He came back after 6 months. Bear with me.

[Depression = 72% of members]

A short recap ( some of you may know, I have been on this forum for about 9 months) ..
I was with my diagnosed exwbpd for 3 months ( august-october 2021), fell for him like a ton of bricks, red flags started after about three weeks. Angry fits over things that did not make sense, vindictiveness, criticising my body, mind, work. Arguments all around him.. I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease ( Crohn's)  by November, I broke up with him and finally went nc in January this year. My diagnosis didn't allow me to be around any negativity, so in that sense it was a saviour.
I landed in a vortex of darkness after we broke up. I managed to climb out by June , with help of a therapist, the shield ( crohnscolitislifestyle.com) program, my dr in the hospital, my gp, the support of my incredible friends and my dear dad. And this forum. I managed to get my health back, no inflammation anymore since a few months. I stuck to a healthy diet, gained some new friendships, got my focus back in my work and made some incredible progress.
Most of all, got myself back. a self that I noticed more authentic, centred and relaxed than the one before.

Last weekend my exwbpd showed up again. He contacted me a couple of weeks ago from Alaska where he usually spends the summer. I fell for him again, or still, shoot me. I doubted why we ever broke up ( helloowwwwww diagnosed BPD? zillion red flags?) I shake my head writing this.
Anyway , he was back last weekend, after six month I was looking in his big brown eyes again and it was like nothing before.
We spent the weekend together at my house. It was like a cloud of stardust followed us wherever we went. people say : oh you look so good together! .. or :you should get married!
It is so confusing.
Because I know that, I know we look great together and on paper we are a perfect match. Both self-employed successful creatives, physically we are a match from heaven. We are silly together, are quiet, talk for hours or sleep together so easily. like two cats.
But I also know his dark side.. the side that actually grew worse now.
I noticed he slid criticism in every move I made, whether it be hanging up towels, I needed to wear different shoes, I was skinny , the music I listen to is not good, the tattoo I drew for him he doesn't like, the subjects I try to initiate, the nail polish I put on is not done properly, I should pull my underwear higher because I have narrow hips, the make up I use.. and who is JXX ( male friend) ? I caught him checking my last calls and going through the pictures in my phone.
Nothing happened in these 6 months I wasn't with him. I wasn't with anyone. I was working on myself and trying to heal a broken heart. I have an equal amount of male and female friends that I show the same loyalty , and that is it.
I told him that.

After the weekend I noticed red flags increasing. He wouldn't reply on loving texts I sent him for sometimes a day. And then when he did he wouldn't acknowledge the message. I felt hurt by that .. but also that he was doing this out of insecurity or to destabilise me, I don't know. I do know I don't trust him enough to know it is random. Everything with him is reading in-between lines.
When I mentioned it hurt me that he didn't respond to anything or let a message this beautiful just go by he would go angry and give me the silent treatment again.
Eventually I tried to speak to him about it, saying I loved the weekend but didn't feel well with all the criticism he gives me.. and that I felt that afterwards. I actually felt better about myself after he was gone.. was a weird thing to realise after being with the one I am so in love with.
I tried to ask why he gave me all this negativity and said I missed his kind and loving words. He said he felt that was blocked and I caused that ( by leaving him)

To me this feels like he was splitting me black already at the time we broke up this year and somehow his diagnoses wouldn't allow him to come back from that. He made me feel in his actions that he is crazy about me but in his words he has  to somehow bring me down. he didn't use any loving language like " I missed you' or 'I love you' or kisses in texts. when I asked him about that he said his world was to shambles when we broke up and he had a hard time coming back from that. That I can understand, but I can't help feeling like he is feeding me poison berries. Taking it over to the other side and slowly tearing down what holds me up.
I said ' well, you don't seem to have a hard time living with me or being intimate with me.' which in my turn made it hard for me to trust his motivations were any other than a grudgeful witholding. Along with the criticism and belittling I felt drained  by last Tuesday already. I got stomach aches by yesterday and decided I have run away from this before it runs away with me again.
I think I feel stronger than last time.. I think I see what is going on sooner. But please give me your view, anything is welcome.

[judee]

A short recap ( some of you may know, I have been on this forum for about 9 months) ..
I was with my diagnosed exwbpd for 3 months ( august-october 2021), fell for him like a ton of bricks, red flags started after about three weeks. Angry fits over things that did not make sense, vindictiveness, criticising my body, mind, work. Arguments all around him.. I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease ( Crohn's)  by November, I broke up with him and finally went nc in January this year. My diagnosis didn't allow me to be around any negativity, so in that sense it was a saviour.
I landed in a vortex of darkness after we broke up. I managed to climb out by June , with help of a therapist, the shield ( crohnscolitislifestyle.com) program, my dr in the hospital, my gp, the support of my incredible friends and my dear dad. And this forum. I managed to get my health back, no inflammation anymore since a few months. I stuck to a healthy diet, gained some new friendships, got my focus back in my work and made some incredible progress.
Most of all, got myself back. a self that I noticed more authentic, centred and relaxed than the one before.

