Newly married husband split for three months

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I agree that I am now in a more "hey maybe this is just part of this up and down cycle as we move towards healing" but I am still upset. I am still crying, upset over how I am being treated. I acknowledge my part in being the caretaker yet I am so hurt and shocked.

Not to disappoint you, but this is not a healing cycle. This is a well documented "abuse cycle". It serves a function for him- to project his uncomfortable feelings. After he does ( and you feel badly during this time as he has projected them at you) there can be a period of calm and even remorse. It can feel as if things are improving but then, it happens again. People can be trauma bonded in this situation.


He helped me heal from trauma from my past relationship.  And trauma, anxiety can be the sticking point between the two of you. We tend to choose partners with whom we "fit" somehow. This doesn't mean each person has the same issues. It's more like "lock and key" fit where their different issues fit together. While love and support from others can be a support when we are working on our own issues, healing is self work, usually under the guidance of a therapist or someone who is objective- like a 12 step sponsor.

Self care is key in these situations. Getting counseling for yourself can help, even if it is your H who has the most outward disordered behaviors.

[Notwendy]

I agree that I am now in a more "hey maybe this is just part of this up and down cycle as we move towards healing" but I am still upset. I am still crying, upset over how I am being treated. I acknowledge my part in being the caretaker yet I am so hurt and shocked.

Not to disappoint you, but this is not a healing cycle. This is a well documented "abuse cycle". It serves a function for him- to project his uncomfortable feelings. After he does ( and you feel badly during this time as he has projected them at you) there can be a period of calm and even remorse. It can feel as if things are improving but then, it happens again. People can be trauma bonded in this situation.


He helped me heal from trauma from my past relationship.  And trauma, anxiety can be the sticking point between the two of you. We tend to choose partners with whom we "fit" somehow. This doesn't mean each person has the same issues. It's more like "lock and key" fit where their different issues fit together. While love and support from others can be a support when we are working on our own issues, healing is self work, usually under the guidance of a therapist or someone who is objective- like a 12 step sponsor.

Self care is key in these situations. Getting counseling for yourself can help, even if it is your H who has the most outward disordered behaviors.

[judee]

Hi BB, I agree with Notwendy (hilarious nickname btw)...
It is hard for you to believe, I get the impression you a person that internalises, tries to compensate and is an eternal optimist. But it he is abusive towards you and it is getting worse.
I am in a situation myself where I did not want to believe that, I believed for a long time that things could get better ( and a not healthy part in me still does) between my exwBPD and me but it is an almost given fact that once the devil is out of the box, he is not fitting back in.
It went from yelling after two months, to silent treatments after two months... to pushing and throwing after three months ( this is where I broke up)
Unfortunately we got back together and then all hell broke loose, with all of them simultaneously, alternated only by blips of  the sweet, passionate man I met.

Keep writing what you go through, it is incredibly valuable for yourself and others to keep track of what is happening.

[Protectourfamily]

Keep writing what you go through, it is incredibly valuable for yourself and others to keep track of what is happening.

True. bluebutterflies, I feel like you are holding up a mirror to the parts of my life I don't really want to see.
Speaking as someone still in a 16-year marriage, with a lot of kids... If I would have known then what I do now, I would have made different decisions with my life.
My husband has been in therapy for 14 years (with different therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists) and although there are times he is great and loving, he will still pull the blankets off me and rage at me while I am sleeping. He will still push, hit or punch me even if there are years of no violence in between.
I don't presume to know what you should do. But my husband is the sweetest, most loving and harmless-looking guy most of the time, yet his ability to change is severely impaired.

[Notwendy]

BB- I don't know what kind of evidence you will need to determine what to do. That will be up to you, but a couple of things to consider:

The evidence is more about you than him. How much of this are you willing to tolerate? How do you feel most of the time? Yes it's "normal" for couples to have disagreements and some times where you feel upset with each other but how people manage this makes a difference. Verbal and emotional abuse does not have to be an acceptable situation- unless you choose to accept it.

Abuse does not have to be physical to be hurtful and dangerous.

