Depp v. Heard

[BigOof]

Is anyone watching tomorrow?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rl2bk4QUXL8&ab_channel=ColonelKurtz

All a little too familiar.

[PeteWitsend]

Poor Johnny.

It's telling her motion for a PO went nowhere; BPDers always get a rude awakening when they try behave in court like they do in real life... in court you gotta actually present evidence to support your allegations.  And you can't just shout over people (especially the judge) when they don't agree with you.  and making allegations in the first place takes a lot of time and money.  

It was no surprise to me after I filed for divorce why BPDxw kept messaging me separately asking to meet in person and "work things out without these lawyers involved."  

It's also kinda illuminating Johnny Depp picked her for that role.  Anybody else familiar with the novel or the movie?  Near the end of the novel, feeling ignored by her BF, she flirtatiously goes to party with some locals, and ends up getting her BF and his friend beaten up when they try to intervene after the locals get too aggressive with her.  

I remember watching the movie with BPDxw, who was confused why the BF ditched her after that.  she didn't think she did anything wrong.  

another     I failed to heed...

[ForeverDad]

I didn't watch any court action, but that clip compilation did echo what I experienced.  It seems she agreed to the recordings?  Yikes, she felt his passivity merited hitting?  What entitlement.

My ex would strike out when she was ranting and raging, though here I've read that some of those instances could have been dissociation.  Her typical claim afterward was she didn't do it.  I don't care whether she doesn't remember or claims she doesn't remember, if she did it then she's in the wrong.

My court studiously ignored her poor behaviors for eight years.  In our final appearance when I had custody and was seeking majority time, finally the magistrate wrote that my ex should have counseling but didn't order it due to the possible cost.

Please post the outcome of this Depp case.  Will court studiously ignore the mental state of the misbehaving spouse and make the simplest, weakest decision possible?

[15years]

This sounds a lot like the "discussions" I've had with my wife the past couple of months. Do you think that in this conversation, Depp is talking back more than usual to her to get a good recording? I have similar recordings. It's fascinating (and scary) how they can justify and justify and justify no matter what you tell them.

[Notwendy]

Yes, I listened to part of this too and wondered why Depp kept repeating the topic but it led her right into her "justifying" hitting him ( which isn't acceptable) . In general, it sounded like he was perpetuating the circular argument but in the case of getting a recording, it worked to attain that. I surmise that is what he needed.

I don't know the whole of the situation but he's got considerable assets as well as his professional image to protect and so would protect it.

Overall, I think he has his quirks as well but her responses were disturbing.

[BigOof]

It's fascinating (and scary) how they can justify and justify and justify no matter what you tell them.

Blame shifting, projection, justification, entitlement, and all are done with a complete lack of cognitive empathy.

For Heard, she's the victim since Depp won't take her abuse.

[Notwendy]

A topic that interests me is the intergenerational patterns of dysfunction- which also occurs with abuse.

It seems Depp had an abusive mother as well:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10712627/Johnny-Depp-gets-emotional-sister-testifies-abusive-childhood.html

[BigOof]

From https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/07/07/johnny-depp-i-was-an-easy-target-for-calculating-narcissist-amber-heard/

"She is a calculating, diagnosed borderline personality; she is sociopathic; she is a narcissist; and she is completely emotionally dishonest."

[BigOof]

Johnny Depp live now:

https://www.courttv.com/title/court-tv-live-stream-web/

[NonnyMouse]

What Johnny Depp has been going through, according to his testimony, is horribly familiar. Even down to his saying that some things were strange right from the start, that there were warning signs.

I would recommend watching this live. Edited highlights are not going to pick up on the bits that those with partners with BPD will recognise.

[DazzleD]

She’s been well and truly called out, caught out and rightly so. She’s publicly tried smearing the poor guy for the world to see after gaslighting and abusing him. Fair play to him fighting back. Many of us don’t get that opportunity.

[ForeverDad]

Well, there it is in "black and white" print.  As one news site reported, forensic psychologist "Dr. Shannon Curry delivered a damning assessment of Amber Heard's personality ... Borderline personality disorder and Histrionic personality disorder."

It's not that this hasn't happened in Hollywood, it just doesn't end up in court like this.  On a positive note, this breathes some fresh air — and reality — into the concept (think the USA "Violence Against Women Act") that women are always the helpless victims and men are always the threatening aggressors.

He sued for $50M, she sued for $100M.  What will the jury do?  I can imagine the jury sending them both a wake up to reality message.

For most of us here who were in court for years to address custody and parenting issues, we had to settle for a court and other professionals studiously avoiding the deeper issues.  During my years in and out of domestic court (2005 - 2013) I started with temp no custody and temp alternate weekends (before the final decree) and ended with full custody and majority parenting time during the school year.  It was only at our last court case did a magistrate write that my ex needed counseling... but even so didn't order it.

Edited to add Histrionic ... very notable.

