Newly married husband split for three months

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi all. TLDR on my situation: married for 5 months, together for 4.5 years. He's the kindest most thoughtful person ever but I suspect he had quiet Bpd.. He was triggered by something I said, split and ignored me for a month. I chose to go on a two week vacation we planned and he didn't come. He raged and blamed me for him losing his vacation and threatened divorce and me to move out. I came back home, after two weeks we talked and had a heart to heart.m. We had two good days together before he got triggered into another split. That month was relatively ok and we were actually hanging out still and speaking, but then yesterday happened.

I needed validation and asked him a few questions about us, but his mood seemed off. Long story short I ended up sobbing and he ended up upset at me. Later he sent rage messages blaming me for ruining his day. Last night I went to bed and he had taken all the blankets. I went to get a small blanket and came back to the bedroom and naturally went to grab my pillow on the bed. I didn't know it was his pillow, so I accidentally gently took it away from him who was sleeping on it. Turns out my pillow was on the floor.

He went to the living room. Since then he's pulled the blanket off of me twice, sent me a mean message, and called me dumb and kept turning my fan up to bother me. As I left he grabbed the blankets I brought him and threw them at me. He opened the curtains a few hours later.

During our talk, he was so apologetic and he can't believe he did those things. I believe him. But now I'm just not sure I can take this anymore. He's been split for 3 months. I feel guilty for even thinking about separating because we just made vows.

I don't know what to do. We just got married and I'm in a situation where I'm waiting for my residence permit as I'm in a foreign country. So if I go back home, I'm not allowed to come back until my residence permit is approved. But if I do that then we're probably broken up forever. I haven't made a decision but I'm trying to walk myself through all possible plans. I'm also supposed to pay rent for the rest of the year and I can't bring myself to just dump that all on him. I could also just stick it out and see what happens. Does anyone have helpful advise or experienced something similar?

[bluebutterflies]

Hi all. TLDR on my situation: married for 5 months, together for 4.5 years. He's the kindest most thoughtful person ever but I suspect he had quiet Bpd.. He was triggered by something I said, split and ignored me for a month. I chose to go on a two week vacation we planned and he didn't come. He raged and blamed me for him losing his vacation and threatened divorce and me to move out. I came back home, after two weeks we talked and had a heart to heart.m. We had two good days together before he got triggered into another split. That month was relatively ok and we were actually hanging out still and speaking, but then yesterday happened.

I needed validation and asked him a few questions about us, but his mood seemed off. Long story short I ended up sobbing and he ended up upset at me. Later he sent rage messages blaming me for ruining his day. Last night I went to bed and he had taken all the blankets. I went to get a small blanket and came back to the bedroom and naturally went to grab my pillow on the bed. I didn't know it was his pillow, so I accidentally gently took it away from him who was sleeping on it. Turns out my pillow was on the floor.

He went to the living room. Since then he's pulled the blanket off of me twice, sent me a mean message, and called me dumb and kept turning my fan up to bother me. As I left he grabbed the blankets I brought him and threw them at me. He opened the curtains a few hours later.

During our talk, he was so apologetic and he can't believe he did those things. I believe him. But now I'm just not sure I can take this anymore. He's been split for 3 months. I feel guilty for even thinking about separating because we just made vows.

I don't know what to do. We just got married and I'm in a situation where I'm waiting for my residence permit as I'm in a foreign country. So if I go back home, I'm not allowed to come back until my residence permit is approved. But if I do that then we're probably broken up forever. I haven't made a decision but I'm trying to walk myself through all possible plans. I'm also supposed to pay rent for the rest of the year and I can't bring myself to just dump that all on him. I could also just stick it out and see what happens. Does anyone have helpful advise or experienced something similar?

[ForeverDad]

We want to welcome you here.   Though it is distressing that it is for very serious problems.  We can help to walk you through the education needed to understand BPD and how to gain skills and tools to improve communication.

I suspect that the change from manageable 4 years relationship before marriage to the distressing post-marriage behaviors has a major factor, though surely there are other factors as well.  We often refer to BPD F.O.G... Fear, Obligation, Guilt.  I will focus on Obligation here.

What changed when you got married?  You entered into an obligated relationship — it's not easy to back out of a marriage or to unwind one.  It is good that you are addressing the poor behaviors before you are married for many years or before you start having children.  (Having children vastly complicates ending a marriage.)

So now he feels you're obligated to stick with him.  In a manner of speaking, he feels free to let his rages, moods and triggers loose onto you.

Does that seem to be what happened?

[bluebutterflies]

Thank you so much ForeverDad, I really appreciate it.

For more context, he's sent me aggressive/abusive texts a handful of time when I was on vacation, and a few days ago when he got upset by me trying to have a conversation with him. In general, our entire relationship has been aggression/rage-free, really except for last night.

It's interesting because got married at a courthouse for me to get a residence permit to live in this country with him. Though we are still married and happily call each other husband/wife, it doesn't feel as serious as if we were to do a wedding (which we'd love to one day). The first two months of marriage were great actually!

I'm finding it hard to believe that he is now "releasing" his actual self to me. In our 4.5 years of being together, after every split he's been so apologetic, we talk them through very seriously, and I learn a little more about him every time. It's been a journey but he's always maintained to be the best person I know. Hence why last night felt so scary. Even a month ago when we had our heart-to-heart, he said that he could not live like this anymore and this experience was a wake up call for him to truly get help.