A local domestic violence shelter had a T shirt selling fund raiser. On the shirt it said "love doesn't hurt". That resonated with me because, emotional and verbal abuse was "normalized" in my family growing up but the way BPD mother treated me was verbally and emotionally abusive and I was expected to tolerate it.

Abuse usually isn't constant. It's a cycle. When the person is apologetic and loving, it appears they have control over it. People who abuse others aren't necessarily evil- they may be emotionally disordered. By recording your feelings and when this happens, you may be able to see a pattern if it is there.

It's understandable you don't want to have regrets if you leave. I don't think it's possible to have no regrets whether one stays or leaves. Few people are all good or all bad. I think the decision is complicated and one needs to look at the overall situation.

[bluebutterflies]

@Notwendy, ah I agree and I see what you mean. I spent all morning watching tik toks on trauma bond and crying. I had hoped that we were moving towards healing, but again actions mean more than words.

@judee thank you for sharing, I hope you are on your way towards healing. I will continue to write to document, as embarrassing as it feels.

@Protectourfamily, sending you so much love. I am promising myself that if I am in this position before my birthday next year, I will leave no matter what.

A few thoughts I've been having:

1. I'm scared of leaving, both the country and the relationship in fear that he will say that I gave up on us and did not work on the marriage (despite understanding that I worked the most on the marriage)

2. I agree that "love doesn't hurt." It's just still so hard for me to accept all of this as this is still the first long-ranging set of incidents that I have experienced, that I am still in shock that I am experiencing it in the first place. I feel like the relationship has been soo good for the most part, that I am having a hard time still processing this. However, as more time goes on, he still is more dysregulated.

I've written a goodbye letter but right now I don't know if I will share it and actually leave him. I don't know. My mind is confused. I've just gone to a free in-person counseling and I will go again.

I have a trip to the US from Oct 8-30. There are a few plans that I have set in mind, yet none of them feel right.

Yesterday I tried to talk to him and even announced I will leave Saturday if he doesn't talk by then. I packed a few backs but then broke down in realisation of what I had done. I'm a mess. I'm at a loss of how attached I feel to this person and also the deep love I do feel for him. I think of how proud I am of him, how I beam at him when he is shining.

[Notwendy]

Being afraid to leave because of what he will say is a fear based on his defining you. He can say anything he wants to say- and he probably will blame you- because often someone with this behavior does that- blames the other person. However, we are responsible for our own behavior. You are not the cause of how he treats you and what he says about you does not define you.

If I called you a pink elephant, would you believe me? Would you be afraid that I said you are a pink elephant? I don't think so. This is a boundary. You know for certain that you are a human. If I think you are an elephant and tell you that - does that make it true? Would you be thinking maybe I am right. Probably not.

You know you have done your part and more. If he thinks it's not enough, that doesn't change your truth. This is a boundary. You know who you are. If whatever he says about you isn't true, then him saying it doesn't make it true. Fear of what he might say could lead you to go against what you feel you need to do. He does not define you.

Don't make threats that you can not enforce. This shows him your boundaries are not strong and that he can make you change your mind.

You might wonder why he is doing this more than before you were married. It may not even be a conscious decision on his part, but that his fear of abandonment is diminished - you are married ( more of a commitment ), you have moved to his country and this makes it harder for you to be independent of him. Less fear leads to more of the behavior. It's part of the abuse cycle too. After an episode, there's more fear you will leave and he becomes good again. Actually, you are both acting out of fear in a way. You fear his reaction if you leave. This leads you to tolerating his behavior.

Do not give any indication you will leave him or are considering it. The most dangerous time for someone in an abusive relationship is when they are leaving. The partner becomes overcome with anger and fear and can be at their worse and actually cause serious harm to them. If someone is planning to leave, they are advised to have an escape plan.

I anticipate a reaction from him when you go to the states. He can't see you or control you then. He may escalate. He may also act out and threaten divorce if you go. He may do what he can to keep you from going.

