Possible delusion

[Depression = 72% of members]

There might be something wrong with our fridge, and W is absolutely certain that it's not functioning correctly. I'm not sure, either there is something wrong or she's being delusional. I'd need more time to decide what to believe. It's cold in the fridge but my wife suspects that the cooling is occasionally out of function, yet we have no proof of this.

The problem here is the absolute urgency, she refuses to use the fridge because she cares about our health. She wants the fridge replaced IMMEDIATELY without any investigation, but we rent our apartment and the landlord handles these things. The fridge is only two years old and has a 10 year warranty, I don't know if the seller would take our word for it or send someone to check on it. In that case, I really doubt they would find anything.

Facts:
- a pack of unopened cheese had mold in it despite the due date being in three weeks from now.
- the fridge has had some unusually loud noices for the past month, that sound stopped occurring a few days ago.
- my wife says suspicious statements such as that she has a strange feeling when she opens the fridge and that the food feels warm and swollen.
- I have not noticed the food being warm.
- this same problem happened to her before we lived together and I have never questioned that. Her butter kept getting mold and she bought new packages a few times with the same result before she pushed for replacing the fridge. Seemed like the fridge cooling system only worked when activated by opening the door.

The dilemma for me, do I trust her that somethings wrong and take her side, or do I insist that I'm not sure? If I'm not supportive she will feel very invalidated. I really don't feel like embarrassing myself or her, I've already spoken to the landlord and he will do something about it tomorrow. Telling him "I think there's something wrong with the fridge" won't assure him that he has to replace it. Telling him "it has to be replaced today" feels embarrassing because I don't even think there's something wrong with it...

[15years]

There might be something wrong with our fridge, and W is absolutely certain that it's not functioning correctly. I'm not sure, either there is something wrong or she's being delusional. I'd need more time to decide what to believe. It's cold in the fridge but my wife suspects that the cooling is occasionally out of function, yet we have no proof of this.

The problem here is the absolute urgency, she refuses to use the fridge because she cares about our health. She wants the fridge replaced IMMEDIATELY without any investigation, but we rent our apartment and the landlord handles these things. The fridge is only two years old and has a 10 year warranty, I don't know if the seller would take our word for it or send someone to check on it. In that case, I really doubt they would find anything.

Facts:
- a pack of unopened cheese had mold in it despite the due date being in three weeks from now.
- the fridge has had some unusually loud noices for the past month, that sound stopped occurring a few days ago.
- my wife says suspicious statements such as that she has a strange feeling when she opens the fridge and that the food feels warm and swollen.
- I have not noticed the food being warm.
- this same problem happened to her before we lived together and I have never questioned that. Her butter kept getting mold and she bought new packages a few times with the same result before she pushed for replacing the fridge. Seemed like the fridge cooling system only worked when activated by opening the door.

The dilemma for me, do I trust her that somethings wrong and take her side, or do I insist that I'm not sure? If I'm not supportive she will feel very invalidated. I really don't feel like embarrassing myself or her, I've already spoken to the landlord and he will do something about it tomorrow. Telling him "I think there's something wrong with the fridge" won't assure him that he has to replace it. Telling him "it has to be replaced today" feels embarrassing because I don't even think there's something wrong with it...

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

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[Notwendy]

There are refrigerator thermometers you can buy to check the internal temperature of the fridge. I'd ask the landlord to have it checked out and also buy one of the thermometers so you can see if the fridge is at the right temperature. It may not have to be replaced but possibly repaired.

My BPD mother is like that too. If she feels something isn't perfect, then she wants a new one. I don't think this is delusion. I think it's projection of her own poor sense of self- and poor boundaries. If the fridge is flawed, it's a reflection to her of her being flawed. It's black and white thinking.

We have to be very careful when visiting BPD mother. If the kids had so much as spilled juice on her floor- it's not enough to clean the carpet. To her, it's ruined - and it must be replaced. I don't fix something to eat in her kitchen- if there were to be a scratch on her pan, or some crumbs on the floor, then I have "ruined her kitchen". She also can interpret this personally- as if I ruined her kitchen on purpose.

Your wife's request may be part real, part emotional. It's possible the fridge thermostat needs to be repaired. It may or may not be that it needs to be replaced, but in her mind, if it's defective somehow, she has an emotional need to have it replaced. Ultimately though, that isn't your decision. It's the landlord's. Even if you tell him to replace it, he's not going to discard a refrigerator that works.

