Home care cancelled

[Methuen]

Yesterday I was shopping for our 2 week camping and kayaking trip which we are starting today.  It will be completely off the grid.  We are going into wilderness.  

Before I went shopping, I brought my mother two cucumbers from our greenhouse.  Since I am recovering from Covid, I put them at her back door,  stood in the middle of her lawn (which my H -also recovering from Covid had just mowed) and telephoned her to come to her back door.  

This was confusing for her.  She can’t hear or see well, and she struggles acutely with mobility and is a fall risk. She asked “who is this?”  She has early cognitive dementia.  Not so early any more in our opinion.  When she finally gets to the door, she couldn’t believe the cucumbers were from our greenhouse.  She loves cucumbers.  The conversation was stilted because she had trouble following it.  My sentences  were so short and simple, and playing to her needs.  “Your garden looks nice”.  She pays a gardener, who is also a flying monkey.  

Later, while I was shopping, I received a text that “I was the best thing that ever happened to her”.

I knew something was up.  She doesn’t say this.  

I stayed in the moment and focused on my shopping for the trip.  

Before I was finished shopping, I get a call from the home care supervisor.  He informs me mom called him to say she is doing her own eye drops and does not want or need home care any longer.  He explains he tried to talk with her and paid her a hous call, but she was unwilling to change her point of view.  So he was letting me know that there was nothing they could do, since she still has capacity.  

He referenced the last Rai assessment from last February that determined she did not qualify for assissted living.  It was done by the elderly services consultant who is a mental health nurse.  On a previous thread someone suggested this nurse must have her own issues or agenda.  I have probably had close to a dozen conversations with this individual over the past 3 years.  She has been informed of the dynamic and has heard my story.

I informed the supervisor that I was leaving on holidays the next day and I would be off grid.  He was alarmed.  Very sympathetic, and shared that his situation was very similar.  His parent is now deceased.  I also pointed out to the supervisor that when the Rai assessment was done, no input was obtained from family, and I pointed out that my mom was a nurse and knows how to answer the Rai assessment questions.  

He acknowledged the problem.  I also told him that when I call my mom, she isn’t sure who is calling.  

My mom has exercised her right to choose.  

While I am gone, there will be no family checking in on her, and no home care doing safety checks.  Home care staff say she has learned how to put her own eye drops in, despite her advanced Parkinsons.  

Today I leave on my trip.  I will be able to check in here a couple of times.  

I am beyond grief.  I don’t know where I am.  There is so much more going on to tell, but I must go now.  

I did not tell my daughter that her grandmother’s home care was cancelled.  I couldn’t put any obligation on her.  She has just started a new job, is studying for a national exam, and recovering from Covid ( lost 6 days of work) which she is distressed about

Any support or advice  is appreciated.  

[Notwendy]

Methuen, I am so sorry. I don't know if your mother is out of her mind or acting in some way to sabotage your trip.

It may be time to petition for POA over her. If she's really not in her right mind, you could call 911 to have her assessed and hospitalized? However, I support your not changing your vacation plans.

Yes, it's hard to see the possible impact of this kind of thing on another generation. But take heart- you did the best you can with what you knew at the time and you are a different mother to your child- and will continue to be. There is hope your D will see through this situation.

[zachira]

I am sorry your mother cancelled her home health care like you have feared she would do. It seems all you can do immediately is process your feelings until you are less overwhelmed and feeling better for the time being, though the feelings will likely come and go, as you are truly concerned for your mother's wellbeing. In the long term, there is the possiblity of making some formal complains about the assesment done by the mental health nurse saying your mother does not qualify for assisted living. Doing theses complaints, will possibly protect other elderly clients from this nurse's incompetence and could serve as a warning to other mental health care providers.
Do you know how other people close to your daughter feel about her boyfriend? Is there somebody whose feedback she especially values? You could set a boundary that if your daughter is living with you, she has to be in therapy.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Methuen,

I support what Notwendy says that it seems your mother has decided in wreaking havoc around her everytime you have vacations or are leaving with your husband somewhere to enjoy a respite, and life.

However, no matter how old and incapable she is : you did your best, you provided for her beyond belief and the government truly is the one that let you down. I believe there is not much you can do against a system that is overused. I seem to remember you are in Canada like me? If that is correct : our system is broken, stretched beyond its limit and controlled by pencils-pushers who seem incapable of using their judgment. Some things are simply out of our power.

I recommend making peace right now with whatever could happen as a result of this reality... I am very sorry.

They are already already codependent.  Their  relationship was born when they were both emotionally vulnerable.  He is creating a wedge in her relationship with her family.  I am hoping we aren’t losing her.  I love my poor sweet accomplshed daughter so much.  

