Will 2 victims of ex’s with BPD be a good match?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

 Many similarities in “caretaker” personalities but also common fears of BPD tactics. Would welcome thoughts on this ?

[NotAHero]

 Many similarities in “caretaker” personalities but also common fears of BPD tactics. Would welcome thoughts on this ?

[AdRock]

It depends if there is a genuine attraction between them.  My therapist told me in relation to my depression and being a schizoid, if I met a woman like me I probably would not be very attracted to her.  There might be an ability to relate to each other but the biggest thing in common might be shared pain.  Now, if they were codependents (because you probably didn't mean npd's in this question I'm guessing) who acknowledged that they struggle with their own needs for validation, were both working on it, and recognize they deserve a caring partner, I could see it working.
I read on a Quora feed once about who would be the best match for a bpd and, once you sifted through a lot of angry posts, one woman claimed that codependents were probably much better for a bpd than a npd since they would be more caring.  But, as most on here know, that would only work if they were both getting the mental health care they need to make the relationship work.  I only bring that up because I think it's similar (while also very different) to your scenario.  Codependents are only going to change if they make the work to do so.  I say that as someone who if you have read my recent posts is feeling very much at rock bottom so I don't have the magical answer to how you do that.  But I'm trying not to feel lonely when I'm alone so I guess that's a start.

[Skip]

"Victim" is an interesting word choice.

pwBPD are destructive in their relationships.

But it was us who stayed long after the handwriting was on the wall, often coming back over and over trying to keep the relationship alive when our partner had lost respect, and it was us who struggled mightily to recover and in some cases, never really process what happened.

So, is it a good idea for two people with these life skills to get together?

All things equal, probably not. It is important the we recognize our weaknesses (e.g., mod-low emotional IQ) and get into a relationships (friends, romances, work environments, etc.) with a more emotionally mature people.

They give this same advice in AA (I understand). I make this point because the downside is easier to see.

[Sappho11]

I can think of three men off the top of my head whom I know well in real life, who've had BPD ex-girlfriends/wives.

Two of these men are intensely narcissistic, even though they initially hid it well – one is a covert, the other a communal narcissist.

The BPD – NPD magnetism is so common it has become a trope. So I'd be wary of anyone telling me of their experience with a BPD partner. Indubitably, there are many good people (often stable caretakers) who get drawn into these relationships through no fault of their own; but there are also plenty who get drawn into them because of their own grave personality issues and addictive patterns.

To answer the questions: Two caretakers would probably get along, but my gut says it's statistically less likely than one of the two having some sort of defect themselves.

[NotAHero]

"Victim" is an interesting word choice.

pwBPD are destructive in their relationships.

But it was us who stayed long after the handwriting was on the wall, often coming back over and over trying to keep the relationship alive when our partner had lost respect, and it was us who struggled mightily to recover and in some cases, never really process what happened.

So, is it a good idea for two people with these life skills to get together?

All things equal, probably not. It is important the we recognize our weaknesses (e.g., mod-low emotional IQ) and get into a relationships (friends, romances, work environments, etc.) with a more emotionally mature people.

They give this same advice in AA (I understand). I make this point because the downside is easier to see.

 I am referring to long term relationships were the goodness of the person was exploited to the full extent on both sides.

 It’s a very good point that a higher emotional intelligence would of probably prevented that from happening. Aside from that downside, both proposed “victims”  are highly accomplished in other areas of life.

  Would the drive to please, lessons learned about boundaries other aspects make up for the flaws? That’s why I wanted more input.

[NotAHero]

I can think of three men off the top of my head whom I know well in real life, who've had BPD ex-girlfriends/wives.

Two of these men are intensely narcissistic, even though they initially hid it well – one is a covert, the other a communal narcissist.

The BPD – NPD magnetism is so common it has become a trope. So I'd be wary of anyone telling me of their experience with a BPD partner. Indubitably, there are many good people (often stable caretakers) who get drawn into these relationships through no fault of their own; but there are also plenty who get drawn into them because of their own grave personality issues and addictive patterns.