So you can validate her feelings ( she may be right about the fridge not working properly ) and say " I will speak to the landlord about it". Then- what to do is going to be up to the landlord, not you. Then also purchase a refrigerator thermometer- I have seen some on Amazon for less than $10 and make sure it's at the right temperature so you can see for yourself.

[15years]

Thanks notwendy for the reality check!

I placed a thermometer in there which shows the highest and lowest temperature since reset. That's as fact based I can get but she's still suspicious and won't use the refrigerator so we took in a small spare refrigerator.

It's stressful when W expects me to "stand up" to the landlord. Not doing that feeds into the theory that I let him push me around. The landlord is indeed a stubborn old man but it's hard to be motivated about this when I know that the urgency is mostly about my wife's emotional response. If the refrigerator would be totally broken, I would be motivated to push for a new refrigerator TODAY.

It's so stressful to have to involve other people in our private life like this. I kind of try to protect her from exposing her illness, but I end up giving a weird impression and send mixed signals. At the same time trying to reach a place where things can get back to "normal".

Any sympathy is welcome  . Has anyone come up with a solution to similar situations?

[zondolit]

Is there a reason she cannot speak directly with the landlord herself instead of going through you? I'd let her handle this herself (unless that means she ruins the household finances by buying a fridge a week or something. . .).

It is hard, but I've stopped worrying so much what other people will think and I find that often 1) they already know more than they've let on and 2) they are sympathetic and want to support me. It feels weird, feeling more connection and understanding with others than my husband, but that's the way it is right now.

[Notwendy]

I don't know a solution. It's part of the distorted thinking and it's not possible to change that. I think it's possible to roll with it if you can ( and can afford to). A small fridge won't break the bank but from what I have read here, sometimes it's a new house or something like that that will.

If it's a projection of what feels "damaged" about themselves, then fixing the external item- the refrigerator, or whatever, is probably a temporary fix.

I think it comes down to boundaries. What is the cost limit of what you can reasonable do when it comes to this kind of thing.

For BPD mother, sometimes obtaining an object is a form of validation for her.

As to protecting her from other people seeing the whole of things, that's a huge part of our family dynamics, and BPD mother can hold it together in public, so people didn't actually see it. At least you are aware of this. Keep in mind though that sometimes the natural consequences of someone's behavior is an important lesson- but protection from harm is also important. If she's going off the wall with the landlord, he may not renew your lease or give a good reference when you move- so you don't want to jeopardize your own well being. But hiding abuse - could be harmful. I think the boundary is - when is protecting her actually protecting all of your family---- or is protecting her causing you or the kids harm? Not an easy or same for everyone answer.

[thankful person]

15 years, I was stunned to read your story… my wife’s exact words today, “the fridge is broken, it needs to be replaced…”

Bearing in mind that we are in temporary accommodation so it is not our fridge, but we are here indefinitely. It is indeed older and smaller than the one we are used to. The problem here is the door seal. The solution imho is to put drink bottles diagonally so they do not get in the way when the door shuts. I have proven my theory but it is impossible to reason with my wife using the laws of physics.

An important thing that has changed in our relationship, is that my wife now does the majority of the research and booking etc when we are going to be staying somewhere. This always made sense because she’s the one who always finds something to complain about, and of course everything was then my fault because I had chosen and booked it. This was despite the fact that she insisted she didn’t want to and wasn’t much interested when I spoke to her about such decisions. Many times I had suggested she took over such decisions.. but she refused. I found that last year, when I framed this as a positive thing rather than coming from a place of frustration… she took me up on taking over from me with such responsibilities.

It’s a bit different because we don’t actually know the landlord. But the fact is, my wife is the one who has the contact details, and therefore it will be her decision as to whether to contact him and what to say. Like not Wendy’s mother, my wife is extremely charming and rarely presents like a crazy person to anyone outside of our family.

I don’t know that there’s nothing wrong with the fridge, but I no longer argue about such things. It is so much easier. I told her my theory about the bottles. She says she doesn’t agree, but what I’ve noticed in the past is that sometimes she will quietly start doing things the way I suggested, if I don’t fuss about it. Anything to avoid saying, “actually you were right about that…” I doubt she will contact the landlord but we’ll see. I don’t expect it’s much help for your situation, just wanted to share my similar story…

[Cat Familiar]

I’d take a much more direct route. We say, “Don’t validate the invalid.”

“I’m not sure what you think is wrong. Looks OK to me, judging by this thermometer.”

Yes, that’s invalidating her perception, but at the same time it’s stating your opinion, backed by facts.

Why would you give any airtime to a delusional belief?

If she wants to confront the landlord, then she can do it herself. You’ve already stated that you think the refrigerator is fine.

