Advice needed. Am I being too sensitive? Red flags? Future dating

[WhatToDo47]

Hi!

Many of you know my story.

Recently, I am (slowly) starting to begin my search for my true wife and the mother of my kids. My exwpwBPD is long gone and the divorce has been done for a while.

I made an online dating profile, and was considering going on a date with a woman from there. Here are the relevant details:

We have been talking via text, phone calls, video calls.

I was planning to ask her out on a date.

She had been reciprocating and also getting to know me.

Tonight, she asked me to call her to “get something off her chest.” She told me that she went on a date tonight with someone else and that she felt bad and guilty about it because it was awful and she said it made her realize she cares for me instead. She said that she had reached out to a matchmaker before she met me (common in our community) who had set her up on a date with this other guy and that it was already planned before she met me, so she didn’t feel right cancelling it.

We aren’t officially dating and have only been talking a few days, so it’s not really cheating. I’m not really mad because of that, and I thanked her for her honesty, but something about how she didn’t tell me until after and then wanted to tell me how bad it went makes me feel like this is some triangulation/red flag.

She said she understands if I don’t want to continue getting to know her, if I needed time to think about it, etc. I said give me a day to think about this and she was fine with it and apologized many times. I do think she regrets not telling me about this until after.

Happy to clarify as this may be confusing haha

What do you guys think? Am I just over sensitive from my pwBPD? Is this a clear red flag and I should run for the hills?

[StartingHealing]

WhatToDo47,

I'm not trying to influence you but based on your description there is something "off" there.  It's not like you and that  gal are in a committed relationship so I'm confused on the "why" she would feel it necessary to confess what she confessed.

What is your gut telling you?  If your asking for others input, then I think you already know what the answer is.

Wishing you all the best.

[WhatToDo47]

WhatToDo47,

I'm not trying to influence you but based on your description there is something "off" there.  It's not like you and that  gal are in a committed relationship so I'm confused on the "why" she would feel it necessary to confess what she confessed.

What is your gut telling you?  If your asking for others input, then I think you already know what the answer is.

Wishing you all the best.

Thanks. That does help. She says that she felt necessary to confess because she said it’s out of character for her to do things like that and because she felt like it was a big mistake…

She’s very religious and so I was surprised also that she did/said that.

My gut is telling me that she’s a good person who just made a mistake and I should give her another chance, but my gut also got me into a 5 year marriage of hell with my expwBPD and massive debt to pay her off and PTSD haha

Trying to put into practice my new skills of watching actions not words. I plan to ask her some about her past (realizing I might get a skewed take) and look at those actions not just what she says.

Thoughts?

[StartingHealing]

Thanks. That does help. She says that she felt necessary to confess because she said it’s out of character for her to do things like that and because she felt like it was a big mistake…

She’s very religious and so I was surprised also that she did/said that.

My gut is telling me that she’s a good person who just made a mistake and I should give her another chance, but my gut also got me into a 5 year marriage of hell with my expwBPD and massive debt to pay her off and PTSD haha

Trying to put into practice my new skills of watching actions not words. I plan to ask her some about her past (realizing I might get a skewed take) and look at those actions not just what she says.

Thoughts?

WhatToDo47,

From what I have been through, I "vetted" my soon to be ex except that I didn't give it enough time.  I asked about her past, her family, her career, and things were presented in a certain way in order to present the best towards me.  I am suspecting that my ex started the manipulation process from the first time we spoke.

If you stop and think about it, how long can someone keep up a front?  This also needs to be taken into account.  If I had taken the time, say a year, I'm fairly certain that my ex's issues would have been made manifest.

 I'm also sensing that perhaps you are putting to much pressure on yourself in regards to the current situation.   

I am going to ask a question and it may be difficult for you.  Are you currently feeling like there is only this single chance to find a fulfilling relationship? 

 Are you flirting in real life as well?  Or is this only through digital devices?   I would suggest to seek opportunities IRL where you can flirt with others that you find attractive.  Not for anything except to have fun.  Some call it being "social".     