Last weekend my exwbpd showed up again. He contacted me a couple of weeks ago from Alaska where he usually spends the summer. I fell for him again, or still, shoot me. I doubted why we ever broke up ( helloowwwwww diagnosed BPD? zillion red flags?) I shake my head writing this.
Anyway , he was back last weekend, after six month I was looking in his big brown eyes again and it was like nothing before.
We spent the weekend together at my house. It was like a cloud of stardust followed us wherever we went. people say : oh you look so good together! .. or :you should get married!
It is so confusing.
Because I know that, I know we look great together and on paper we are a perfect match. Both self-employed successful creatives, physically we are a match from heaven. We are silly together, are quiet, talk for hours or sleep together so easily. like two cats.
But I also know his dark side.. the side that actually grew worse now.
I noticed he slid criticism in every move I made, whether it be hanging up towels, I needed to wear different shoes, I was skinny , the music I listen to is not good, the tattoo I drew for him he doesn't like, the subjects I try to initiate, the nail polish I put on is not done properly, I should pull my underwear higher because I have narrow hips, the make up I use.. and who is JXX ( male friend) ? I caught him checking my last calls and going through the pictures in my phone.
Nothing happened in these 6 months I wasn't with him. I wasn't with anyone. I was working on myself and trying to heal a broken heart. I have an equal amount of male and female friends that I show the same loyalty , and that is it.
I told him that.

After the weekend I noticed red flags increasing. He wouldn't reply on loving texts I sent him for sometimes a day. And then when he did he wouldn't acknowledge the message. I felt hurt by that .. but also that he was doing this out of insecurity or to destabilise me, I don't know. I do know I don't trust him enough to know it is random. Everything with him is reading in-between lines.
When I mentioned it hurt me that he didn't respond to anything or let a message this beautiful just go by he would go angry and give me the silent treatment again.
Eventually I tried to speak to him about it, saying I loved the weekend but didn't feel well with all the criticism he gives me.. and that I felt that afterwards. I actually felt better about myself after he was gone.. was a weird thing to realise after being with the one I am so in love with.
I tried to ask why he gave me all this negativity and said I missed his kind and loving words. He said he felt that was blocked and I caused that ( by leaving him)

To me this feels like he was splitting me black already at the time we broke up this year and somehow his diagnoses wouldn't allow him to come back from that. He made me feel in his actions that he is crazy about me but in his words he has  to somehow bring me down. he didn't use any loving language like " I missed you' or 'I love you' or kisses in texts. when I asked him about that he said his world was to shambles when we broke up and he had a hard time coming back from that. That I can understand, but I can't help feeling like he is feeding me poison berries. Taking it over to the other side and slowly tearing down what holds me up.
I said ' well, you don't seem to have a hard time living with me or being intimate with me.' which in my turn made it hard for me to trust his motivations were any other than a grudgeful witholding. Along with the criticism and belittling I felt drained  by last Tuesday already. I got stomach aches by yesterday and decided I have run away from this before it runs away with me again.
I think I feel stronger than last time.. I think I see what is going on sooner. But please give me your view, anything is welcome.

[NotAHero]

A short recap ( some of you may know, I have been on this forum for about 9 months) ..
I was with my diagnosed exwbpd for 3 months ( august-october 2021), fell for him like a ton of bricks, red flags started after about three weeks. Angry fits over things that did not make sense, vindictiveness, criticising my body, mind, work. Arguments all around him.. I got diagnosed with an autoimmune disease ( Crohn's)  by November, I broke up with him and finally went nc in January this year. My diagnosis didn't allow me to be around any negativity, so in that sense it was a saviour.
I landed in a vortex of darkness after we broke up. I managed to climb out by June , with help of a therapist, the shield ( crohnscolitislifestyle.com) program, my dr in the hospital, my gp, the support of my incredible friends and my dear dad. And this forum. I managed to get my health back, no inflammation anymore since a few months. I stuck to a healthy diet, gained some new friendships, got my focus back in my work and made some incredible progress.
Most of all, got myself back. a self that I noticed more authentic, centred and relaxed than the one before.

Last weekend my exwbpd showed up again. He contacted me a couple of weeks ago from Alaska where he usually spends the summer. I fell for him again, or still, shoot me. I doubted why we ever broke up ( helloowwwwww diagnosed BPD? zillion red flags?) I shake my head writing this.
Anyway , he was back last weekend, after six month I was looking in his big brown eyes again and it was like nothing before.
We spent the weekend together at my house. It was like a cloud of stardust followed us wherever we went. people say : oh you look so good together! .. or :you should get married!
It is so confusing.
Because I know that, I know we look great together and on paper we are a perfect match. Both self-employed successful creatives, physically we are a match from heaven. We are silly together, are quiet, talk for hours or sleep together so easily. like two cats.
But I also know his dark side.. the side that actually grew worse now.
I noticed he slid criticism in every move I made, whether it be hanging up towels, I needed to wear different shoes, I was skinny , the music I listen to is not good, the tattoo I drew for him he doesn't like, the subjects I try to initiate, the nail polish I put on is not done properly, I should pull my underwear higher because I have narrow hips, the make up I use.. and who is JXX ( male friend) ? I caught him checking my last calls and going through the pictures in my phone.
Nothing happened in these 6 months I wasn't with him. I wasn't with anyone. I was working on myself and trying to heal a broken heart. I have an equal amount of male and female friends that I show the same loyalty , and that is it.
I told him that.