So, in a way I feel like I need more evidence. I want to be 100% sure I am walking away for the right reasons, because even though our marriage was for me to live with him, I still take it seriously. Additionally, I want my 5k deposit on the apartment back haha!

[Notwendy]

I want to echo Forever Dad's suggestion about commitment giving him the feeling that he can show more of the side he often doesn't show to people. The behaviors of BPD are most prominent with the most intimate relationships. It can be confusing to see that they can be composed and charming with acquaintances and different with immediate family. Their fears and insecurities are more apt to be higher with the people closest to them. It's sad because those of us who are close to them also care about them the most, but the relationship is more difficult.

So even if the two of you were together, marriage is a step closer and a larger commitment. I also think on another thread that you mentioned the two of you were long distant for part of it? Even if it seemed fine, an LDR is much less of an emotional demand for them than living together on a daily basis. They can hold it together for a specific time better than every day.

I don't have all the answers but I think there are two situations. One is dating and the other is marriage. It may be that dating worked but whether or not marriage works is another question that you will need to work out for yourself.

[ForeverDad]

In our 4.5 years of being together, after every split he's been so apologetic, we talk them through very seriously, and I learn a little more about him every time. It's been a journey but he's always maintained to be the best person I know.

So you did have a rocky relationship.  It's one thing to have arguments, another to call it quits, multiple times.  The clues were there but didn't make the impact, until now.

[bluebutterflies]

We have never broken up. When I say split, I mean splitting, as in every time he suddenly paints me black and devalues me, or even devalues himself. Otherwise the relationship has been very loving, thoughtful, and really the best relationship I could imagine. When he did have his splits, they were inwards (ie, ignoring me), we always talked through them, how to go from here. I have never imagined not being with him because of how well our relationship has been. I understand this can be hard to imagine, but it is why I am so shocked at the last few months.

Nice to see you again NotWendy, though unfortunately at the "Conflicted" boards now. I am deeply confused because him during a split doesn't feel like "another side to him.". It just feels like an uncontrollable tantrum during a triggered and emotionally dysregulated state. Of course he masks when he goes out and work, and unmasks when he gets home. But this clearly isn't who he is, because when he gets out of his split he's in shock. He can't remember everything, and he's in disbelief he ever did anything. I agree that the LDR was less intensive, and yes we were together majority of it. We've just however lived together for many times, 3 months at at time. I guess that's different than moving in together and getting married.

To be quite honest, I'm very upset at myself. I know it's an irrational feeling. He clearly told me that he needed space and time to heal. He clearly told me that he was scared of blowing up and breaking up with me in the process, something he is clear he does not want. Yet I still pushed him and tried to have that conversation with him. Now he's blown up still.

[ForeverDad]

We have never broken up. When I say split, I mean splitting, as in every time he suddenly paints me black and devalues me, or even devalues himself.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were referring to that other meaning of "splitting".

I am deeply confused because him during a split doesn't feel like "another side to him.". It just feels like an uncontrollable tantrum during a triggered and emotionally dysregulated state. Of course he masks when he goes out and work, and unmasks when he gets home. But this clearly isn't who he is, because when he gets out of his split he's in shock. He can't remember everything, and he's in disbelief he ever did anything.

This isn't him when he's triggered and emotionally dysregulated?  I would venture he is both sides, the normal side and  the dysregulated.  He's not two people.  This is him.

Many husbands arrive here and say, "My wife is a great mother but she has all these poor behaviors, etc."  I'm not explaining this well, hopefully someone will expand on this.

[Notwendy]

It is who he is. When he splits, he's actually split the part of him he's ashamed of- and presents the part he thinks people need to see. His fear though, is that if they saw the part he's ashamed of, they'd reject him. The bond of marriage somehow lessens this inhibition. He still is afraid of abandonment, it's just not as easy for you to do that.

Not remembering doesn't mean it's not him. It means that part of him causes so much shame, he's developed ways to keep it out of his consciousness. My BPD mother does this. Now some things she does remember, some she doesn't, and some she doesn't admit to. Dysregulating serves a purpose for her. It allows her to let out all the uncomfortable feelings she has without her feeling more guilt and shame for what she does. It also serves to "reset" for her. She's often nicer when she comes out of a dysregulation as she's released her uncomfortable emotions. For the targets though (her immediate family )- it doesn't feel better.

Ironically, when you only love the good part of him, and consider the other part "not him" it confirms his feelings of needing to reject that side of him. It doesn't mean you can change him. You can't do that. It doesn't mean you accept his abusive behavior. It does mean you need to accept reality. He's his good side, he's the other side too.

Can he do better? Possibly, but he needs to want to work on it and be consistent with it. Can you manage the situation? That becomes up to you. On your part, you can become less reactive to his dysregulations- less JADE perhaps and see if that tones down the drama between you. But you can only work on your part of this. You might want to buy a blanket and a spare pillow for yourself to keep on hand if he resorts to taking them.

[EZEarache]

But this clearly isn't who he is, because when he gets out of his split he's in shock. He can't remember everything, and he's in disbelief he ever did anything.