I think it would help to call a domestic violence hotline in the US to talk about your situation. If you can't do it from where you are now, call when you get to the states. Take anything valuable or sentimental with you. If you choose to leave, going back to get your things can be dangerous. Also don't pack a lot so he thinks you are coming back. Clothes, furniture- these are replaceable. Something sentimental like jewelry or a picture book- tell him you are showing the pictures to your family if he asks. You don't have to know for sure what you will do, but I think contacting a DV hotline to talk to someone will help you decide and also know how to do it safely.

Do not leave a goodbye letter. Don't let him see these. He will escalate. If you choose to not return, the DV hotline will help you with how to tell him.

[judee]

Hi bb, I hope you don't feel in anyway pushed in a direction... or embaressed.
This is about you and your feelings.
I understand you are in this relationship for quite awhile before this got consistently worse. I know from my own experience that even one good conversation in a rain of bad ones is enough to keep my hopes up.
It is not embarrassing to feel good about it one day and lose your hopes the other... it is actually these honest feelings that will help you on the long run to figure this out.

[Notwendy]

Yes, as Judee said- it may seem these replies are pushing you to decide, so I wish to clarify- your decision is up to you but since you are writing goodbye letters and contemplating the idea of leaving, the intent is - if you choose to do that, please look into how to do that safely.

Please also know that for many of us on this board, we have experienced something similar in one kind of relationship or another and if it was so clear cut- we'd have no need for this kind of board. People are complex. A partner or family member can be amazing, and loving, while also acting out in hurtful ways. The good times make us hopeful.

Feelings can be confusing. For me, love and fear were mixed. The people who both supposedly love me the most were also emotionally and verbally abusive. Love and fear coexisted in relationships too. Ironically, if someone was angry at me, it both scared me and felt comfortable- because it's familiar.

It's clear you love your husband and there's nothing to be embarrassed about that.

[bluebutterflies]

I agree that I need to not make threats I cannot enforce, but what do I do now that I have announced it? I change my mind literally every minute—as of now I want to stay until I go to the US on Oct 8 (which btw, he has been aware of this for a whole year now so I doubt he will be fearful when I go).

I am regretful of how we did not do a full communication overhaul, how we stopped talking about plans for diagnosis and therapy. In a way, I want to give myself that chance so I know that I tried (even though I know I am already doing my best and beyond). I think if I leave now I will still be regretful.

A few boundaries I made for myself
- If I cut or self harm myself, I am leaving
- If I am in this horrible situation by my birthday next year, I am leaving
- If he hits me, I am leaving

In a way, I am hoping that he can get out of this split so we can talk about what happened, because this time there is nothing he can blame his behavior on. Last time, I did agree that we both became lazy and roommates in the relationship, however throughout all of August we worked extremely hard on that. Now, he has to admit that he is the issue.

I don't want to leave, I really don't want to. I wrote the goodbye letter to get everything out of my mind but I have no plans to do anything with it. My mind changes per minute so I don't know what to do. My ideal scenario is that he gets help and we live a beautiful life together. How does one decide what to do?

Thank you all for listening. I agree that I must do things safely. I'm just quite shocked still, that I am even going through this. For now, I'm going to keep thinking about it. I went to an in person counseling today and they were very kind and walked me through my options as well.

[judee]

Hi BB... with the letter, it happened.. It seems you won't feel good about yourself unless you give it an honest shot. You can tell him you are sorry about the letter and want to do that...
To keep your sanity and for him to know you are serious in setting boundaries, may I suggest next time something occurs and you want out, you vent here first before writing him?
I am only saying this because I don't want you to lose your credibility ( towards yourself and towards him)
I told my ex I wanted to leave many times which I think actually made him numb to it. It also harmed my own belief in myself.
I think all of these flip flop feelings you describe now are really normal in a crazy making situation you are in .
It is just another symptom of the despair and inconsistency of the relationship.

[Cat Familiar]

Do you think you can tolerate a lifetime with someone who behaves this way and may never improve?

Does he acknowledge that he has behaved badly and have a desire to actively seek counseling or do DBT?

Do you anticipate him having a similar reaction to you being out of the country in October that he had some months ago?

What would you tell a friend with a partner who behaves in a similar manner?