Now... What I am about to write sometimes rub people the wrong way, but this is my truth, the one that helps my feeling of inner peace, and so, I am sharing it with you, but you are free to leave it and know that it is in no way meant to hurt you:

Your daughter was never yours. You cannot lose her, because she was never yours to lose.

Children don't come from, they come through. They have a journey of their own, and decisions of their own to make.

As parent, we are responsible for their emotional and physical safety, we are there to love them, and while we want to guide them, it is, in the end, their life, their journey.

It is a difficult balance, to love a child knowing they aren't ours, to be there for them knowing they will at some point reject everything we are and gave to them, hoping that they will someday see and understand who we were... Which they will if and when they become parents.

Your daughter chose a specific relationship for a specific reason.

I just talked with my father, he told me I was doing well in his house... He never saw how broken I actually was. This is not to say that your daughter is broken, this is to say that as parents, our vision is blurred when it comes to our children and we have to trust them... To trust that life, the universe, whatever your faith is... To trust that they will be guided toward their peace, whatever their peace is...

Have faith. Be there for her. But let her walk her own path. And trust her.

I understand your grief and your fear... But you cannot lose her for a bond between a daughter and a mother is special. You live through her... And if I believe that, with the mother I have, imagine how solid this bond is in a healthy relationship.

 

[Notwendy]

a bond between a daughter and a mother is special

I think it should be, but I also I think it requires that they value it. I don't think my mother has ever been emotionally bonded to me. I also think there are examples on the parent board where adult daughters are not, and it's heartbreaking for the parents.

I don't see where this is the situation between you and your D Methuen.

However, I understand your fear. I have seen the power of a pwBPD to split families and to split the parent- child bond. I thought the bond I had with my father was special but it apparently was not unbreakable on his part.

You know though, that if you intervened, it would backfire, and the two of them would bond against you. This phenomenon is well documented. The advice is to not get into this variation of the Karpman triangle. These two are living with you. Be careful to not enable them in this drama. I understand that a lot of adult children are living with their parents due to economics and the pandemic and I would want them to have a roof over their heads too. But try to stay out of their drama, not take sides. Let her deal with him and his emotions.

Keep in mind, you see what you see and know what you know because of your experiences. She will have her own learning ones. Of course protect her from serious harm but if he's being a jerk, let her deal with that. I hope that for both of you, she will value your relationship with her and not let BF come between you two. But you have given her unconditional love and you are not like your mother.

[Riv3rW0lf]

I think it should be, but I also I think it requires that they value it. I don't think my mother has ever been emotionally bonded to me. I also think there are examples on the parent board where adult daughters are not, and it's heartbreaking for the parents.

Yes Notwendy, I agree with this. I think, in the case of severe dysfunction, nuances have to be considered. For me though, the bond, not matter the value we put onto it, remains special...

I never bonded emotionally with my mother either, despite having been the golden child at times. The peak of her dysfunction was when I was a very young child and we were left alone with her, a raging alcoholic. She terrorized me...

But her failures morphed into my successes, didn't they?

I still remember her coming home drunk, and thinking : "I will never be like this woman."

Yet, she still lives through me...everytime I cook diner for my children, home cooked meals every night, like she did. What I buy, what I keep in my fridge... Very similar to hers. The dessert I make are those of my childhood. My habits were influenced by her like no one else because she is my mother... The first example I've had of what a mother, a woman is.

I modified it, I refined it, but she is where I started. And despite the hurt, despite the anger, despite the estrangement, I have to somehow come to terms with it, with the fact that she lives through me...  Or else I will hate the parts of me that are her... And 50% of me comes from her...

[Mommydoc]

Methuen, I have been thinking about you and hope you had an amazing vacation. You deserved it, and though it may not have felt like ideal timing, it might have been exactly what you needed to have the appropriate boundaries. You did the right thing not asking your daughter to check on your mother with all she had going on. I hope she is OK, and know how painful it can be when a significant other comes between parents and their kids. Just keep letting her know you are here for her and try to compartmentalize the two situations. I am thinking you may be back now (or soon) and wanted to offer support. Maybe things needed to get worse with your mom before they got better. Hope you had a great time camping.

[Methuen]

though it may not have felt like ideal timing, it might have been exactly what you needed to have the appropriate boundaries. Just keep letting her know you are here for her and try to compartmentalize the two situations. I am thinking you may be back now (or soon) and wanted to offer support. Maybe things needed to get worse with your mom before they got better

It is accurate to say the timing was right.  It was a godsend.  Our two weeks off the grid and in nature was food for my soul.  Things are functioning better at home now.  And we are all recovered from miserable encounters with Covid.  The break was good for all of us. 

