Once again biting the dust

[Riv3rW0lf]

This weekend, I went to visit new friends I've made. I've been feeling off since coming back from there, and I kept thinking it had to do with opening up too much, maybe putting one of them uncomfortable, but I don't think this is it. I was triggered the whole week-end, and unable to process it, and I just realized it is because this trigger happened a few minutes after stepping out of the car, and it stayed with me the whole week-end, putting me off my game. And now is time to process it.

Those new friends are my father's neighbors. My father has been renting them a house he built a couple years back. We started hanging together because we have children that are the same age, who get along well. Since I've been away for 6 years, they were the first friends I found for my daughter, and they are a nice couple of friends too for me.

As I am writing this, my heart aches, and I feel little Riverwolf weeping inside, and while it hurts deeply, I think I finally understand one of the biggest hurt I've been carrying with me.

The trigger was simple. Upon stepping out of the car, my friend told me she had been talking with my father, who is currently traveling abroad, on vacation. They are not talking about the house, they are not talking about anything important really... just chitchatting and she said: "You haven't spoken with him?" To which I answered: "Well, I don't want to disturb him while he is on vacation." So she said: "Well, I've been speaking with him often and it never really feels like he is in a hurry to hang up." Maybe an invitation from her to speak with him if I needed to. Later on, she told me a story, that when she felt down and had no one to call, she called my father. My father somehow became a father figure for her. And the main hurt was this: when she told my father she was leaving to travel, and wouldn't be renting his house anymore, he cried...

My father never cried when I left my home province. He didn't seem to care. As I grew, the disconnect became more and more tangible. Even today, when we talk, there is an emotional disconnect that I can't seem to shake. Not on my end though.

I tried, and tried, and tried. And a huge part of my inner critic came from me looking for his love, for an emotional connection with him, as a young woman. As a child, he did take care of me, but as I grew, he disconnected, more and more. And now, I see him today connecting with his renters, tying close bonds with them, while he remains distant from me.

Last time he came, he sat next to me and told me he was proud of me and loved me, but we remain distant emotionally somehow, and he won't chitchat with me while travelling abroad, and he will not talk with me when he is visiting.

Truth is: I am jealous. I am jealous that he can love someone my age so much that he will cry that she leaves, and didn't seem to care when I did. I know I've hurt him, I know I've been a source of pain for him, with the triangulation my BPD mother created between us. But this triangulation never was apparent until I hit 18 years old, and I don't think my anger was because of my mother, but rather because I felt he had abandoned me somewhere along the way.

But what hit me this morning is that my father lost his sister and both his parents in a car accident when he was 24 years old. And he told me many times I looked like his sister. As I grew up, he started treating me more like a sister than his child, and the emotional disconnect became more and more tangible. And I think part of it is actually a protection for him. Because he lost someone he loved so very deeply, and I think I remind him of her, of how she died at 16 years old. And maybe part of him emotionally disconnected from me to prevent some kind of pain, in the event I ever died.

I am still thankful I had him around to make me feel safe when I was a young child. And now I understand better why the disconnect grew, as I myself grew and looked more and more like my aunt; my great aunt would call me by her name, mixing us up because I look so much like her. I always felt like my father had rejected me as a teenager. Like at some point, he cut the safe emotional tie there was between him and I. And I though it was my fault, but I remembered the confusion as a child. And as a teenager, well before I ever hurt him, how I felt he didn't care about me, how distant he was...

Now I understand better.

I wonder if we will ever someday be able to be close like we were when I was a young child, or if it is doomed because of the scars he carries.

Still... it hurt deeply to hear how close he is with her, and how much he loves her, a woman my age. It confronted me to the emotional disconnect he put me through as a teenager.

I love my father, and I never understood the rejection. Now I do, and I know I was never the problem, nor even the triangulation my mother tried to do... And I don't think he even realized it...

I wasn't the problem.

