How do I do this? Should I do this?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I don't know how to express what I'm thinking or feeling, but I'm going to give it a shot. My wife either has BPD or strong BPD-like tendencies. My mother-in-law is the same way, but worse. My MIL stayed with us for awhile (longer than I wanted). At the start of that, I had no idea how awful she actually was (we don't live near each other). My wife's and my relationship has been very strained for a couple of years. During the months my MIL was with us, my relationship was treading water, but during the last month sank rapidly. While my wife and I both have responsibility for the state of our relationship, my MIL is definitely a powerful contributor to how fast it eroded.

My wife has been somewhat emotionally abusive to our kids and me, but I've only very recently recognized that, and she refused to believe it. Her mom is 100 times worse, and my wife gets sucked into her mom's abuse and becomes essentially a clone of her mom. A bit ago, enough was enough and I told my wife I wanted a divorce.

My MIL is now out of the house and back in her own home waaaaaay out of town. My wife wants to work things out, but still doesn't believe her mom or herself have been emotionally abusive. When I've pointed out a couple of the huge items, she says she doesn't remember those happening. She knows there are events from her own childhood that she doesn't remember, but that were bad.

The kicker here is that my own memory is terrible (like, "I recently went to a neurologist to find out what's going on" bad). I can't remember specifics, dates, times, exact words said, etc. But I can remember the feeling, I can remember some general details. How do I trust what's real? Between my proven bad memory (my memory is proven bad, it's not just my wife manipulating me) and her insistence that things didn't happen, or didn't happen the way I remembered, how can I actually understand what is going on? How can I get my kids to safety? Should I consider trying one last time?

She says she's willing to acknowledge her role and responsibility in things (not the first time, but it'll be the first time it sticks if it does), but she hasn't actually said what she believes those are.

I'm confused. I'm hurt. I'm scared. I'm scared for my kids. My kids are hurting. I don't know what to do.

[Forgetful husband]

I don't know how to express what I'm thinking or feeling, but I'm going to give it a shot. My wife either has BPD or strong BPD-like tendencies. My mother-in-law is the same way, but worse. My MIL stayed with us for awhile (longer than I wanted). At the start of that, I had no idea how awful she actually was (we don't live near each other). My wife's and my relationship has been very strained for a couple of years. During the months my MIL was with us, my relationship was treading water, but during the last month sank rapidly. While my wife and I both have responsibility for the state of our relationship, my MIL is definitely a powerful contributor to how fast it eroded.

My wife has been somewhat emotionally abusive to our kids and me, but I've only very recently recognized that, and she refused to believe it. Her mom is 100 times worse, and my wife gets sucked into her mom's abuse and becomes essentially a clone of her mom. A bit ago, enough was enough and I told my wife I wanted a divorce.

My MIL is now out of the house and back in her own home waaaaaay out of town. My wife wants to work things out, but still doesn't believe her mom or herself have been emotionally abusive. When I've pointed out a couple of the huge items, she says she doesn't remember those happening. She knows there are events from her own childhood that she doesn't remember, but that were bad.

The kicker here is that my own memory is terrible (like, "I recently went to a neurologist to find out what's going on" bad). I can't remember specifics, dates, times, exact words said, etc. But I can remember the feeling, I can remember some general details. How do I trust what's real? Between my proven bad memory (my memory is proven bad, it's not just my wife manipulating me) and her insistence that things didn't happen, or didn't happen the way I remembered, how can I actually understand what is going on? How can I get my kids to safety? Should I consider trying one last time?

She says she's willing to acknowledge her role and responsibility in things (not the first time, but it'll be the first time it sticks if it does), but she hasn't actually said what she believes those are.

I'm confused. I'm hurt. I'm scared. I'm scared for my kids. My kids are hurting. I don't know what to do.

[Mommeredith81]

I'm sorry things are so tough. I think you are in a better place than you think you are. It sounds to me like the MIL made things absolutely awful. Without her, your wife seems willing to at least attempt to work on things. Sure, she can't truly move forward until she acknowledges what she's doing, but that can come in time. If you don't think there's immediate danger, you can look at your options...

Regarding your memory, you probably should keep a journal. This will help remind you that you're not imagining things, will keep you on a steady course, and will help you if you ever go to court. Don't let her find it.