I do have understanding that having an attractive person sending sub-verbal communication your direction that is carrying the messages that they find you attractive.  What an intoxicating elixir.  Especially since the damage done to our self esteem, our own sense of attractiveness to the opposite sex. 

For me, the times where I was able to flirt in IRL, and it was responded to in a positive manner?  Holy Crap, that is such validation for me.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi WhatToDo-

Not intending to be an alarmist, but I’m not so sure your gut is seeing things that aren’t really there.  But the flags may be your own.  A few ideas...

Chicken, meet egg.  Frying pan, meet fire.  

So which came first the chicken or the egg?  Did she sign up with the matchmaker or the dating site first, or both on the same day to explore all avenues?  In the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter at all when an emotionally healthy person is looking for an emotionally healthy relationship.  However... did she lead you astray in any of your conversations over the few days you had communicated?  Before her “awful” date, her “mistake”?  Was she previously dishonest about anything about her dating status (that you now know of) to you?  And I’m wondering, was she dishonest with the guy she went on the date with...  or is this dating?

People do wade into a dating pool.  Test the waters.  Speak to different people.  Don’t they?  I truly don’t know.  I’m older.  When I was younger, if we were dating more than one guy, we told each other we were.  But what I DO NOW understand about my history is that most men I dated love bombed me hard.  I’d spend most of my time with my friends or my interests until someone really piqued my interest.  And then I became their “prisoner”.  Not proud of that after 25.5 years in disordered relationships.

And now for you.  You’ve only recently gotten out of the fire of a disordered relationship and are working on your healing.  You understand that healing is not linear.  And unless a person began detachment while in the throes of the marriage or relationship, I don’t believe true detachment begins for quite some time.  Your heart needs to catch up with your brain.  What your family and friends may think will move you forward may not actually be the thing that does it for you... only you will figure that out.  A measure of months is not a measure of readiness.

What I can tell you, is that it feels to me like you’re placing a LOT of pressure on yourself.  Please stop.  I know you want to find your true wife and mother of your children.  In time you will.  When you are healed and your heart is rested.  Let it be for a bit.  

I believe you can meet kind people, women and men, who may offer you friendship, ideas, exposure to new interests, who don’t have to be your life partner.  I’ve come to understand that if you go into something where the only thing you have in common is obsession with one another, you have nothing.  Or you have a disordered partner.

Finally... she said she’s “very religious”... many of our members have disordered partners who are very religious and who have engaged in worse than awful behavior.  I believe disordered thinking doesn’t subscribe to any higher being or holy text when it doesn’t suit a mood.

And SH is correct in what he says and suggests.

Please care for your heart.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

[kells76]

Hey WhatToDo47,

Great question from StartingHealing:

I am going to ask a question and it may be difficult for you.  Are you currently feeling like there is only this single chance to find a fulfilling relationship?

The vibe I'm getting is that there is a lot hanging on this date, for you. Is that close? Kind of like: "I MUST go and do the date... but there is possibly a HUGE red flag... so I MUST interview her about her past... we MUST talk about this HUGE confession before we meet... and it MUST get figured out ASAP."

OK, maybe I'm getting hyperbolic, yet something about all this gives off a feel of a "9 out of 10" in importance when I suspect it may be more "successful" to treat the date as a "chill, low key 3 out of 10".

This isn't to say "it's a 3 out of 10 so I can ignore red flags". Not at all. You have a lot of new learning to bring to these situations, and it's a good thing to try to pay attention to what your mind and body are telling you.

It's more...

this is a first date after a divorce. I suspect that going into it with a "checklist" of "OK, look for red flags, ask about the past, know she may be dishonest about the past, engage a lot about the confession" is way, way more intense than it needs to be and also kind of gives the (currently nonexistent) relationship way more reality and weight than it actually has right now.