[bluebutterflies]

@judee to clarify, I never sent the letter, it is sitting in my Google Drive. The worst of what I have done is begin to pack, so I have empty suitcases in the living room now.

I agree, that may be a good idea to vet here before doing or saying something I may regret. I somehow have this mindset of wanting to gather my thoughts and be collected and calm before sending things here, because I also too don't want to write to all something I may regret.

@CatFamiliar No I cannot tolerate a lifetime. Yes he acknowledges he behaved badly and promised to seek counseling/DBT, but only when he is ready. He has already agreed to get a diagnosis but we haven't move forward with that. When I go out of the country in October, I do not anticipate him to rage. He mainly raged for Korea (the vacation) because I went without him, and for Amsterdam because I did not tell him. He was clear those were why he felt betrayed. Underneath it of course is still fear of abandonment. However me going to the US for a wedding he has known for a year.

What would you tell a friend with a partner who behaves in a similar manner?

I would tell my friend to assess and trust her gut, and to do what she feels right. However, what I would tell a friend is not usually what I can do for myself, as life is so much more nuanced. I get the goal of this line of questioning though.

[judee]

Hi bb, ok ! well.. good for you. at least you wrote it out.
I mean don't get me wrong, I agree with cat, I just hope to be able to stand by you a bit to remain consistent towards him. You don't have to be consistent on this forum, this is exactly the place to vent, be confused, not know, doubt, say that you want to leave, say you don't, of all people most of us here understand exactly where you are at.

[Notwendy]

If you don't intend to leave on Saturday if he doesn't talk to you, best to undo that now. He may test the boundary and hold out until Saturday. If you don't go, then you have shown him it was empty words. Now is the time to say to him " I wish you would speak to me, but when I said I would leave by Saturday if you don't, I was upset at the time. Now that I have had the chance to think about it, I don't wish to do that.

Keep it short. He likely won't say anything back. Just then go about your business.

He will talk when he decides, not much you can do about it. The silent treatment is hard to deal with though.

[bluebutterflies]

Thank you so much. After Notwendy advised me to do so, I promptly told my H just that.

My plans for the near future:

- I moved my flight to the US up to Sep 25. I have already told my H in person that my mom will be indefinitely out of the country for emergency purposes and I would like to spend some time with her before she goes. I also shared that I will be seeing some friends, so that he does not think I am withholding info from him. He just went "mhm..mhm" and the next day I messaged him exactly what I told him, like "Hi my love, like I shared with you yesterday..." so that he cannot claim I did not tell him.

- Since I told him I will be back Oct 30, I will do just that. I do not anticipate him to rage when I go, as I told him two weeks before the outbound flight and have a good reason to go. We also talked about this ages ago and he was always okay with me going to the US earlier. If he does rage, I will simply ignore it or de-escalate (depending on what happens). TBH I am a *little* worried that he may feel abandoned again, but what can I do. He cannot say that I haven't attempted to fix the marriage when I spent the last week pleading him to talk at every chance.

- From now until Sep 25 I have been just focusing on myself and not talking to him (well he isn't talking to me in the first place). I will likely text him before I get on the flight to let him know I am going.

- I do anticipate him to reach out sometime between now and Oct 30. We will see what happens if he does.

- When I come back, what I do is dependent on if we talk or not. I intend on (with much love) telling him that his actions are tearing down our relationship and I cannot stay much longer if this continues. If needed, I will show him the spreadsheet of incidents I have compiled that dates back to 2018 (is this a good idea?). If he is completely against getting help, then I will likely just go home and divorce. If he is sure about getting help, I will insist on not finding a new apt right away and us living separately until he gets his stuff together. I need concrete evidence that he is doing DBT, etc and do not want to be tied to another lease in false hopes.

My one question is that it will likely take time to find a proper DBT course and psychiatrist and therapist etc. If he were to agree to all of this but is put on a waitlist, how would I move forward? (this is also a future question so perhaps we don't need to discuss now). I also have already made a list of couples/marriage therapists and would like to do this as well. I know a lot of you don't recommend it for people with BPD, but as my H thinks it is a good idea, I feel like the therapist may be able to share that he has BPD (or whatever he has!)