After the weekend I noticed red flags increasing. He wouldn't reply on loving texts I sent him for sometimes a day. And then when he did he wouldn't acknowledge the message. I felt hurt by that .. but also that he was doing this out of insecurity or to destabilise me, I don't know. I do know I don't trust him enough to know it is random. Everything with him is reading in-between lines.
When I mentioned it hurt me that he didn't respond to anything or let a message this beautiful just go by he would go angry and give me the silent treatment again.
Eventually I tried to speak to him about it, saying I loved the weekend but didn't feel well with all the criticism he gives me.. and that I felt that afterwards. I actually felt better about myself after he was gone.. was a weird thing to realise after being with the one I am so in love with.
I tried to ask why he gave me all this negativity and said I missed his kind and loving words. He said he felt that was blocked and I caused that ( by leaving him)

To me this feels like he was splitting me black already at the time we broke up this year and somehow his diagnoses wouldn't allow him to come back from that. He made me feel in his actions that he is crazy about me but in his words he has  to somehow bring me down. he didn't use any loving language like " I missed you' or 'I love you' or kisses in texts. when I asked him about that he said his world was to shambles when we broke up and he had a hard time coming back from that. That I can understand, but I can't help feeling like he is feeding me poison berries. Taking it over to the other side and slowly tearing down what holds me up.
I said ' well, you don't seem to have a hard time living with me or being intimate with me.' which in my turn made it hard for me to trust his motivations were any other than a grudgeful witholding. Along with the criticism and belittling I felt drained  by last Tuesday already. I got stomach aches by yesterday and decided I have run away from this before it runs away with me again.
I think I feel stronger than last time.. I think I see what is going on sooner. But please give me your view, anything is welcome.

I think the best question to ask yourself is:

 What exactly are you hoping to get out of the relationship here?

 He is diagnosed so you know how this usually ends if you get more involved. Even if you are looking for a thrill or some temporary fun there is just a lot of risk to make it worth it.

 If you are looking for a long term stable loving relationship, well, run! Remember, you can’t fix them, they won’t change, it only gets worse with time, the disorder always wins at the end.

[judee]

Thank you for your take on it, it does help. A bit embaressed to say this...
My doubt is the fact he keeps saying he doesn't do things to intentionally hurt me and  it is my problem that I don't trust him, I should get help, according to him.
He was diagnosed a few years back... he has therapy twice a week and is on medication.
I guess these things keep feeding my doubts ( he is working on it? maybe I am wrong/it is my insecurity? ) as well as confirmation.
I guess I miss the bigger picture.

[babyducks]

I think I see what is going on sooner. But please give me your view, anything is welcome.

I think you have recognized the pattern and that is a good thing.    His ~idea~ of a functioning relationship comes with a lot of destructive behavior.   

There are probably a lot of deep seated reasons for why he acts this way.    The bigger question I think is can you tolerate his behavior without damaging your health.

My Ex had a lot of the maladaptive behaviors you are describing.    Things had to be 100% perfect, absolutely totally perfect the way she described perfect.   If they weren't perfect, she had to destroy them.    Underneath that was a lot of self esteem issues, a lot of poor sense of self issues, a lot of manufacturing security by making things 'just the way she needed them'.   

Explaining that to her wasn't going to help much.   It wasn't a concept she could absorb.   It felt 'normal' to her.    It was how her world worked.     Outsiders weren't going to see that.    they only saw the facade that was created.   

are you still in contact now and how is that going?

'ducks

[iamupsidedown]

My doubt is the fact he keeps saying he doesn't do things to intentionally hurt me and  it is my problem that I don't trust him, I should get help, according to him.

Hi judee, I'm so sorry you are going through this. It sounds very similar to my BPD ex. In recovery, it has really helped me to google topics like "codependency and BPD" , "BPD and projection", and "trauma bonding". There's also this thread from BPDFamily: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=70931.0

Very often a pwBPD is unaware of the cycle of manipulation, obligation and guilt that they perpetuate. It can be extremely confusing for the well-intentioned partner when the pwBPD is saying things like "I don't want to hurt you, you're the love of my life, if only you could see more clearly how I feel, it's only you who understands me", etc. And then they split and lash out again when their unrealistic expectations aren't met. Refusal to take any responsibility is how they attempt to avoid their sense of toxic shame and therefore the fear of abandonment. It's always about them, and they'll project blame onto their partner rather than face reality.

I am fully aware of what this can do to a non-BPD's self-esteem. We may feel like we want to get back to the time when they were the most amazing person, and we're made to feel like it's up to us, that we can change or help them. When things don't go as we'd hoped, we may internalise the pwBPD's view and feel guilty.

But trust me, it is not your fault. I would suggest working on better boundaries, as hard as that is, I know. You might want to consider going no contact. It's possible that he has indeed painted you black and I'm afraid there's no good that can come out of that. He will only try to make you feel worse. You also don't want to be lured into another cycle.

What do YOU truly need to feel safer and healthier right now?

[judee]

Baby ducks, thanks.. you have a point. I seem to give the impression I am more self-assured than I am about what is going on. I am in self preservation mode right now, trying to make sense of it all. I told him he is deflecting, intimidating me and using silent treatments and that it is not ok for me. and that I think we have a chance if we are both open. He told me he never wants to see me again and I said 'ok' .. (he said that quite a lot). We haven't been in contact since Wednesday. I feel it I am barely hanging on, mostly because of the emotional rollercoaster.. and I have to fall out of love, fast, just don't know if I can do that. I have to use this time to get to my senses.