The day we arrived  home, D’s bf told me that when he and D went to visit my mom, mom asked him to put in her eye drops. 

Knowing the situation, he and D reminded her she was able to do it herself (since she cancelled home care because she “could put in her own drops and didn’t want to be treated like a child”).

Mom also told him he needed a key to her house.  He insisted he didn’t- that he would always be coming with D ( who has a key). Mom apparently kept coming back to the key. 

My working theory is that she was maneuvering to set him up to meet her needs.  He didn’t bite - he’s heard too many stories from D.

Mom is telling all of us how lonely she is.  Duh! Instead of feeling bad for her, it irritates all of us.  Her loneliness is her choice.   Meanwhile, her neice 10 years younger and much much healthier in every  regard just moved into assisted living by choice and is happy to be there.

Our D ( a health professional) says mom will likely have another fall within 6 months.  Knowing her, it will be shocking if it takes that long.   It is likely to be catastrophic since her bone density T score is -5.4.   

Meanwhile she could be living a social and engaging life in assisted living, where she could also get real support for all her medical issues, instead of complaining to me, since I am not a nurse. 

It’s beyond comprehension.  Today I brought her peaches.  She couldn’t hear me, so I had to almost yell so she could hear.  She’s always asleep on the couch, and is often in her PJs.  When I interact with her now, it’s similar to interacting with an elderly lady down the street that I hardly know. 

It’s just weird, and pretty awful.  Awful to see her like this at the tail end of her life.  Awful to not have a relationship with my mother.  Awful to see her lonely.  Awful to see her losing her faculties.  Awful to be powerless to help her.  And awful that I can’t be myself with her.   

[Notwendy]

It’s just weird, and pretty awful.  Awful to see her like this at the tail end of her life.  Awful to not have a relationship with my mother.  Awful to see her lonely.  Awful to see her losing her faculties.  Awful to be powerless to help her.  And awful that I can’t be myself with her.   

I agree Methuen. It is awful.

The need to enlist people as caretakers has an emotional aspect that is hard to comprehend exactly but it fills an emotional need and may also be a physical/medical need as well. My BPD mother manipulates people into doing things for her, even without a physical need- things she could do herself even- but somehow she needs people to do these things for her.

Now that she has physical needs- and she is thankfully able to pay people to assist her, it doesn't fill the emotional need in the same way. There's also a sense of control in this mix. A professional is caring for your mother- because it's their job. Even if they are caring people, this doesn't make your mother "special" to them. They are paying attention to her because they are professionals doing their job.

When she wants you or your H, or D's BF  to help her - it's an act of caring for her- it's a connection. He's not doing it for anyone else. It's an "I am doing this for you because you are so important to me" to her. It's got nothing to do with money or ability to pay- there's something about having professionals do it that doesn't fit that need- and so if they do the drops- then there isn't a need on her part to ask you do do them.

I hope this makes sense. I notice this with BPD mother. There was a time we were visiting and she wanted one of my kids to take the trash out for her. Child was busy so I offered to take it out. She refused- saying "I want grandchild to take it out". I picked up the trash and took it to the outside bin. She got upset. There was a need for the trash to be taken out- but if that was the only reason, then she would not care who took it out as long as the job was done. But somehow my doing it wasn't what she wanted.

It's not that either of us is unwilling to help to the extent we can, but the relationship also involves triangle dynamics and is emotionally abusive. It does feel like we are interacting with an acquaintance, not a parent. Sometimes I feel like I am her servant.

[Mommydoc]

So glad your trip was restorative Methuen and that things have stabilized. It’s great how D’s BF handled your mom! I think your D is right, if not a fracture some major set back. The situation will likely continue downhill. It’s got to be hard to watch. Awful is the right word.

It's not that either of us is unwilling to help to the extent we can, but the relationship also involves triangle dynamics and is emotionally abusive. It does feel like we are interacting with an acquaintance, not a parent. Sometimes I feel like I am her servant.

Methuen, you have  amazing boundaries and yet she continues to abuse you emotionally. I relate so deeply to Notwendy’s comments. As hard as we try to let go of their grasp on us, they always keep finding ways to maintain control over us. We are not their servants and we each deserve to offer support on our (reasonable) terms not their (unreasonable) terms. It seems simple conceptually, but it’s hard.

[Methuen]

Since we got back from our trip, my mom has been messaging how lonely she is.

 

While we were gone on our trip, she also told grand daughter how lonely she is. 

Mom stubbornly refuses assisted living because she has this crazy idea that once she is there, everyone will forget about her and no one will come to visit.

