How to Communicate Unwelcome Information to Friend/ Former Partner with BPD

[drumdog4M]

I was hoping to get some feedback on a situation that is creating stress for me. My pwBPD and I decided several months ago that we could not have a stable romantic relationship with one another and ended things. We have remained friends, which has proven challenging as we each try to begin relationships with other people. We also have many unresolved romantic feelings for one another.

My ex-pwBPD is extremely triggered by any mention of my new relationship (which I understand) and has asked that I not share information about it. She also insists, however, that I am "100% honest" and transparent with, as she has a lot of trust issues.

I'm planning to go on a trip a a few days with the woman I have begun seeing, and feel that I should at least tell her that I will traveling so she isn't surprised by the fact that I'm out of the country or feels hurt / like I withheld my plans from her. The time difference and other factors will make clear I'm abroad and not alone given the frequency of our normal communication.

I would then allow her to ask any questions she would like and be honest in my responses.

Does this seem like an ethical and empathetic way to handle this situation? I want to be honest, not hurt her (though that might be impossible to some degree), and respect her insistence on minimal information about my new relationship.

I apologize if this is a stupid question, but the challenges of trying to navigate a friendship with my ex-pwBPD causes me to second guess all of my normal instincts that have generally served me well in ordinary interpersonal relationships.

Thank you for your insight and patience with me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi drumdog4M, glad you reached out for feedback on this issue.

As you've been here a while, I bet you are familiar with the acronym FOG -- Fear, Obligation, and Guilt. Often those energies are active when interacting with a pwBPD.

Another energy at play is "rules for you but not for me". As BPD has many shame based components, pwBPD often have a desperation to be in the "on top"/
"in power" position and to have others be "below" or "under" in power dynamics.

Am I understanding your situation correctly, that you and your pwBPD are broken up? Or, at least, that is how "normal people" would describe your situation?

I'll be blunt now --

it is not normal to believe that you must tell a romantic ex that you are now going on a trip with a new interest AND then to "allow" her to grill you about it. It's really not.

I have stayed in touch with a former boyfriend (from many years ago). I am married now and he is married now and we both have been for quite some time. At no point after we broke up or through now would we ever have induced the other person to believe that s/he was Obligated to tell the other who s/he was going on trips with.

He did end up going on a trip with his now-wife a little while after we broke up. It would not actually have been empathetic or loving to me if he felt like he had to tell me what he was doing. It was my job to learn to soothe myself and understand the new reality of our interactions, which was that we did not have a relationship where he "had to" tell me intimate details of his life.

It is not loving to her to shield her from taking responsibility from learning to soothe her own feelings. This is not even something you should do in a romantic relationship.

She won't like it when you don't tell her, but the fact that she won't like it is not an indication that you did the wrong thing or were not a caring person. It just means she doesn't like that she doesn't get to control a one-way valve of information.

DH's kids' mom has written some nasty texts about how she "doesn't appreciate not having open communication" etc. This is when I tried to set up counseling for SD14 because she'd indicated to me that Mom's house was not supportive of that. This is also after me spending an entire school year emailing Mom updates on me teaching SD16 math remotely. Literally weekly updates. So we had gone above and beyond with

Guess who is not sending us ANY communication about how SD14's counseling is going.

So with pwBPD, often there are subtexts of FOG -- you're afraid that you're hurtful if you don't do X, you feel obligated to do things on her terms, you'd feel bad if you didn't do X.

And, there are "rules for you but not for me".

Do you really think that she'd be 100% honest with you about what she's up to? I doubt it.

Anyway, food for thought from someone who's been there.

[Cat Familiar]

Totally agree with Kells.

Boundaries are necessary here. Do you want her interfering with your new relationship? That’s what you will be doing if you provide her with access to information about your trip.

How do you imagine you’d feel if your new love interest was keeping in such close touch with her ex?

Time to move on, and let the chips fall where they may. Nothing wrong with remaining *friends* with your ex, but do you tell your other friends intimate details about your plans and what’s going on moment to moment in your new relationship?

[drumdog4M]

Thank you both for your valuable insights. I understand what you're saying, and I am still in the FOG it seems.

You are correct that my ex-pwBPD and I are broken up. We are attempting to maintain a friendship, however. I care for her and do not want to manage her emotions for her. I do want to be honest and empathetic to the extent possible. In part this desire is likely driven from my still being in the FOG, but I also do not want to reinforce her feelings of mistrust. I think I am likely overthinking this based on years of conditioning while we were in a romantic relationship, whereby I am still walking on eggshells.

It seems reasonable to me to inform her (which I have and would tell any friend with whom I regularly communicate) of the fact that I am traveling without providing details or allowing her to grill me about my plans.