To answer the questions: Two caretakers would probably get along, but my gut says it's statistically less likely than one of the two having some sort of defect themselves.

 If narcissism isn’t a concern, what would you think about the odds of it working? In the lights of what Skip brought up about impaired emotional intelligence. Granted intelligence&accomplishments in every other area of life is very apparent.

[NotAHero]

It depends if there is a genuine attraction between them.  My therapist told me in relation to my depression and being a schizoid, if I met a woman like me I probably would not be very attracted to her.  There might be an ability to relate to each other but the biggest thing in common might be shared pain.  Now, if they were codependents (because you probably didn't mean npd's in this question I'm guessing) who acknowledged that they struggle with their own needs for validation, were both working on it, and recognize they deserve a caring partner, I could see it working.
I read on a Quora feed once about who would be the best match for a bpd and, once you sifted through a lot of angry posts, one woman claimed that codependents were probably much better for a bpd than a npd since they would be more caring.  But, as most on here know, that would only work if they were both getting the mental health care they need to make the relationship work.  I only bring that up because I think it's similar (while also very different) to your scenario.  Codependents are only going to change if they make the work to do so.  I say that as someone who if you have read my recent posts is feeling very much at rock bottom so I don't have the magical answer to how you do that.  But I'm trying not to feel lonely when I'm alone so I guess that's a start.

 Codependency on both sides is a concern indeed. Enmeshment can only last so long. What are your thoughts on establishing some boundaries that would prevent complete codependency or enmeshment ?

[Riv3rW0lf]

The fact that you are wondering if it would work, wondering enough to ask it here, to people who not only don't know you in real life but also don't know the person you are talking about, tells me two things...

Either you are unconsciously picking up on a red flag and trying to bring it to your consciousness

Or you are still deeply traumatized from your previous BPD relationship and lost faith in having a healthy relationship, lost trust, and require more introspection.

Only you know which it is though...  No one can tell you if it would work or not, only your gut feelings.

Unless this is a hypothetical question?

Then as long as two people are healthy enough to stay within most of the time i.e. taking responsibility for their emotions and not trying to change the other, as long as communication is honnest and both ways, with both parties interested in the other's truth, then all relationship can work. It has to do with self awareness more than with past relationships. In my opinion anyway.

BPD relationship have one good thing to them : if you work them out well, they can teach you an awful lot about yourself and raise your self awareness tremendously... With one caveat: they can leave you deeply traumatized of others, and mefiant.

[NotAHero]

The fact that you are wondering if it would work, wondering enough to ask it here, to people who not only don't know you in real life but also don't know the person you are talking about, tells me two things...

Either you are unconsciously picking up on a red flag and trying to bring it to your consciousness

Or you are still deeply traumatized from your previous BPD relationship and lost faith in having a healthy relationship, lost trust, and require more introspection.

Only you know which it is though...  No one can tell you if it would work or not, only your gut feelings.

Unless this is a hypothetical question?

Then as long as two people are healthy enough to stay within most of the time i.e. taking responsibility for their emotions and not trying to change the other, as long as communication is honnest and both ways, with both parties interested in the other's truth, then all relationship can work. It has to do with self awareness more than with past relationships. In my opinion anyway.

BPD relationship have one good thing to them : if you work them out well, they can teach you an awful lot about yourself and raise your self awareness tremendously... With one caveat: they can leave you deeply traumatized of others, and mefiant.

     Thank you for your response.

 I do not expect a magical answer if it would work or not.  I believe that we share a lot in this community due to the similarities in the disorder dynamics. Been on these boards for almost a year. Many have great things to point out. As part of being methodical not to fall for another disordered person, I would rather get more ideas regardless. Already got some valuable input including what you added regarding what we gain from r/s with a BPD. The trauma is certainly there though was dealt with.

 One thing I learned is that no matter how good things look on paper, exploring possibilities and learning more does not hurt.

[Riv3rW0lf]

    Thank you for your response.

