things happening for S20, who has been in and out of hospitals for the last 4 years.

Walking away does drain that cup. Maybe not in that moment but in the big picture of my life and recovery and well-being, it's just saying that my voice doesn't matter.

I don't know if this is making any sense. I feel like I could cry sometimes thinking about how much I shift to the right and left and never stand my ground over things that matter. It's like I have a phantom limb that can't be real because I'm reluctant to use it. I want to use it. I might even be getting to a point where I need to use it.

As someone who spends a lot of time controlling what and how I say everything, obsessing about and asserting my own boundaries, what's effective, and how they're going to make the people around me feel, I really appreciate the distinction you're making about speaking truth. It would be so liberating just to say, in the moment, 'I'm uncomfortable.'

You are my board twin  so I am truly grateful to hear you say this.

Granted, and because I overthink everything, I suspect making me uncomfortable was the whole point.

Yes.

In your case I might also find satisfaction in, "My goodness with that level of affection in public, people would think you were married! How awkward would that be?"

This is the crux of it for me. I am gracious to a fault if there is such a thing. Putting people at ease, laughing things off, being tactful, being the *bigger* person. Learning skills so I can manage difficult people. I'm not mad about that. I'm feeling the cost of it though.

More and more I am thinking of these get togethers as an opportunity to simply experience my own reality. For me. Even if I do this half way, chances are it will probably be well within the realm of polite even if the reactions are outsized.

I am so very very very tired of putting others first at the expense of myself.

[kells76]

That makes sense -- that as much as "well my FOO had PD issues" can be an explanation, it can also minimize the fact that there is a disordered person in your life doing disordered things in front of you right now, independently of what happened in your family and in your past.

What would you want to say in that moment of staying and being authentic, if you knew you that at the end of the day H would have your back (or at least not "interfere")?

For me that would be the biggest thing -- whether my H & I could have some pre-understanding that I was gonna do what I was gonna do, and he wouldn't "try to make it different" or "try to get me to apologize" or "try to help me see how I was in the wrong" or whatever.

If I were in your shoes, I would want to know that I could look at SD25 being all gross, tell her something really frank like "SD25, that's gross and inappropriate to touch your father that way", and then at the end of the day H wouldn't be reactive/activated about it. I mean, it's not like I'd want him to be like "Rah rah, you go girl, you tell her", but if I could "know" that at most he'd be like "huh, well that sure was something" and then go about his business managing his own relationships and not mine... that would make a big difference in my sense of "can I be authentic and frank". I really wouldn't want to deal with not only SD25's dysfunction, but H's reaction (judgment? blame? triangle? responsibility shifting? guilt trip? wound up?) to my choice.

But then that also raises the question of "can I be authentic and frank on my own, regardless of whether or not my spouse is supportive?"

[livednlearned]

"can I be authentic and frank on my own, regardless of whether or not my spouse is supportive?"

That's the big question  

[livednlearned]

What would you want to say in that moment of staying and being authentic, if you knew you that at the end of the day H would have your back (or at least not "interfere")?

Let's say the trip ends up with H, me, and SD25 staying in the house for 72 hours and SD25 announces she will be staying longer.

An authentic response is, "No. I need to be consulted and I wasn't. Frankly, I feel disrespected."

There are dozens of smaller instances that feel like games. The behaviors are almost normal but the intent feels very calculated to create a one-up for SD25 and a one-down for me.

[beatricex]

hi livedandlearned,
I have been reading your thread and have almost responded several times.
I hear you when you say: I am so very very very tired of putting others first at the expense of myself.

I too have a step daughter very similar to yours.  I did finally "tap out" though.  I just told my husband I couldn't keep doing it, it was making me too uncomfortable.

We are actually no contact with her for almost 2 years now (her choice, she gave her Dad an ultimatum that he must divorce me or he'd never see her or her kids again).

Marriage counseling helped...so did me speaking my truth as you say.  But not to the BPD that just doesn't work, we know they need validation, kid gloves.

I mean, to my H.

 

b

[Notwendy]

Marriage counseling helped...so did me speaking my truth as you say.  But not to the BPD that just doesn't work,

I agree with this. My reasons for walking away, rather than to speak my truth, isn't because I am keeping the peace. It's because in my own experience, saying something  doesn't work.

It's like a boomerang with my mother, as if she's got some kind of force field around her that saying something that she may take as even hint that her behavior isn't acceptable gets projected back at me. She goes into victim mode.

When we do "speak our truth" to someone - it's with the assumption that they can hear it, that they are able to have some sort of relationship with us, that they can navigate a relationship. For me, I have decided ( after decades of trying to connect somehow to my mother that her behavior is hurtful at times- and it doesn't work) that this kind of relationship is not possible.

I recall once I was visiting family ( and that was when I still stayed with my parents) that my mother snapped at me and I could tell she was beginning to get into a rage. I didn't say a thing. I picked up my suitcase and walked out the door, and left. A family member said she was puzzled " what is wrong with NW?"

But she eventually got the message without my saying anything- she starts this, I leave the conversation.

I think honestly, your boundary would have to be don't stay in the same place with your SD. Maybe not this time, but after this.