[judee]

Hi iamupside down...especially your last sentence helps, because I do ( and he confirms that mostly) think it is my problem. I am in therapy because of all that happened last year, and more but I want to figure out what is wrong with ME. This is the fourth time I have been in a relationship with someone with a personality disorder. after an extreme narcissist a few years back I was traumatised, which leads me to doubt my intuition sometimes.
This brings me down so much right now. I really felt this man was the love of my life... this whole year I was ruminating I was wrong maybe and we could make it.
So I have been asking myself if I am too, in some way.  maybe I am narcissistic or also borderline, or something I have overlooked.
Although if I look at the symptoms of both hardly any match.
I did grow up without a father the first 16 years and with a kind,  but inconsistent mother and became independent very early. I am used to balance people out, harmonise, care. I usually know what to to when someone has a break down or just is plain uncomfortable.
I don't know. its just a bit messy in my head right now.

[babyducks]

.. and I have to fall out of love, fast, just don't know if I can do that. I have to use this time to get to my senses.

I saw my Ex yesterday.    bumped into her at the library.   I had come from a bike ride, my exercise for the day.    I was hot.   tired.    probably a little dehydrated.   I stopped to return an overdue book, and BOOM there she was.     

I see her a lot.   bump into her frequently.    at a rate that sometimes feels excessively high.   probably like once a week or so.

she spoke to me first at the library.   I was taken by surprise and reacted a little oddly.    interactions with her are never simple.   they always feel fraught with something.   I don't know that I handled things very well or right.    I am not sure there is a 'right'.

and Yes, it affected me.    There were a lot of very intense emotions between her and I for a long time.    In a way they are still there.    those emotions just don't go away.   they aren't like a switch you can turn off.    when I see her, I tend to feel friendly towards her.    like I want to go and speak to her.   there is still, I dunno, a warmth there for lack of a better word.     I know that no relationship is possible between us.    way too much baggage.    way too much craziness.   

still I miss her.   and sometimes I would like to talk to her.   ask her about the book she was reading at the library.    ask her about the latest current event crisis.   I don't think that is wrong.    I think we live in this unusual contradiction.    we need to believe two contrary things at the same time.   we have these strong connections to our pwBPD and that these strong feelings aren't good for us or our partners.

we can go down the rabbit hole of, maybe if I did this, or maybe if she did that.  but I think the bottom line is, we fell in love with people that are horrible for us.   does that mean the love was a bad thing?     I don't think so.   I became such a better person from being with my Ex.    I have some phenomenal memories. I've got such a lot of damage.   I really wish it could have been different.    There was no way I could make it so.

honestly I am never going to be the person I was before that relationship.   somedays I am sad about that.   somedays I am not.    my feelings aren't the enemy.    I've got choices about what I do with my feelings.    somedays I will make the wrong choice.    like I did at the library.     that's okay.     I don't need to be harsh with myself.   and really I don't need to be harsh with her.    lt is what it is.     

as much as my Ex has a strong streak of perfectionism,  so do I.   I want to do this the right way.    I don't think there is a right way.    sometimes it feels more like muddling through.

'ducks

[judee]

Hi baby ducks,

You put it beautifully. I admire you can hold yourself together as you do when seeing her. How long has it been since you were together?
A melancholic, kind approach which resonates with me a lot. Kind to yourself especially which is so on the spot. It is both there, the love and the BPD mess.. thank you for reminding me they can exist simultaneously. I can't just fall out of love. I tried to in the past six months. Tears as i am writing this, because today the heartbreak set in, like a huge wave that took me under. I wanted to go to the gym, but can't. So I just ate a huge tomato and bread with olive oil and accept that this is it for now.
I wrote him a few days ago that I don't hold any grudge towards him, just feel in pain, also because of my inability to handle my own blind spots. There was no reply.
I told him goodbye, without a response either. It is painful because finally I stood up for myself, set a boundary .. only to see that this was never possible with him. I am still proud I didn't leave myself, but it is like an x-ray of our relationship, nothing is left when I do that.

[Cat Familiar]

Perhaps you fell in love with an *idea*, not with him. Yes, pwBPD can, at least for a while, appear to be the *perfect* partner, heaven-sent to match our dreams. What they are instead, is a mirror of our highest selves, a formidable task which they cannot do for long.

So in essence, you fell in love with your *higher self* not the tangible, damaged person he truly is.

[babyducks]

I wrote him a few days ago that I don't hold any grudge towards him, just feel in pain, also because of my inability to handle my own blind spots. There was no reply.

What was your goal with this message?  In what way did you think this was going to help?

It's true that our partners have very high validations needs.    It's also true that we have our own very high validations needs.    We say Don't JADE.    Don't justify, argue, defend or explain.   When I catch myself in JADE it is usually because I want some kind of validation.   I want to be understood for what I said, did or felt.   