- I do not imagine us not having a serious conversation before Dec 31. We will by then have to have moved or sell our furniture, in preparation to leave.

Note: I am applying for grad school, ideally in the states but one here in Europe. If I get accepted to the US, I would have to go in August anyways. He is cognizant and is/was prepared for this for years. We were hoping to go this year but I didn't get in this year. So that is something I am also thinking about—prioritising my dreams. It all depends if I get in. The only reason for me to go to the one in Europe is if that is truly what I want, AND if he gets his stuff together.

Thoughts, concerns, would be appreciated. Have I missed anything?

[Notwendy]

Thank you so much. After Notwendy advised me to do so, I promptly told my H just that.

My plans for the near future:

 the next day I messaged him exactly what I told him, like "Hi my love, like I shared with you yesterday..." so that he cannot claim I did not tell him.

I am a *little* worried that he may feel abandoned again, but what can I do. He cannot say that I haven't attempted to fix the marriage when I spent the last week pleading him to talk at every chance.


- When I come back, what I do is dependent on if we talk or not.

Thoughts, concerns, would be appreciated. Have I missed anything?

I am going to highlight the thinking in this post- from a position of having worked on co-dependency. Codependency is being overly focused on the other person's feelings and controlling them- as a means of controlling our own feelings. It's misplaced and not successful because we can not control someone else's feelings. What we need to do is take control of our own focus and feelings- because we are responsible for that.

You seem to be putting the decision about whether or not you stay in this relationship in control of your H. If he talks to you, you will stay. But he may talk to you for a while and then not talk to you because this is the pattern he does. Making a long term decision based on his mood of the day - something that is constantly changing- means his emotions are driving the direction of the marriage. They lead you.

You are also putting the decision on the contingency he gets help. He may do that but he may also start, then stop, and you don't know if it works or not. He could be inconsistent about that too- and still - the decision is in his control.

You seem to be doing some proactive "control" "he can't say I didn't do this or didn't do that". He can say whatever he wants. He can call you a pink elephant if he wants to. He is blaming you for his behavior and you are picking up the responsibility for it. He is responsible for his behavior, and you are responsible for yours.

My concern is not in what you decide. That's up to you. However, basing your decisions on his behavior and feelings at the moment will leave you following the feelings of a disordered person. Overly focusing on him will lead you to lose touch with who you are and what you want. The graduate school goal is a good one. One thing to consider is- how will this relationship affect your studies? Can you concentrate on school work when there is emotional stress and chaos at home? Is this a supportive relationship for you?

I know you have a hard time accepting that his behaviors are a part of who he is. One aspect of BPD is that the behaviors are greater when the connection is closer and safer. This is a paradox but BPD impacts the most intimate of relationships the most. The fact that his behaviors increased after you married and moved overseas is consistent with this. That made the commitment stronger. What you may see is that his behaviors begin to improve as the end of your lease approaches. He may be at his best right before it's time to sign the lease. Once signed though, then the bothersome behaviors may increase.

While I know you want things to be better for him, that kind of change is not something you can control. What you see is who he is. All of it. The wonderful and the not so wonderful. The decision you are making is to continue in a relationship like this for the long run or to decide that a long term relationship like this is not something you can continue with for your own emotional well being. It's obvious you care about him but you also need to consider your own emotional well being.

Also the timing. It's harder to change a relationship status when there are children- and especially when parents live in two different countries. Legally, you are most protected in your own country, and he is most protected in his. Also - looking at his behavior- is this the person you wish to be the father of your children?

It's hard to think about what you want when there's emotional chaos. I think it will help to be in the US on your own for a bit. Pay close attention to your feelings. Surely you will miss him but do you feel calmer? More able to focus on your thoughts. While you wish for him to get counseling, it may be more helpful for you to do that, to help you collect your thoughts and feelings.

[bluebutterflies]

I understand what you mean NotWendy. I understand that things are standstill and I truly feel like I cannot make any decisions during these silent treatment periods. However in order to even make that decision, he needs to get out of this split/silent treatment/depressive episode and talk to me. I understand it is dependent on his behavior but I know I will regret just moving home and deciding on divorce without a proper conversation. I I need to know and see that he is putting effort into getting help in order to stay. If he refuses then I will divorce. If he tries and things still go downhill, then I will divorce. If I stop loving him then I will divorce too.