It is 110% OK to both adhere to your values AND to not "over-weight" where you're at in the "relationship". I'm assuming, given that you mention religion and community practices, that you don't see dating as a casual way to get physical fulfillment and then toss the person when you're done. I understand that. Yet an alternative to treating dating "overseriously" isn't necessarily to "have flings" and treat potential partners like "toss them when you're bored".

You can find a middle ground of... it's just a first date, I'm not required to have another one. I can find out more, in a way, about someone through indirect means (you mention observing actions, which is a great idea) than asking direct questions about a list of topics. She will show you who she is even if you dont' ask "What were your past relationships like" on the first date. I would maybe steer clear of that question on Day 1. Again, to my ear, it gives "the relationship" too much "concreteness" that isn't yet there and may never be.

I wonder if you can just have a nice time on the first date without "relationship talk" or, at least, without you initiating "relationship talk".

You have the strength to walk away from this at any time in the dating process. It is OK to go on this first one and then not go out with her again. It's OK to decide "you know what, this is too weird even now, and I am not required to go on the date even though I said I would and we talked a lot". It's OK to go on two dates and then say "thanks for a nice time, I have decided for me to go another direction, I wish you all the best".

Not sure if this all makes sense, so I guess nutshell is:

don't hang so much on this first date. It feels SO heavy already. When there are expectations of "seriousness" and "I must find out if she is the one"... on Date #1... my gut feeling is that is too much. If I were on a first date with a guy and he asked me "tell me about your past relationships" that would actually be a red flag to me. too much, too soon. I'd be maybe more comfortable and feel less weird if conversation were around neutral topics like "so how long have you lived in Town", "are you a dog person or a cat person", "have you eaten at this restaurant before, what did you think", "so glad to be done with work today, had an intense project about XYZ". Really thinking you'll actually learn a lot, indirectly/tacitly, this way.

I think that you will perhaps have "clearer eyes" about her "deal" if you can approach the date in a way more low key way.

Maybe I'm just saying what StartingHealing said more succinctly 

*Edit: oops, cross posted with Gems!*

[once removed]

i dont see any red flags here. it all just seems a bit...convoluted?

the two of you are interested in each other, and getting to know each other, but not exclusive, and havent yet met. and she felt it necessary to confess to you that she went on a date?

its a nice gesture? its just one that strikes me as a bit unnecessary.

i think what matters here is how the two of you feel about it. she felt what she did was out of character, so she felt the need to disclose this to you.

do you appreciate the gesture? would you rather not have heard about it? was it upsetting? dont really care? would you have done the same thing?

[WhatToDo47]

Thanks for the replies, everyone! It helps a lot.

I do think I can put too much weight into relationships before they are even really relationships haha

You are correct in that I don't date just for superficial reasons or to "use" people. I am in general serious about what I do and especially with dating. I am also religious and one of the ways my expwBPD fooled me was by mirroring that and convincing me into marrying her, and then dropping the mask and "losing her religion" once we were married, so I'm wary of that.

I like the idea of focusing on meeting people in real life, in a more organic way. And I definitely need to keep in mind that I have the right to break it off at any point if I don't wish to proceed. A first date is not the same thing as marriage haha

I am happy that she told me what happened. I would prefer that to her not having told me. I think because of how my pwBPD cheated it just makes me not want to get emotionally attached to anyone who lies (which this new girl did because she said she was working on an assignment but was really on that date).

One of my challenges in recovering from my pwBPD is to slow down and not live at that roller coaster speed that she demanded of me, especially in relationships.

What did I forget to address? I'm writing this quickly so apologies for anything I left out. I did read and appreciate each of your replies.

 

[WhatToDo47]

Hi WhatToDo-

Not intending to be an alarmist, but I’m not so sure your gut is seeing things that aren’t really there.  But the flags may be your own.  A few ideas...

Chicken, meet egg.  Frying pan, meet fire.  

