Unsure of How To Cope With Breakup

[AdRock]

I'll try to keep this as short as possible since I met her in high school.  I'll call her Eve out of respect to what she is going through.
So I was someone Eve was always interested in but, being shy and kind of dumb with women, I never really knew how or to make a move.  Flashforward to our late 20s when she is getting out of a relationship and rebounding, we reconnect and have this on/off again hook-up situation that I wanted to be actual dating.  By this point, she had become a full-fledged alcoholic and was hooking up with other people.  She eventually got back with her ex and severed all ties with me but we reconnected in our 30s and started talking/hanging out again.  She went out less but would still drink and we would make out on occasion.  This led to a dynamic of not hearing from her for days or weeks but then hearing from her out of the blue until she met her new boyfriend/future husband.  We have strained communication while they are dating until I got involved with someone and she started talking to me more.  I possibly mistook it for genuine concern when she was most likely jealous (I feel the truth might be somewhere inbetween that).  We end up making out again one night when she invites me over and starts venting about what she cannot stand about her boyfriend.  We even got saw each other the next day where she was able to actually start to address her feelings for me.  But her guilt got the better of her and she confessed to her boyfriend and we stopped talking for a year and a half.  They have a child together and end up getting married.  A little before the pandemic, she reaches out and we start talking again and she resumes her flirtation with me one night.  I try not to engage but I end up succumbing.  At this point the pandemic starts and after a month or so of regular conversation, she messages me that she is going to stop bothering me and quit drinking.  About another year or so randomly talking on social media occurs until last fall when we start talking again.  It starts to increase in frequency and we even hang out a few times in secret.  Her unhappiness with her marriage leads her to decide she wants to be with me and leave him.  We end up dating secretly until she does not want to sneak around anymore and tells him she wants a separation.  At this point her drinking has resumed and she is soon falling off the wagon completely (she had been testing herself with it before we started talking again).  She swears up and down how in love with me she is but has an extremely hard time giving me space or acknowledging when she is being too emotionally needy.  A month ago, her behavior shifts dramatically and asks if we can take a break while she works on her life problems.  We try talking still but the tone is so different that I cannot handle the superficial nature of it.  She checks up on me periodically where I call her out on what is up and she says she is trying to quit drinking again.  I email her what I am feeling and she responds a week later saying we should break it off and maybe talk after some time to see where we are both at.
Naturally, most people in my life would tell me I am better off.  But the past several months felt very different considering how we had been in the past.  On the other hand, I am aware of my own struggles with depression and codependency which I know has played a factor into my current situation of heartbreak.  Based on our history, I would be very surprised if she is done forever with me.  I told her I support her decision and her need for space but I cannot for the life of me fathom whether to even believe she actually cares about me or if I have just allowed her to take me for granted and fill whatever role she desires in the moment.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi AdRock, welcome to the group. This is a good place to work through emotionally intense relationships, and it sounds like that's what you've had, off and on, with her.

I'm reading a lot about what she might or might not want.

And, I see that back in your late 20s, you did want an actual dating relationship with her (not just hooking up).

What about you now? What do you want?

[AdRock]

In a perfect world, I would like for us to be in a better place to try again if she and her husband split for good.  That would require me continuing my own mental health treatments and, ideally, I would like her to do the same.  Whether that is part of what she is doing now to improve herself, I could only speculate.  From what I have read, my greatest fear is that her feelings for me were not genuine and she unintentionally hurt me.  That is a bit much for me to process at the moment.

[kells76]

You're right that there's a lot to unpack here:

In a perfect world, I would like for us to be in a better place to try again if she and her husband split for good.  That would require me continuing my own mental health treatments and, ideally, I would like her to do the same.  Whether that is part of what she is doing now to improve herself, I could only speculate.  From what I have read, my greatest fear is that her feelings for me were not genuine and she unintentionally hurt me.

It's good that you recognize that working on yourself is the only thing you really have control over.

So there are a few "threads" associated with that, that I can see.

One is what you mentioned -- general work on your own issues. Can I ask, are you seeing a therapist/counselor right now? If so, how is that going?