Even if you have memory problems, she may be gaslighting you. Maybe you are stressed and that's why you're forgetting.

How old are your kids?

I'd suggest counseling, but lots of counselors don't recognize abuse. There are protocols for DV counseling that are different. If you can find a trained relationships counselor with experience in verbal abuse and domestic abuse, that person may talk to you both individually and then together, and see if your wife can work on her issues. A smart counselor will be able to help improve things without making her too defensive. As long as you aren't afraid for yourself or the kids while you try to work on things.

Good luck!

[alleyesonme]

What you're going through sounds awful. This board can be very helpful, as a lot of us have had similar experiences and traveled a similar path that you already have and/or may in the future.

The idea to start journaling regularly is a great one. Another tip is to check with an attorney to see if installing a nanny cam or even having an audio recorder attached to you at all times is legal. If either of those are legal in your state, they'd both help you gain clarity as to what's really happening, and may provide useful evidence for you in a potential custody dispute. If you go through with either of these, do not tell your W or anyone other than your attorney about it.

[PeteWitsend]

Definitely start journaling.

It will blow your mind how often you ignore awful behavior, or how quickly you forget about it and move on.

Journaling showed me how often we fought, and even in "good months" we were still not speaking to eachother for anywhere from a 1/3 to 1/2 the time.  That was crazy to me... looking back over a year, we were either fighting or straight up not saying a word to eachother for 10-15 days a month, EVERY month.

Don't expect mentioning that you're keeping a journal to help things; your BPD partner will fly into a rage if they know you're doing that.  They know their power to control the narrative is depending on you remaining isolated and ignorant... if you start writing things down and standing up for yourself, their whole web collapses. 

You are keeping the journal for you, to help you decide whether this is the sort of life you want to live, and what you will do about it.

[alleyesonme]

Definitely start journaling.

It will blow your mind how often you ignore awful behavior, or how quickly you forget about it and move on.

Journaling showed me how often we fought, and even in "good months" we were still not speaking to eachother for anywhere from a 1/3 to 1/2 the time.  That was crazy to me... looking back over a year, we were either fighting or straight up not saying a word to eachother for 10-15 days a month, EVERY month.

Don't expect mentioning that you're keeping a journal to help things; your BPD partner will fly into a rage if they know you're doing that.  They know their power to control the narrative is depending on you remaining isolated and ignorant... if you start writing things down and standing up for yourself, their whole web collapses. 

You are keeping the journal for you, to help you decide whether this is the sort of life you want to live, and what you will do about it.

Great tips here.

Here are some other tips regarding journaling - feel free to use as much or as little as you think will help you.

In the event that you get into a custody dispute, having some sort of prior documentation that what you are now (in the future) alleging actually happened in the past can help your case. One way to do that with time stamps is to send an email to yourself every single day. You'll obviously need to make sure your W can't access that email account. In the journal entries that you email to yourself, do not say anything negative about her - just black and white facts of what happened, and you can probably mention if you were scared, in pain, etc. as well. There's nothing wrong with keeping a journal that discusses your feelings, how furious you are, how you think she has issues, and so on - but keep that journal separate from the emailed version.

[ForeverDad]

Don't expect mentioning that you're keeping a journal to help things; your BPD partner will fly into a rage if they know you're doing that.  They know their power to control the narrative is depending on you remaining isolated and ignorant... if you start writing things down and standing up for yourself, their whole web collapses. 

You are keeping the journal for you, to help you decide whether this is the sort of life you want to live, and what you will do about it.

You would be astounded how many arrive here and report that in the past they would journal or record conflicts and then when they would "confess" doing that later (often during late night interrogations) or when snooping spouse would discover it and demand it deleted, they would delete as demanded.  Then of course the cycles would continue.

That is why your journals and recordings (and discussions with lawyers) MUST be considered private and confidential.  Move them to media where she has no electronic or physical access.  Some members have reported locked brief cases broken into, tire irons used to pry open locked trunks/boots, spouses showing up the office and waiting unsupervised and ransacking the office.

Sharing that sort of information with a spouse who is deep into Denial, Blaming and Blame Shifting is a sure path to self-sabotaging your hopes of bettering your own life and your parenting if you have children.