So which came first the chicken or the egg?  Did she sign up with the matchmaker or the dating site first, or both on the same day to explore all avenues?  In the scheme of things, it doesn’t matter at all when an emotionally healthy person is looking for an emotionally healthy relationship.  However... did she lead you astray in any of your conversations over the few days you had communicated?  Before her “awful” date, her “mistake”?  Was she previously dishonest about anything about her dating status (that you now know of) to you?  And I’m wondering, was she dishonest with the guy she went on the date with...  or is this dating?

People do wade into a dating pool.  Test the waters.  Speak to different people.  Don’t they?  I truly don’t know.  I’m older.  When I was younger, if we were dating more than one guy, we told each other we were.  But what I DO NOW understand about my history is that most men I dated love bombed me hard.  I’d spend most of my time with my friends or my interests until someone really piqued my interest.  And then I became their “prisoner”.  Not proud of that after 25.5 years in disordered relationships.

And now for you.  You’ve only recently gotten out of the fire of a disordered relationship and are working on your healing.  You understand that healing is not linear.  And unless a person began detachment while in the throes of the marriage or relationship, I don’t believe true detachment begins for quite some time.  Your heart needs to catch up with your brain.  What your family and friends may think will move you forward may not actually be the thing that does it for you... only you will figure that out.  A measure of months is not a measure of readiness.

What I can tell you, is that it feels to me like you’re placing a LOT of pressure on yourself.  Please stop.  I know you want to find your true wife and mother of your children.  In time you will.  When you are healed and your heart is rested.  Let it be for a bit.  

I believe you can meet kind people, women and men, who may offer you friendship, ideas, exposure to new interests, who don’t have to be your life partner.  I’ve come to understand that if you go into something where the only thing you have in common is obsession with one another, you have nothing.  Or you have a disordered partner.

Finally... she said she’s “very religious”... many of our members have disordered partners who are very religious and who have engaged in worse than awful behavior.  I believe disordered thinking doesn’t subscribe to any higher being or holy text when it doesn’t suit a mood.

And SH is correct in what he says and suggests.

Please care for your heart.

Your thoughts?

Warmly,
Gems

"Please care for your heart."

This is sage advice that all of us here need. For some reason, it really helps. Thank you

[SinisterComplex]

WTD...this will be easier said than done, but take a chill pill and relax. Seriously...you are putting too much undue stress and pressure upon yourself. What I am observing here is hypervigilance. I get it and I do understand, but make it a point to be aware of it yourself. You have to slow your roll as you even mentioned yourself. How about instead of over-analyzing and picking everything apart you take baby steps. Set mini goals and accomplish said mini goals one step at a time. No skipping steps or processes.

Also, let go of the perfectionist mentality. You are going to make mistakes and forget stuff...it is ok. You will still be cared for and respected just the same...I promise you...at least here for sure.

So simply put...please do yourself the service of trying to have fun, takes things slow, take care of yourself and be kind to YOU.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Turkish]

Going full Hannibal Lecter: she wants you to rescue her. Do you still hear the lambs bleating from your prior BPD relationship? (Armchair analysis).

Stepping back: she's vulnerable, but you're not committed. I'd keep engaged here. You're both free agents still, yes? At least she's honest.

[NotAHero]

Hi!

Many of you know my story.

Recently, I am (slowly) starting to begin my search for my true wife and the mother of my kids. My exwpwBPD is long gone and the divorce has been done for a while.

I made an online dating profile, and was considering going on a date with a woman from there. Here are the relevant details:

We have been talking via text, phone calls, video calls.

I was planning to ask her out on a date.

She had been reciprocating and also getting to know me.

Tonight, she asked me to call her to “get something off her chest.” She told me that she went on a date tonight with someone else and that she felt bad and guilty about it because it was awful and she said it made her realize she cares for me instead. She said that she had reached out to a matchmaker before she met me (common in our community) who had set her up on a date with this other guy and that it was already planned before she met me, so she didn’t feel right cancelling it.

We aren’t officially dating and have only been talking a few days, so it’s not really cheating. I’m not really mad because of that, and I thanked her for her honesty, but something about how she didn’t tell me until after and then wanted to tell me how bad it went makes me feel like this is some triangulation/red flag.