However this is why I am still seeing how things are by the end of the year and then I will re-assess. I also told myself that if I have a bad birthday next year, or if he tries to get help but things are still bad by my birthday, then I have leaving. Which is also why I am focusing on my goals now of going to grad school.

I understand that his behavior is a part of who he is and have come to terms with this. I have just read so many success stories where the person with BPD goes through DBT and is keen changing, and BPD is not in their life anymore. I think that is why I want to see how the next few months go. I have already told him that I will not have kids with him with his mental health like this, and he understands and agrees with this boundary. However, it is my understanding that once the person with BPD gets treatment and continuously work on themselves, they are very capable of having strong relationships and being parents.

In general, I just don't feel that I can make a decision right now. This is why I think seeing how things unfold will be helpful. I will not make a straight ultimatum, but I need to see actions immediately or I will leave.

[Cat Familiar]

it is my understanding that once the person with BPD gets treatment and continuously work on themselves, they are very capable of having strong relationships and being parents.


Yes, DBT can be helpful IF and ONLY IF the individual is devoted to continuously working on themselves.

Unfortunately few pwBPD are willing to enter into therapy, and fewer, if they do so, choose to make the long term commitment to pursuing treatment for the several years that it takes to have lasting improvement from BPD.

It’s heartbreaking to face the odds, but through accepting reality rather than focusing on the “what iffs” we have a much better chance of living a happy and fulfilling life.

[livednlearned]

When you open the door to therapy you have to be prepared for what walks through.

The process of doing therapy has proved to be more than some pwBPD could handle while also being in a relationship (usually marriage). One or the other had to go.

It can be true for many of us. The process of going to therapy led me to recognize what was terribly wrong in my marriage.

Who I was when I got married was not the same as who I became in response to therapy.

I don't have BPD, yet were someone to tell me I had to do DBT or else xyz, it would feel like an ultimatum and my responses would be driven by fear.

Perhaps the more fruitful approach is to let him know you are going to work on yourself and learn how to stay grounded when he is dysregulating, or removing yourself if he becomes destructive, or practicing radical acceptance that this is fundamentally who he is.

[Notwendy]

It's understandable you want to give this enough time for you to be sure, one way or the other. You have set some deadlines for yourself to reassess. I would suggest you keep these to yourself - these are personal "reassess your feelings" dates. Sharing with him would be an ultimatum. He also might be on his best behavior at these times so that you don't leave him. He doesn't want you to leave, but he also has a disorder that causes him to mistreat you. You love him but you also can love yourself. These are not easy relationships to stay in or to leave.

There is grief and sadness in realizing you've had enough of the hurtful situation. You yourself are the determinant of this. When I think of my situation with my BPD mother, there's grief. She pushed me too far. She knows it and I think she's sad about it, but also she just doesn't seem to be able to stop how she treats me. If I could change things by talking it out with her, it would have been done already. I have tried.

If she did go to therapy and work on her issues and make real change, maybe things could be different, but she is who she is, and I have cried so much over how she treats me and I still do sometimes. Yet each time I visit her, I'm in tears over the things she says to me. I am sure she can sense my fear when I visit her too. My decision to keep a casual distance from her is not about her, it's about me. How she treats me is hurtful and I have to keep myself emotionally safe.

These are not easy choices. It can be a struggle. You may love him, he may love you, but if he also hurts you, and that's part of the deal, then you can decide just how much of this you want to have in a marriage. While you are afraid he will say you aren't trying enough, is he trying too?  Is it a loving thing to not speak to you while you are begging him to talk to you? It also seems that when you two are talking, you do a lot of it- affirmations, discussions but does long term change come from that?

I would not share your thoughts about this. Make a point to reassess your feelings privately on the dates you have set.