The person you can speak your truth to is your H. He's invested in his relationship with you. It may take a counseling session. A counselor as a third party is helpful as they are objective and can lead the discussion forward.

[livednlearned]

Marriage counseling helped...so did me speaking my truth as you say.  But not to the BPD that just doesn't work, we know they need validation, kid gloves.

I guess it depends on what the point is of speaking truth. For me, it is putting myself back in the equation after decades of having so many people take for granted I can be easily removed.

It is the curse of the conflict avoidant.

I don't mean saying willy-nilly how I feel because I see the benefits of having a filter. It is more about being true in moments where it genuinely matters to me that I say something.

If no one else is going to do it, I have to be the one putting myself back into the equation. There is no one else to blame.

When we do "speak our truth" to someone - it's with the assumption that they can hear it, that they are able to have some sort of relationship with us, that they can navigate a relationship.

For me, the assumption is more about: I can hear it, I can feel it.

I am able to speak truth with H. Not always in the moment, and sometimes it is messy and repairs are needed. He may disagree with this assessment, but I think I have enabled him to treat me as inconsequential.

Four years ago I was the last to learn that the three kids and H's ex in-laws were coming for Christmas. Yes, ex. The parents of H's uBPD ex wife. I  would find out from H that SD25 and her BF were staying the weekend. I am not included in the discussions about summer visits and I will be the last to know if SD25 chooses to extend her stay.

Why?

Somehow I am considered not relevant. And whose fault is that? I speak honestly to H and he hears me yet these things keep happening and the one thing in common is that I don't make anyone uncomfortable.

I should have said to H's ex mother-in-law, "If you'd like to come for the holidays, check in with me."

I should have said to SD25: "If you are coming to visit BF (living in another state) in my home, clear it with me."

I should have said to BF: "If you come visit SD25, arrange to arrive after she gets here."

I should have said to H when he tacked on SD25 to any event, "I feel disrespected."

When I think back to what I have tolerated in my life, including physical abuse into my mid 20s from uBPD brother and enabling parents, and a vicious marriage and divorce with uBPDx, it guts me. I have come such a long way and I am in a much healthier place. But there is this last piece and it feels so essential to my healing, to be able to say something reasonable about how I feel when it's appropriate.

[Notwendy]

I can relate and I think there's an explanation for this.

We were raised to avoid conflict and not be the squeaky wheel. But the squeaky wheel gets the attention and when someone is a people pleaser who also can't say no, then the needs of the most compliant one are neglected to avoid conflict with the most troublesome one.

Dad would expect me to comply as BPD mother  would pitch a fit if she didn't get her way. We had to overcompensate in the family balance of things- be lowest priority so to avoid conflict with the difficult one.

You mentioned your H is codependent- he's a people pleaser and so wants to have his cake and eat it too- please his SD and have you go along with it..

Similar dynamics as pursuing joy, her H and BPDMIL.

I also was putting myself last priority with my H. I blame myself for that. All I knew growing up was that I had to be a doormat to be loved and when we do that, people respond accordingly. My feelings and needs were ignored by my parents and so, I didn't really know how to relate differently.

The key though - was my own feelings of resentment. I think they are there for you too. Resentment was a sign that something has to change. For me, it took counseling and 12 step meetings- with the support of a sponsor to make changes.  Now, I think our tendencies are habitual for us, we have to stay aware of them and resist them.

I'd be furious if all these people were invited to my house without discussing it with me. Naturally, we tolerate some family members for the sake of unity but this needs to be mutually agreed on. I'd feel disrespected as well ( I'd be thinking about booking a hotel for me and let H have Christmas with his guests).

If SD comes with her BF- they can get a hotel. Your H can pay for her to stay in a hotel if he wants to.

I think some discussion about how to navigate this together, maybe with a counselor, so you can have your boundaries could help.

[livednlearned]

I might be done with counseling, with preparations and discussions, tbh.

At least I feel that way typing out my feelings here.

It's not really about other people. This is a me thing.

After 7 years estrangement with my golden child dad, nothing -- and I mean nothing -- was said about the estrangement. H and I went to my parents' condo and we walked to dinner. My dad walked with H. I walked with my mom. Like nothing happened. H said it was surreal. It took him a couple of days to process.

Pre-vaccine Covid, I managed to get into Canada and stayed in quarantine for 14 days with my dad while my mom was in the hospital. We did not discuss the estrangement. I'm inside the condo for 14 days and there is nowhere for my dad to go except hospital and supermarket and yet we talk about nothing.

Day 13 I broached the subject and we grit our teeth through to some kind of detente. It shocked him that I could go quiet for so long. I felt he was seething and also aware if he crosses the new line I have for myself, this detente will end and we will be back to estrangement. Finally, after 50 years of being the garbage bin for this family, he recognizes I have something that looks like a backbone.

uBPD brother didn't graduate from high school (family lie says he did), golden child dad pays for his apartment to get him out of the house, gets him his first job, helps him build up a side job, gives him $250K down payment on a house, tolerates rages and furies that go on for decades .. and then he is made executor of the will and health care POA. Which I learned of while driving my dad to cataract surgery, a 4 hour drive from my home with a ferry and border crossing because uBPD brother, who lives 20 min from my parents, is too squeamish to drive my dad. Perfect guy to be HC POA.