She said she understands if I don’t want to continue getting to know her, if I needed time to think about it, etc. I said give me a day to think about this and she was fine with it and apologized many times. I do think she regrets not telling me about this until after.

Happy to clarify as this may be confusing haha

What do you guys think? Am I just over sensitive from my pwBPD? Is this a clear red flag and I should run for the hills?

 Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes:

 I would go on a date with her with the best intentions. That does not mean you have to make a decision that she will be your wife. Go on a date, see how the e chemistry is, continue after and see where it goes. In the meantime watch for any more red flags.

 Try to avoid tunnel vision here. We are wounded but we are not trying to avoid just BPDs. If you are looking for a wife then any major  flaw in character is a problem. This incident does not tell you much about her, yet. It could be lack of judgement, lack of experience, or a manipulation technique to get you to commit faster than you are comfortable with.

 Get to know her and in the meantime also talk to others. That is ok, until you commit.

[WhatToDo47]

WTD...this will be easier said than done, but take a chill pill and relax. Seriously...you are putting too much undue stress and pressure upon yourself. What I am observing here is hypervigilance. I get it and I do understand, but make it a point to be aware of it yourself. You have to slow your roll as you even mentioned yourself. How about instead of over-analyzing and picking everything apart you take baby steps. Set mini goals and accomplish said mini goals one step at a time. No skipping steps or processes.

Also, let go of the perfectionist mentality. You are going to make mistakes and forget stuff...it is ok. You will still be cared for and respected just the same...I promise you...at least here for sure.

So simply put...please do yourself the service of trying to have fun, takes things slow, take care of yourself and be kind to YOU.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

Thank you SC! I definitely need to take a chill pill, which can be hard after dealing with BPD chaos. It is indeed hypervigilance. Mini steps and goals it is.

I think I’m still conditioned from the years of abuse from my ex that I have to be perfect and any mistake could mean disaster (her killing  herself or leaving). It’s nice to know that I don’t have to be perfect and that I’m loved here.

It’s funny because I give others the advice to be kind to themselves so often but sometimes forget to apply it to myself.

[WhatToDo47]

Going full Hannibal Lecter: she wants you to rescue her. Do you still hear the lambs bleating from your prior BPD relationship? (Armchair analysis).

Stepping back: she's vulnerable, but you're not committed. I'd keep engaged here. You're both free agents still, yes? At least she's honest.

haha Hannibal Lecter analogy is appreciated very much. I think I’m just so exhausted and don’t want to do any more rescuing in unhealthy, enabling ways.

We are free agents and you’re right I do appreciate her honesty. I’m 100% sure my ex would have just lied about it.

I agree with your advice.

[WhatToDo47]

Here is what I would do if I was in your shoes:

 I would go on a date with her with the best intentions. That does not mean you have to make a decision that she will be your wife. Go on a date, see how the e chemistry is, continue after and see where it goes. In the meantime watch for any more red flags.

 Try to avoid tunnel vision here. We are wounded but we are not trying to avoid just BPDs. If you are looking for a wife then any major  flaw in character is a problem. This incident does not tell you much about her, yet. It could be lack of judgement, lack of experience, or a manipulation technique to get you to commit faster than you are comfortable with.

 Get to know her and in the meantime also talk to others. That is ok, until you commit.

This is excellent. I plan to do exactly this. Thanks for crystallizing for me what I feel I should do. Excellent point about avoiding all major character flaws, not just BPD.

So I did speak with her today and she was wonderful. I asked her about her relationship history and she told me that she has never even had a boyfriend, which is actually probably true in my community and could explain her lack of experience. We are both still pretty young.

We agreed to keep talking and also to think about any hesitations we have. All of your advice helped me so much.

If we do seem to have good chemistry, we will go on a date. But one thing at a time.

I will aim to be neither naive nor hyper vigilant.

I hope you all know how much you’ve helped me!

[kells76]

Good perspective from NotAHero:

Get to know her and in the meantime also talk to others. That is ok, until you commit.