I used to be in arguments with my coparent with BPD and she honestly didn't comprehend how any of her behavior was inappropriate while it was happening. I remember one time she was blame shifting me and I responded, "Oh and you've been a perfect angel in all of this." She looked at me completely confused with tears in her eyes saying, "yes." The look she gave me read, "How could you be so cruel." She had no comprehension of what all she had done to push my buttons to get us to the point where I exploded. I could see she really didn't understand that what she was saying was inflammatory. I felt really bad for her, and actually felt guilty myself. I don't even remember what she did to push the fight to that level at this point, but the distressed look she had on her face will be imprinted on my mind forever.

To be quite honest, I'm very upset at myself. I know it's an irrational feeling. He clearly told me that he needed space and time to heal. He clearly told me that he was scared of blowing up and breaking up with me in the process, something he is clear he does not want. Yet I still pushed him and tried to have that conversation with him. Now he's blown up still.

You have a right to your feelings as much as he has a right to his.

It took me many months to get passed the guilt stage. Be careful with guilt. Guilt is depression's younger sibling. It can grow up to be depression, as well. I know from experience. Guilt is what put me in the position that I am in today. If hadn't been for guilt I wouldn't still be posting on this board.

You should be compassionate, validating and empathetic, but not at the price of your own well being and happiness, in my opinion.

Definitely look into Fear Obligation Guilt (FOG) and see what applies in your situation.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Bluebutterflies-

In reading through the entirety of your other initial post re: the google suggestion you made to your H, your solo vacation - it seemed you were referring initially to his “split” as an extended period of ST (Silent Treatment).  And then once you were on that vacation alone (because he refused to join you), his “split” morphed into sending you periodic non-violent rage texts, basically accusing you of taking away his vacation; and then he accelerated toward divorce threats. 

Would the above be sort of a correct read of that thread on my part?

Thanks,
Gemsforeyes

[bluebutterflies]

Ahh I see now. I remember you (NotWendy) or someone else telling me that I cannot separate the bpd from the person. I am clearly still a bit in denial about the fact that his split is still who he is. It is difficult to reconcile—when he tells me sobbing that he can't believe he hurt me, vs the person who does hurt me. He's told me that he meant the rage mean messages when he sent them, but  regrets everything now and doesn't mean it. Now I have to accept that he had the intention of hurting me. It's like the childish tantrums you mentioned.

During our heart-to-heart, he told me that this experience was a wake-up call for him and he needs help. We both agree that what we did previously to move forward (heart-to-heart, going back to normal, then getting triggered because he didn't fully heal) wasn't ideal. What do you all recommend we can do once he is able to communicate again, that has worked for you or others? He was very earnest in saying he is searching for a pyschiatrist (he means therapy but here they mix up the terms a lot) and I am trying not to be too excited. I have already told him I will not have kids with him until his mental health is sorted, so I am wondering if I need to set other boundaries, like "We must divorce if this goes on for another year" but I don't know if that is too much of a stressor. I haven't told him of my suspicions of quiet bpd. I could suggest going to get a diagnosis?

Otherwise, I have given myself the boundary of waiting this out until end of the year to re-assess. Our lease ends Dec 31st so I would like to A) Get my 5k deposit back B) He will be forced to question our relationship, if we are to continue living together, etc. My other boundary is that if he hits me, I'm done. I will continue my best to try not to JADE, not be reactive like you (NotWendy) mention. Last night was fine, we were able to sleep in the same bed as usual.

@EZEarache I relate to and empathise a lot with your experience. It's always difficult to really paint our experiences to others. I will never forget the time my husband spoke to me in a voice that felt like it was from his soul, saying "I thought you abandoned me" while crying. Doesn't change what happened, but I will truly never forget it and it will always make me tear up. I will try my best not to let the guilt consume me.

@Gemsforeyes Thank you for reading through that post. Your perception is correct! I'm generalising now and saying he is split for 3 months, but between from April 22 to today (July 19) he had 2 days of being non-split. These aren't clinical terms, but it's just a way for me to share the gist of his state of beings:

full split = silent treatment, cannot look at me
semi-split = withdrawn but talking to me, but still emotionally dysregulated. he can look at me in the eyes
non or un-split = him being "normal" and emotionally regulated.

[Notwendy]

I mentioned before in your previous thread that you do have the ability to follow through on your boundaries. Keep in mind that boundaries reflect us- our values, what we can tolerate. They are not there to control the other person. They form our decision of what to do if our boundary is crossed.

Taken in a less emotional context. Why do we lock our front doors? The main reason is to keep those who are inside safe. That value is the boundary "I choose to keep myself and my loved ones safe". They don't stop someone from trying to break in. We can't control someone else's behavior. Now if someone were to break in, our boundary "keep safe" will mean we call the police, etc.


So some of your boundaries:

" If he hurts you physically you are out". Good. It doesn't mean he won't do it, it means you won't tolerate it and you will leave. The value "you choose a relationship where you are safe" and you will act on it if you need to.

Your boundaries for him getting help need to be similar. You can not control if he seeks help or is able to make progress. Part of this is his own motivation. If he's motivated only because you will leave, then it's not likely to work. If he's truly motivated on changing his behaviors because he realizes they aren't who he wants to be, maybe it will. But you can't control that.

