To divorce or not to divorce

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Not that I think I have any control over the situation, but here it goes.

Background: Married for 6 years, together for 7 years in total. 8 months old baby girl, seperated for 3 months.
(We are from Turkey, just in case cultural or judicial differences make a difference)


uBPDw split me black 3 months ago, said she wanted to divorce, took D8mo 420km(260 miles?) away with her to her parents. Told she would come back in two weeks to file for divorce.
Told her OK, prepared an agreement so we could handle it Uncontested, where I gave her 100% everything, plus alimony for a year, and all the expenses of D8mo for my lifetime, only
thing I wanted was to be able to see D8mo 3 days every 2 weeks (after). She kept postponing the process, saying she was making some changes on the contract etc. 6 weeks ago, I finally
asked what's the deal with the delay, which she responded "It's ready, whats your hurry?" and sent it immideatly.
After a day or so, I said I'm OK with the changes, we could proceed. Than told me it was hard for her to come with D8mo, and could we do it in her city. I initially rejected, but
agreed later on. She than sent me another draft, stating I could only visit D8mo every 2 weeks, for only 3-4 hours, until she no longer breastfeeds. Time, date, location would be at her approval,
and until D8mo is 6 years old, I could not take her farther from 20km's (12 miles?). I told her this was out of question and I would not agree to it.(This was over text)

After a few days; I went to pick D8mo up, she asked about the draft again, and I told her in very clear way that this was out of question. She than threatened she would file a contested divorce, which
I replied "Do as your heart wishes".

So, yesterday she texted me something along the lines that contested divorce would be long and stressful for everybody, her terms were clear, I should state my terms as well and maybe
we could reach a compromise (which I believe was very clear) so "We could free you from your purgatory". So now, it was me that actually wanted to divorce all along apparently.
I replied we should talk this face to face. Well, that day is tomorrow. And I really don't know how to handle this.

a) If not for D8mo, I would absolutely agree to anything she demanded so we could part our ways. I think I love her still, but I'm absolutely spent, utterly devastated, and don't want to deal with her anymore.
But the hardest part was missing every little thing D8mo growing up, counting days until I see her again etc. So i think I'm willing to endure uBPDw just for D8mo. Should I?

b) I'm really not sure if she actually wanted to divorce. I still don't. I want to understand if all this was just a bluff gone wrong. I  don't know how to ask this.

c) I'm really concerned regarding D8mo, as I'm pretty sure MIL has uBPD and uBPDw will tear each other apart -if they've not already-.

d) I've been going to therapy since the beginning, but last few weeks was especially rough. I'm feeling suicidal, which I shared with my therapist, and began additional medication. But I really don't look forward to anything but the few hours with D8mo.
I see no hope.

[redlinetheturk]

Not that I think I have any control over the situation, but here it goes.

Background: Married for 6 years, together for 7 years in total. 8 months old baby girl, seperated for 3 months.
(We are from Turkey, just in case cultural or judicial differences make a difference)


uBPDw split me black 3 months ago, said she wanted to divorce, took D8mo 420km(260 miles?) away with her to her parents. Told she would come back in two weeks to file for divorce.
Told her OK, prepared an agreement so we could handle it Uncontested, where I gave her 100% everything, plus alimony for a year, and all the expenses of D8mo for my lifetime, only
thing I wanted was to be able to see D8mo 3 days every 2 weeks (after). She kept postponing the process, saying she was making some changes on the contract etc. 6 weeks ago, I finally
asked what's the deal with the delay, which she responded "It's ready, whats your hurry?" and sent it immideatly.
After a day or so, I said I'm OK with the changes, we could proceed. Than told me it was hard for her to come with D8mo, and could we do it in her city. I initially rejected, but
agreed later on. She than sent me another draft, stating I could only visit D8mo every 2 weeks, for only 3-4 hours, until she no longer breastfeeds. Time, date, location would be at her approval,
and until D8mo is 6 years old, I could not take her farther from 20km's (12 miles?). I told her this was out of question and I would not agree to it.(This was over text)

After a few days; I went to pick D8mo up, she asked about the draft again, and I told her in very clear way that this was out of question. She than threatened she would file a contested divorce, which
I replied "Do as your heart wishes".