That can give you a barometer or metric, instead of having experiences only with her that are "siloed" off from any other comparisons.

I'm not saying this to encourage "comparison shopping" . It's not like when you choose a spouse, "you held a contest and she won".

It's more to say -- I wonder if your sense of normal behavior is kind of quantized right now, like "she's either an amazing chill fun low key 1 / 10" or "she's a totally insane abusive mental health crisis 10 / 10"

Observing how other women (and other people in general) act over time, towards you and towards each other, in normal settings, will help you build a different, less quantized scale for "normal ways to behave".

You may then be able to peg this girl's behavior not as either "1 /10 not an issue at all because she confessed" or a "10 / 10 she's only doing this because she's disordered", but as "well, now I see it's a concern level of 3 / 10, and I've compared it to some other women I've spent time with recently, and it's kind of in the middle of the behaviors I've seen".

If you are able to view spending time with her not as "pseudo pre marriage" level commitment, but rather getting to know a person and building a friendship, with the ability to step back at any time, then you may have a clearer view of how her behaviors compare in general to most people.

...

Consider also spending time in groups of people and/or with a service/activity focus. There can be an artificial acceleration of intimacy in the traditional "dating" scheme, where "two people do a thing called going on dates, where they spend time with only each other talking only with each other doing pleasant things only with each other". That in and of itself can create a prematurely false intimacy. Think about sure, doing stuff with her... in a group, with a focus that isn't only on "OK it's a group but it's for dating". Have it be a Habitat for Humanity thing, or packaging food at the food bank, or visiting the animal shelter, or doing Meals on Wheels, or joining a choir that sings at retirement homes, or...

I strongly suspect you will "be told" nonverbally a LOT more about who she is and what her values are that way, versus with "direct verbal questions". Watch how she treats other people who aren't just friends. Do you do things with her family? What does she say about them? Does she have grandparents? Can you help them with chores together?

I may have told this story elsewhere on the boards, but many years ago I dated someone who had a younger brother with Downs syndrome. It was a wakeup call to see his priorities -- I often wanted to do something "just us" but he would sometimes let me know that we needed to bring Brother along (he and his siblings and parents rotated who took care of the brother). That was "how it was" -- family was important and "having a date" was not more important than including and taking care of his brother. And that told me a LOT about his values and the kind of person he was. So that became the norm for us spending time together -- yes, sometimes it was just us, but at least 50% of the time one or more of our siblings were there, or it was a big friend/acquaintance group. Watching how a prospective partner treats family, friends, and exes is incredibly important, and I'd say more so than how they answer questions on a date.

Hope that helps...

kells76

[WhatToDo47]

Good perspective from NotAHero:

That can give you a barometer or metric, instead of having experiences only with her that are "siloed" off from any other comparisons.

I'm not saying this to encourage "comparison shopping" . It's not like when you choose a spouse, "you held a contest and she won".

It's more to say -- I wonder if your sense of normal behavior is kind of quantized right now, like "she's either an amazing chill fun low key 1 / 10" or "she's a totally insane abusive mental health crisis 10 / 10"

Observing how other women (and other people in general) act over time, towards you and towards each other, in normal settings, will help you build a different, less quantized scale for "normal ways to behave".

You may then be able to peg this girl's behavior not as either "1 /10 not an issue at all because she confessed" or a "10 / 10 she's only doing this because she's disordered", but as "well, now I see it's a concern level of 3 / 10, and I've compared it to some other women I've spent time with recently, and it's kind of in the middle of the behaviors I've seen".

If you are able to view spending time with her not as "pseudo pre marriage" level commitment, but rather getting to know a person and building a friendship, with the ability to step back at any time, then you may have a clearer view of how her behaviors compare in general to most people.

...