It’s also about control.  She would be giving up some of control if she went into a facility. 

She makes up lies about the facility to fit her narrative about why she won't go there.

So when she texts she is lonely I want to respond by asking her “what can you do about your loneliness “?

I don’t want to hear she is lonely.  She has brought that on herself. 

When home care was coming, she at least had social contact, but she cancelled home care.

How to respond, so that these texts stop coming?  Or just keep ignoring them?  Thoughts?

Blocking her isn't an option.

[livednlearned]

This may not be possible with your mom -- my pwBPD is my stepdaughter. She used to text to the point I thought I was going to have a heart attack.

I've never known anyone to text like she does. The volume was next level. It seems melodramatic to say this now but it felt like her texting was going to end my marriage to her dad, who is trained by decades of pagers to answer all calls immediately.

Now, almost a decade later, I respond to 1 out of 10 texts, and only with emojis.
Emojis are not satisfying to SD25 and they also acknowledge her.

Separate thought ... you mentioned your mom has a niece who is in assisted living. What if you were to visit the niece and then report to your mom how niece is doing?

No reward for "feeling lonely" texts. But adjacent rewards given to people who are in assisted living.

[Notwendy]

I think the aspect of these communications is that they come from a need they have that you are expected to take care of.

My BPD mother will call "to ask a question" which is really the leader for her to get a need met. We all know the "I have a question" is the first step to this and probably not th entire reason for her call or text.

As soon as we say we are visiting - her next reply is "oh good you can do X Y Z for me". Golden Child is visiting in a few weeks and she says "oh good, there are things I need GC to do for me".

She will do that with the grandkids too- call to "ask advice about something" like what kind of phone or computer she should get as supposedly they know all about these things. It wouldn't bother me if this is what she wanted- but it's a way to get their attention and meet some emotional need.

If, instead of saying "I'm lonely"- your mother said something like "it's good to speak to you and I hope we can talk again soon" or "I'd love to hear all about your vacation" it would be more that she would like to see you. "I'm lonely" sounds like "you need to meet this need".

If instead of saying when I visit "oh good you can do all these things for me" - my mother would say " I am looking forward to seeing you" it would be less about me doing something for her and that the relationship matters. I am glad to run errands for her and help while I am there but I don't get the sense the visit matters more than that.

[Mommydoc]

So sorry Methuen. I have a similar process to Livednlearned:
- if text is positive, I respond positively relatively quickly, sometimes with a positive emoticon, or heart.
-if it is neutral, I “like” it to acknowledge it and usually wait 24 hours to respond
-if they are negative, I don’t acknowledge at all

And when things get really bad I have blocked my phone and kept her unblocked on my iPad, which my husband then screens for me though the day. I made the mistake yesterday of responding to an “urgent” text, but when I confirmed it was her just wanting to rant I told her “after work at 5 pm”

My sister wBPD tends to rant in texts and I find often when she hits 10 with no response, she stops.

[Couscous]

So when she texts she is lonely I want to respond by asking her “what can you do about your loneliness “?

I don’t want to hear she is lonely.  She has brought that on herself. 

I could be way off base here, but what it sounds like could be happening here is that part of you believes that you are responsible for you mother’s feelings, and maybe are even to blame for them — or, at the very least, are to blame for not being able to alleviate them — (it’s not MY fault you are lonely, it’s YOURS) which will then trigger feelings of shame. And the feelings of shame are covering up the much more painful feelings of sadness and helplessness over your mother’s loneliness.

 

[Notwendy]

Shame is one possibility-

For me, I think it's about the conflict between what I would like to be able to do and what is feasible for me to do.

I my own "world of values" I'd have been more connected to my elderly mother, like I have seen my friends do with their parents. Even if it's difficult- such as if the parent has dementia- the parent would be in assisted living nearby and the adult child would see them often.

But these relationships require some cooperation and regard for boundaries, and honesty in communications. I think all functioning relationships require this. I need to be able to work cooperatively with co-workers - even if we aren't best friends- we need to come together on a task and agree--- this is how it's going to be done. I don't just barge into my next door neighbor's house or bang on their door whenever I want to. And I don't verbally or emotionally abuse the people I know. They don't do this with me. These are the unspoken agreements between people.

I have tried to approach my parents in this spirit- "I would like to help you, can we work together on this?" and it's been met with resistance, raging, verbal, and emotional abuse.

With BPD mother, there has been no honesty, no transparency, no cooperation. There is only one kind of relationship that is acceptable to her and that is complete submissive servitude and no resistance to her verbal and emotional abuse. It's not just difficult. I understand that helping the elderly can be difficult at times. It's inhumane.

