Giving in to ex-H too easily regarding child's school?

[Mommeredith81]

Hi all. Here's my situation in a nutshell. (BTW, I was on these boards years ago, but forgot my login so I started anew - I'm a mom of elementary-age kids; my ex-H has BPD and can become erratic although he's been pretty ok the last few months).

So my daughter fell in love with a local private school a year ago. It specializes in some subjects she truly loves. I wasn't sure exH would go for it  but I told him a little about it as she started applying, and he seemed happy about it. And it stayed that way for months. Brought it up with coparenting counselor and he was still ok with it, and he helped in the application process.

I told my daughter she can try it for a year if they give us enough money. It's close to us and similar hours to her current school.

Anyway, she did a trial day and loves the kids, building, and subjects.

We got a generous financial aid package. Still, ex lost job recently. Suddenly he's saying no, he doesn't think she should go, he can barely afford his expenses.

Now, I know a privvy school sounds extravagant, and she's in a pretty good public school now. But I know for her, she was excited about this place. Yet, I don't think I could get him to say yes. I could offer to pay the remaining tuition (I could do it) but I know from past experience, there's no use pushing him.  I could also (and probably will) call our PC for advice. But I'm not going to fight this in court.

I guess I feel nervous pushing for this because it *is* a big change. It's not like a trip or camp. It's for at least a year.

I think it's a generous award and not sure why he got worried about it, but I can see his side, as I'd be a bit nervous about money too. But I can find money.

I told my daughter that we probably can't afford it right now. I have a week to give them an answer. She was crying and she said I ruined her life. (Exaggeration, sure, but I also feel like maybe I should have gotten ex to commit with the pc, not taken it for granted based on his going along with it. So it is partially on me. And I am *not* going to tell her the truth about ex. She's a pre teen)

I asked him if he wants to discuss pros and cons, etc. or discuss with PC. He said nope, it's not feasible.

I have bounced this off a few friends. One says I should talk to the PC, then make a decision. Another said I'm not making the right choice for my daughter because I'm intimidated. Yes, I am...because I don't want him to resent our daughter, or be anxious for the next year. I've dealt with him when anxious and triggered and it makes life very unpleasant. For the last year, he's been ok, and I'm worried about messing that up.

One thing he's right about is, paying the remainder of tuition would be a bit of a struggle, but if it's just for a year (to try it out) I think it'd be fine.

You folks understand. What would you do? Am I being a terrible mother who's just giving in? I don't want my kid to look back 10 years from now and remember that I denied her this. And she's not in a terrible school. But this is indeed a chance for her to try a new, engaging learning environment.

I feel like this isn't a life or death thing so I wouldn't go to court. Before I say no, I will probably email him one more time to see if he's sure, and what his concerns are. But I am leaning toward no if that's how he feels. It'd be too big a fight. All thoughts and ideas welcome.

PS I Have fought him on some things before. I guess I don't feel as confident on this one, like I'm asking too much.

[CoherentMoose]

I am a HUGE fan of private schools.  One of my few regrets was not biting the bullet and challenging my children more in HS.  My brother put all four of his children through private Catholic prep academy's and all four of his children earned their Bachelors in only three years.  All four earned Master's degrees their fourth year in college.  It's a big investment I know.  Just my two cents worth.
CoMo

[GaGrl]

I would push for the new school. Your child is enthusiastic.

Who has final decision-making on  education -- must it be joint, or can you move forward?

[ForeverDad]

When I arrived at court on Trial Day — the entire day was reserved with our magistrate — I was greeted with the news that my ex was ready to settle, she couldn't keep kicking the can (her favorable temp order) down the road any more.

We already knew what the Custody Evaluator had initially recommended in his report to the court... Shared Parenting with equal custody and equal parenting time.  I set my red line at just one item or else we would start the trial... my single additional term was that I would be the "residential parent" responsible for school matters.

Of course she had expected that she would be in charge of school and "her" child's residency as often happens.  However, I knew that she was likely to move a few times (and she did) and I didn't relish the thought of following her around to different schools.  Also, I knew that if she were the residential parent, the school would default to speaking with her, with me on the proverbial outside looking in.

It was a bitter pill for her to swallow, she begged and cried.  Both lawyers insisted my stance was intangible and didn't mean anything.  But I proved them wrong.  When the final decree was issued there were only 3 months left of the school year and I got her school to agree to "open enrollment" so he could finish kindergarten there.  Well, she made scenes at school and in a few weeks her school notified me I had one day to register him in my school.  If she was the parent handling school as before, they couldn't have done anything and would have suffered with her interference.  But with about 5 weeks left of the school year, they dumped her like a hot potato.