Whereas I get my phd with no help from family, including a father who encouraged me to drop out of uni after getting sick for six weeks and falling behind in classes, no help with housing when I'm going through my divorce, no help with legal fees (bad investment).

Weeks and months after my divorce from n/BPDx husband, a lawyer whose behaviors was so egregrious the judge filed a gatekeeping order, my dad finds out my mother has offered to help pay for my therapy and it makes him mad she would offer money without talking to him.  His solution is to take money out of my son's education trust and have my mom pay back the loan from her monthly government pension, solving the problem by hurting as many people as possible.

As I come back into his life, I see so clearly how there was initially more respect (a post-estrangement type), followed by small tests that now have me back where I was, the family garbage can.

Why? Because I do not say reasonable things at appropriate times.

My dad's brother died and there is a memorial this summer that H and I changed vacation plans so we could attend. Today, I backed out. I am nobody at these family gatherings and it takes days to process the specific ways my family avoids meaningful connection. Days that would impact one of the first genuine family-free vacations H and I have planned in our 10 years together.

I need this for myself.

My parents will age and uBPD brother will make decisions about their health. It will be hard to bear witness to the chaos that will come to his kids and wife, and to my parents and anyone involved in their care. I will have no say.

I think I am approaching next level radical acceptance with people who act like @ssh0les.

In spite of the conflict it may generate, saying what I feel earns my respect for me.

After all these years, I am finally genuinely truly angry how I have been treated and how I let others treat me.


 

[Turkish]

livednlearned,

You should be extremely proud of what you've accomplished.

It's sad, to say the least, that your dad put your low-functioning brother in charge of him.  You've done enough. Take care of yourself.

Notwendy seems to have a better grasp on Family Systems, but I'd say that you're not in the fold because you're more differentiated as an individual as opposed to an accessory to Family stability, such as it is. Seen as a threat, you as a mirror make them uncomfortable.

[Notwendy]

Turkish- I didn't always have these boundaries but I agree that not being my mother's favorite child led to me feeling more separate from her. Still, we were expected to appease her.

My default is to appease, and so it takes some effort to act differently.

For livednlearned I agree with Turkish- you have gone through a lot and have accomplished a lot. While it's hurtful that your father put his trust in your brother, like Turkish said- it's about the usefulness to the family dynamics- not who is the most trustworthy or competent. It's not personal to you. You may also have been seen as the most differentiated to them.

In 12 steps they talk about "hitting bottom" and I understand your feeling of being fed up with the dynamics and that it is time to stand up for yourself and your feelings.

[wendydarling]

Along with others I walk with you, as I walk alongside my DD.  

WDx

[pursuingJoy]

After all these years, I am finally genuinely truly angry how I have been treated and how I let others treat me.

But there is this last piece and it feels so essential to my healing, to be able to say something reasonable about how I feel when it's appropriate.

And consider the cost if you don't speak up.

I appreciate you sharing because it helps me put words to many of my own feelings. You'll find an effective, filtered way of honoring these values...it sounds like you always have in small ways, with some people, but the color needs to intensify now. 

[Notwendy]

wendydarling- dealing with BPD in any close relationship is a challenge, and with a child, it has to be heartbreaking. Walking the line between holding them responsible ( knowing that they may not make the best decisions) and protecting them to the point of enabling has to be very hard. Family bonds are the most special ones- and it astounds me how someone with BPD can strain them.

[beatricex]

I am approaching next level radical acceptance with people who act like @ssh0les.

woo hoo!  love it, that is so awesome 

[khibomsis]

Totally  agree with the notion that the golden child never gets to be a person, only an appendage. We found that the children and grandchildren who had most contact with my uNBPD mom turned out to be BPD themselves. Those of us who got away (me scape goat and 'spare wheel' sibling) got to have lives and seek mental health. Yes we suffered for it financially in the short term but in the long term we are doing much better. Because we learned to take care of ourselves young and that sustains our financial health now.

 I actually feel sorry for golden child brother, now that mom and dad are gone he is growing ever more mentally unstable. Not least because though we (his siblings) try to be supportive there is no way we are going to enable. Old family system is broken into pieces. Wonderful to break the cycle! The next generation turning out a little better as we strive to let everyone feel safe and valued.

LnL I follow your posts and love your wisdom and insight. Yes, for sure take your time now and live authentically. Wishing you all the best.
 

[Notwendy]

The pattern is similar in my family too. The golden child has been more enmeshed and was financially dependent longer. Ironically, BPD mother is more emotionally and verbally abusive to the GC, who still feels obligated to tolerate this.

My parents have been more supportive of the GC financially- paid more for college, automobile, etc, but if the other side of this is enmeshment, it's not a good thing.

Lnl, it's frustrating that your parents made your brother HC POA. This has nothing to do with you, but with them. It will be frustrating to see this, but keep in mind- it was their choice and so you are not responsible for this. Your father clearly has some kind of issue- but it's not about you.

You don't have to accept this kind of behavior and I am glad you are not!