I think the sadness is that this is a continuum of the wish for a "mommy like my friends have" starting at the time we were old enough to go play with our friends at their houses and we began to see that the way their mothers acted were different than the way ours did and we didn't understand why. Maybe it was seeing their mother's bake cookies for them, or how they communicated differently.

There was shame there- I was afraid to bring friends home because I wasn't sure what "mood" my mother would be in. We hid it because we wanted to appear "normal" like our friends but our family life was different. There's disappointment because as kids we  didn't have much ability to make a difference. As an adult, I thought maybe it would be possible and I tried but it didn't seem to work but I think kids wish they could make it work and we still have that wish in a way- to have a "mommy" to take care of us when we are little, and to have a caring relationship with them when they are older. This is the "normal" we observed with other families as kids.

[Couscous]

Shame is one possibility-

When you grow up in a shame-based family system with parents who have shame management issues, the tiniest things can set off feelings of shame, and most interactions with our families of origin, especially our parents, are pretty much guaranteed to trigger shame in us — it’s usually our ‘go-to’ emotional response. But shame is a much easier emotion to deal with than feelings of grief and powerlessness over others. Toxic shame is really no different than anger in the way that it acts like a secondary emotion by masking even more painful underlying emotions.

Menthuen, your mom’s guilt and shame inducing texts about her loneliness are an attempt by her to offload her own pervasive feelings of shame onto you, and if she succeeds then she will momentarily feel better. If you don’t take the bait and instead can reply with a cheery, ‘Sorry to hear that, here’s a virtual hug. Hope you feel better soon! I’ll be dropping by as planned on xx. Look forward to seeing you then!’, she might actually stop sending these kinds of texts because they are not having the desired effect.

[Methuen]

LNL answering with emoji’s: this could work.

Like you and Mommydoc,  I rarely respond immediately (and only if it’s  positive).  I most often don’t respond at all.  To the texts I do respond to it is usually a day later when I have had plenty of time to calm down, think rationally, and craft a suitable  response.

My problem is MY response to her texts of  loneliness.  Since she brought this on herself, I don’t want her invading my space trying to make me responsible for it.  I am not, but I despise it that she tries. 

Couscous- - sure she’s trying to FOG and project her shame onto me, but I don’t feel shame.  I just continue to lose respect for her with these behaviors.  Pity? Yes.  Frustrated with her behaviors? Yes.  Resentful? Probably.  Shame? No

But I’m also not really comfortable pitying and not respecting my mom. 

In the moment, when she sends this type of text, I have a visceral  and resentful instant reaction.  This is what I need to work on.. 

Like you NW, my mom expects me to be her servant.  Once she gave birth to me, my purpose was to make her look good and feel good.  Now in her old age and rapidly declining health, my purpose is only to take care of her physical and emotional needs.  I tried to be a good daughter and do that, but of course nothing was ever good enough, and the close contact led to severe emotional abuse.  That is when I found this forum - 3 years ago.  When I came out of retirement last January to take a new job she raged nuclear on me - because I wasn’t available to meet her needs - physical or emotional.  She projected many things onto me including her selfishness.  Because she has so many complex health issues, home care was involved.  It is difficult to articulate just how much she hated and resented this .  Probably because it wasn’t me doing it for her, and because in her mind its a bad “look” if home care has to come take care of her.  So she cancelled home care.  Now comes all the loneliness texts.

I am ok letting her sort out and work on her own feelings. 

I was kind of hoping someone would have a magic quippy reply to make the loneliness texts stop.  They feel like an invasion of my space.  I realize there are no easy answers.

I am just sick and tired of it.  And resentful that she isn’t a grown up. And that she keeps demanding and invading.  And that I can’t verbally respond in any way that wouldn’t escalate.

Thanks everyone for the replies. 

[zachira]

Maybe offer to hire a caretaker so she won't be so lonely or remind your mother that she would not be lonely in assisted living. She would probably hate to hear both of these things and stop talking about being lonely though she will come up with something else to say or do that is triggering to you, no doubt. You might look into how to use 'change talk" from motivational interviewing with your mother.

[GaGrl]

Maybe offer to hire a caretaker so she won't be so lonely or remind your mother that she would not be lonely in assisted living. She would probably hate to hear both...

This occurred to me also. While she rejects home health visits, a caregiver who comes to the house, say, three times a week for 3-4 hours a visit would give your mom "control" over the caregivers activities -- and an experienced caregiver can head off any activity that could result in a fall.

Before we retired, my mom had a caregiver three times a week for 4 hours. She did laundry, housecleaning, made breakfast and lunch and put up meals for supper, drove to doctor appointments, assisted with showering, and helped pay bills. She was a trusted family friend and a CNA -- and very much a companion.