[Mommeredith81]

Thank you all for your insight.
I can enroll her and would likely win a legal fight, but that's not the way to go in my case, I think.
I'm not sure I have the stomach to make this change and have him use it against me for a year or more: "You enrolled her in a new school against my wishes."
He takes the kids every other weekend so we need to be close to on the same page.

[Mommeredith81]

Anyway, would love more thoughts if anyone has them.

[GaGrl]

What is best for the child?

[kells76]

Does he have any objection(s) besides financial?

For example, would the private school be a longer drive for him to pick up kids for his time, even if it's not a big change for your house?

Would the school require "parent volunteer hours" that he may not wish to or be able to do?

Is it a religious school and does he object to that?

And here's a big one... yes, you personally can cover the gap in $ for one child for one year... I think you mentioned you have two kids? Will your second kid also want to go here in the future? Would their dad be required (or would you be asking him) to cover more tuition down the road, even if it's not now?

This gets touchy because I would say it's a fair concern even though he's disordered. What if your D loves the school after the one year trial, and next year's financial aid package is a little less? This puts both of you parents in a position where it'd be too easy for blame to come up, and I know you don't want that impacting your kids.

I ask all this because we are in a similar situation except it's my DH's kids' mom who has disordered traits and has decision-making for schools. It makes a big difference for the decision-making parent to make a genuine effort to understand and compromise with the non-decision making parent in these big areas. And, if you can show in a documented way (emails etc) that you are treating your kids' dad respectfully and making some compromises, then if it does progress to a legal fight, you'll have a clean conscience because you'll know you did everything you could to have both of you on board for the kids.

So, drilling down to details, here are some areas where I'd propose compromises and offer really detailed longer term plans:

-Offer to cover a little more of transportation to/from school for his parenting time. No, you don't have to offer to cover all transportation, but the different school location may impact his ability to pick up/drop off, who knows. I would say look at what you can realistically "do extra" and offer that. He actually may not take you up on that, and may want to keep pick up/drop off as time with the kids, but it's an olive branch that says "yes, changing schools might change logistics for you, and I recognize that". I would see offering that as a win-win. Also, if you have family/friends in town, you could see if they want to cover transport for one day a week or every other week, if you can't, and if that helps the kids on their dad's time. Again, he may decline, but it's the offer that shows you recognize that changing schools impacts parents as well as kids.

-Sketch out a proposal for which parent is responsible for which $ even after the "one year trial". Also, be really ready to look at yourself and what you can actually do, and consider if you could actually go through with pulling the plug after one year. Yes, that's the compromise with your D, but one year in a new school for a preteen, and she'd be making a LOT of connections, and it'd be even harder to pull her out then than now. So, is it truly, truly a "one year trial'? I would suggest outlining a plan for "if" it continues past one year. Will you ever be asking him to contribute any $? I think it's fair to look at what you individually can do no matter what he does/doesn't contribute. I would hate for your family to get in the position of: D LOVES the school after one year and wants to continue. You did technically say it was a trial, but now she is really invested. You had the $ to cover 1 year, true, but now she wants to finish school there, and the aid $ went down a little. So, you turn to your kids' dad, who says "I never said I could help with more $ than child support". This creates a huge amount of potential for blame, conflict, and tension. You'd like to team up with him for the kids' sake, but he feels manipulated (or whatever), but if he says No he's the bad guy, but if you can't help D go back to school YOU'RE the bad guy.

I would really recommend coming up with a budget proposal for "if" she continues, so that you can show your kids' dad "OK, I've thought this through, and if she AND her sibling both want to go, here is about how much the school would cover every year, and here is how much I am contributing. The kids will need to write scholarship essays for years 3 & 4 to cover the difference if they are really invested. Your contribution under this plan is $0 per year; if you want to be part of making this thing happen for them which they love, let me know. Yearly application fees are $50 per kid per year, so let me know by July 1st each year if you want to cover that for them".

...

I think clarity, openness, genuine compromise offers, and a concrete outline of "who would pay for what" will be the way to go as you navigate making this happen. Nutshell version is: if it were me, I'd plan out how it'd look if D did ALL her schooling there, I'd plan for me covering ALL $ and NO contribution from him, I'd offer areas where he could "be the hero" for the kids if he wants (i.e. offer areas where even though you could cover it, he could too and you both would say "Dad covered your sports fee so yay, we both support you doing the sport"), and I'd offer some transportation compromises. I'd maybe do one more "fishing" email to confirm he has no issue with any religious or volunteer obligation with the school, and I'd do a final BIFF "decide and inform" email after all that.