[PeteWitsend]

I've never heard "histrionic personality disorder" before, but I suppose the name is more descriptive than "borderline" which is NOT very descriptive.

Poor Johnny.

I've been following this on twitter as well.  Interesting to me who is rushing to defend her and take her side (but I don't want to drag politics into it).  Kinda makes you wonder if BPD is more common in Washington DC...

To the extent none of us were able to tell our stories like he has been, it sucks we just didn't have the money.  But hopefully, but him doing this, it helps judges and other authorities involved in resolving custody disputes around the country take abuse allegations more seriously, without regard to the gender of each party, or the lack of physical abuse (although in this case there was physical abuse as well).

[Notwendy]

 I also don't want to drag politics into it but I'd venture to say our whole political climate is a dysfunctional relationship

Maybe it took Hollywood to have the power to being domestic abuse of men into the light- and so Depp becomes known as a defender in real life in addition to being a fictional pirate.

[PeteWitsend]

from USA Today:

Histrionic personality disorder, Curry said, is associated with “drama and shallowness,” and a need to be the center of attention.

She said there’s a correlation in the disorder with people who are physically attractive and “utilize their looks to get that attention.”

Hmmm... that explains some of BPDxw's behavior.  She seemed to really crave the adulation of achieving something more than the achievement itself (and certainly A LOT more than doing the work required to achieve something).  

she had her whole sob story about how much she achieved as an immigrant, omitting all the money and time I spent helping her pass professional exams, and being the sole reason she was even able to have the means to stay in the country to take them.  Likewise her story about being proud to become an American citizen, which apparently would still have happened without our marriage, the hours I spent doing her immigration forms, or me paying all the associated fees...

[PeteWitsend]

I also don't want to drag politics into it but I'd venture to say our whole political climate is a dysfunctional relationship
...

There's probably a correlation there.  You look at what it takes to become a politician in this country, or at least advance as one, and compare that to the characteristics of BPD and histrionics, and it's uncanny

For me, even beyond the lying, is the willingness to abide by a double standard.  they need to be part of society, and receive the benefits of it, but not comply with the norms or rules themselves.

Just like pwBPD need relationships, but hold their partners to a standard they don't meet.  very one-sided.

MIND BLOWN! 

[livednlearned]

It's also possible that both parties are disordered.

[15years]

Now that this is all over the news, and people discuss it at work aso, how do you act if the topic is brought up? To people who doesn't know about your personal experience of dysfunctional relationships I mean. It gets a little uncomfortable, it wouldn't be genuine to discuss it like normal celebrity gossip with someone who doesn't know about your experience, but it is also rarely suitable to be honest. It also makes you feel a bit like a freak when people laugh at how insane this is. At the same time, it's also a bit validating.

And also, discussing this with bpd partner, that's tricky.

[Notwendy]

15 Years- considering how volatile your wife is when it comes to discussing TV shows, movies, actors, I'd suggest you say as little as possible. If she says something about either or them-smile, nod, agree- change the subject. If she begins to personalize this to you, change the subject.

Keep boundaries in mind- yes, Heard has BPD, their relationship sounds like a mess. But BPD is still a spectrum and they are individuals. If people laugh about it or say something- it's about them, not you. The topic is uncomfortable, but the two of them have their own relationship. Talking about them should not spill over into talking about your relationship.

With a broad perspective.  It's not all about Amber Heard being the villain. Johnny had a part in this too. One important fact that came out in this trial is that his mother was abusive to him. Abuse and dysfunctional family patterns are seen between generations. Our families of origin have an influence on who we are attracted to and who is attracted to us. This is not to blame Johnny but in hope  that he will decide to look at his own part in this, so he can recover emotionally from his experiences.

[ForeverDad]

Personal impact... my recently adult son doesn't want to discuss how this case echos my experience.  He was on the phone with his mother yesterday and though she said she didn't follow the news much, she immediately began to blame me and claim I lied during our divorce 15 years ago.  So she knows more than she admitted about the news and so far she hasn't seen the connection.

And my son doesn't want to hear anything from either of us about our past conflicts.

This reminds me that there are two categories for sins...sins of commission and sins of omission.  Depp's sins were mostly of omission, he didn't choose well, he didn't seek effective help and he didn't get away and end it when things kept getting bad, well, not quickly.

Fortunately there are no children.

[Notwendy]

Agreed but in context of Depp having an abusive mother and a passive father who tolerated this, despite all his fame and resources, Depp may not have recognized what was going on until he was very much drawn into it. Depp became famous at the age of 20. If we consider that childhood abuse causes one to get "stuck" in their emotional growth, it's possible that Depp did too.

Considering that if this kind of thing can happen to Depp, it could happen to anyone. I also am pleased to see he's brought domestic abuse to men into the light. I hope this awareness can help others in this situation.

[PeteWitsend]

...

And my son doesn't want to hear anything from either of us about our past conflicts.