[Notwendy]

I agree, we don't invalidate the invalid.

I was going on the assumption that food wasn't keeping well and to check the temperature.

I have noticed that too lately. It's not because of our refrigerator. It hasn't happened often but I've bought some chicken that smelled funny before the sell by date and just noticed a change in some items. I think it might be the recent issues with supply chain, or staffing, or stores maybe cutting some corners due to inflation? For perishables, I try to use them up quickly.

So yes, check the fridge seemed reasonable. Replace it? That's up to the landlord.

[15years]

Now she seems a little calmer, but only because that initial storm has passed. The Landlord has made some calls and the manufacturer says that the problem with the sound could be solved by defrosting the fridge.

Now I have an opportunity here to manipulate the situation. After "defrosting" the fridge (I really doubt this is the problem), maybe she'll split the fridge white again  . There is a chance here that because the landlord has made some efforts to solving this "problem", she now feels heard, and defrosting the refrigerator will serve as a portal between THEN and NOW.

I'm quite sure there's nothing wrong with the temperature, but the sound will keep on being a problem.

If she can just stop worrying about the temperature, with the support of the thermometer, and only has that sound to worry about, I think this issue could become 'less urgent'. Kind of like you are saying here thankful person -->

I told her my theory about the bottles. She says she doesn’t agree, but what I’ve noticed in the past is that sometimes she will quietly start doing things the way I suggested, if I don’t fuss about it. Anything to avoid saying, “actually you were right about that…” I doubt she will contact the landlord but we’ll see. I don’t expect it’s much help for your situation, just wanted to share my similar story…

And thank you for sharing! Funny that we have this same kind of issue. It's quite understandable, because a fridge has a crucial function in a home. Also connected to health, which is a source of constant worry for my wife.

[15years]

Is there a reason she cannot speak directly with the landlord herself instead of going through you? I'd let her handle this herself (unless that means she ruins the household finances by buying a fridge a week or something. . .).

It is hard, but I've stopped worrying so much what other people will think and I find that often 1) they already know more than they've let on and 2) they are sympathetic and want to support me. It feels weird, feeling more connection and understanding with others than my husband, but that's the way it is right now.

I thought about this. I think I hesitate because "I'm the man in this house" and all electronic devises kind of falls under my responsibility. But then again, if I have the responsibility, I shouldn't have to listen to her instructions...

[15years]

“I’m not sure what you think is wrong. Looks OK to me, judging by this thermometer.”

I really wish I would have come up with this response faster :D But maybe I can say this now that the situation has calmed down a little. I guess I'm afraid to be accused of gaslighting. She knows there's something wrong with the fridge and I question her.

Also, she says that her health has been worse the past month and she now claims it's because of the food going bad (but we haven't noticed anything wrong with how the food tastes).

[15years]

So yes, check the fridge seemed reasonable. Replace it? That's up to the landlord.

I think I'll go with that actually. The balance becomes about avoiding to let her paint the landlord all black and me not letting her feel that I'm taking his side.

[Notwendy]

You can't control what she thinks about the landlord. It's his money- his choice.

Karpman triangle may be at play, but you don't have to "rescue" her from landlord's choice by taking her side. Or "rescue" him from being painted black.

Or take his side. (become persecutor)

It's facts- he's not going to replace a working refrigerator. Even if it's under warranty- the manufacturers won't replace a working refrigerator. It's their money too.

[15years]

You can't control what she thinks about the landlord. It's his money- his choice.

Karpman triangle may be at play, but you don't have to "rescue" her from landlord's choice by taking her side. Or "rescue" him from being painted black.

Or take his side. (become persecutor)

It's facts- he's not going to replace a working refrigerator. Even if it's under warranty- the manufacturers won't replace a working refrigerator. It's their money too.

Makes sense. Thanks once again for the help, I think I got this covered now.

[15years]

One more thing though, how do I communicate about this with my soon 6yo. He's always very interested when somethings going on in our home and he totally buys into the idea that the refrigerator is broken, and is engaged in how to solve the problem to some degree. Do I let him believe that or should I tell him my version?

[kells76]

One approach could be the "scientific method" approach:

"Hey buddy, we start out with a hypothesis: we think something is going on. It's OK to think many things are going on.

What's important is that we test it out. Sometimes we can do it ourselves, like buying a thermometer, and sometimes we get someone who is more of an expert to do it. So the landlord might send an appliance repair person and that person, who knows way more about refrigerators than me, mom, or you, will let us know if our hypothesis is right.