Hope that helps...

kells76

[Mommeredith81]

Thank you, Kells. I'm glad you truly understand the situation I'm in, and the finer points. The more I tell him sometimes, the more disordered he gets, but you are right that even though he's disordered, these can be valid concerns. And I am careful about giving desperate compromises (like saying it's only one year, which you make a good point about - that kicks the can down the road and could cause conflict next year -- thank you for pointing that out. There is a difference between good compromises and compromises that cause problems later).

And definitely I don't want him feeling manipulated about this, as he has felt that way about other things. If it's a short term thing I can pull it off, but this is school and I also feel like he may resent our daughter.

Your idea is worthwhile, I may tell him more about my thoughts (which I should have done earlier) and ask if he has geniune concerns besides money. My guess is that he's going to mention some of your issues. She needs zero transportation (it's next to her other school and we'd walk there) so that's not a concern. There would be more homework probably, but if she's willing to do it, that's ok.

I am set to have to say no, but daughter is going to be pretty angry at me and sad for a while, especially since we pass this school, and that hurts too. We can apply again next year but I'm not sure if we'd look flaky if we do that?

Anyway, I have to decide by Monday so any other thoughts would be appreciated. I'm feeling like a bad mom for even letting her think she could go, and for not getting a clear answer from him in our PC meeting in Feb.

[kells76]

I may tell him more about my thoughts (which I should have done earlier) and ask if he has geniune concerns besides money. My guess is that he's going to mention some of your issues. She needs zero transportation (it's next to her other school and we'd walk there) so that's not a concern. There would be more homework probably, but if she's willing to do it, that's ok.

Makes sense to try to get these issues in writing before the deadline. I wonder if you could phrase it something like:

"We've mostly focused on the financial side; I'd like to hear if you have any concerns about the volunteer hours or the religious instruction at the school. Let me know by 6pm this Sunday; if I don't hear back, I'll assume we're on the same page about volunteering and Mass, and that we can move forward with enrollment and finances according to the outline we already looked at (attached) where I cover 100% of tuition. Stay healthy; Mommeredith81"

Notice using "we" a few times -- this gives it a feel of "equal footing" versus "me telling you how it's gonna go". There's also a "deadline" where even if he doesn't respond... no response is a response that frees you to move forward. You don't have to beg him for an answer. You keep it short and end with a "pleasant and professional" closing.

I would lean away from trying to "explain" anything. Disordered people often "double down" on their emotional resistance when they sense they're being "explained to" or something is being "justified" to them. Another way of looking at it is: he's an adult. He doesn't need preemptive explanations of "why D would really love it here" or "why I think this is better than the other school". Keep it to brief statements that are forward-focused. If he wants clarification he can ask. OK, yes, this is treating him like he's not disordered, but there's a sense in which that can work -- don't overfunction for him by explaining things that he is capable of asking about himself. The feeling of the process of explanation can set off pwBPD -- like we talk about here, avoid JADE-ing, as that can escalate conflicts -- so keep the process brief and simple, and don't let a feeling of "if I could just explain the content more, then things would go better" push you towards JADE.

I am set to have to say no... We can apply again next year but I'm not sure if we'd look flaky if we do that?

I might be missing something... so you would have to say No this year, but could say Yes next year? I think I missed if you are "tiebreaker" or "decision maker" on school? Is the "having to say No this year" because you legally cannot make the final decision, or because there might be conflict if you said Yes? Is the "no this year/yes next year" in anticipation of something happening/getting clarified between this application deadline and the next one? Sorry if I am a little foggy...

I think that's the biggest logistical question from me... is the hurdle that you legally cannot send her there if he doesn't agree (i.e. joint custody)? Or that you DO have tiebreaker on education, but there would be conflict if you did that?

[Mommeredith81]

We've never really established tiebreaker status, probably mostly because we talk things through with our PC, and my kids have been in the same school a while.

Legally we'd probably both have to agree, and yes, I'm worried about his reactions if I do something this big without his agreement.

The letter you suggested works well, but this is a big thing (and September is a long while away) so I'd rather try to get him on the same page. I agree that fewer words are better.