 I do not expect a magical answer if it would work or not.  I believe that we share a lot in this community due to the similarities in the disorder dynamics. Been on these boards for almost a year. Many have great things to point out. As part of being methodical not to fall for another disordered person, I would rather get more ideas regardless. Already got some valuable input including what you added regarding what we gain from r/s with a BPD. The trauma is certainly there though was dealt with.

 One thing I learned is that no matter how good things look on paper, exploring possibilities and learning more does not hurt.

Just wanted to clarify I didn't mean to "send you off" or invalidate your question... just pointing out some possibilities as to why you would be this cautious and need feedbacks, sending you back toward introspection, if it makes sense.

Because it is impossible for anyone to know what would work or not... Even if both are in the aftermath of a BPD relationship, people will not come out the same way... Only you can know. I get though, that spending years with someone with BPD has a way to mess with our gut feelings, my father certainly came out very guarded about everyone, me included.

[kells76]

Interesting discussion, thanks for starting it.

I am referring to long term relationships were the goodness of the person was exploited to the full extent on both sides.

 It’s a very good point that a higher emotional intelligence would of probably prevented that from happening. Aside from that downside, both proposed “victims”  are highly accomplished in other areas of life.

  Would the drive to please, lessons learned about boundaries other aspects make up for the flaws? That’s why I wanted more input.

One thought that came to mind is that often, we hear phrases like "suffering builds character" or "suffering leads to wisdom" or "suffering means you grow", etc. Those sound "nice" and "accurate".

I disagree.

I don't think that it's inevitable or mechanistic that if one has suffered, then one has learned lessons, for example.

What I do think is true is that suffering presents one with an opportunity to learn, grow, and gain wisdom. It's a pretty obvious doorway... if one chooses to take it. I will also comment that "benign" or "normal" things in life also present us with doorways to wisdom, if we so choose. What looks like pain and suffering to one person might be not a big deal or seem lowkey to another person, yet it's still an opportunity to gain wisdom, even if it seems like "not a huge learning moment".

If being in a difficult and painful relationship inevitably led to learning lessons etc, or if suffering inevitably led to growth and maturity... then I have a plan to put everyone through horrible situations, because then they'll grow, ! I think, though, that I can look out in the world and say: if going through a difficult relationship and lots of pain and victimization without fail led to us "opening our eyes", growing, changing, having better tools, etc, then way more people would be way healthier. But they're not, so I don't give much weight to "inevitable" or "mechanistic" ideas of relationship between pain/suffering and growth/learning.

I will comment that I am NOT saying you said that! It's more me riffing on a subtle related idea and sharing my POV.

Nutshell version is that I don't think there's anything fundamentally inherent in having been in a r/s with a pwBPD that "means" that the non coming out of it by default has certain tools, skills, wisdom, etc.

I think it's a personal choice what one does with that experience.

What's great is that you're here asking those questions, which says something about your personal, individual commitments and what you want to choose for yourself going forward. You see that "doorway", that opportunity, that your previous r/s with your kids' mom offers -- a doorway to learning, growth, wisdom, and you get to choose if you want that. This is a good place to work that stuff out.

Glad you're here;

kells76

[Skip]

Would the drive to please, lessons learned about boundaries other aspects make up for the flaws? That’s why I wanted more input.

If your heart is already into having this relationship, logic might complicate more than help.  

I'll be bold and say, you are not going to have a good long term relationship with anyone who doesn't have moderate to high emotional intelligence - not matter how wealthy, smart, attractive, or cool. Short term, 3 years, that's another thing.

And I agree with Kells... we have a lot of people pass through her and go on to be healthy emotionally mature people... and we have a lot of frequent flyers that have been here for more than one bad relationship.

[SinisterComplex]

we have a lot of frequent flyers that have been here for more than one bad relationship.

I just want to point out to the followers who may be afraid to post because they may feel ashamed because of being in these kinds of relationships multiple times...please always feel free to post and share. The key point to understand is that we are here as family and we are all trying to help each other learn and grow. We are not the enemy and there is no proving us wrong because we are only trying to help. So for the lurkers and the ones remaining in the shadows in silence...don't be afraid to post. Use this resource to your advantage and let us help you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[NotAHero]

Interesting discussion, thanks for starting it.