The next logical question is,.. can the person I talking to provide validation in this situation?     I have to remind myself that looking for validation is a gift, something I choose to share with a trusted friend or partner.     Its not something I indiscriminately share with anyone.    I notice that Cat has joined us in this thread.    I would trust her to validate the appropriate things if I shared with her.

I can also validate myself.    By using kinder, softer, gentler self talk.     

One of the reasons I keep coming back here is that my EX has never really left my life, even though she ended the relationship years ago.   Right after the breakup I saw her, oh like 4 or 5 times a week.    There was a volunteer community garden right across the street from my condo in the city.   It provided vegetables to the local food pantry.   Guess who volunteered at that garden?   She did.    I was often in public spaces as I was on the board of directors of a local charity.    Every public event I attended she just happened to be there.    I had seasons tickets with the local sport team.    She became a fan.   It felt vaguely stalkish.    Still does actually.    The library branch where I bumped into her on Friday?    A mile from my home but fifteen from hers.   There is nothing really wrong with her picking a different branch of the library to visit.    It does feel odd to me.  just statically it feels odd that we bump into each other as often as we do.   and those are my feelings to deal with.

anyhow - I am rambling.     

[judee]

Babyducks,

That is a lot... I would consider even moving if I bumped into an ex with such painful history so much.Do you think she is really stalking you or is it some crazy universal twist?
I had to think about why I sent that message... validation.. hmmm .. I think, maybe.. . I let him break up with me this time to see if he would still climb in the victim hole. He did, of course.. it is and endless black hole. But I did not want to give into that by giving him anything he could use against me.
I am sad, and I don't hold a grudge because I know his illness and I also know his despair, so that is also the truth.
But it doesn't feel right either to have shared that with him. I guess it is normal to do that with a healthy partner in a break up but keep forgetting to what extent he is not.

[jaded7]

Thank you for your take on it, it does help. A bit embaressed to say this...
My doubt is the fact he keeps saying he doesn't do things to intentionally hurt me and  it is my problem that I don't trust him, I should get help, according to him.
He was diagnosed a few years back... he has therapy twice a week and is on medication.
I guess these things keep feeding my doubts ( he is working on it? maybe I am wrong/it is my insecurity? ) as well as confirmation.
I guess I miss the bigger picture.

Can't say much, I wish my ex would come back too.

But, so many things have become clear to me in the last couple of years of suffering and reading and reading and video watching and therapy...I was in a deep dark hole.

A couple things in your post made me wince (not because you're bad or they are bad, it's because they sounded very, very familiar to me).

This whole paragraph...ouch...

He wouldn't reply on loving texts I sent him for sometimes a day. And then when he did he wouldn't acknowledge the message. I felt hurt by that .. but also that he was doing this out of insecurity or to destabilise me, I don't know. I do know I don't trust him enough to know it is random. Everything with him is reading in-between lines.
When I mentioned it hurt me that he didn't respond to anything or let a message this beautiful just go by he would go angry and give me the silent treatment again.
Eventually I tried to speak to him about it, saying I loved the weekend but didn't feel well with all the criticism he gives me.. and that I felt that afterwards. I actually felt better about myself after he was gone.. was a weird thing to realise after being with the one I am so in love with.
I tried to ask why he gave me all this negativity and said I missed his kind and loving words. He said he felt that was blocked and I caused that ( by leaving him)

Not responding to texts for long periods of time, being evasive or not addressing what was sent. Been there. Painful. I can feel the pain now. We all know that it takes 4 seconds to answer a text.

Getting angry when you bring it up, then giving the silent treatment. Been there too. More pain.

It's your fault that he doesn't say loving and kind things. Happy to be intimate with you, walk around and accept the adoration of the crowds...but cannot be kind.

And the confusion that's already reigning in your head. Ta

Like, you are noticing the criticism immediately, and noticing that it makes you feel bad. Likely this went on for a while in the first round until you noticed it, then you really thought about it a lot during your time apart. So now, it's incredibly obvious. My ex also criticized me and controlled the way I did things and I'm now baffled why I put up with it.

Then, when you voice that these things hurt you, he tells you it's YOUR fault, there's something wrong with YOU. This too, is very familiar to me. "he doesn't do things to intentionally hurt you" but you voice your dislike for the criticisms and he tells YOU to get mental health help! Been there.

I think you are much more attuned to these things now.

[judee]

Hi jaded,

Yes , I am, but your mirror just now made it even clearer to me.
'It takes 4 seconds to answer a message'. Exactly.
I am sorry this happened to you as well...I think we can take enormous lessons from it though.
The thing is, it doesn't hurt me that much anymore because I am more sure as to WHY he does this.
There is an endless need for reassurance (a.i me saying I love him ) for him to feel secure.
When I expressed feeling hurt by him not responding you know what he said? ... ; ' You know what you have to do if you want me to respond? Send it again. ' I was BAFFLED.
The first time he came to my house after six months he said: 'I don't want to take too much of your time' .. I was like ' seriously?' after that I start a million reassurances he is welcome and I love to be with him.
However when I say to him at the end of the weekend : shall I come over to your house somewhere next week? ' ( I was trying to be mutual as in staying at each others places, he expressed I never wanted to be at his house once before)  He immediately declines and says he will be too busy.
Don't get me wrong, I know him. He really wants me to come or at least be together. He just feels a need to reject/control in way.. and  he still manages to come off as the rejected afterwards.
tbh the more I know about BPD the less it hurts but also the less I am able to truly connect with him.
Resonates with anyone?