I think it's reasonable to not break your lease. It also gives you some time to figure things out. Realistically, you will need to decide before the lease is up so you have time to find another place to live, job, etc in your home country or where you are.

You could come up with some goals and then your own assessment of how you feel.

For instance- he needs to have found a therapist and work with them on a regular basis and- you ( and you don't have to share this one )- need to assess your own feelings about if you want to continue the relationship. There isn't a quick solution to this. You can decide what you want in a marriage.

The boundary- not having kids for now- a good one. It's a lot harder to end a marriage with kids involved, especially when the parents may be living in two different countries.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi bluebutterflies-

@NotWendy and other very experienced members are giving you very good insight both here and in your initial thread.  It’s very clear when a new member is dedicated to understanding their partner and the “why’s” of hurtful behaviors.  And these behaviors are extremely hurtful and confusing.  And if you’re not cautious, they can be damaging to you. 

Pretty much all of us who are here came here at what was likely near the lowest emotional points of our lives.  Enough on that.

You have suspected that your H has BPD.  This is who he is.  All of it.  This is hard to say my friend and I’m sorry - but your H has essentially given you the Silent Treatment for 3 months now.  That is a form of coercive control.  It is a form of emotional abuse and manipulation.  It is an effort to get you to change something about yourself or the way you’re behaving - without communicating WHAT that something is. And during those three months, did he also withdraw affection and comfort from you?  I am so sorry to ask.  There is a lot to ST.

So if he is personally willing and actively seeking out therapy for himself, this is a primary area he needs to address... how to communicate effectively with his wife when he is hurt.  Just like we have to truly own up to it when we strike deeply with our words.  Because if he doesn’t and you stay, you have only seen the tip of this iceberg.

Please know, I don’t want to discourage you, though my words may seem to indicate otherwise.  If my ex had tried therapy at all, I would likely have stayed.

Love is wonderful and necessary for these relationships.  But you cannot love your partner to wellness.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[bluebutterflies]

I went to an in person therapist today. I'm not sure if he fully understood the situation, but he mentioned that my H saying he's looking for a psychiatrist could be a manipulation tactic to get me to stay. I still have a hard time seeing my H as manipulative—his past behavior hasn't shown so (except for the antagonizing blanket pulling).

@Gemforeyes, you also mention that my H is giving me Silent Treatment. His splits range from absolute ignoring to being able to handle conversations. Majority of the time he is able to respond, with "yes" or "no"—which is where he is right now. Does that count as Silent Treatment? My understanding was that he didn't know how to deal with his emotions so he's imploding and avoiding me. However, I know that he masks and he is able to have conversations with people at work, he just doesn't want to talk to me (he said this a week ago when we were able to talk).

Some days I just want to go home and never look back. I'm just tired. I don't feel quite discouraged, I just feel at a standstill with what decision to make because I am tired of feeling pain. But I don't feel ready to just leave, as much as I want to. I'm not sure if I should get his parents involved. They know we are in a rocky place and they have told me he's been like this since he was a child (adopted). He has told me he doesn't like worrying his parents. Thoughts on this?

[livednlearned]

My other boundary is that if he hits me, I'm done.

That's a good boundary to have. Remember, too, that there are a lot of abusive behaviors that don't involve hitting, that can be equally abusive, if not more so. Your husband may understand the line he cannot cross ( no hitting ) while raging at you in other ways that can take a cumulatively bigger toll.

My ex husband did similar things around bedtime that you describe. I've heard it called midnight frenzies -- getting worked up before bed is probably connected in some way to abandonment issues. He senses that you are pulling away to focus on something more important to you than him: sleep. 

n/BPDx would turn the lights on, throw pillows at my head, pull the sheets off the bed, play loud music. Nighttime was always the worst. He regressed to his most emotionally immature age.

You may represent mean mommy at these times and he is in full angry child mode.

Your husband has special needs and your marriage will be shaped by that. It takes tremendous strength to not be emotionally injured. As important as it may be for him to get treatment, just as important will be your own mental health. These are not typical relationships. You will be his caretaker more than vice versa, and you will have to develop a titanium backbone so that your needs are not subsumed.

It may be a good sign that he has tender cycles and some clarity that he acted badly. The key will be not in what he says, but what he does. Actions matter a lot in these relationships and that goes for us just as much as them.

With my ex, I learned to view silent treatments as a time out he needed to take. It was still painful but I began to see them as a return to baseline. It takes longer to do that with BPD. They are quick to trigger and slow to recover.

With verbal abuse, I learned that he was often in child mode during these spells and if I simply held up my hand and repeated NO or STOP, he could be dialed down to muttering. When you've been split black, it is hard to not take things personally. We often talk here about not getting on the roller coaster with them in spite of their insistence. Translating that into action in the heat of conflict can be a bit tricky -- so much is in the details. You'll have to figure out what works and what doesn't for your specific relationship and your values, which will become the source of your most precious boundaries.

Without those values, without boundaries, the relationship will devolve into insanity.

Knowing that he is splitting is huge, and accepting that he has a serious mental disorder is key. Finding a therapist is important, but so is reading. I think for me one or the other would not have worked. I had to customize therapy to the specifics of what was happening in BPD terms, first with my ex, then with my adult stepdaughter (also BPD).