So, yesterday she texted me something along the lines that contested divorce would be long and stressful for everybody, her terms were clear, I should state my terms as well and maybe
we could reach a compromise (which I believe was very clear) so "We could free you from your purgatory". So now, it was me that actually wanted to divorce all along apparently.
I replied we should talk this face to face. Well, that day is tomorrow. And I really don't know how to handle this.

a) If not for D8mo, I would absolutely agree to anything she demanded so we could part our ways. I think I love her still, but I'm absolutely spent, utterly devastated, and don't want to deal with her anymore.
But the hardest part was missing every little thing D8mo growing up, counting days until I see her again etc. So i think I'm willing to endure uBPDw just for D8mo. Should I?

b) I'm really not sure if she actually wanted to divorce. I still don't. I want to understand if all this was just a bluff gone wrong. I  don't know how to ask this.

c) I'm really concerned regarding D8mo, as I'm pretty sure MIL has uBPD and uBPDw will tear each other apart -if they've not already-.

d) I've been going to therapy since the beginning, but last few weeks was especially rough. I'm feeling suicidal, which I shared with my therapist, and began additional medication. But I really don't look forward to anything but the few hours with D8mo.
I see no hope.

[alterK]

Hello redline and welcome! It is good that you found this forum. People here may not be able to solve all your problems, but they will try to help! Seems to me you are talking about two principle things, which I'll take in reverse.

First, are you actually going to divorce? Simplest is to ask your wife directly. You can say you don't want to, and see what her reply is.

If she truly has BPD, though, it won't be simple from then on. She will likely blame you for all that's gone wrong and say the only hope is if you "fix yourself." To restore a marriage requires collaboration and shared acceptance of responsibility, things that pwBPD are notoriously bad at.

Still, what do you have to lose by asking?

Second, your daughter. This is a negotiation--again something pwBPD usually don't do well. You are at something of a disadvantage because you have begun by stating what is called your fallback position, meaning, the minimum visitation time that you really want. A better way to start is to ask for more than you think you can get and then adjusting in response to what the other person is willing to give. It's like bargaining in a market.

Perhaps you can say you have changed your mind, and then demand more than those 3 days every 2 weeks--something like, No, you actually want 3 days every week.

I don't know how difficult a contested divorce is in Turkey, so you will have to decide whether you are willing to risk that if she doesn't agree to what you think you deserve. I once knew a person who worked as a mediator for problems like this, meaning she was skilled at getting people to agree before they went to court. Is any such person available to you?

[livednlearned]

Friend, these BPD relationships are hard. When kids are involved it's even harder.

It does sound like the typical push/pull with BPD, where she wants something one moment, and then changes her trajectory once her emotions subside. But then she looks around and sees she's on a path and it becomes hard to walk it back.

How do you see being in Turkey as a contributing factor? Have you consulted with an attorney?

If I'm understanding the timing correctly, she expected you to meet with her today (5/7) -- did that happen?

It can feel catastrophic in the heat of these separations, especially when a child is involved. I'm glad you're seeing a therapist and considering medications to help stabilize things as you walk this path. And you're sharing here, which for many of us was a lifesaver and game-changer. There is a lot of collective wisdom here and a lot of us can walk alongside you and share what helped us make it through.

[FirstSteps]

I just want to say how much I empathize and sympathize with your situation.  It can be so exhausting to survive day to day life, much less divorce drama.  I am in a similar situation of my wife driving separation only to back off at the last minute and claim I was the one who wanted it.

I have older children, but I would say that your commitment to your daughter shines through.  I would not back off on that point, and I agree that I would immediately reframe demands to as much time as possible.

I don't know the cultural norms for you in Turkey but your child will benefit from as much time as possible with you - to give her a chance to experience life outside the pwBDP's family system.  Good luck!

[ForeverDad]

Currently she is with her parents about 6 hours away.  In the settlement is there any restriction or limit how far away she may reside?  It's hard to be parenting a lot if the ex is more than an hour or two away.  If she has no limits on where she lives, then you can easily end up endlessly moving to catch up with your daughter.

On that thought, unless she is there only temporarily, are you able to move closer to her and find work there so you can be a more involved parent?  (Be aware that she may move away any time you move closer.  How can you address that possibility?)