[jaded7]

Hi jaded,

Yes , I am, but your mirror just now made it even clearer to me.
'It takes 4 seconds to answer a message'. Exactly.
I am sorry this happened to you as well...I think we can take enormous lessons from it though.
The thing is, it doesn't hurt me that much anymore because I am more sure as to WHY he does this.
There is an endless need for reassurance (a.i me saying I love him ) for him to feel secure.
When I expressed feeling hurt by him not responding you know what he said? ... ; ' You know what you have to do if you want me to respond? Send it again. ' I was BAFFLED.
The first time he came to my house after six months he said: 'I don't want to take too much of your time' .. I was like ' seriously?' after that I start a million reassurances he is welcome and I love to be with him.
However when I say to him at the end of the weekend : shall I come over to your house somewhere next week? ' ( I was trying to be mutual as in staying at each others places, he expressed I never wanted to be at his house once before)  He immediately declines and says he will be too busy.
Don't get me wrong, I know him. He really wants me to come or at least be together. He just feels a need to reject/control in way.. and  he still manages to come off as the rejected afterwards.
tbh the more I know about BPD the less it hurts but also the less I am able to truly connect with him.
Resonates with anyone?

I actually said that "it takes 4 seconds..." to my ex once when she was ignoring my messages for days, giving me lies about how she couldn't respond (busy, etc.) when, in fact, she was posting instagram stories during the very time she said she was busy. Very evasive, lying about what she's doing...then tell me I need mental health help when I point out she ignored messages for days. She was avoiding me, I now know that and I know why. Nothing I did, she was preparing to ditch me over the holidays to visit her family (who asked me when I was coming up and I had to tell them I don't know, she hasn't said anything. I didn't tell them she was ghosting me and being evasive). And she did...no text responses for a week, no phone calls, then simply left town without saying a word. Painful. And then attacked me when I pointed that out.

"You know what you have to do if you want me to respond, send it again." Are you kidding me? AGAIN...what you have to do. And send the same text twice? In order for him to take it seriously or act like a human being?

A normal expectation of a loving relationship, responding to a loving text, is somehow twisted to you being needy, expecting too much, screwing up by not sending it twice. And of course, the goal posts will shift if you do send it twice. "I was BUSY", "I can't respond to every text you send", "I didn't see it", "You know that I saw it, can't that be enough?". Always your fault, always.

Not saying yes to you coming over and secretly wanting you to and then being disappointed when you don't is a form of control, he feels in control of you when he does that. But it's also mind reading expectation- "if you loved me you would know what I want", "I shouldn't have to ask". Both of which I got in spades. Even when I did explicitly ask what she needed, wanting to do whatever she needed for her, she said "nothing" then ghosted me in the following days and blocked me because she was "mad at me for not taking care of her". I pointed out that I asked her repeatedly what she needed, what can I do?, then made suggestions since she kept saying nothing, she then mocked the suggestions I had made and said "my friends know what to do without asking".

Mind reading expectations come from fear of vulnerability. Asking for what you need is scary to them, so they don't and expect you to just know. Then get mad at you for not doing it because they feel let down. Really, it's just that they are feeling shame in not asking, then projecting out onto you when you don't 'come through'.

It sounds like your guy and my ex are cut from the exact same mold.

[judee]

So many sharp observations...!
Yes they do sound very similar.
My ex sent me the day before yesterday that he loves me immensely and wants to go to counselling together.
(I wrote this today in another post_) ... then he said he wanted to take my whatsapps into counselling to show how emotional they are and I am really the problem.
Which is ultimately cunning  move because I have been wondering for weeks why his whatsapps are very void of emotion and in contast to his actions, a.i  walking out, yelling, hissing, silent treatments, hanging up ... blocking, unblocking..
I know he was in therapy as well with his last ex and my feeling says this is not the first time he has tried to use whatsapps as ' proof'.
I just told him I think that is a ridiculous idea because whatsapp is in no way a representation of a relationship and that I need time to think about everything.

[jaded7]

So many sharp observations...!
Yes they do sound very similar.
My ex sent me the day before yesterday that he loves me immensely and wants to go to counselling together.
(I wrote this today in another post_) ... then he said he wanted to take my whatsapps into counselling to show how emotional they are and I am really the problem.
Which is ultimately cunning  move because I have been wondering for weeks why his whatsapps are very void of emotion and in contast to his actions, a.i  walking out, yelling, hissing, silent treatments, hanging up ... blocking, unblocking..
I know he was in therapy as well with his last ex and my feeling says this is not the first time he has tried to use whatsapps as ' proof'.
I just told him I think that is a ridiculous idea because whatsapp is in no way a representation of a relationship and that I need time to think about everything.

Good for you! That's a wise move and a great example of a boundary.

He's setting you up, already. He has made the decision that you're the problem, and agreed to counseling as a way to prove to you that you're the problem. Counseling, for him, is not a way for both to look at themselves and be vulnerable...to be open to making things better in the relationship, better for you. It's a TOOL to force you into submission while simultaneously maintaining his front and innocence.