The difference with applying next year would be, I think I could talk to him with our PC and get him to agree that if X and Y are met, we can apply again. Like, if we reapply in November and he feels more comfortable with his and my financial status. More importantly, my kid would start middle school that year so she'd be switching schools anyway, so I somehow think that provides me with more license to choose.

[Mommeredith81]

I have been dropping hints to daughter that she may not go, and she's upset with me. She catastrophizes things anyway, but now says I ruined her life. I don't want her complaining to her dad and getting on his bad side. It is partly my fault for showing her this shiny school she now can't attend. I think she will be ok staying at her current school, but I do wish I'd figured this all out earlier or not even showed her the possibility of this other school.

Anyway, a friend said I let him intimidate me too much, but I'm also aware that I've been lucky in the last few years that my kids are healthy and safe and he hasn't bothered with us much. I also know my daughter's public school is safe if he ever became disordered and caused a problem.

Now I just feel bad that my daughter is sad about not going to this place. But I just have to kind of take that.

[kells76]

I really feel where you're coming from; it's so hard trying to get "same page" agreement from a disordered person on something that the kids would like. And inevitably those times come where you feel like you've deeply let down your child. It's painful for you and for your kiddo.

I wonder how it would go for you find some areas of this whole thing where you and your D are having a similar experience, and to share that with her -- to jumpstart a conversation that contextualizes this in a bigger picture: "You were feeling really excited about this possibility; I was, too. We both wanted to make it happen as fast as we could, didn't we. I wish we hadn't run into the reality that we needed more time to do the process, that it was a little more complicated than we thought. I wonder if you're still feeling disappointed about how it went?"

Maybe in the background you can still do some legwork on what it would take to enroll her for middle school -- like you said, it'd be a natural transition point, and it gives you more breathing room to really see if you and your D's dad can work together on this; or, at least, if you can legally move ahead without obstruction. It's tricky, though, deciding whether to share with D that even though this year didn't work out, you're still willing to give it one more shot for next year -- plus side could be that it's honest, you are willing to try for next year because realistically that's the time frame you need to work out logistics. The minus side though would be doing this whole process again, of her getting excited and hopeful when there's no guarantee that it'll happen. So I'm 50/50 on that idea (of sharing with her that you'll give it one more go).

This is hard stuff, and especially with a separated family structure, having disappointed kids isn't "just" sad/frustrating, there's this whole other level of drama that gets pulled in.

Can I ask, do you and/or the kids do any counseling? On the one hand, this situation is "broadly normal" -- it happens all the time that a parent thinks something will work, tells the kid Yes, then there's new info, and you have to tell the kid No. So there's nothing "abnormal" about it that inherently merits counseling. That being said, again, you're in this separated family structure with a likely disordered other parent. Extra support and a neutral third party can be crucial to walking you through "normal" life stuff that is so often escalated in intensity because of your context.

Keep us posted on how things are going;

kells76

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks Kells. Sometimes I wonder if my perspective is way off. Did I fantasize that she could go to a private school based on, well, fantasy? She got in, so clearly I wasn't off base, and if it were just up to me, I'd send her. Which is something to consider. Howwwwever, I have to factor in his disordered response, now or potentially. And the fact that deep down, I'm personally slightly more at ease with her staying in her current place -- but that also could come from being a bit afraid of him. Tell me honestly, do I sound like a disordered person myself? I should be glad both kids are healthy when I know moms taking care of sick kids, etc.

All of that said - yes I am trying to empathize with her. Her reaction was, "But you're the one doing this." I can't argue with that. This isn't like canceling a vacation. I think since we live so close to the school I probably brought it up more than I should have, over months. I also probably was semi-careful, but not enough.

[Mommeredith81]

GaGrl, sorry I missed your response earlier, "What is best for the child." That is a good question and one I may need help working out too. The answer is kind of 50/50. She's very upset at me for potentially not sending her to this new school she likes - they have an art studio, offer French, which she wants to learn, and she likes the structure. (She's a pre-teen so she doesn't always get what she wants, but sometimes...) I should have made it clearer to her early on that we weren't sure we could afford the school. So it may break her heart not to go, and she'll keep bringing it up and feeling really bad. We have to pass the school on her way to her regular school almost every day. So she is going to feel grief if she doesn't get to go. She did a trial day and loved it, which I think is making all this worse. Before that, she was a bit on the fence. That doesn't actually answer your question though...
Having her in a situation where her dad is angry isn't best for her. The school she's in now is a nice enough public school where she's been for years. She's been having drama with all her friends (which I think girls are doing a lot at this age) and likes the idea of starting fresh. But she also has to learn to get along. There's no bullying going on, just a bunch of sassy girls, and she's one of them. They mouth off to each other and are very sarcastic. If she goes back to her current school next year, she may gravitate toward new friends. I don't think that's bad.