Two is the specific content of fearing that her feelings for you weren't genuine. Seems like there is a lot there for you. A big question would be: what does the "genuineness" or not of her feelings mean to you? I wonder if it hits something really personal, like "my worth is connected"...?

Three is a bigger picture question. You've observed her actions, priorities, communication, and relational style for... at least over 10 years, correct? Probably longer? Based on all that past data (and for someone on these boards, you have a lot of data), what do you think would likely happen if you were to get together?

And I guess there is a #4 that just hit me, and I don't know quite how to phrase it, but is it accurate to say that there is something that you "want to try" or "want to find out" with her, that is hard to let go of and move on from? You've been off and on for a long time. I wonder what is keeping you really interested in her specifically.

Thoughts?

[AdRock]

I am seeing a counselor and on antidepressants.  I am trying to work the process but my biggest personal struggle is a long term goal to work on that I believe would bring me some contentment with my life.  That is tied into my own struggles with depression.
In terms of why it matters to me whether her feelings for me are real or not, is because I know she is capable of love.  She is an amazing mother from what I have witnessed.  She has a lot to admire about her, her work ethic, her affection for her family and friends, her recognition of her inner demons.  She has been through a tremendous amount of trauma in her life and I admire and am proud of the person she turned out to be.
And if we were to end up together down the road, I honestly do not know.  Part of that is because, I believe she actually is trying to get better.  No contact has really been on her end and, for now anyway, she is not posting much on social media so it appears she is genuinely trying to improve herself.  Which, makes it harder for me, because there is a part of me that feels that one of the best things for her to be content with her life is to not have me in it.
And is there something I want to try with her?  Yes, simply, I want to try a relationship with her.  It was a bad idea to try it before she even told her husband she wanted a separation and we should have waited until she made the moves to do so.  But we were both impatient and, even in spite of the situation, it was the closest we had to trying it together.  I feel like we are two people who understand each other and people live with mental illness and find companionship and work through their issues.  I truly believe that if we both wanted it, we could make it work.
But if she does not want it now or ever, I do not know how to walk away from that.

[kells76]

Hey AdRock, good to hear back from you. Glad to learn you're seeing a counselor. The more support we have when there's someone in our lives with BPD, the better. It's a long haul for sure.

In terms of why it matters to me whether her feelings for me are real or not, is because I know she is capable of love.

That's a really interesting way of answering the question. Can you tell me a little more about how your perspective that she is capable of love, connects to why it matters whether her feelings for you were real? I think I get it but am interested to hear more about how you connect those ideas.

I feel like we are two people who understand each other

people live with mental illness and find companionship and work through their issues.

I truly believe that if we both wanted it, we could make it work.

It's good that you're getting your desires and beliefs out on paper. Figuring out what you want, what you think, and what you hope for, can help you make wise choices. You mention noticing that others with mental illnesses are able to have relationships, so I'm curious if you've seen this article, which is about BPD specifically in relationships (vs mental illness in general):

https://bpdfamily.com/content/what-does-it-take-be-relationship

What are your thoughts after reading that?

I also want to re-acknowledge one of your original questions, which was

I cannot for the life of me fathom whether to even believe she actually cares about me

It's such a huge question, and you're not alone in wondering. It'd be interesting to know if any of this rings true to you:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=68978.0

[AdRock]

Good to be talking it out with you kells76.

I suppose in my mind it is simple that I am in love with her.  And if she is truly in love with me, why we could not continue working on a life together even in screwed up circumstances.  But now, because I believe her love for her child outweighs all else (and it should naturally) and makes her want to get better, I am left feeling like something she sees as toxic to her mental health.

My thoughts after the article remind me to respect her desire to not talk to me for a while and she should rely on her family and friends for support.  If I had a family member like her, I would know what I would recommend she do but I can only work on myself.

A lot from that old board rang very true for me.  It is difficult to accept the idea that not only someone we loved has left but wondering if what they said was even true or merely what they thought to be true at the time.