Consider also spending time in groups of people and/or with a service/activity focus. There can be an artificial acceleration of intimacy in the traditional "dating" scheme, where "two people do a thing called going on dates, where they spend time with only each other talking only with each other doing pleasant things only with each other". That in and of itself can create a prematurely false intimacy. Think about sure, doing stuff with her... in a group, with a focus that isn't only on "OK it's a group but it's for dating". Have it be a Habitat for Humanity thing, or packaging food at the food bank, or visiting the animal shelter, or doing Meals on Wheels, or joining a choir that sings at retirement homes, or...

I strongly suspect you will "be told" nonverbally a LOT more about who she is and what her values are that way, versus with "direct verbal questions". Watch how she treats other people who aren't just friends. Do you do things with her family? What does she say about them? Does she have grandparents? Can you help them with chores together?

I may have told this story elsewhere on the boards, but many years ago I dated someone who had a younger brother with Downs syndrome. It was a wakeup call to see his priorities -- I often wanted to do something "just us" but he would sometimes let me know that we needed to bring Brother along (he and his siblings and parents rotated who took care of the brother). That was "how it was" -- family was important and "having a date" was not more important than including and taking care of his brother. And that told me a LOT about his values and the kind of person he was. So that became the norm for us spending time together -- yes, sometimes it was just us, but at least 50% of the time one or more of our siblings were there, or it was a big friend/acquaintance group. Watching how a prospective partner treats family, friends, and exes is incredibly important, and I'd say more so than how they answer questions on a date.

Hope that helps...

kells76

I think you’re right. When I met my ex, I had so many friends and other parts of my life. She slowly isolated me from all of them over the years, even from my family. It was a part of her abuse, so that I would get more and more used to her crazy acting out behaviors and not have that barometer to compare her to. As a result, you’re right - my perspective is either 1/10 or 20/10 haha. Quantized is a good word for it.

Building a relationship is a lot less pressure than what I’ve been putting myself under. I need to take a whole bottle of chill pills hahahah

I never had trouble making friends before my expwBPD. I’m sure that my natural ease of meeting people and building friendships will return as I let myself relax and be myself again, not the abuse trained puppy she wanted me to be. Heck, in the 10 months since she’s been gone I’ve already made and reconnected with so many more friends than in the 6 years she was around.

I have a lot of places that I can put myself in those service minded groups. It’s something I’m passionate about and that’s important to me even without a dating context. I’m going to get more involved with them. I agree, it will help. Great advice and thanks for pointing that out.

Watching how a potential partner treats others is really important. I see that now. My ex always was cruel and mean to people in her life. I just thought it would never be my turn. How foolish of me. Now I know better. On the other hand, my ex saw how kind I was to everyone and became paranoid I would leave her for them or jealous that people liked me, so she isolated them from me by telling lies to and about them and by threatening me with suicide or leaving or any number of other awful things if I didn’t choose her over them and everything. It’s all so clear now in hindsight.

The story about the man you dated with the Down syndrome brother is new to me and very illustrative of the principle and helpful. Thanks for sharing! He sounds like a great guy.

Watching actions, especially towards people who can’t do anything FOR them, will be a key strategy going forwards. Actions, not words.

Thanks as always, Kells! Sage advice.

[kells76]

Building a relationship is a lot less pressure than what I’ve been putting myself under. I need to take a whole bottle of chill pills hahahah

Your process makes a lot of sense... you're seeing if being highly aware/highly concerned works for you, and there are ways in which it does. And you're also open to seeing if there are some parts of the process where you can relax a little and let things happen and have that be OK and not dangerous. The boards are so helpful as a place to work that stuff out. Kudos for thinking through what's important to you. No worries about "having to" take the chill pills, being extra aware/extra cautious has had its place in your life, so nothing to apologize for there.

I never had trouble making friends before my expwBPD. I’m sure that my natural ease of meeting people and building friendships will return as I let myself relax and be myself again, not the abuse trained puppy she wanted me to be. Heck, in the 10 months since she’s been gone I’ve already made and reconnected with so many more friends than in the 6 years she was around.

That's great to hear, WTD47! I hope you can reflect on that "ability" coming back and take some confidence from it. "Hey, I don't have to try extra hard or overcompensate... "me" inside can do it, I can start and maintain healthy relationships".