When we retired, Mom asked if we should cut back to 1-2 days a week, and I immediately said, "Oh, God, no!" (It just popped out.) But keeping the caregiver allowed me to enjoy retirement and for us to travel.

[Couscous]

I was kind of hoping someone would have a magic quippy reply to make the loneliness texts stop.

Oh, yeah LOL, that’s good that you figured that out, because it is definitely not possible to make her stop contacting you.

[Notwendy]

My BPD mother has caregivers. One problem is that they are very expensive. Someone to come in a few times a week would be affordable for her, and would meet her needs but they don't meet her emotional needs. Emotionally she wants someone to be available at her service whenever she wants it. Dad fulfilled that role for her and she would have me do this too, if she could.

She engages in the same kind of emotional drama with her helpers at home. None of them are good enough and so they don't last long under her employment- either she fires them or they quit.

Physically, her needs can be met at assisted living, but that won't meet her emotional needs. She can choose to spend all the money Dad left her and also the value of her house as it belongs to her. She'd drain all Dad left her and completely bankrupt us if she could- and she'd care less if she did- so we can not get involved in hiring people for her.

Offering to hire someone to help her would backfire. She'd find something she doesn't like with that person and it would be a waste of money. The one time it did work is when we attended a family event and hired someone to be with her for the day. That went well as she liked the person but it won't work over the long run.

[livednlearned]

I’m also not really comfortable pitying and not respecting my mom. 

In the moment, when she sends this type of text, I have a visceral  and resentful instant reaction.  This is what I need to work on.

Methuen, this is one of my biggest challenges too.

I feel like the way I respond lets me down.

It doesn't feel good to have revulsion or resentment towards people. I resent that.  

I can't shake the feeling that my nervous system has been permanently set to hypervigilant. It's possible to interact skillfully but internally it feels like I am still paying a big chunk of the emotional cost. I suspect some of these challenges are rooted in codependency, like the desire to be *perfect* at a relationship with someone disordered. Or, not wanting to feel like my invented *code* is compromised, whether it's being altruistic, or being a people pleaser, or avoiding conflict.

There is something about a person who is in the ballpark of being a real victim (e.g. aging parent, or, in my case, a traumatized young adult) that really yanks my chain. Except with BPD, it's a black hole of victimhood mixed with self-created chaos.

It's very difficult to override those hard-wired instincts to be there for someone who needs it (who also actively works against it).

I remember reading something written in a book by BPD sufferers how terrified they felt about succeeding. Doing well generated anxiety because doing well meant people would leave them.

Your mom's health issues and age make her genuinely needful, but she is sabotaging that help, insisting she can't succeed with your help specifically.

I keep thinking with disordered people in my life that I will find equilibrium and be able to respond authentically to whatever unnecessary mess I encounter, but I'm not sure that exists.

[Notwendy]

Methuen, this is one of my biggest challenges too.

I feel like the way I respond lets me down.

It doesn't feel good to have revulsion or resentment towards people. I resent that.  

I can't shake the feeling that my nervous system has been permanently set to hypervigilant. It's possible to interact skillfully but internally it feels like I am still paying a big chunk of the emotional cost. I suspect some of these challenges are rooted in codependency, like the desire to be *perfect* at a relationship with someone disordered. Or, not wanting to feel like my invented *code* is compromised, whether it's being altruistic, or being a people pleaser, or avoiding conflict.

There is something about a person who is in the ballpark of being a real victim (e.g. aging parent, or, in my case, a traumatized young adult) that really yanks my chain. Except with BPD, it's a black hole of victimhood mixed with self-created chaos.

It's very difficult to override those hard-wired instincts to be there for someone who needs it (who also actively works against it).

I remember reading something written in a book by BPD sufferers how terrified they felt about succeeding. Doing well generated anxiety because doing well meant people would leave them.

Your mom's health issues and age make her genuinely needful, but she is sabotaging that help, insisting she can't succeed with your help specifically.

I keep thinking with disordered people in my life that I will find equilibrium and be able to respond authentically to whatever unnecessary mess I encounter, but I'm not sure that exists.

I can so relate to this. It doesn't feel Ok to have this feeling towards my own mother. Perhaps it's our culture/religion that says this. However, when the mother is also the abuser, we struggle with wanting to feel the way we are expected to feel and the feeling we have towards someone who also is abusive to us.

[Methuen]

You might look into how to use 'change talk" from motivational interviewing with your mother.