[Notwendy]

Oh my goodness, I think I'd have lost it in that situation.

I am so sorry.

There is nothing like the feeling of rejection from a father.  Dads are our first loves, our heroes and we need for them to love us back. Dads are our one and only Dads and we need to be important to them no matter how old we are.

But to add the thought of being replaced to this? I don't know how you kept your composure. I'd have started crying and would have had to leave.

Be good to yourself.

[lm1109]

My husband works at the same place(not the same company) as my Dad... and so they have mutual friends. It always makes me sick when I see people who know my Dad and they tell me what a great guy he is! It hurts because he wasn't/isn't a great guy to his children. He was the kind of Dad who gave all of himself to the "outside world" and then came home with nothing left to give to the people who should have mattered most.

I think it's easier for them to have relationships or get closer with people outside of the family because the past hurts and complexities do not exist with outsiders. Outsiders can see them as "great guys" but we, as their children, know all of the truths about them and so relationships with us are complicated.

Not sure if that resonates. I'm sorry you experienced such a painful experience. As Notwendy stated it seems that you actually kept your composure quite well considering the circumstance. Maybe you can be honest with him and tell him that it hurt you? Maybe it will open some doors to a deeper relationship or if nothing else an honest conversation.

[pursuingJoy]

My heart aches for little Riverwolf and the part of you that is still hurting. I'm so sorry you endured emotional distance and the heartache it left you with. And you understand your dad was hurt, too. With healing and emotional maturity comes the big picture, which you clearly get.

This reminds me of a thread titled: Was your BPD mom motherly to other children? Your dad didn't have BPD but I think the hurts expressed are similar. Link below.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=350624.0;topicseen

Would a conversation be productive for you? him? What would closeness look like to you now? 

I'm proud of you for doing this hard work. Giant hug and high five.

[Riv3rW0lf]

There is nothing like the feeling of rejection from a father.  Dads are our first loves, our heroes and we need for them to love us back. Dads are our one and only Dads and we need to be important to them no matter how old we are.

Notwendy, thank you for your compassion and understanding. I think for us especially, with the kind of mother we had, our father becomes, ergo, the only safe fall back. I read a lot on here on the enmeshed father figure, and while the nature of the rejection is a bit different (since my parents were separated), in the end, rejection is rejection. My father was not enmeshed with my mother, part of me wish I could blame her for it, and I guess I did recently. Now I have a clearer picture of what actually happened. It is not better or worst, but understanding helps resolve the confusion state I felt growing up, and helps the healing process.

It means a lot that you saw right away why I was hurt. I don't authorize myself this kind of pain. I am currently realizing just how much of a "thinker" I am. After writing this thread, I started telling myself it wasn't that bad, surely I was exaggerating... What you wrote helped me validate my hurt more and connect to my deeper feelings . Thank you.

I think it's easier for them to have relationships or get closer with people outside of the family because the past hurts and complexities do not exist with outsiders. Outsiders can see them as "great guys" but we, as their children, know all of the truths about them and so relationships with us are complicated.

Im1109, you are definitely hitting the nail on the head here.

My father and I have been through a lot, and now that I am an adult, I can see that he has a lot of patience but his love remains somewhat conditional: he would distance himself and cut ties to protect himself from pain if the time comes and with abusive people, even if they are his ciildren. I am not saying that I was abusive, but I definitely felt a lot of rage toward him as a young adult, and he sensed it, but I don't think he ever truly saw his own role in forming this rage to begin with. He can give empathy, but most often, he would ask for it.

He has changed a lot in recent years though. His wife truly is an amazing soul and I do think she helps him connect and feel more. My father is a "thinker" like me and he had a very hard time managing his emotions.

When I was a teenager, I remember him coming downstairs, crying because something was wrong with his girlfriend, and I had to somehow support him through it while I was myself deep in a hole, thinking of suicide, smoking marijuana as I had lost my best and only friend (she ran away and ended up moving away). I felt incredibly lonely, with no adult to guide me. He sent me a few lines under the guise of self-help conferences and books and I had to pick myself up.