Her wanting to limit your time to just 3-4 hours on a visit is totally unreasonable, assuming your culture is similar to other countries.  Almost any divorce court would grant you far more time.  At the least, dads often get at least alternate weekends (my initial temp order was a full 3 days, 72 hours) and an evening or overnight in between.

She may claim, but baby has to be with me virtually all the time since I'm breastfeeding.  Well, millions of nursing mothers are apart form their children for extended periods such as for work, parenting orders, illness and other scenarios.  What do they do?  They express their milk and freeze it in advance to pass it along at exchanges or leave with the babysitter.  Millions do it, she can too.

The others are right, if you start with your minimum wishes for custody and parenting, then you will end up with less.  Your disordered spouse (potential stbEx) will surely try to reduce it even more.  A better strategy, it is not bad to detail the parenting schedule you want and even a little bit more, since negotiation means you are likely to walk away with less.

In some areas having an equal parenting time schedule is more common.  For young children the 2-2-3 schedule (or 2-5-5-2) is better since the child is not apart from either parent for more than a few days.  One parent gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent gets Wed-Thu overnights and they alternate Fri-Sat-Sun weekends.

Also, if you do end up with less than equal time, then make sure you get plenty of holidays and vacation time specified in the eventual parenting order.  Be an involved parent, not a sidelined parent.

I don't know your culture, but I'll share what my then-spouse told our mediator as we began our divorce process.  She claimed she had to have our preschooler son since since it was in her culture.  I replied that she grew up in a family where her father raised her brothers while her mother and stepfather raised her and her sister.  So I stated I'd be willing to follow her family's pattern, that I as a father wanted to raise my son.  You can imagine her reaction!

We had been married for over a decade when we had a child.  Clueless me, I had hoped that having a baby would make my spouse happier.  I learned - too late - that having children does not fix serious troubles and issues.  In our case, as I looked back, I had become a father and that reminded her of her problem stepfather.  Ouch!

I noticed you've been together for years but separated soon after the baby arrived.  How did this change her perspective?  Did she have troubling behaviors in prior years?

[finallyout]

a) If not for D8mo, I would absolutely agree to anything she demanded so we could part our ways. I think I love her still, but I'm absolutely spent, utterly devastated, and don't want to deal with her anymore.
But the hardest part was missing every little thing D8mo growing up, counting days until I see her again etc. So i think I'm willing to endure uBPDw just for D8mo. Should I?

Oh man, reading this broke my heart! I am so sorry you are going through this!

It seems to me that you are still emotionally attached to her but you are seeing now that this relationship is not healthy for you and your kid, which is a good sign of health. But this emotional attachment you have is playing against you. Your wife knows that you still care for her, and most importantly, you care a lot for your child, and she is using that to make you suffer. So something to consider, is to play a bit and try to delay the divorce and any agreement regarding your child. In the meantime, you work on yourself with your therapist to detach. This will make your position much stronger because she will realize that she can't blackmail you anymore. You started the negotiation by offering a lot which made her demand more. This reflects your inner state of confusion and dependency, on her presence and even on the presence of your child.

My situation is a bit different that yours because my ex can't take any major life decision concerning our D2 without my signature. For example, she can't move away with her without my agreement, which she would get only on my dead body. And I was the one who left the relationship and started working on myself to detach emotionally from her. Yes, it was and still is a difficult and unstable phase, which is not good for our kid but this is how things are when you deal with a disordered person. My ex has the impression that I could abandon her and my child if needed, which is a fake impression I created just to get an advantage in the negotiation we are having right now concerning custody and visitation time. This is an advice I got from my therapist and until now it is working very well. But you have to consider here that she still has hope that I will come back one day, and as long as I have contact to my child, she can have contact with me. This will go on until she gives up hope, and what she will do next is highly unpredictable. She might fall apart, and I have a full custody, or she might use the child to punish me. But until then, I hope we are going to have a written agreement so she would not have large space to play her dirty games.

I am sorry to say that, but it is really a game you have to play. I understand that you are fully committed to your child, but things are complicated. It is always about limiting her playing field, so you could better predict what she would do next. And this game is not going to end soon. Maybe you have to play it until your kid is an adult.