Wonderful suggestion.  I've googled it and found a few good links including one which models a good response and a poor response.  Basically, what I'm getting about "change talk" includes some of the skills we already use i.e. empathy, SET, asking validating questions, but also asking thoughtful questions in response to what they are saying (to guide their thinking in a positive way), and especially avoiding judgement.  In terms of asking thoughtful questions: tell me a little bit about...what do you like about/what concerns you...what concerns you most about/what is the best result you could imagine...on a scale of zero to 10, where would you say you are?  That's what I've pulled from my "quick study" research.  Anything important I've missed?

The concern I have is that some years ago she pressured me to believe that as her daughter, I should be her counsellor.  She went to a counsellor once (in her life), and determined it was the "worst experience ever" and she wasn't going back. She never did, but she never stopped pressuring me to be her private counsellor. She actually told me the counsellor stated that her daughter would be the best person to talk to about her problems.  I don't believe this, but it's an example of the potholes and sinkholes we encounter with pwBPD.  For years I tried to support her emotionally, until I finally figured out she was probably unhelpable, and I stopped trying to do the impossible. 

So, I would have to be careful not to overuse this, as I don't want to put myself in a position of seeming like her counsellor.  Still, the change talk suggestion is a suggestion to guide positive thinking, and something I will remember the next time an opportunity comes up to use it.  Thank you for the suggestion.

[Methuen]

A few of you suggested hiring a caregiver, and this has worked for you in the past.  I think this could work if the pwBPD isn't as controlling and oppositional as my mother.  The idea has a lot of potential, but like NW, would not work for my mother, because she would find flaws with anyone I found.  It would be a disaster, and would end the same way her home health support ended.  Basically, the problem is that none of those people are me.  She wants my undivided attention at her behest.  Anything less means failure because I don't love her.  I also suspect it's because she can't control them like she thinks she can control me, and also because she doesn't really want to release her toxic emotions (which she needs to do) on someone else, but she feels safe enough to do it on me.  Just my theory why she would never go for this.  I wouldn't feel comfortable even having the conversation with her actually.  

Nevertheless, I appreciate the suggestions.  Who knows if the situation changes with another fall, and perhaps I come back to this in the future.  But I could never suggest the name of a specific person.  That would be too controlling for her, rather than being seen as helpful.

I feel like the way I respond lets me down.

It doesn't feel good to have revulsion or resentment towards people. I resent that.  

I can't shake the feeling that my nervous system has been permanently set to hypervigilant. It's possible to interact skillfully but internally it feels like I am still paying a big chunk of the emotional cost. I suspect some of these challenges are rooted in codependency, like the desire to be *perfect* at a relationship with someone disordered. Or, not wanting to feel like my invented *code* is compromised, whether it's being altruistic, or being a people pleaser, or avoiding conflict.

There is something about a person who is in the ballpark of being a real victim (e.g. aging parent, or, in my case, a traumatized young adult) that really yanks my chain. Except with BPD, it's a black hole of victimhood mixed with self-created chaos.

It's very difficult to override those hard-wired instincts to be there for someone who needs it (who also actively works against it).

I remember reading something written in a book by BPD sufferers how terrified they felt about succeeding. Doing well generated anxiety because doing well meant people would leave them.

Your mom's health issues and age make her genuinely needful, but she is sabotaging that help, insisting she can't succeed with your help specifically.

LNL - this is all a bell-ringer!  OMG yes.  All of it - every single word.  To your last point, I read this  in a book about BPD sufferers as well - why they were terrified of succeeding, and why they would "relapse" from whatever progress they had made.  In my mom's case she can never recover from any health problem and refuses medications to help her symptoms (eg she refuses Parkinson's meds for her Parkinson's).  It's just classic BPD - neediness, chaos,  crisis, and one worst case scenario after another.  I've had to walk away (more accurately I came out of retirement and went back to work), and "let her do her, her way" and live with her own consequences.  

Hence her loneliness.

And her constant texts to me about being lonely.  Another one today.  She texted me to tell me she got no phone calls today.  That one didn't get a reply.  UGE!

[zachira]

Using "change talk" is based on the person resistant to change eventually saying something that opens the door for getting them to talk about reasons to do things differently. I agree with you that you don't want to be your mother's counselor or to spend a lot of time with her because of how she treats you. You are setting healthy boundaries with your mother by listening for "change talk" and then using the skills to reinforce it, while continuing to limit the time you spend around your mother.