I think we can all relate to this feeling of loneliness, and having to parent our parent. It is interesting for me to reconnect to the abandonment I went through with my father. I thought I had processed it but I guess any scar, even processed ones, can still be triggered once in a while.

Would a conversation be productive for you? him? What would closeness look like to you now? 

PursjuingJoy,

I have a lot of thoughts on a discussion and in the end, I don't think it is worth it. I've had plenty of conversations with him. Just before my wedding, I remember a phone discussion in particular when I told him I was just waiting for him to take his place as my father.

Since marrying my husband, I truly have been turned to a better future.

This event was a trigger of a past hurt I carry. But truly, while part of me is incredibly jealousd, the sane part is grateful that she was there for him during the pandemic, especially after his heart attack, while I was living away.

Now I am coming back and she is leaving, so I think, in the end, life will solve itself out.

I can sense my father wants to be in his grandchildren life, and I think, since coming back, that he has been discovering who his daughter actually is when "aware and awoken", and I him, because he did change a lot since my teenager years.  I think those things just take a lot of time.

Nothing will speak more than just being who I now am with him. With no expectation, nor clingyness.

I will be there if he needs me, be it for work, conversations, emotional discussions. And so far, it seems to me he wishes to repair the relationship as well, and be there for me, reminding me to be self-compassionate.

An open discussion would just trigger scars. I need to look at the recent present too, not just the past hurt.

Thank you all very much for your input. I feel like I've been able to process and free some lingering pain.

[zachira]

Riv3rW0lf,
It hurts deeply when it seems like other people who are not your parent's child, get the love and connection you did not get and deserved from your parent. "It seems like" are the key words here. It takes two to tango. Parents who are unable to have close relationships with their children do often know how to appear like they can love other children who are not their own, and the parent deliberately seeks out children who would be fooled by their acts of love and kindness. Child molesters target children who are desperate for attention and love. In my family, there are several mothers who I though cared about me, and there are many children of relatives who thought my mother was wonderful. As the years went by, I learned there is a pattern in my dysfunctional family, in which mothers do not love their own children yet are able to fool the children of other relatives who are looking for love into thinking that they care about them. It is like the person who is taken in by the lovebombing of a partner/spouse only to find out it was all an act to take control and abuse the partner/spouse.

[Notwendy]

Zachira- what you described is what my BPD mother does. She's been able to come across as a loving mother figure to other women my age, but it seems mostly self serving for the image and for the attention on her. I just let that go.

Riv3rW0lf's point that with a BPD mother, the father becomes the only safe parent and that was true for me too.

It's interesting that Golden Child sibling perceived him as emotionally unavailable and didn't consider it a close relationship. To me though, Dad was the one who acted like a parent to me, and I thought we were close.

If I look at this objectively, I don't think Dad treated us differently. We perceived it differently. GC got a lot of attention and approval from BPD mother so compared to that, it was less. BPD mother didn't pay much positive attention to me, so when Dad did, it seemed like a lot.

Riv3rW0lf- allow yourself to feel whatever you feel.

[Methuen]

... just chitchatting and she said: "You haven't spoken with him?" To which I answered: "Well, I don't want to disturb him while he is on vacation." So she said: "Well, I've been speaking with him often and it never really feels like he is in a hurry to hang up." Maybe an invitation from her to speak with him if I needed to. Later on, she told me a story, that when she felt down and had no one to call, she called my father...My father never cried when I left my home province. He didn't seem to care. As I grew, the disconnect became more and more tangible. Even today, when we talk, there is an emotional disconnect that I can't seem to shake.

Oh boy.  I'm so sorry RW.