One thought that came to mind is that often, we hear phrases like "suffering builds character" or "suffering leads to wisdom" or "suffering means you grow", etc. Those sound "nice" and "accurate".

I disagree.

I don't think that it's inevitable or mechanistic that if one has suffered, then one has learned lessons, for example.

What I do think is true is that suffering presents one with an opportunity to learn, grow, and gain wisdom. It's a pretty obvious doorway... if one chooses to take it. I will also comment that "benign" or "normal" things in life also present us with doorways to wisdom, if we so choose. What looks like pain and suffering to one person might be not a big deal or seem lowkey to another person, yet it's still an opportunity to gain wisdom, even if it seems like "not a huge learning moment".

If being in a difficult and painful relationship inevitably led to learning lessons etc, or if suffering inevitably led to growth and maturity... then I have a plan to put everyone through horrible situations, because then they'll grow, ! I think, though, that I can look out in the world and say: if going through a difficult relationship and lots of pain and victimization without fail led to us "opening our eyes", growing, changing, having better tools, etc, then way more people would be way healthier. But they're not, so I don't give much weight to "inevitable" or "mechanistic" ideas of relationship between pain/suffering and growth/learning.

I will comment that I am NOT saying you said that! It's more me riffing on a subtle related idea and sharing my POV.

Nutshell version is that I don't think there's anything fundamentally inherent in having been in a r/s with a pwBPD that "means" that the non coming out of it by default has certain tools, skills, wisdom, etc.

I think it's a personal choice what one does with that experience.

What's great is that you're here asking those questions, which says something about your personal, individual commitments and what you want to choose for yourself going forward. You see that "doorway", that opportunity, that your previous r/s with your kids' mom offers -- a doorway to learning, growth, wisdom, and you get to choose if you want that. This is a good place to work that stuff out.

Glad you're here;

kells76

 Thank you for your reply.

 I believe you are right, being in r/s with BPD does not necessitate learning for the better. It can leave scars and more problems for the future.

 I would say I am more worried about those scars than enthusiastic about the wins of learning.

[Skip]

I would say I am more worried about those scars than enthusiastic about the wins of learning.

I've pondered this subject over the years because it is often raised.

Many of us coming off these relationships have a strong bias toward avoiding for red flags in our next relationships... disproportionate to trying to find a person with shared and quality values.

Think of how well that would work drafting football players - focusing on avoiding flaws that you have seen in the past, rather than looking for excellence.

[NotAHero]

I've pondered this subject over the years because it is often raised.

Many of us coming off these relationships have a strong bias toward avoiding for red flags in our next relationships... disproportionate to trying to find a person with shared and quality values.

Think of how well that would work drafting football players - focusing on avoiding flaws that you have seen in the past, rather than looking for excellence.

  The looking for flaws is almost involuntary after my last relationship.

 In fact I did NOT plan to start a relationship this fast ( been about a year since the break up with a some recycling attempts). It’s just happened that there are a lot of excellent qualities that drew me in and the logistics can work. 

 In addition, she is willing to take things slow ( low risk ). For example, we are on the same page already to have no plans to move in together in the foreseeable future.  Each have kids and no plans to have more kids…etc

 All that does not help sooth the underlying anxiety of investing emotionally. If I get tricked by another disordered individual how can I have confidence in myself ever again ?

[NotAHero]

I just want to point out to the followers who may be afraid to post because they may feel ashamed because of being in these kinds of relationships multiple times...please always feel free to post and share. The key point to understand is that we are here as family and we are all trying to help each other learn and grow. We are not the enemy and there is no proving us wrong because we are only trying to help. So for the lurkers and the ones remaining in the shadows in silence...don't be afraid to post. Use this resource to your advantage and let us help you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

 Thank you for that. One big advantage to having these forums is to stay connected to reality after being made to doubt it. As we move into new and hopefully better relationships this is part of the forum is almost crucial to help us avoid another potential failure.