This is the worst kind of manipulation. It's exactly the same as telling you that you need mental health help when you point out their abusive, inconsistent, crazy-making behavior. Shift the issue back to YOU. You're the problem here.

[SinisterComplex]

So many sharp observations...!
Yes they do sound very similar.
My ex sent me the day before yesterday that he loves me immensely and wants to go to counselling together.
(I wrote this today in another post_) ... then he said he wanted to take my whatsapps into counselling to show how emotional they are and I am really the problem.
Which is ultimately cunning  move because I have been wondering for weeks why his whatsapps are very void of emotion and in contast to his actions, a.i  walking out, yelling, hissing, silent treatments, hanging up ... blocking, unblocking..
I know he was in therapy as well with his last ex and my feeling says this is not the first time he has tried to use whatsapps as ' proof'.
I just told him I think that is a ridiculous idea because whatsapp is in no way a representation of a relationship and that I need time to think about everything.

So Judee what are your goals? What would you like to happen? Do you have an endgame picture in mind here?

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[judee]

Hi SC,

I only have a personal goal, that is to NOT leave myself anymore and always tell my truth.
I told him in the beginning of this week I needed some time to think...
Yesterday morning I told him everything I think. In sense of , that I have been reading about BPD and in retrospect a lot of what I have been feeling from him ( rejection sensitivity, punishment/revenge,) has made sense. ( there is a lot more... gaslighting , yelling. , walking out , throwing things, silent treatment, suicidal thoughts but I thought let's stick to what is the most current issue)
I told him that that makes me massively distrust his motives. So there are my feelings, there is the theory... they match perfectly and then on the other hand there is him, telling me that he doesn't do that.

I never told him this before. I let him make me the problem before.
I am not asking him to 'prove' whether he does that or not... actually it doesn't matter so much for me. I wanted to say what I see happening, It is a big step for me.
Chances are, he will tell me he never wants to see me again. Then that will be it. As I said before, I am not afraid of losing him any more. If he does, than maybe we can get somewhere.
For me, two worlds connected by sending him this. Probably the heart and mind again.
I feel I told my truth and therefore I can't be anything else than in acceptance regardless of the outcome.

[judee]

Before I sent it I was thinking about my expectations and of course the thought of him confessing that he DOES do these things came by.
But I chuckled a bit thinking: to ask a diagnosed BPD this in the form of a question is like waking up in an empty house, catching a burglar outside your house with a truck full of stuff and ask him : did you take my stuff?

[babyducks]

my Ex and I used to have endless, what I called, ~status of the relationship~ talks.

Oh they were endless.    "You have to be more considerate of my feelings."   "This just isn't working."    "Can't you see how you did XYZ to me."

They were the most unproductive conversations I have ever had in my life.   They just went round and round and never accomplished anything.

My ex sent me the day before yesterday that he loves me immensely and wants to go to counselling together.
(I wrote this today in another post_) ... then he said he wanted to take my whatsapps into counselling to show how emotional they are and I am really the problem.
Which is ultimately cunning  move because I have been wondering for weeks why his whatsapps are very void of emotion and in contast to his actions, a.i  walking out, yelling, hissing, silent treatments, hanging up ... blocking, unblocking..

You've been around this website long enough to be familiar with the Karpman Drama Triangle.    But for those who might be following along and are newer, the triangle maps a type of destructive interaction that can occur among people in conflict.

https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

At the bottom of this article it talks about how to get off the drama triangle.    how to move to the center.

I'm curious.    would you say that you are participating in a triangle here?   and which one?   the drama triangle or the caring triangle.

I told him that that makes me massively distrust his motives. So there are my feelings, there is the theory... they match perfectly and then on the other hand there is him, telling me that he doesn't do that.

all of us here certainly understand how hard it is to communicate effectively with someone who is on the BPD spectrum.    to do it effectively requires top notch grade A communication skills.     

Now maybe I am reading this the wrong way.   and please correct me if I am.   but it sounds as if you sort of unloaded on him hoping that might force him away.   and save you from making tough decisions?

 

Chances are, he will tell me he never wants to see me again. Then that will be it. As I said before, I am not afraid of losing him any more. If he does, than maybe we can get somewhere.

In the article linked above, it talks about "instead of the actions of the persecutor,  who blames and punishes - give up trying to force or manipulate others to do what you want. Take on the new behaviors of "doing " and "asserting ". Ask for what you want. Say no for what you don't want. Give constructive feedback. Initiate negotiations. Take positive action."

could you say 'No, I am not interested in therapy to discuss my WhatApp, but I would go with these ground rules established.'?

When I first came here, people told me to avoid adding drama to an already drama filled situation.   excellent advice for a BPD relationship.   excellent advice for life.    they were saying, basically to get off the drama triangle.    find a way to more positive outcomes.     seems to me that a communication that risks burning down the entire communication stream isn't really such constructive feedback.

my two cents.
'ducks

[judee]

I am telling him how his behaviour affects me, basically what I am going through when he rejects, punishes and deflects, and that I know why.
I am not looking to persecute him, I guess I am in a way when I express that?
Apart from that, I get what you are saying..  I wish I did, but  just have no idea what ground rules i could set to help in this situation.