But what hit me this morning is that my father lost his sister and both his parents in a car accident when he was 24 years old. And he told me many times I looked like his sister. As I grew up, he started treating me more like a sister than his child, and the emotional disconnect became more and more tangible... And maybe part of him emotionally disconnected from me to prevent some kind of pain, in the event I ever died.

Wow.  This is genuine, but intense insight.  This is a real testament to your strength and your character RW.  Amazing.

I wasn't the problem.

Good for you.  I hope this brings you some degree of relief and peace. The children are never "the problem".  They are children.  The problem is the deficiencies of the adults around the children. 

[Riv3rW0lf]

It hurts deeply when it seems like other people who are not your parent's child, get the love and connection you did not get and deserved from your parent.

Zachira,

Yes, I've read your post on the matter from September 2021. I can relate to what you have been through, seeing your mother being nice to other kids, and not to her own. I remember once, my mother took a young child into her arms, she was cuddling the baby, rocking him and singing songs. I was around 9years old and I couldn't hold it in, I burst into tears. Everyone looked at me in surprise and I had to leave the room... just very deep cries. I heard her say I was just jealous... I was, but not the way she meant, I hurt deeply because my mother never hugged me like that, not that I could remember anyway. And to this day I still can't.

I've seen her be an amazing grandmother to her grandchildren. She always has something planned for them, activities, nice gifts, she treats them and is available for them. It always triggered me how a good grandmother she could be, yet never found the time for us. How she can love my children, and yet hate me.

For my father though, the feeling is different. It's really like he saw me as his sister when I reached my teenage years, which lead to some kind of emotional abuse too, in a way. Because he expected me to act like an adult, to guide and support him like a sister could. But I was a daughter, not a sister. His idea of leaving me my freedom and trusting me came accross as not caring while he travelled from girlfriend to girlfriend, from heartache to heartache which I had to support him through, hearing everything about it. But he is not an abuser, not really anyway. He generally can support himself and he doesn't demand anything. I'd say he was emotionally immature and probably very lonely too, with no friend to talk to other and his teenage daughter.

GC got a lot of attention and approval from BPD mother so compared to that, it was less. BPD mother didn't pay much positive attention to me, so when Dad did, it seemed like a lot.

Notwendy, this reminds me of the dynamic I've witness at one of my friend's house. And truthfully, she told me herself about it, she is aware of it but somehow cannot change it...

She loves her youngest and never connected to her oldest. I've seen her push him away, telling him he got on her nerves when he was trying to give her a hug after school. This happened one time that when I went with her to pick him up. I remember thinking: if she is like this in front of me, how is she when I am not there? At home, she marvelled and hugged her youngest all evening. My heart broke. Truly. I ended up giving the oldest a nice gift for his birthday, went to tell him goodnight when he asked that night... Tried to show him some genuine affection by playing soccer with him when I visited, because he truly was a nice little guy.

Even today, he is genuinely nice with my 4 years old. I found her sitting with him. He stopped playing his game to put the camera on so she could try different filter on, because she knew his game was bad for her. She would hug him and he was acting all shy. He is 12 now. The youngest, who is 10, ignored her the whole visit, even when she asked him questions. He would just leave. Never even told me hi either. To me, this is strong anti-social behaviors.   

Anyway... The father is on the other side of the fence. He prefers the oldest and is not close to the youngest. The parents laugh it off saying they both have their child.

Now the competition between the two children is incredible, and they are both highly medicated because they developped comportmental (aggressive) behaviors as they grew up, especially the youngest one.

She is not borderline, the father either. But this is a very strange dynamic. I think this is also what my husband went through, but with both parents scapegoating him.

I think it is more frequent than we think? Even amongst families without a PD. Deeply traumatized adults acting like children, and traumatizing their own children.. Which leads me to Methuen's point:


The children are never "the problem".  They are children.  The problem is the deficiencies of the adults around the children.  

I wholeheartedly agree. I don't look at the world with the same eyes anymore.

I can see the dynamic of other families so easily... And it sometimes worries me that I can't completely see my own.