This is what real scientists do, isn't that cool!"

That takes it away from being a "is mom right or is dad right" thing and makes it neutral: we just look at the thermometer and record the temperatures, or we sometimes have an expert test it and they let us know what is going on.

[FirstSteps]

I'm glad this is sorted out for you.  My wife does this kind of thing all the time as well.  And it gets complicated with the kids because she is not always wrong (though she is also often wrong).  She is so hypervigilant that she absolutely will pick up on things that we are missing - a bad smell, a broken appliance.

So I learned not to invalidate in this area a long time ago.  I'm not paying attention to the freezer but she is spending hours a day seemingly thinking about how the door doesn't close right.  Of course even when she's right, the level of reaction is way beyond the norm. 

Anyway it definitely has affected my kids, who go back and forth between their own hypervigilance and rolling their eyes. 

I wish I had started using the scientific method years ago!  kells - that's a great idea. 

[15years]

kells,

Good option, since I really don't know if it's fully working or not. Sharing that uncertainty with him would be an honest approach.

FirstSteps,

I'm not sure it's sorted out, but the urgency is out of the picture for me at least, much thanks to the support on this thread.

She is certain that her recent health problems is tied to the fact that there's something going on in the fridge. The health problems is a 'bad feeling in the stomach', 'her waist being less defined than normally' and so on, not sure if it would count as a health problem to be honest!

Similarly, she often has some subtle reaction (swollen eyes that I don't notice for example) that she ascribe to some new make up that she has started using, or some food that she has recently eaten. That doesn't concern me much because it's about her personal reaction to something. But when she starts worrying about something that would affect the whole families health, it disturbs me and the kids lives as well.

So maybe it's some sort of hypervigilance. In my opinion, the body has different reactions all the time, it's normal and there doesn't have to be a reason for it.

[Riv3rW0lf]

She is certain that her recent health problems is tied to the fact that there's something going on in the fridge. The health problems is a 'bad feeling in the stomach', 'her waist being less defined than normally' and so on, not sure if it would count as a health problem to be honest!

Alternatively, she is going through something emotional but has yet to address it rationally.. I am thinking of stress and anxiety, fears... those all show up like a tightness in my stomach, personnally... I don't think we all feel emotions the same way though.

Emotions, as I am currently learning, are physical reactions. They aren't in our brain, they are within our body. Took me a long time to figure that one out... (Hourra for dissociation !)  

But since people with BPD rarely owns their emotions, nor address them (they discharge them uncontrollably and blame us for them, more often than not, meaning there is NO processing done), I don't see why they couldn't blame objects in their house, or the house altogether (hence why my mother would suddenly need to move away and switch houses altogether).

There has to be a physical reason for her physical reaction, right? Wrong, might me an emotion related to her thoughts, but she cannot rationalize it nor accept it, because this would mean owning it.

Also... Since you were on the fence about leaving not too long ago... She does need another "culprit" for her emotions, doesn't she?

I know my mother sensed when she had gone too far with me. She knew right away that she had reached my limit, she just didn't know how all this would backlash (I ended up leaving), and she tried so very hard to be gentle, all of a sudden... Which tells me your wife likely knows you were near your limits not too long ago... This is my reading of the situation anyway, based on my understanding of BPD and experience with my BPD mother, so might be completely off base too.

[15years]

I know my mother sensed when she had gone too far with me. She knew right away that she had reached my limit, she just didn't know how all this would backlash (I ended up leaving), and she tried so very hard to be gentle, all of a sudden... Which tells me your wife likely knows you were near your limits not too long ago... This is my reading of the situation anyway, based on my understanding of BPD and experience with my BPD mother, so might be completely off base too.

You might be right, she is trying to be cooperative, gentle and fairly reasonable right now when we communicate, and to be fair, I do not intend to stir up arguments either so I make it easier for her. I notice the familiar disturbing thought patterns she has but I also notice her trying to control her mood. At the same time, it really seems important for her to communicate her thoughts and feelings, and those thoughts and feelings hasn't changed.

I think I'm in for a calmer period of a few weeks or months, but my guess is when this attempt to leave isn't recent anymore, things will slowly go back to the "normal" chaos.


Meanwhile, we now have two refrigerators in our kitchen, it doesn't seem healthy to me. But at the same time, our original fridge has that loud noise, which isn't normal.

But thanks to this thread, I now feel that I can handle it quite well... At some point though, I need to push for that second refrigerator to move out. Somehow I hope that our refrigerator really needs to be replaced. The trust in the relationship between the refrigerator and my wife is broken!