Best of Luck my friend

[BigOof]

...took D8mo 420km(260 miles?) away with her to her parents.

This is Parental Alienation (PA). Your time is better spent and you'll be more effective if you read some books on PA. Start with:

- https://www.amazon.com/Alienate-Resilient-Children-Avoiding-Conflict/dp/1936268035
- https://www.amazon.com/High-Conflict-Custody-Battle-Accusations-Alienation/dp/1626250731

Learning about BPD is a time-consuming thought whole.

[redlinetheturk]

Oh, wow, thanks a lot for the replies! It really makes a difference when you tell this stuff, all you get is a shrug, or a forced smile.

First, are you actually going to divorce? Simplest is to ask your wife directly. You can say you don't want to, and see what her reply is.

I asked the question at the very beginning of this whole thing, and she said she was determined, so I did not want to ask again.

If she truly has BPD, though, it won't be simple from then on. She will likely blame you for all that's gone wrong and say the only hope is if you "fix yourself." To restore a marriage requires collaboration and shared acceptance of responsibility, things that pwBPD are notoriously bad at.

Still, what do you have to lose by asking?

I guess my hesitancy comes from the fact that if her answer is she does not want to divorce; I'm really not sure if I want to keep going on.

Second, your daughter. This is a negotiation--again something pwBPD usually don't do well. You are at something of a disadvantage because you have begun by stating what is called your fallback position, meaning, the minimum visitation time that you really want. A better way to start is to ask for more than you think you can get and then adjusting in response to what the other person is willing to give. It's like bargaining in a market.

Perhaps you can say you have changed your mind, and then demand more than those 3 days every 2 weeks--something like, No, you actually want 3 days every week.

I don't know how difficult a contested divorce is in Turkey, so you will have to decide whether you are willing to risk that if she doesn't agree to what you think you deserve. I once knew a person who worked as a mediator for problems like this, meaning she was skilled at getting people to agree before they went to court. Is any such person available to you?

What I really want is to have sole custody, which is unfair to D8mo and impossible for me to get. Reasoning behind the 2 weeks is it already costs me 60% of my monthly income just for the trip and accommodation. The trip takes ~4 hours one-way only if I use really expensive toll roads. Otherwise it would take 6-7 hours one way. Gas is getting more expensive everyday, my car is a gas hog, and buying a gas efficient car is out of reach for me. I guess the Turkey part comes in here, there is hyperinflation, plus when you buy a car you buy two for the state (~200% tax) etc. Even though I have a relatively high income, visiting every week would be a bad idea financially. She does not work as well, so I also support her 100% financially.
Contested divorce is very problematic as far as my lawyer tells me -if you are a male-, and I should really try to settle this out of court. So I’m essentially bluffing regarding the visitation times. To quote my lawyer “The court will seek out the sole benefit of the child, regardless of who is at fault. So unless she is an immediate threat to the child, or lives an dishonorable life i.e. prostitute; the mother will be given sole custody.”
Mediation is somewhat new in our judiciary system, so I’m not really informed in that regard. Perhaps I should look into that.

Friend, these BPD relationships are hard. When kids are involved it's even harder.

It does sound like the typical push/pull with BPD, where she wants something one moment, and then changes her trajectory once her emotions subside. But then she looks around and sees she's on a path and it becomes hard to walk it back.

How do you see being in Turkey as a contributing factor? Have you consulted with an attorney?
If I'm understanding the timing correctly, she expected you to meet with her today (5/7) -- did that happen?

I’m really not sure as a contributing factor, but my observation is that PD’s are even less known/recognized over here.
The meet did happen; I explained that I already compromised regarding all other matters (giving her 100% of anything of value), but I could never agree to her terms regarding D8mo as I wanted to be her father, not a random visitor. She suggested we could meet with a pedagogue before (which she said would agree with her). I told that this was a good idea and we should go for that.
While dropping off D8mo, she told me maybe we could go to a couples therapy before the pedagogue. I got completely surprised so I just blurted out “Why?”. She said never mind, I told her to just give me a minute to think about it and said, “I’m not closed to this.”