I guess I'm working through all of this myself -- and my ex's disorder isn't helping. I should be working this out with him, but he gets so black and white (typical) that he may just say "She's never going." and that's that. And that's not fair.
She has 1 more year in current school, then will go on to public middle school, and this new school would be a good option THEN, but there will be less spaces avail if we wait a year, and ex may be more against it rather than less against it as an option. He'd have to give them his updated financials and may not be willing to do that again.
I wish I knew what will hurt her more: Breaking her heart, or fighting to send her and having ex be disordered about money.
She'll get a decent education either place, but probably will shine more at new school. But it's only 5th grade, so it's not like the one year will impact the rest of her life. To her it does, though.
Kells' telling me I should remind her it was a rushed process...that helps a bit. Back in Oct when we had to apply, I had no idea how it would all turn out. Who can know a year in advance?
One more wrinkle is that they offer summer programs in their art studio, and she could take those and not *go* to the school. But she told me that might make her feel worse.

[Mommeredith81]

Now I'm mad at myself for ever starting the whole thing. Each year, I have to struggle with ex to make sure the kids can stay on my health insurance. Do we need one more thing to fight about each year? He'll have to fill out these financial forms each year and likely that's what's bothering him. And he's required to. Private school is sort of like paying for college 10 years early. We're not in that position. Maybe I got a bit too complacent.

[Notwendy]

I think it might help to know that as a 9 year old, there is no way she can fully comprehend what is involved in attending a new school and also a private school.

All schools have middle school social drama because it's the age, not the school.

Parents choose a private school when that school meets a certain need that public school can not. For some parents, it's religion. They want a religious school and that can not be provided in public school. Some want the social exclusivity. And for some areas, the public schools may be so poorly run that they feel it's necessary- but it seems that is not the case in your situation.

If your D wants to learn French, or art, these can be done with classes after school. If going to the art studio makes her feel bad, there are probably other classes. There are lots of language classes online.

Your D might "shine" more at the private school but sooner or later, she will be in a situation where she's a bright kid among other bright kids. The biggest fish in the sea eventually goes to an ocean with other big fish. ( college ).  It's good for a child to get recognized for their achievements, but if she's the biggest fish in the middle school- that school converges eventually with other schools. Learning to swim with the other big fish and find her own direction is also an experience to consider.

Then there is the cost. College costs are considerable. Starting to pay private tuition at age 9 means paying about 12 years of college vs 4 years later on. This is a considerable expense.

A lot of the experiences your D may want can be obtained at a lower cost with extracurricular programs that cost less. After school lessons, summer programs.

[Mommeredith81]

Agreed, Wendy. We got plenty of aid but it's still an expense. I had another talk with my daughter about it last night and she said her heart is broken. She had visited the school and spent a lot of time talking to the 2 girls who'd be starting with her, and an older girl wrote her a letter about what to expect at her new school. And she really liked that girl. And her friend drama at her current school is getting out of hand. But on the other side, public schools have better mechanisms to deal with anxiety and such. This new school is fairly small.

On the third hand, a new school with all these things would really give her something to be excited about. She's been pretty down lately and not letting her go here has added a layer. If she hadn't known about this school everything would be fine.

I'm just sad that I put her through this application process and now she feels she won't see these friends again that she made. Sure, she may eventually have drama with them too, but they'd all be starting next year at this new school at the same time and she loves that idea.

I'm grateful for yours and everyone's thoughts, because I really have few people to ask about this. My ex's opinions swing so wildly and he's the main one invested in her, besides me. I think his parents may have told him not to go through this sending her, or something like that.

I told her last night that she could apply again next year if she still feels strongly about the school. Otherwise she goes to the local middle school (which is nearby). But she's kind of tapped out. She applied to this school over the last year and had to do an interview, created a portfolio, etc. I'm sorry I put her through all this.

All of that said, if it were just her and me, I might send her. But with ex as part of the team, there are issues that perhaps are better dealt with in public school than in a small private school. Maybe next year we'd be on the same page. I just don't know.

Hearing her say "I'll never see my new friends again" really broke my heart. She told our doctor on Monday that she's depressed.

[formflier]

Good thread, I'm sure a lot of people coming by to read have been in this position.