And of course, this board.

You will need a lot of support and empathy and validation, and there is plenty of that here. 

[ForeverDad]

I went to an in person therapist today. I'm not sure if he fully understood the situation, but he mentioned that my H saying he's looking for a psychiatrist could be a manipulation tactic to get me to stay.

That's a keen observation.  He's been looking for a psychiatrist three months and he still hasn't found one?  Is he looking?  How much time does he need?  Six months?  And if the first one isn't a good fit for him, how many therapists before you realize there are too many coincidental delays with essentially nothing accomplished?

My ex husband did similar things around bedtime that you describe. I've heard it called midnight frenzies -- getting worked up before bed is probably connected in some way to abandonment issues. He senses that you are pulling away to focus on something more important to you than him: sleep. 

n/BPDx would turn the lights on, throw pillows at my head, pull the sheets off the bed, play loud music. Nighttime was always the worst. He regressed to his most emotionally immature age.

My spouse too would build her rants and rages to a crescendo late at night.  More than once she exclaimed we would fix it That Night or no sleep.  I would beg her that I needed sleep to go to work the next morning.  There was no reasoning with her, I look back and those were probably dissociative episodes when she was consumed by her alternative zone.

She wasn't always this way, the early years had some periodic, um, episodes.  But over time they did worsen.  (That is what everyone reports... the poor behaviors get worse over time.)  Then we had a child and it was like going over a cliff.  And divorcing with a child was so vastly worse than if we had divorced childless and gone our separate ways.

While we are remote and anonymous and of course cannot diagnose, we have a vast store of collective wisdom.  You've reported a number of concerning behavior patterns.  One advantage for you is that you're at the start of your marriage.  You haven't been married for 5 or 10 years, have a few children, are at your wits end and only now learn about BPD and the other acting-out PDs.  So many of us were clueless, became invested with children and mortgages and didn't find our ways here to get educated until later in life where extricating ourselves was a monumental hurdle.

You are at an earlier stage in life where you can take a step back, educate yourself, decide for yourself whether these problems that have arisen are merely serious or, worse, overall insurmountable.

[Notwendy]

Silent treatment has also been referred to as stonewalling. Regardless of the reason for doing it, stonewalling has a damaging effect on relationships.

I think people have an idea that manipulation means someone is deliberately doing it. As if your H says to himself " I am going to pretend to find a psychiatrist in order to keep my wife here". That may not be the case, but it still can be a manipulation- driven emotionally for him.

Another thing to consider is - would therapy be effective? You may not be able to know that yet, but for it to be effective, he, himself, would need to be motivated to work with a psychiatrist. They can't read minds- if their patient won't share the kind of information they need to help them, their ability to help is limited. Your H needs to be motivated himself to find one and to work with them. If he's not showing motivation to seek one out- then one has to wonder how motivated he is to work on himself.

You are at an earlier stage in life where you can take a step back, educate yourself, decide for yourself whether these problems that have arisen are merely serious or, worse, overall insurmountable.

This is something to consider. Yes - marriage is not something to be considered lightly. Breaking a marriage is a big deal no matter what. However, it is a much more complicated issue when there are children, and joint assets. Age is also a consideration- people have different circumstances at different ages. This is why we don't post "leave" or "stay" messages- each situation is unique and one can't make these kinds of suggestions for anyone else.

However, you can assess yours and decide.

[bluebutterflies]

Hi all, I've been meaning to respond to your replies but just haven't done so. Know that I read them multiple times and took them to heart.

It's 1:14am now. Today's my birthday. Yesterday (as in a few hours ago), I tried to talk to my H about a few things. He had quite an attitude and was very rude. I asked him what he wanted and he didn't know. He said a few things, called me dumb, etc. While I did not mean to escalate the convo, it somehow got escalated to him saying he wanted to divorce. I said "fine, get your computer out then." We eventually de-escalated and said we would talk after I went on my trip to visit my friend.

A while later, he goes out to get wine, drinks, and comes home with his computer saying that we need to file for divorce. He keeps reminding me that this is what I wanted. I say no, we can talk about this later after my trip. I go on a walk, and he texts me trying to get me to come back and etc. He said he filed. (Here in Denmark, it's quite easy to do so. There may be more paperwork to come though).

We spent the whole evening "talking" (it's him being drunk and me crying), ranging from him saying how he hopes I will do well, to him blaming me. Essentially he is still hurt from what I said initially, leaving for Korea (he saw that as me choosing vacation over him), and me still hurting him by accidentally ignoring him. He's suddenly sharing all the horrible things I've done and he's felt, even though he's never or rarely brought them up. He says he can't trust me anymore. Though he said he'd go to a hotel, he stayed at the apt for 3 hours.

I finally told him to leave. I needed space. He said "If you say I'm leaving, I'm never coming back and this is the last time we see each other." But when I say he can stay here, he doesn't want to! So I tell him to leave, and he left. Now he's sent me many rage messages, saying that I'm the one who told him to leave, and that the divorce papers can be revoked, etc. Basically it sounds like this is the final breakup.

I've been sobbing, been talking to some friends who walked me through it. I need to sleep. I don't know if I want to go back to the US (home) or still go visit my friend who is also in Europe. I don't know. Any insight or just support would be appreciated.