If you have any further insights, I would welcome them. I genuinely want to be a good friend and have healthy relationships with the people in my life, including my ex-pwBPD. Thank you again.

[kells76]

I also do not want to reinforce her feelings of mistrust. I think I am likely overthinking this based on years of conditioning while we were in a romantic relationship, whereby I am still walking on eggshells.

That's an interesting thought. What level of impact have you seen your actions/words have on her feelings of mistrust in the past, when you were together? What seemed effective? What seemed not effective? Did there seem to be a relationship between what you did or said, and how she felt?

It seems reasonable to me to inform her (which I have and would tell any friend with whom I regularly communicate) of the fact that I am traveling without providing details or allowing her to grill me about my plans.

This could be too far down the "details" track, but one thought I'm having is that there's a difference between "giving someone a heads up" about you traveling versus you "happening to mention" after the fact that you had traveled.

An example of a normal "heads up" before the fact would be to tell a family member your itinerary if you are traveling overseas, or to tell a housemate that you are hiking for 3 days and to call search & rescue if you aren't back by X time on Y day. Typically, for safety issues. Or, if you are already having coffee with a friend, and the friend asks you "so what are you looking forward to next month", to say "can't wait for my Guatemala trip, I want to see the coast and the mountains, have you ever been?" A normal focus would be on what you will do there, not on with whom you will go.

A not-normal heads up would be to tell an ex "hey, not sure if you knew this, but next month I'm going to Guatemala... just wanted to be totally honest with you".

There is a way that we tell ourselves that "being an open book" is the same as being honest, and that not being totally bared to the world with everything we're doing is "lying" somehow. I don't buy it. There is not a necessary relationship between the degree of detail I tell and my inner orientation towards truth and honesty. For example, if you asked me what I did today, I'd say "I got up, ate breakfast, went to work, and now I'm posting here between projects". Notice I didn't tell you everything, though. I didn't tell you how I got to work, what I ate for breakfast, what socks I'm wearing, when I took a breath, how many times I blinked... so, am I lying to you? It depends on what I'm trying to do, inside myself (i.e. am I actively choosing to lie by omission), and it also depends on what I know about you. Is there something that, if you knew it, you'd use against me? Are you REALLY asking me what I did today, and is that ALL you want to know? Maybe there's something about how I got to work that you really want to use against me ("I can't believe kells76 DRIVES A CAR, what a planet killer, I'm the correct person and kells76 is totally beneath me").

I have to have wisdom to understand that when someone asks me something, it's not only their literal words that are asking me, but it's their... life history, I guess, that is asking me the question, and the question can be more than the literal words that are spoken.

Understanding the question behind the words will help you understand how to answer in a way that has integrity while declining to participate in non-explicit questions.

A more extreme example (though if there is a better one, please let me know): if, back in the day, the Nazis came to your door and asked you "Are you hiding Jews in your house?" and you were, would you be lying if you said No?

You would have to have wisdom and insight to understand the question behind the literal words.

They aren't asking because they're just curious.

They are asking if you have any Jews that you will hand over to them to be murdered.

That is the real question: "Do you have any Jews in your house that we can kill?" And the correct and truthful answer to that is No, I do not have any Jews that you can kill. That is regardless of whether or not they are physically in your home.

I don't mean to use an extreme example just to fling it around, it's just that it is a very stark example of the difference between the questions we ask with our words and the questions behind the words, that we ask with our life trajectories.

Bringing it back to your situation:

I would then allow her to ask any questions she would like and be honest in my responses.

What do you think she would ask with her literal words, and what do you think the "questions behind the words" would be?

[drumdog4M]

Thank you, Kells. This is a very useful thought exercise. I'm still thinking through my answers, but it is focusing me on the distinctions between lying, lying by omission, volunteering too much information, and a normal healthy amount of sharing.

I generally do not struggle with this in my ordinary relationships. In this borderline relationship in the past and since we have been "friends" as I reflect upon it, the expectations for disclosure to my ex-pwBPD seem to have been all over the map, shifting depending on her emotions. Thus, almost any amount of disclosure or non-disclosure could be triggering depending on the nature of the information, the context, and her mood.

Thus, my walking on eggshells. I guess ultimately I need to get to a place where I am comfortable sharing what I would like to share that is consistent with my boundaries (still figuring those out), well-intentioned, and empathetic.

If she doesn't like it, she doesn't like it. I need to increase my tolerance to / detachment from her outbursts or more likely silent treatment if it upsets her. It seems nearly inevitable that her reaction whether I share or don't share any information is going to be negative with some degree of intensity.

I guess this is among the challenges of these relationships, particularly in the wake of sharing a relationship as intimate partners.

I hope our dialogue on this topic is helpful to other forum members trying to navigate boundaries and communication.

Thank you!