It shows the importance of ultra clear language in the divorce decree...(Forever Dad's example).

It also shows the importance of thinking deeply about "the one thing that matters most"...and making for dang sure you get it.   (Again to the FD example..he didn't have 6 random things that "were his number 1 priority"...if they wanted to settle...this one thing was going to happen and we can negotiate the rest...or we don't settle.)

A couple of asides here...observations really vice judgement on this particular situation.

One of the things kids learn as they mature and gain wisdom is that just because something is "possible"...it doesn't make it the "wisest" thing to do.  

Another things for kids to learn is money choices matter...maybe they will make different decisions in the future.  Has there been any discussion with the kid about "if we add this very expensive thing to you life, we will have to remove xyz from your life to make it affordable"  Again it appears both adults are weighing this...there is a teaching moment here for the kiddo.

Last:  "What's best" for the child is something that each party (parent) should figure out and have clear...well thought through beliefs.    So yes that is important.  

It's also important to realize that putting a child in a situation that is not "best" but comes up number 2 or 3 on your list of rankings is likely "just fine".  Avoid the "childlike" thinking of "if I don't do what is best, I'm "ruining" my childs life.  

All of the above generalities assume that the additional question of "will this harm my child" has been answered "no"...so after that it's all negotiable.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

[Mommeredith81]

I just talked to my therapist who said she's going to remember this forever and be angry at me. So that does kind of stink. He is pretty straightforward and obviously isn't as intimidated by my exH as I am.

She said to me that she's willing to forgo vacations and things if she can go to this school. So she really wants it.

I am probably just going to have to hurt her feelings and she's going to feel a loss. And I have to live with that. I guess there are worse things but this is going to rank up there - it's a small school she had her heart set on.

I just handled this wrong. I asked him how to break it to my daughter. He said I have to apologize, maybe try to make it up to her, but she will still look back and feel it was a pivotal moment.

I can live with her being mad at me. I can't live with her feeling like this ruined her chance at happiness (which she said too...maybe an exaggeration, but she was happy thinking about this school. I should have never brought it up if I didn't have it all thought through.)

[Notwendy]

I am kind of surprised he said this as if this is THE one disappointment at this level.

What happens when she doesn't get accepted at her #1 college?

What happens if she gets into her #1 college but it's too expensive and she has to go to her #2 college?

What happens when she has to have a certain prom dress but it costs more than all the others?

What happens when the prom date she wants asks someone else?

What happens when she wants a class in college but the class is full already?

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks, Wendy. Maybe I give his opinion too much import. I guess the difference would be, she knows she may not get into a class or college. This place, she *did* get into...and she just sees me not letting her go, and not really having a good reason. And most importantly, she won't get to see the kids she met. (She may see them in the park someday, but it's not the same as going to school with them.)

[formflier]

She said to me that she's willing to forgo vacations and things if she can go to this school. So she really wants it.
 

Is it possible to pause a decision either way for a couple days...does anything bad happen?

I was fairly certain I was in the "let her be disappointed and she will grow up to be a more resilient adult as a result" camp. 

However...I would hope you could explore the option a bit more, since she is "buying in"  (no..not paying for it all...but she is proposing "skin in the game" for her) 

Here is the thing...sounds like a great school.

Outcome 1:  She goes..loves the school but "hates" her life due to "her money" going to other places.  Let her solve that...that would be a wonderful "conundrum" that will help her mature.

Outcome 2:  She goes to school and loves it and doesn't mind "what she has given up"...so...win win here as well.

Outcome 3:  She goes to school and becomes a sulky child because she is not that happy with it and her parents "tricked" her into giving up all this stuff.  (I don't think this will happen..just trying to establish what a "bad outcome" might look like.)  Again..let her solve this with minimal guidance.  Life is about choices and we have a choice about how to respond to joy AND to disappointment.

Questions:  How much does she already have "invested" in this process?  Taking tests..going to interviews...writing an essay or did you guys do all the work and "she got in"  (not really...you guys got her in..in that instance)

If she has "invested" quite a bit and is willing to put much more "skin in the game" to get what she wants...then I would want you to consider what this looks like to send her and pay the difference.

I get the vibe that the Dad really can't pay (job loss etc etc). 

Switching gears...let's say Dad can "veto" this, even it he isn't paying.  That's not your problem to solve...

You say yes...you have the extra $$ ready to go AND then he somehow (if he has this power)..squashes it. 