[livednlearned]

There's a chance he will undergo the tender cycle and be back once his emotions return to baseline. For him, feelings = facts. If he feels better, then it is better.

That may not be true for you if you are looking at the relationship as a whole.

These types of high drama moments are unfortunately not uncommon, and can be worse.

What is your sense about where things will go from here? Have you argued like this before?

[bluebutterflies]

Hi livednlearned. We have never argued like this before. He was so scary, so close to my face, and said so many hurtful things. I realised that no matter how much I love him, and I still love him so very much, I cannot stay. He needs to choose to get help and change and I cannot be here being stonewalled for 3 months and who knows how much longer.

So while I don't know if the divorce actually went through or not, but I need to go back home now. My door is still open if/when he gets help, but I cannot be here to support him anymore. It breaks my heart and I've been crying nonstop. But I have to do this for myself.

[Notwendy]

I am glad to see you have made a decision to take care of yourself.

I encourage you to take a long range view of this situation rather than look at individual episodes. His focus on "you did this" as an explanation of his behavior is his projection in the moment, but it's how he copes with his own emotional discomfort. No two married people are exactly alike. Conflict in a marriage is inevitable. How they resolve these depends on their communication and emotional regulation skills.

Rather than look at your disagreements as individual situations, a long range view is that- this is how he is, this is how he's going to react to any emotional slights, perceived or real. There may be some good times between you, but this is the whole package.

Things may have worked better between the two of you during an LDR- and romantic dating but this is different than sharing daily lives in a marital commitment. How he has handled this so far is how he handles it. You agreed to be married before you saw this, and now you can see how being married to him is.

You can choose at this time. It's hard to break a marriage but even harder when there is joint property and children. If he's not able to regulate his feelings now, consider how he would act if/when a child is in the picture. I think you are in a position to choose- do you want this for the long term?  Do you want the father of your children to behave this way towards you and them?

Even if he did get help- this requires long term help. Years of help and also requires motivation and commitment to work at it from him. It's not an instant "find a therapist all is good now" as he may propose.

Once back in the US, you will have the support of being a citizen, familiar surroundings and culture- more grounded in the US than displaced in his country, and less dependent on him more. He may respond by being more romantic at a distance. But you now see the difference between him in a LDR and marriage.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi bluebutterfies-

I am so so sorry.  I’m sure this isn’t how you saw yourself spending your birthday.  My wish for you today is that you find a clear, peaceful and beautiful path filled with happiness.  And if your path points you home, I wholeheartedly support you.  You deserve that and so much more.

It appears your husband has forced your hand.  Please know, many of us who leave do so while we still love our disordered partners.  It’s just that the trust and safety within the relationship is gone, and that often means we need to be gone, too.  Sometimes we need to flee for our safety and that of our children.

In your case so far, with his divorce threats, stonewalling, silence and rage; and it appears he’s now taking a more aggressive posture (you were scared last light) may hold some greater weight, at least in HIS mind...

Does he think he’s got you over a barrel because you’re reliant on him for your resident card and therefore you wouldn’t dare leave his home country?  Does he think you’re so responsible that you wouldn’t, under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES  leave him holding the lease or walk away from your deposit so he’s “safe” in what he’s doing?

What could happen is this... you could make the wise choice to go home today, to return to the US.  And he could return to the apartment and see that you’re not bluffing.  And then perhaps his months of silence and rage will end and he will be filled with love and kisses and tears.

And then somehow, you will find yourself apologizing for all that he’s done.  What then?

No matter what decision you make, we are right beside you.

With love on your birthday,
Gems

[bluebutterflies]

After my last message, I bought a flight home, wrote a goodbye note, and went to buy luggage. I came back to him at the apt. He was calm, not angry anymore, and mostly un-split. I could tell that he was more emotionally regulated. He told me that reading my goodbye note triggered him out of his split.

I don't remember how, but we ended up talking all night, from 5pm-12am. This is the husband I fell in love with, the one who can communicate and can be so emotionally intelligent. We talked about all of our honest feelings in the relationship, including the last 3 months of possible BPD plus everything else, our truth. We both agreed that we didn't know what we wanted to do but we didn't want to fully give up yet. He apologised and acknowledged for the day before and for hurting me, saying that he got so angry and hurt and getting drunk was not good. Since the divorce didn't go through despite him pressing the button, he proposed me delaying my flight so we can come to a full resolution or closure, but of course I can do what I wish. He proposed that we both come up with lists about what we want to work on ourselves, what we will work on for the relationship, and other thoughts.

I cancelled my refundable flight and slept. We met up the next day in the apt and also talked all day, about everything. We decided to try again. We both acknowledged that it may not work and that if another incident or split this bad happens again, we will likely not work out. But I think we both aren't ready to fully give up.

I'm aware that he may not get therapy like he promised again. Thus I'm still going to re-assess the relationship and my feelings in December, or really every month. He knows this, I've been very transparent. He knows I have been talking to you all, he knows I go to a support group. He knows I messaged his friend, everything.

We now meet once a week and submit a google survey we wrote ourselves, to evaluate our relationship. We end the night with gratitudes, what we're working on, what we learned about each other, etc. I'm much happier and he is too, but I am still processing everything.