I have a lot of places that I can put myself in those service minded groups. It’s something I’m passionate about and that’s important to me even without a dating context. I’m going to get more involved with them.

Awesome! Another great context for seeing what "broadly normal" people are like -- and especially if there are "co volunteer" situations, you can see what people are like, outside of the "I'm putting my best face on" dating world.

Watching how a potential partner treats others is really important. I see that now. My ex always was cruel and mean to people in her life. I just thought it would never be my turn. How foolish of me. Now I know better. On the other hand, my ex saw how kind I was to everyone and became paranoid I would leave her for them or jealous that people liked me, so she isolated them from me by telling lies to and about them and by threatening me with suicide or leaving or any number of other awful things if I didn’t choose her over them and everything. It’s all so clear now in hindsight.

That's an important insight. Sounds like it took some time and distance to "put the pieces together" about it, even though you were there when it was happening.

The story about the man you dated with the Down syndrome brother is new to me and very illustrative of the principle and helpful. Thanks for sharing! He sounds like a great guy.

Funny story, he is now my brother in law's brother -- but we'd dated years before my DH's sister married his brother. Small world!

Keep us posted on how you're doing...

kells76

[WhatToDo47]

Your process makes a lot of sense... you're seeing if being highly aware/highly concerned works for you, and there are ways in which it does. And you're also open to seeing if there are some parts of the process where you can relax a little and let things happen and have that be OK and not dangerous. The boards are so helpful as a place to work that stuff out. Kudos for thinking through what's important to you. No worries about "having to" take the chill pills, being extra aware/extra cautious has had its place in your life, so nothing to apologize for there.

That's great to hear, WTD47! I hope you can reflect on that "ability" coming back and take some confidence from it. "Hey, I don't have to try extra hard or overcompensate... "me" inside can do it, I can start and maintain healthy relationships".

Awesome! Another great context for seeing what "broadly normal" people are like -- and especially if there are "co volunteer" situations, you can see what people are like, outside of the "I'm putting my best face on" dating world.

That's an important insight. Sounds like it took some time and distance to "put the pieces together" about it, even though you were there when it was happening.

Funny story, he is now my brother in law's brother -- but we'd dated years before my DH's sister married his brother. Small world!

Keep us posted on how you're doing...

kells76

Thanks, Kells!

I agree with you. I think, when I met my exBPD, I was wayyyy too relaxed with my red flag meter, I tried briefly to go to the other extreme (seeing everything as a red flag/hypervigilant). That’s not good either, no one is perfect or wants to be around someone so harsh. These boards are so helpful to help clarify. I hope these posts help others, too!

I do feel like “me” is starting to bubble to the surface again. When I’m not being constantly emotionally abused and gaslit and told how everything is my fault, I quite like myself and others do, too

Being in situations where everyone isn’t trying to put their best face forward I think will help with my recalibration. I feel like a veteran who just came back from war and need to re-learn how to live in “normal” society where there aren’t landmines and bombs and enemies everywhere haha

Yes for sure hindsight has helped. She was always cruel, always impulsive and quick to lash out, at herself and others. My T is right, if she cares so little even about herself as to try so many times to commit suicide, how could I possibly expect her to care about me or others? Love can’t solve everything, and it’s now ME acting in an emotionally unhealthy way to try and change her. She told me who she was by the way she acted to others, family, friends, acquaintances, exes. I just didn’t listen. The FOG has cleared.


Wow small world for sure re-that man you dated! Just goes to show you should treat everyone kindly, as you never know when your paths will cross again and in what context. Plus it’s the right thing to do.

My grandpa whom I love dearly says: To have friends, you have to be a friend.

He is right!

I will definitely keep you posted and keep posting!

Maybe I already said this, but, Kells, I remember you from almost a year ago when I was posting on the staying and conflicted boards, when I was still trying to save the marriage. Your words were so helpful then and they still are!

Have a great night all. You are all so wonderful and these boards are such a blessing!