It's not up to you to "protect" or "prosecute" him...it's up to you to leave the "lights on" so your daughter sees the choices her parents are making for her.

Thoughts?

Best,

FF

I'm sure I can think of others...

[formflier]

If going is an option.

Clarity on grades is essential. 

As in, "parents will pay for school as long as As or As and Bs but Cs are not acceptable.  (always with appropriate grace for "real" situations).

This is how she can have "more skin in the game".

Best,

FF

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks to you both! She's a pre-teen so she doesn't really understand the costs of vacations and things like that. But yes, if she goes, she will have to get at least decent grades and have some skin in the game. She knows that. She just wants to go.

I found out I don't need to make a decision this week, which is a relief.

Once I make the decision, I don't want to agonize over it for months. My daughter still may, though. I think I will likely ask ex-H his feelings one more time. And if he ends up saying it's ok to send her, I'll have to clarify the parameters with our PC.

[Notwendy]

I have an interesting question. How is your relationship with your mother?

I have posted about my own teen years with a BPD mother and so won't repeat it here but as you can imagine, my feelings about her were not exactly warm and fuzzy. It was ( and is still ) very important to me that this experience was not repeated with my own children. ( and it has not been - thankfully).

But still, there were times I said no to my children over something they wanted. And there were times they were disappointed in a decision I made. And there were some things I wish I did better. We aren't perfect at parenting, but one thing that was always obvious was consistent unconditional love.

I really did fear them being disappointed and angry at me. Sometimes they were and I felt so guilty and responsible.

But as time went on, I had to look at my own co-dependent tendencies- learned from how I grew up, feeling I needed to please everyone, be the one responsible for smoothing over everyone's feelings and afraid to say "no" and that I disappointed others. I had to learn to let people be responsible for their own feelings, so they can learn to manage them. That was an essential part of parenting- to allow children to learn to self regulate their feelings. If I managed them for them, or tried to intervene to keep them from feeling any negative feelings, I was doing them a disservice by taking away their opportunity to learn themselves. It's also a learning curve. Children don't do this well at first- so they complain, act out, tantrum. That's age appropriate. When adults do it, it's not ( and we know what that looks like).

Now none of us want to see our kids sad and disappointed. We are careful to protect them from things they can not handle and things that may be potentially harmful to them. But sometimes, letting them face these disappointments and learn to handle them is actually acting in their best interest long term. One question is - where is the fear and guilt coming from?

I do agree with the therapist about the value of an apology. Sometimes we do things we wish we could have done better. Making an honest amends is a way to repair a relationship. An honest, " I am sorry honey, I did not anticipate the financial issues this school has brought up before we looked into it. I feel badly that it is beyond our budget. I wish I could make this wish a reality, but I realized that I can't. I understand you are sad about it and I feel badly about this".

I do question that not being able to attend a private school for a 9 year old becomes the pivotal point of her life and an unforgettable situation that she may not ever get over. My own preferred thinking is that, yes, this is disappointing but when one door closes another one opens. She has many school years ahead of her. I also think of the "road not taken" poem. Does one look at the opportunities down the road they took, or constantly look at the road not taken and be sad for them?  One choice may have different possibilities . The other is a guarantee of unhappiness.

Whatever decision you make about this school- she goes or she doesn't- there will likely be choices she needs to make and things she wants that may not be affordable. Even if she is disappointed sometimes, learning how to manage her difficult feelings is a valuable skill.

[formflier]

Mind if I ask what the real deadline is? 


If you decide to send her and cover the cost, so all you need is Dad's "permission"...do you think that will go with him or ?

I'll certainly try to read the thread again in detail but the vibe I have right now is COST is the big thing and that perhaps if that isn't an issue for Dad...he's ok with whatever.

Note:  100 % agree with others that maturing kids need to deal with disappointment and I think if this ends up being a "no go"...that looking back this will be a good turning point for her...even it appears there is angst in the moment.

I'm certainly glad there is time to think it through.

Best,

Allen

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks. I thought I had to decide by this Friday but they're giving me another week.

Notwendy, my mom is mentally ill. Does have BPD traits. I still talk to her and help her but she was not the best role model.

[Notwendy]

This is something to think about. How we are attracted to, and attract is influenced by our families of origin. This isn't to blame but to understand why we do some things we do as adults. We learned certain behaviors growing up that were functional and necessary for us as children in our families, but when we take these behaviors into relationships as adults, they create dysfunction for us. We may unconsciously choose a partner who somehow "matches" our own behavioral patterns.