[Mommydoc]

I think the change talk idea, is a great idea and agree it is a similar framework to what we learn here. As Zachira mentions, it will only work in certain circumstances. My therapist recommended to me just letting my sister do all the talking, and asking questions of inquiry very occasionally ( literally not talking for 5-10 minutes before validating or asking a question for a few seconds). There are some unique reasons that doesn’t work with my sister, but I think the “change talk” questions strategically placed in a similar way might be a great strategy for interactions with your mom Methuen. I don’t think your mom is going to actually change, so you may need to accept those comments as  who she is. But by approaching her differently, it’s my hope that it will reduce your emotional burden.

[Couscous]

You know Menthuen, it occurred to me that these loneliness texts might be a blessing in disguise. It’s a pretty big sign that getting your mother into assisted living may not actually be the answer to your problems because she would likely continue with intrusive texts about things such as her loneliness.   

The means that there may be little point in continuing in your valiant efforts to get her into assisted living since it will not solve the problem of her emotional dependency on you. And when she senses that you no longer have a vested interest in getting her into assisted living, she may finally stop resisting, and paradoxically, decide on her own that it’s time to move — which is generally the case for most people, but especially so for folks who are pathologically demand avoidant.

[Methuen]

You know Methuen, it occurred to me that these loneliness texts might be a blessing in disguise. It’s a pretty big sign that getting your mother into assisted living may not actually be the answer to your problems because she would likely continue with intrusive texts about things such as her loneliness...And when she senses that you no longer have a vested interest in getting her into assisted living, she may finally stop resisting, and paradoxically, decide on her own that it’s time to move — which is generally the case for most people, but especially so for folks who are pathologically demand avoidant.

I think I better clarify something!  I have never tried to pursuade my mother to go into assisted living. If it has come across that way over this forum, that is my bad.  All of her family who know her including myself believe she would be happier there.  I think it was Cat Familiar who said her mother always resisted it, and when the appropriate authority determined she needed care and Cat delivered her to the facility, her mother was happy as a clam.  It would likely be the same with my mother.  

Assisted living was offered to mom by the person who did her first Rai assessment almost 3 years ago.  However, she was resistant to the assessor at that time for suggesting she qualified for assisted living, and had a mini meltdown, which the assessor did not know what to do with and looked quite panicky about.  I was present when mom was given the assisted living option.  Mom was angry, and raged.  Since then mom seeks opportunity to tell anyone who will listen that she would rather die than go into assisted living.  In the 3 years since that assessment, I have never had a conversation with her to suggest she should do so or put any pressure on her.  I wouldn't do that.  I'm not like that.  I'm also not a fool, because I would have to be a fool to have that conversation with my mother.  But internally, I see it as a terrible decision, as does my H, her grandchildren, and even one of her friends.  She loves being around people where she can garner all kinds of attention.  She reports that living in nurses residence (around people) was the best time of her life.  Knowing her as I do and knowing how social she is, I think she would thrive in an assisted living environment where she could be independent, but medical help and social events would be available, as would a dining room to eat with other people.  However, this is her choice.  What I do resent, yes resent, is that she makes these choices, but always expected me to provide the level of assisted living care that she "needs" physically, medically, and emotionally, all while abusing me despite extraordinary measures I have take to be a good daughter and try to make her happy.  I have good friends who are great sons and daughters to their parents, but they have not gone to the lengths I have (over a lifetime) to make their parents happy because they  haven't needed to and their parents don't demand it.  I have let go of that myth that I can make a difference for mom. But, I have absolutely no "vested interest" in her being in assisted living.  I believe she would be happier, but she has a pattern of sabataging her own possibilities for happiness.  From some of the things mom has said to me in the past, I suspect that someone else may have talked to her about it.  

My mother will never choose to go to assisted living.  Anyone who believes this does not know my mother.

The loneliness texts are FOG. It is also her need for attention.  She sees me as an extension of herself, and sees it as my "job" to make her feel better (because until 3 years ago I always dutifully tried to do just that).  Sorry, but I'm just not seeing the connection to these loneliness texts being a blessing in disguise.  They wear on me deeply, and frustrate the H _ _ _ out of me.  I ignore them all.  She will never try to solve her own loneliness problems because she is unable to do so.  That would have required some deep therapy and hard work on her part many years ago.  The much easier path for her was to keep blaming others, and keep using others to meet her needs, because when she is able to get others to do things for her, she gets attention. She is charming enough to be able to convince 98% of people that she is helpless (extreme WAIF), and somehow she gets people to step up.  Although I've noticed that a lot of her friends are taking "breaks".  She's telling me she hasn't seen some of them in a long time.
Which could also be part of the loneliness issue right now.  But she's going to have to solve her own problems, or if not, live with them, because I no longer accept responsibility for her feelings.

The real difficulty for me is proximity and the intensity of her needs, and the fact that she gives me no space while abusing me.  We live very close to one another, and that is very difficult to manage.