[ForeverDad]

Have you been following the ongoing disaster yellowbutterfly is currently facing?  (New marriage, OOP against her, locked out of her own apartment, facing horrendous allegations in spouse's divorce filing?)  She tried doing what all of us are inclined to do as Nice Guys and Nice Gals... trying fairness and sharing communications and reaping the whirlwind of overreactions.

From your posts, it too seems you're trying to use logic, normalcy, fairness, reasonableness and hope with your marriage.  Sadly, you need to accept a more realistic perspective.  Look at the history.  Your future can be predicted in general terms by pondering your past history in the relationship.  A brutal question is... Do you want that future?

Sure he may seek out therapy, he may apply it in his entire life and marriage.  Maybe?  Odds aren't great at this point.  What path will you have taken in the coming years if he is like so many who, in the less-bad side of the cycle, make conditional promises to change but never actually change for the better?  Promises and hopes mean little, actions are what count.

Fortunately, neither of you have children to make the relationship even more troubled and complicated.

Please read Notwendy's post again.  It is chock full of practical advice.  "I would not share your thoughts about this."  Why this?  Sharing your information can be TMI - too much information.  It enables the other person to sabotage your fine intentions and goals.  Did you note what happened to YB?  She was up front and in an attempt at fairness told her spouse she would divorce and he retaliated, burning all bridges and her legal issues and challenges went to the moon. 

[BPDEnjoyer]

This is pretty simple.  You need to leave and divorce.  Things will get worse.  You don't go into a relationship changing a person.  Clearly your husband is not self aware and therapy is not a quick fix to your marriage. 

[Notwendy]

It's understandable that some people have had bad experiences with relationships with someone with BPD- but each person needs to decide to stay or leave themselves. Board regulations are that we don't tell them to stay or leave as none of us know all the circumstances of others' relationships. For all of us, any opinions are not professional ones.

For the user name "BPD enjoyer" - what is it that was enjoyable?

[yellowbutterfly]

Yellowbutterfly, chiming in here

My only regret is that once I decided to divorce my uBPDh is that I was "nice" by telling him so when he confronted me. I am in a whirlwind of h*ll right now. I wanted a non-confrontational no-fault divorce even though he is abusive and is actually at fault.

My advice follows @FD and @notwendy and what I WISH I'd done. Do not share ANY plans of ANY kind whether to stay or go with your SO. I'm locked out of MY apartment per his false petition for a TOP against me, filed a false DV report with the police, a false claim of cruelty with a fault divorce against me and I'm left to clean up all the mess with $$$$ of legal fees. He lied about everything and the law has to belive him until proven otherwise. Meanwhile I'm the one who's being/been abused by him. It's so not fair.

The only thing I did wrong was TELL HIM and think we could discuss a peaceful separation/divorce.

Whatever you decide, DO NOT think sharing it will help, nor will you get any clarity. I've found that is what therapy is for.

Also, I have not read all of your posts but if he's physically pushing you it will likely only get worse. I wish I'd gotten a TOP the day after my H did this to me. My only regrets again are not doing what others suggested: ie TOP (my lawyer, police), keeping my plans to myself etc.

I wish you the best, I know personally how hard this is...

[yellowbutterfly]

other advice:
- write every interaction down in a locked note with dates, actions, etc.
- confirm things in text/email with your SO
- backup your phone/computer
- change your passwords
- create a safety plan with a therapist

Not to scare you, these are all things I did or wish I'd done. You may never need them, but your situation parallels mine so I wanted to share.

[bluebutterflies]

Thank you all for your insight. I have read your words over and over again. I still have not made a final decision. I am going to the US on the 25th and will take this time to think through everything. I hope to gain clarity on the situation so that I can make this decision on my own accord. I do need to come back to take care of some legal matters, to ship some paintings back home (if I were to leave). There's just a lot of stuff I'd need to do as I got a residence permit to live here, so I can't just leave. If he reaches out to me during this time, I will assess and likely let you all know.

So far I have a spreadsheet of every split he's had since the beginning of the relationship, dating back to early 2018. Though I love him, I am so hurt that I think this pain is beyond the relationship saving (meaning, I think I am so hurt I need to heal without him). I don't know what this means—whether it is a separation or divorce or just me moving back home. So I will assess and get back to you all. Right now I do not have a final decision but when I do and if I choose to leave, I will definitely need your advise.