I just want to say how much I empathize and sympathize with your situation.  It can be so exhausting to survive day to day life, much less divorce drama.  I am in a similar situation of my wife driving separation only to back off at the last minute and claim I was the one who wanted it.

I have older children, but I would say that your commitment to your daughter shines through.  I would not back off on that point, and I agree that I would immediately reframe demands to as much time as possible.

I don't know the cultural norms for you in Turkey but your child will benefit from as much time as possible with you - to give her a chance to experience life outside the pwBDP's family system.  Good luck!

Thank you! This means a lot!

Currently she is with her parents about 6 hours away.  In the settlement is there any restriction or limit how far away she may reside?  It's hard to be parenting a lot if the ex is more than an hour or two away.  If she has no limits on where she lives, then you can easily end up endlessly moving to catch up with your daughter.

On that thought, unless she is there only temporarily, are you able to move closer to her and find work there so you can be a more involved parent?  (Be aware that she may move away any time you move closer.  How can you address that possibility?)

There is no restriction on the draft. I guess there needs to be. Me moving is a terrible idea. I’m managing a family-owned business, in the biggest city over here, which is why I have a good income. The town she moved is a touristic place, I would be lucky to find a job flipping burgers. She will have a hard time finding a job over there as well. 

Her wanting to limit your time to just 3-4 hours on a visit is totally unreasonable, assuming your culture is similar to other countries.  Almost any divorce court would grant you far more time.  At the least, dads often get at least alternate weekends (my initial temp order was a full 3 days, 72 hours) and an evening or overnight in between.

She may claim, but baby has to be with me virtually all the time since I'm breastfeeding.  Well, millions of nursing mothers are apart form their children for extended periods such as for work, parenting orders, illness and other scenarios.  What do they do?  They express their milk and freeze it in advance to pass it along at exchanges or leave with the babysitter.  Millions do it, she can too.

There are relative limitations until D8mo is 2 years old, 6 years old and 10 years old. But not to this extent. You are absolutely right regarding other comments.

The others are right, if you start with your minimum wishes for custody and parenting, then you will end up with less.  Your disordered spouse (potential stbEx) will surely try to reduce it even more.  A better strategy, it is not bad to detail the parenting schedule you want and even a little bit more, since negotiation means you are likely to walk away with less.

In some areas having an equal parenting time schedule is more common.  For young children the 2-2-3 schedule (or 2-5-5-2) is better since the child is not apart from either parent for more than a few days.  One parent gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent gets Wed-Thu overnights and they alternate Fri-Sat-Sun weekends.

Also, if you do end up with less than equal time, then make sure you get plenty of holidays and vacation time specified in the eventual parenting order.  Be an involved parent, not a sidelined parent.

The distance is the main issue for me I guess. I actually started with 4 days every 2 weeks; guess I gave ground too early. Those schedules are practical impossibilities for me. I offered her full rent and moving expense compensation if she would decide to move back to Istanbul, but she outright refused this. Holidays are 50%, so I guess I’m OK with that part.
I really can’t stand the idea of D8mo being raised in that household. If there was even a 0.01% chance I could get sole custody; I would fight with every fiber of my being.

I don't know your culture, but I'll share what my then-spouse told our mediator as we began our divorce process.  She claimed she had to have our preschooler son since since it was in her culture.  I replied that she grew up in a family where her father raised her brothers while her mother and stepfather raised her and her sister.  So I stated I'd be willing to follow her family's pattern, that I as a father wanted to raise my son.  You can imagine her reaction!

We had been married for over a decade when we had a child.  Clueless me, I had hoped that having a baby would make my spouse happier.  I learned - too late - that having children does not fix serious troubles and issues.  In our case, as I looked back, I had become a father and that reminded her of her problem stepfather.  Ouch!

I noticed you've been together for years but separated soon after the baby arrived.  How did this change her perspective?  Did she have troubling behaviors in prior years?