This reminds me that there are two categories for sins...sins of commission and sins of omission.  Depp's sins were mostly of omission, he didn't choose well, he didn't seek effective help and he didn't get away and end it when things kept getting bad, well, not quickly.

...

This hits home with me.

I know I made some mistakes, taking as long as I did to get out.  But worse in my mind: not fighting for 50/50 custody, and walking away with basically not much more than entitled to at statute; mostly to avoid huge legal bills - I cheaped out - and get on with my life.

my daughter on occasion has asked why she can't stay with me more often, and specifically complained about BPDxw's boyfriend and the fighting b/t him and BPDxw as a problem.  (I've confirmed there's no physical abuse, just yelling and cursing).

Presumably, I'll bear some responsibility in her eyes for leaving her in that situation.  I accept that, but it sucks.  

[PeteWitsend]

https://twitter.com/RekietaLaw/status/1519078776587657224?s=20&t=PbUxjF-b2FQU7YjA1GaN3w

I suppose that could just be a coincidence...

[stolencrumbs]

If anyone is still paying attention, I don't think JD is going to come out of this looking particularly good. I get it if there are kids involved, but otherwise, the legal system seems to be a uniquely terrible place to try to battle a pwBPD. There's zero chance he wins the actual case, but I assume he had other reasons to pursue this. I don't see him "winning" in that sense either, though. I'm sure this is slightly too pessimistic of a view, but I can't help but feel like any confidence people have in the legal system or the mental health system is almost entirely misplaced when it comes to pwBPD.

[zachira]

Stolencrumbs,
I am thinking along these lines as well. I don't see Johnny having any chance of winning this one, and certainly both he and Amber are likely coming out of this with their reputations irreparably damaged. I believe the therapist who said they both abused each other. So many who post here, have gotten to the point in which getting away from the abuser and cutting the losses makes more sense than pursuing justice which is so difficult and costly to attain, when there are no dependent children involved.

[Skip]

Like many, I've been a fan of Johnny Depp for years. I suspect this lawsuit will be a train-wreck for both of them - magnifying the dysfunction in their home to the world stage.

The Washington Post article certainly has hurt him - but thus trial has to be far more damaging.

Hard to see how he proves that her article was largely false inaccurate AND it directly cost him $50 million in movie salaries.

I suspect he will recover from all this in the end.

[ForeverDad]

They both have made allegations, yet Depp is the one with documentation, the recordings can't be discounted, not like allegations which can be described as "he said, she said" which is often viewed as hearsay.

In civil cases, the standard of proof is a “preponderance of the evidence”—more likely than not. There, a slight advantage in the evidence is enough to win.
Link

My wild guess is the jury/statement will award one litigant $1 and the other $1 or maybe $2.

Disclaimer... I watched Jump Street decades ago when both I and Depp were young but haven't watched any of the Pirates movies.

[Notwendy]

Disclaimer... I watched Jump Street decades ago when both I and Depp were young but haven't watched any of the Pirates movies.

I have watched both, and other movies he's been in, and probably like the majority of straight women on this planet, well let's say, I have noticed his good looks.

But something else about him always incited another feeling- a wariness, a nervousness. Could this be the "boundaries" we talk about? Not the obvious red flags but just a general feeling of unease about another person with no apparent reason but we sense it?

Because no matter who "wins" this case or who is the most abusive/dysfunctional, there's a whole lot of drama involved in being in a relationship with either one of them.

There's another thread about attracting/being attracted to someone with BPD. As good looking as Depp is, he's also felt a bit scary to me. Heard is attractive too. And yet, someone else might run from either one of them, but somehow, they felt a match with each other.

[stolencrumbs]

They both have made allegations, yet Depp is the one with documentation, the recordings can't be discounted, not like allegations which can be described as "he said, she said" which is often viewed as hearsay.

My wild guess is the jury/statement will award one litigant $1 and the other $1 or maybe $2.

Disclaimer... I watched Jump Street decades ago when both I and Depp were young but haven't watched any of the Pirates movies.

She has documentation, too. She has recordings, photos, texts, contemporaneous notes from her therapist(s), etc. And her own testimony isn't hearsay. I just can't imagine the jury finding for either one of them on defamation. It appears to have been a really awful relationship with awful behavior from both of them. The whole thing is just really sad, and really sad that millions of people are watching it. No one is going to look like a winner in this thing, because, as best I can tell, no one is a winner in this thing.   

[BigOof]

I don't think Depp actually cares about the money. Suing pretty women is a very hard way to make money. To make money, he'd be better off spending his time producing a new movie or going on tour.

The point of the lawsuit is to take a pound of flesh from Heard and destroy her career, forever. If Johnny was toxic after the op-ed, Heard is now nuclear. Shortchanging the ACLU while using its name to further her career and destroy a beloved character in the process? That's un-American.

https://www.change.org/p/dc-entertainment-remove-amber-heard-from-aquaman-2