The good part about this is that if we learned these behaviors, we can unlearn them.

A challenge for me in parenting was being worried that my relationship with my children might replicate the one I have with my BPD mother. I did feel sad and disappointed many times. So I wanted to protect my own children from feeling that way about me and when they were angry or sad, it scared me. So I tended to lean the other way and try to "fix" things too much.

I also didn't have a role model for emotionally healthy mothering. So I imagined a perfect one, and yet, we are not perfect. We are humans and there will be times we wish we could have done things better. But we also have a way to make amends for our mistakes - a loving apology.

Naturally we want to provide things our children want, and need, but we also need to teach them about real world factors such as how to budget and afford the things they want and need and what to prioritize. This is not a concept that children grasp right away. They have no concept of what most things cost such as housing, food, utilities. It's beyond their age level and also we should not burden them with too much information at this age. However, they can begin to understand money. Giving a child a small allowance is a way for them to begin to learn. If they have $5 a week they can spend it on candy right away or save it for something that costs more. Adults deal with the larger things.

Working on codependency and learning to deal with my own fears of upsetting other people helped me to find more balance in all my relationships including as a parent. I understand it's also scary to have your child being treated for depression. You don't want to add more disappointment to that. On the other hand, overextending the family budget will add other stresses to you.

And kids say what they feel in the moment. My kids have been angry at me for saying "no" to something - yet, through this, they know I love them and our relationship has prevailed. Kids will act out and this was terrifying to see because it reminded me of how my mother behaves. Saying "no" to her is scary. But I had to also keep in mind that a moody pre-teen acting out is how they react at their age.

Now with depression, you do have the fear of self harm and maybe that is a fear of yours. This needs professional intervention. The idea that this school decision is pivotal is a concern if she's unable to handle this. Since you have time to decide- I think it would help to discuss this further with the counselor as to why it is for her.

[Mommeredith81]

Thanks, Notwendy and Formflier. Yes, I am scared she'll grow up and hate me and that for all my hard work, this is what she'll remember. I've made typical mom mistakes (yelled out of frustration, whatever) but this is a deeper cut. I let her apply to this school without really thinking about the ramifications. And I keep thinking about how FINALLY for about a year life was going fine with ex-H staying calm. And I got complacent and complicated it. (It was my daughter's idea to apply, but she has lots of ideas...I could have said to wait a year.)

I feel a little better today, though. We are probably not going to send her, and then I'll see if in fall she wants to apply for the next grade. If the school doesn't think we're total flakes, she may get in. But I'll have to get ex on the same page. And maybe daughter will have lost interest, which will make me kind of sad, but then in a way it resolves. Or maybe ex will just say no and that will be harder. We walked by the school today and she felt sad.

The wrinkle is that this coming week, ex may indeed come around and say I can pay for it next year. But what I also realized today (which is the kind of realization I need) is that I'm scared he'll get more involved if we switch, whereas he mostly kept away for years. I guess change scares me. I'm operating on fear - afraid of daughter hating me, afraid I'd be moving her from one school to another for really no good reason (one is slightly more about her interests) and afraid if I move her and agree to pay all of it, I'll be broke if we have an emergency or I need to deal with ex legally. Yes I can pay for this if I forgo a few things (like vacations) but I'm in divorce debt so this would take any free cash.

I really have to decide on my route and if it's worth it. I keep flipflopping. Daughter keeps saying to me, well, if I'm going to apply in the future, why can't I just go NOW? And then I think about how I should have put this off a year anyway, and saved more money and researched it more.

It's hard to decide all this stuff 5 months in advance anyway. Yeesh, schools want all the commitments so early. I get it, but I guess it feels soon. This is also considered a middle school, while my daughter has a year left of public elementary school before she'd go to middle school if she stays in the public schools. I don't know if I need to push her ahead so soon. But she is very gloom and doom and thinks she'll hate staying at her current school next year. She's exaggerating, for sure. I only think she thinks that because she was counting on leaving. She does get stressed and catastrophize.

Notwendy, you mentioned self harm. That's really my main concern. I wouldn't forgive myself if she hurt herself because I made a stupid decision. I don't think there are any dangers in the house, and I'm always watching her, but I feel bad that she feels this so painfully. I don't think she's in any danger right now, but a few years from now, when she's more independent, she may think back to this and have regrets. And then I can't really comfort her like I can now, with her being young and either in school or in my sight.

I want to make a rational decision, not one based in fear.  I don't know what that looks like.