[kells76]

I suppose in my mind it is simple that I am in love with her.  And if she is truly in love with me, why we could not continue working on a life together even in screwed up circumstances.

Again, it's really good that you're working to articulate what draws you to her and what you believe about the possibilities.

I know you're posting on the "Bettering" board so the fact that the next link is from "Detaching" isn't me making any kind of comment about what you should or should not do, it's just that is where the link lives. Just to be clear! I think it can still apply to you as you're assessing where you're at, what situation you're in, what you want, and what seems feasible. It's "Lesson 2" about understanding the dynamics in your relationship. On Detaching it's described as "To understand more relationship dynamics when the relationship is failing" though for you, substitute "ambiguous" or "undefined" for "failing" instead.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.msg1331264#msg1331264

Mostly it was #4 that came to mind when you shared your thoughts on being in love with her and if she's in love with you, why wouldn't it work okay.

Again, none of this is to "tell you to stick with her" or "tell you to give up". There are members here who have made long term relationships with a BPD partner work (you can look up members "formflier" and "thankful person" to see how they have approached things). It's more to present a lot of "both this, and that" info, so you have some stuff to reflect on as you decide what you want.

...

I am left feeling like something she sees as toxic to her mental health.

This sounds pretty common. I wonder if it is "splitting" type behavior, which you can read about here:

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=62033.0

Often, people struggling with BPD and BPD type behaviors will engage in "splitting", which means it's really difficult for them to hold a nuanced, "both black and white" view of others, everyone from celebrities to politicians to the garbage truck driver to romantic partners. It is possible she is managing her emotions by "splitting" you, sometimes called "painting [you] black" :

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=94786.0

...

My thoughts after the article remind me to respect her desire to not talk to me for a while

That sounds really wise. Often, people who want to better a relationship with a pwBPD feel an urgent need to "tell them how you're feeling" etc, and that can override what the pwBPD has communicated. Respecting that desire to be left alone, however well or poorly she communicated it, is a smarter move to make right now.

If I had a family member like her, I would know what I would recommend she do but I can only work on myself.

Yes, that's also a really important insight you had. It's normal and commendable to want loved ones to seek help, but they can only do that for themselves, and everyone's "rock bottom" is different. In addition to respecting her desire to be left alone, another smarter move to make right now is what you said -- to work on yourself, to make yourself the best, healthiest version of you that you can. If there's ever a time in the future when you and her being together is possible, you will need to be what's called around here the "emotional leader", and that won't be possible if you haven't put in the work on yourself.

...

It is difficult to accept the idea that not only someone we loved has left but wondering if what they said was even true or merely what they thought to be true at the time.

Absolutely. One way I've heard it described is that the feelings a pwBPD has are true in the moment, that is, they genuinely feel those feelings are true, and aren't pretending. One of the sad and challenging parts of BPD is that it is a disorder of harmfully intense, rapidly changing emotions, and the pwBPD believes all those emotions to be genuine, even as they rapidly change.

One area that that can really hit us that hurts, is a sense of wondering if we are worthy of love, and if the pwBPD loved the real us. Curious if any of that seems applicable.

...

Lots more links, I know, so I'll wrap it up there and wait to hear more of your thoughts.

[AdRock]

My therapist made a lot of the points you are making.  That basically, when she says she loves me, she does mean it in that moment.  From my vantage point, I would say the hardest thing is that moment is not a determined amount of time.  It could stretch for days weeks months but she is feeling it and feeling it intensely.  What concerns me, something else he told me, is that she will most likely come back at some point.  Granted, there is the part of me that wishes for that daily but I fear it what capacity she will come back or what she will be hoping for.  There is also the other fear that if she does get better, she will not come back, leaving me to feel like she might view me as something that is bad for her.

[AdRock]

One thing I realized today from reading more about it, my ex did not paint me black.  In fact, when she ended things she was up front about her needs and wants at the moment but she thanked me for always being there for her and supporting her and told me she loves me.  It makes it that much harder for me to be honest, since I do genuinely want what is best for her.  I know for her that is making sure her daughter is healthy and happy but it just makes it harder for me focusing on myself.