Father’s getting sole custody is a fluke over here, but I guess that’s how it happens over everywhere. I was not aware of PD’s in general until 2 months ago. I really thought I wasn’t understanding her, her reactions and beliefs were a result of my shortcomings.
Funny story actually, I was on the road to visit D8mo for the third time. During the trips I play random YouTube videos on the background. On this day I was listening to random psychology videos. All of a sudden, some random guy was talking about my marriage for the last 6 years. I was absolutely shocked listening to this guy, so I pulled over at the first gas station to see what was going on. I believe it was Ross Rosenberg, so I delved into the rabbit hole. There were many arguments which I never understood why happened even before we got married. So I started reading/listening to
•   Could Your Spouse Have Borderline Personality Disorder?: Understanding the Roses and Rage of BPD (Roses and Rage BPD) By: Robert Page
•   Stop Walking on Eggshells, Third Edition: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder By: Paul T. Mason MS , Randi Kreger
•   Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissistic Parent By: Margalis Fjelstad , Jean McBride
•   Understanding the Borderline Mother
•   I Hate You - Don't Leave Me: Third Edition: Understanding the Borderline Personality By: Jerold J. Kreisman , Hal Straus
•   Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder By: Bill Eddy , Randi Kreger
•   Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life By: Margalis Fjelstad
•   Loving Someone with Borderline Personality Disorder: How to Keep Out-of-Control Emotions from Destroying Your Relationship By: Shari Y. Manning PhD
•   Deal with Difficult People: Empath and Borderline Personality Disorder: Understand Highly Sensitive People and Control Your Emotions. Manage Depression, BPD, Anger and Panic Attacks By: Alanna Jensen
I believe post-partum might have had a triggering effect. The day of the birth, she told me “During these past few days, I knew I found the right man. You are a great husband and will be a great father.” I can’t think of anything more flattering to hear as a husband. After a week or so, she told me she might need some professional help (we discussed this before birth, regarding post-partum depression), which I immediately arranged. After a session, she decided she didn’t like the therapist. So I found another one. She refused to go the session at the last minute, and I quote, “I know you are all thinking I’m crazy. I’m not crazy. I don’t need help. My mother, your mother, even you, think I’m crazy. All I need is your understanding. I’m not crazy.”

[redlinetheturk]

Oh man, reading this broke my heart! I am so sorry you are going through this!

It seems to me that you are still emotionally attached to her but you are seeing now that this relationship is not healthy for you and your kid, which is a good sign of health. But this emotional attachment you have is playing against you. Your wife knows that you still care for her, and most importantly, you care a lot for your child, and she is using that to make you suffer. So something to consider, is to play a bit and try to delay the divorce and any agreement regarding your child. In the meantime, you work on yourself with your therapist to detach. This will make your position much stronger because she will realize that she can't blackmail you anymore. You started the negotiation by offering a lot which made her demand more. This reflects your inner state of confusion and dependency, on her presence and even on the presence of your child.

I do feel she is trying to make me suffer; even if not, I do suffer. I read, and watch, and listen; looks like this is just a part of the reality that is BPD, but I just can’t accept that she is doing this.

My situation is a bit different that yours because my ex can't take any major life decision concerning our D2 without my signature. For example, she can't move away with her without my agreement, which she would get only on my dead body. And I was the one who left the relationship and started working on myself to detach emotionally from her. Yes, it was and still is a difficult and unstable phase, which is not good for our kid but this is how things are when you deal with a disordered person. My ex has the impression that I could abandon her and my child if needed, which is a fake impression I created just to get an advantage in the negotiation we are having right now concerning custody and visitation time. This is an advice I got from my therapist and until now it is working very well. But you have to consider here that she still has hope that I will come back one day, and as long as I have contact to my child, she can have contact with me. This will go on until she gives up hope, and what she will do next is highly unpredictable. She might fall apart, and I have a full custody, or she might use the child to punish me. But until then, I hope we are going to have a written agreement so she would not have large space to play her dirty games.
I am sorry to say that, but it is really a game you have to play. I understand that you are fully committed to your child, but things are complicated. It is always about limiting her playing field, so you could better predict what she would do next. And this game is not going to end soon. Maybe you have to play it until your kid is an adult.

Best of Luck my friend

I guess I was really not expecting this at the time. She knew how rough my business was going (COVID issues globally, especially Chip shortage hit our business hard, meanwhile our government kept making extremely bad decisions locally). I also had to have a major surgery in a few weeks, which she was partially responsible for, so her decision wrecked me hard. I just concentrated on making the most of little time with D8mo, I never thought strategically. A lesson I never will forget.