Now, I also have to process my feelings about the relationship outside the BPD/the last three months. How am I feeling here? Is this the life I want? These are hard questions but I am happy to finally have the relationship "back" for a bit so I can fully decide what I want. He and I both really just want each other to live the life we want and I feel better understanding that he is not the manipulator that I feared him to be (ie, he was never using the residence or marriage to coerce me).

I know this isn't the outcome you all thought was happening. At the time of the divorce threat and being so scary, I just wanted it all to end. Now that he is un-split, I feel like I am at least not at stand-still and forced to look at the relationship in a more roundabout manner.

[Notwendy]

I sincerely hope that this is uphill for the two of you. That said, his sudden unsplitting at the moment where you have taken concrete action to leave, fits the push-pull pattern. I won't make an assumption that his sudden turn around is an attempt to manipulate you. I think it's sincere. Pw BPD have some control over their behavior when they are motivated.

The question is, what motivates him. Does he sincerely want to make changes to improve the relationship, or was he motivated by fear of abandonment becoming truly apparent at the time you were planning to leave? How can you tell?

You can tell when the fear of you leaving isn't there and you are back in the regular routine.  Then that motivation won't be there. He may then feel safe enough to split. If he's motivated to keep working at the relationship, he will continue to do that. Maybe not perfectly, there are ups and downs sometimes, but you will see the difference.

You can also work on your own relationship skills and boundaries. Do not walk on eggshells.

I sincerely wish you happiness, and hope for the best for you. The board is here if you need to post in the future- and it is without judgement. It's your relationship to decide to try to make it work. The board is here if you ever need it.

[livednlearned]

I know this isn't the outcome you all thought was happening.

 

To echo Notwendy, this is probably the least judgmental group you will find when it comes to BPD relationships and whether to stay or not stay.

Have you talked about what you will do the next time he splits? He will split again, it's part of the disorder.

Given you are very open with each other, maybe you can talk through together the best way to manage the split. Some people are able to lay groundrules this during the tender, regulated cycle.

It could be as simple as, "I am not willing to be called names. That's a sign I need to get myself to ______ so I can get myself back to baseline/prevent my nervous system from freaking out. It doesn't mean I will leave, it means I'm keeping our relationship safe."

You may want to write it down, together.

For my ex, splitting was like being shot out of a rocket. He wasn't in a position to control what he said or did because he was reliving an old trauma against someone who harmed him, before he could even develop a personality (preventing him from developing a personality). It was a complete 180 when he split. What I never realized, and honestly, I'm not sure it would've changed the outcome, is that I didn't have to stay and take it in the chin. I had choices.

You two might be able to talk about what those choices look like.

Right now, as it stands, there is so much responsibility on his end for behaviors he may not be able to control. Long term, no matter how hard he works, there is a path where you have agency that doesn't lead immediately to: I'm leaving (if that isn't what you really want). It could be, "I'm leaving for now, I will be back when things feel more stable for the relationship."

You will always be the emotional leader and it probably won't ever be a relationship where it's fully level. That's the part that most of us have to truly dig deep. It is a special needs relationship. Having BPD is having a special need, or at a minimum, a high need.

[bluebutterflies]

Hi all, thank you so much for your support. Things have been going sort-of-uphill but definitely windy. I really appreciate all of your insight and that you have been so supportive.

My mistake was not doing a true thorough overhaul of emotions. We did not talk about what to do when he splits and he nearly did split a week ago. My anxiety is quite high whenever I feel a change in energy and mood, which is the theme of today's post.

I'm using this thread to also document my life. We have been continuously doing our daily affirmations and weekly meetings. The smaller things, like being more thankful or whatnot, we have both been improving. I have been very honest with him, telling him that I'm a bit walking-on-eggshells which he did not want me to feel. Today, I feel back at square one again.

Things were wrong from the start. We went to the museum late, waited in line, the lady recommended us going to the installation right away before it closes. We go and get in line, but then my H starts making comments about how the installation didn't look great, that there might be other things in the museum he'd want to spend more time on. I mis-read this as him not wanting to see it and insisted we just leave the queue. I am a very joyful, casual talker so I always say things respectfully and make sure he is okay with it. He exasperately said sure we can leave, but I could tell he was frustrated. We went back to the start of the museum and he pretty much walked through all of it quickly and we were back at the installation. We tried to wait again but it was closed. Long story short we tried to talk through what happened as we walk outside and go home, but his words always blamed me and he wouldn't really understand my point of view. I felt very hurt and misunderstood. Because of the shift in energy, he walks fast in front of me, walks away when I am talking, and in general the energy is so tense. I cried all the way on the bus home because I was very hurt and I feel emotions strongly. When we got home, he said I embarrassed him and he wouldn't really talk about what happened. We missed dinner reservations, as I was just crying and he was nearly in the anger mode that he was when we almost got divorced. I felt so scared. He was up in my face again, and pushed me once. He kept saying how I ruined everything and it was my fault, and that things were fine but I escalated it. Now he is in the living room and says he cannot speak to me right now.