For documentation purposes: He hasn't spoken to me in a week, and a week ago was me just trying to get him to talk. Yesterday he said I could talk but he wasn't going to talk. He said that I need to figure out why he's angry and that he shouldn't have to tell him (he says this during big, long splits, like the last time he said this was when I accidentally ignored him). He called me a c**t and told me to leave him alone. He said he didn't know if he wants to be with me. The night before he spent some time on the couch before going back to bed. When I woke up, I saw that he had carelessly tossed my clothes that were on the couch, onto the floor, which includes my laptop which was flipped over. I don't think he did it with intentions of destroying anything nor did he damage anything, but I was so angry he would even do that to my computer so thoughtlessly.

Today, I threw away a steak that was in a plastic bag, because it's been there for a week and it was brown. Just now he came in and asked what happened to his steak and I said I threw it away as it was old. He got mad and went to bed. I went to the bedroom to apologise and ask if he was ok, and he just sulked and said he was mad. I realised again that I'm dealing with someone who is 5 years old in terms of emotions. (I mainly went to the bedroom to confirm that he's mad).

As of this moment, I'm in the phase of just being angry. I'm so mad that I moved to another continent, another country to be treated like this. Then I wake up and I'm sad and in mourning. I'm starting to realise that the good times we had, as beautiful and intense and passionate as they were, aren't enough. I'm starting to realise that I dont even think we're a good match, as much as I wanted to believe it. I don't know if I'm just making excuses to leave, but this is what I'm feeling right now.

I will go to the US and start another thread after I've processed and thought through things a bit. Thank you all.

[Notwendy]

I am not an expert or trained in this kind of advice. I think it would help if you were to call a DV hotline while in the US to get some information about how to keep yourself safe should you choose to leave. They may advise you to not return at all for your own safety.

If you decide to split, but choose to return for certain reasons, please consider bringing someone with you- possibly a male- not romantic in any way ( or can be inferred as such)- a brother, uncle, father. One of the most dangerous times for an abusive relationship is when the partner attempts to leave. Emotions are escalated. Having someone with you changes the dynamics, he may be less likely to act up with a male there but another person with you in general changes the dynamics.

If your main reason to return is for "closure" consider that sometimes this doesn't happen.

I understand you are still figuring out what to do- but it's a good idea to get information about this should you choose it. If there's something sentimental to you that you can fit in a suitcase and have it be non conspicuous- such as photos or jewelry-bring it with you. Absolutely don't give the impression that you are leaving for good or even thinking about it. This is important for your safety. Remember, clothing, shoes- all these can be replaced. Pack just what you need of these items for your trip.

I think most legal work can be done online now.

I know you have a lot to think about. The first thing is to get yourself back to the US - and think about what you wish to do next.

[ForeverDad]

If your main reason to return is for "closure" consider that sometimes this doesn't happen.

Notwendy wrote many important points.  This one about closure, I have many times written that, when dealing with pwBPD, Closure is for You.  As a general observation, pwBPD will not perceive your efforts for polite closure and instead often use the expression or situation against you.  Sad but true.  Gift yourself closure without involving him.

Also, take the time to look back over the relationship, both before and after marriage.  What he did is who he is.  You are unlikely to 'change' him by very much, if any.  Typically these relationships worsen even more over time.  Ask yourself whether you are willing to expose yourself to that sort of future.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi bluebutterflies-

I was just thinking of you and wondering how you’re doing... how your trip to visit home in the U.S. went, and whether you’re back in your country of residence now with your uBPDh?

I’m hoping you were able to really take some time to relax and gather your thoughts about your marriage.  When you have a moment and if you’re up to it, please let us know how you’re doing.

Warmly,
Gems

[thankful person]

Hi blue butterflies,
I’m sorry to hear things aren’t going well for you with your husband. I remember talking to you when you first joined here. I’ve always been in the bettering board, trying to give others hope and encouragement. Things aren’t going well for me right now. I hope you’re ok.