This is Parental Alienation (PA). Your time is better spent and you'll be more effective if you read some books on PA. Start with:

- https://www.amazon.com/Alienate-Resilient-Children-Avoiding-Conflict/dp/1936268035
- https://www.amazon.com/High-Conflict-Custody-Battle-Accusations-Alienation/dp/1626250731

Learning about BPD is a time-consuming thought whole.

Thanks for the recommendation, I’ll get those ASAP.
There were a lot of things that I didn’t understand before finding out about BPD. During the divorce speech, one of the reasons she stated made me think she was actually willingly cruelly taunting me: “I grew up in a family with a loveless, unhappy marriage. I don’t want my daughter to grow up in such a marriage.” She then proceeded to take D8mo to that household.

[ForeverDad]

What I really want is to have sole custody, which is unfair to D8mo and impossible for me to get.

This may be hard for you — as it has been for most of us Nice Guys and Nice Gals — but you have to Let Go the concept of what is fair or unfair.  For example, if you feel it is unfair for you to get custody of the baby, then does that mean it is fair for her to get custody?  You fret over fairness, but does your spouse have an iota of concern for you?  No.  Therefore, your otherwise excellent sense of fairness needs to be set aside (or at least under control) when you are dealing with someone who has become very oppositional and wants to sabotage your parenting.

If she gets in charge of parenting, do you think she will treat you nicely?  Yet if you get in charge of parenting, you know you would treat her fairly, right?  See the difference?

This is not to grant you the right to be mean to her, but many here learned that we cannot be generous or "overly fair" until we have gained the most custody and parenting possible.

•   Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder By: Bill Eddy , Randi Kreger

Many of those books help you understand the behaviors and triggers.  Splitting is the best to help you make better strategic decisions and avoid common mistakes and pitfalls during a divorce.

I believe post-partum might have had a triggering effect.

I too wondered whether PPD was a factor in my spouse's behaviors.  She nursed for 16 months and kept me at arms length most of the time.  When she stopped she seemed so much better - for 4 months.  Then she got into a spat with one of our acquaintances and she was right back to her old ways.

Just an idea here, not sure whether it may apply.  Many people with BPD (pwBPD) have to be in a relationship.  A common story told here is that if you've been dumped then she may seek out another relationship.  If that happens then she may be more agreeable to reasonable terms since she would be on the highs of a new relationship.

[ForeverDad]

I guess I was really not expecting this at the time. She knew how rough my business was going (COVID issues globally, especially Chip shortage hit our business hard, meanwhile our government kept making extremely bad decisions locally). I also had to have a major surgery in a few weeks, which she was partially responsible for, so her decision wrecked me hard.

Could she at some level, perhaps unconsciously whether financial or medical, feel she may lose you?  One factor that has been mentioned is the abandonment feeling... could she be abandoning you before you can abandon her?

It's a real conundrum, pwBPD fear abandonment yet by their actions they somehow demand it.

[redlinetheturk]

If she gets in charge of parenting, do you think she will treat you nicely?  Yet if you get in charge of parenting, you know you would treat her fairly, right?  See the difference?

Wow. A simple yet powerful question. This makes sense.

Just an idea here, not sure whether it may apply.  Many people with BPD (pwBPD) have to be in a relationship.  A common story told here is that if you've been dumped then she may seek out another relationship.  If that happens then she may be more agreeable to reasonable terms since she would be on the highs of a new relationship.

I’m really not sure what to think of this

Could she at some level, perhaps unconsciously whether financial or medical, feel she may lose you?  One factor that has been mentioned is the abandonment feeling... could she be abandoning you before you can abandon her?

It's a real conundrum, pwBPD fear abandonment yet by their actions they somehow demand it.

This is very possible. I’ve had sleeve gastrectomy because her parents did not want us getting married due to my weight. I got over it, but they didn’t. The complication developed over a few years which required corrective surgery. The dump happened after a doctor told us there is no way out of the surgery.
So an update: after talking to my therapist, friends and family, I’ve decided to go ahead and try marriage counseling as she offered. It’s due on 16th. I don’t have high expectations, of course.