I'm unsure what to do from here. I feel so hurt, so shaken. I understand I shouldn't have encouraged us to leave the line but all in all I feel like these things aren't a big deal. I felt so scared—I even told him he was scaring me. I'm slowly understanding that I am feeling more sad than happy in this relationship, yet I also knew how hard it would be to repair it. I keep fantasizing about a life without him but I also cannot envision a life without him. I also cannot tell if this is just a regular fight that married couples have, or if this is something no one should experience. I just don't know. Is this part of the healing process, because it would be a difficult road?

I don't know if I can bear it. I'm so sad. The way he spoke to me and the tone hurt me so much. But I also understand that people often need to work on the way they communicate in fights. Yet also, this is all over him perceiving that I ruined the day, when I am not so sure what I have done. I just don't know if this is a "normal" fight that people have.

I think I also love our story so much. We traveled the world together. He helped me heal and taught me how to love again. I don't know how to let go of that. Or if I should.

[bluebutterflies]

I just want to share that I was very emotional writing that post but I have calmed down and am now seeing things in a different light. Thank you.

[15years]

I just want to share that I was very emotional writing that post but I have calmed down and am now seeing things in a different light. Thank you.

How do you see it differently now and what do you feel about your emotional post now when you have calmed down?

Was it the first time he pushed you?

[Notwendy]

I think it's good that you recorded your feelings in the moment. These episodes can be cyclic. I think it's easy to rationalize your feelings away once that part of the cycle is over and one enters the calmer, loving part. By recording this, you could see a pattern.


He helped me heal and taught me how to love again. I don't know how to let go of that. Or if I should.

I think this is something to look into. What did he help you emotionally heal from? Past hurts can come into play into our relationships.


I also cannot tell if this is just a regular fight that married couples have, or if this is something no one should experience.

Married couples have disagreements. How they work them out depends on their ability to communicate and regulate their emotions. I think the question- should nobody tolerate this kind of behavior actually becomes one for you- do you want to tolerate this behavior?

It's understandable to not know what "normal" is if someone grew up with dysfunction in their family. A child only knows what they see. If your parents interacted like this, then it may feel "normal" to you when it's dysfunctional.

He had quite an over reaction to your suggestion to step out of the line in a museum. Yet, you are questioning your feelings. These kind of situations can feel confusing, make you wonder - did this really happen- when he's being a loving person again. Of note- he pushed you. Pay attention to this. Physical violence is never acceptable and can escalate.

You don't deserve how he treated you over this. You certainly don't deserve being pushed, left crying and upset and if you accept this kind of treatment- he sees he can do it. Please keep this in mind.

A couple of things about the dynamics. He was grumbling in the museum. You stepped in to "fix" the situation by suggesting the two of you leave. Most likely, you were beginning to fear this would turn into something he'd be angry about- so you jumped in to "fix" his feelings before it happened. This "fixing his feelings" isn't your role. He's an adult. If he doesn't want to stand in line- he can decide what do do about it. Fixing his discomfort is a way of walking on eggshells- something to be careful about.

and this too: I am a very joyful, casual talker so I always say things respectfully and make sure he is okay with it.

Being careful about what you say so you don't upset him- fear of saying the wrong thing- walking on eggshells again.

Seems like you are now in a more "it wasn't that bad" phase and feeling you were over emotional. You don't have to dismiss your feelings. This record of them may give you some clarity if you are wanting to remember them.

[bluebutterflies]

@15years I acknowledge how my anxiety played a part in the relationship, that I need to prioritise what I want and just stay in line if that's what I wanted. But I was too busy worrying about his feelings and ended up micro-managing, which ended up blowing up in both of our faces. I felt really overwhelmed in that moment, a day later I still feel overwhelmed but more calm. My trusted friend has been able to walk me through everything that happened, why it probably happened, and what to do next.

And this is the second time he pushed me. The first time was during the almost-divorce a month ago. He pushed me because I was in the way. Last night also, he kept pushing me in bed, as if to punish me throughout the night. I finally told him to stop, and he either did or he fell asleep.

Today, I tried to remind him that we have our meeting today but he refused, swearing at me and pulling the blankets over his face. I tried to be more forceful as we both agreed to do these meetings to help the relationship. He told me to leave the room and was "warning me" (in the past he's warned me when he felt like he was about to do something bad, and is protecting me). He threw my bag at the ground.

I tried again a bit later but he was the same. Right now I am trying to paint and talk to my friend. I think if this split lasts a month or so, I cannot stay in the relationship. I have plans to visit the US in Oct 8-30 anyways.

Overall our relationship has been good. We have been honest with each other about where we are at, we have been working hard to acknowledge and thank each other, small things we addressed. But the bigger things I'm realising, are still not being addressed.

@Notwendy He helped me heal from trauma from my past relationship. I learned to trust again, to love. He's been someone who has helped me with my past self-cutting harm. He's always been there to listen, to understand what I'm going through.

I don't want to tolerate this behavior. I don't and I made that clear during the almost-divorce. At the same time, he promised me he would work on it. I want to at least see him go to therapy and do DBT with me, minimum. I think I am so fearful of going home and regretting it.

I agree that I am now in a more "hey maybe this is just part of this up and down cycle as we move towards healing" but I am still upset. I am still crying, upset over how I am being treated. I acknowledge my part in being the caretaker yet I am so hurt and shocked.