[judee]

Confronting to read it gives the impression that I am trying to force him away... I am not, I am just anticipating he will because he has given me the silent treatment for a thousand less significant things...
I did tell him I think he is an amazing person and I love x and y and z about him, and I love him a lot.
I honestly feel nothing else of a goal but telling him the truth ( as in my truth) not to create drama, not with a goal of getting back together, nor to hurt him or force him away. I think this is more a battle between me and myself, trying to stick up for myself and my truth. I used to give an arm to keep the peace.

 
 

[jaded7]

Confronting to read it gives the impression that I am trying to force him away... I am not, I am just anticipating he will because he has given me the silent treatment for a thousand less significant things...
I did tell him I think he is an amazing person and I love x and y and z about him, and I love him a lot.
I honestly feel nothing else of a goal but telling him the truth ( as in my truth) not to create drama, not with a goal of getting back together, nor to hurt him or force him away. I think this is more a battle between me and myself, trying to stick up for myself and my truth. I used to give an arm to keep the peace.

 
 

I get what your'e saying here and what you did. You expressed your feelings about the treatment you're getting. I don't see anything wrong with that. You expressed why you think it's happening, in the context of a known BPD diagnosis, and you packaged it in love. I don't see anything wrong with that.

I also don't think this will go well. What is good relating, good communication, in a normal relationship doesn't work in these, according to all my reading (and therapy!).

"anger in response to real or perceived criticism"
"projection"

These two things, in my experience, make the kind of relating that you did not work. I once said, in loving and kind tone of voice to my ex (after she had blown up at me when I texted to ask why she wasn't responding/communicating, just completely out of the blue, with no explanation- she gaslighted me about saying she "gave me an itinerary for the weekend", no she didn't, complete lie, she screamed at me that I "need mental health help", that I was "controlling". I apologized the next day for triggering her, she angrily told me "she wasn't triggered"...the woman who picked up the phone when she was ghosting to me to yell at me (not even a "hello") that I need mental health help and I'm controlling and who gaslighted  me that she "gave me an itinerary for the weekend". She did not, she texted early Saturday morning that she was going to the farmer's market early (around 8:30) rather than meeting me there at 11:15 like we normally did after I closed my business at 11, because her "son had a lot of homework". That was it. I said, of course, have fun I'll talk to you later. That was the itinerary.

Our last conversation I calmly explained to her that "my experience is you stopped communicating and responding, you were angry and mad at the show we went to with your family, you snapped at me and walked away from me in front of your family and you humiliated me in front of them, then without communicating for two more days you simply left town for Christmas without me, or without saying a word to me. That's my experience."

I felt good saying that the way I did, in calm, non-accusatory way. That was my experience. Do you think she acknowledged any of it?

No. Every bit of it was denied and turned back on me. I was wrong about all of it, my feelings were wrong about all of it, she wasn't mad at the show-denied it 4 times, I insisted that was my experience that she was angry...she finally admitted it "you want to know why I was mad at the show? Because you kissed me on the lips when you said you had the cold and crud!". I never said I had the cold and crud (I have never even used that language, and I wasn't sick). About not communicating for days "I was busy" (as she was posting stories of the show on Instagram and communicating with everyone else). About leaving for Christmas without saying a word for days "You knew where I was" (I didn't, we hadn't spoken on the phone in a week, she had ignored calls and texts from me). Plus, that is not even the issue, where she is. The issue is she stopped communicating and ditched me over Christmas, leaving town and leaving me alone over the holidays even after she had told me weeks before she was "thinking about inviting me up for Christmas" to her family's house (where I'd been the year before, her Mom asked me when I was coming up) but now...silence and evasion. I mean, that in itself was weird...we've been together for 2 years, I've spent the last major holidays with your and your family, and now you're just thinking of it? And then, you never mention it again and just skip out of town with zero communication for a week?

Which is all to say, that was our last conversation ever. I expressed my experience of her behavior and she denied it all, turned it all back on me being a bad/damaged/wrong human being, made up lies about what had happened or not happened, etc.

[judee]

I just had a honest conversation with one of my dearest male friends about this.. I asked him about his relationship.
When listening to him about how he and his girlfriend handle the so called 'little things' ( which they aren't! they can undermine your entire sense of realty and self)  a painfully yet comforting sharp contrast to hear what it is like to get healthy responses and to be treated with empathy.
He gave the example that a few weeks ago his Gf needed some space because she had a couple of hard therapy sessions.. after 5 days my friend said it triggered his fear of abandonment...he tried to handle it but was suffering at a point. after which he decided to tell her that and if she could tell him what was going on for her.
She responded kind and understanding, they talked about it and he said he trusts her for that. To do that.
she explained what was going on for her in those days.


May it be a reminder for you too,  jaded, as it was for me.

Last night I called him .. it was like nothing ever happened we jumped straight back on the love beam. he said ten times he was so happy I called , so happy.. ( I was a bit overwhelmed and surprised by this sudden happy version of him)
He said we ARE in a relationship and he has been thinking about no one but me in the past year.
For me it felt like a speedboatride on steroids where I slowly got seasick.. I must admit I was happy hanging up. really happy... but almost dizzy because of this sudden shift of emotions.
I feel I went along with his high, it was so very welcome to communicate with love and kindness for a change, and feel appreciated.
Later last night he texted me : 'Thank you for calling, it was lovely'. I replied early this morning : 'a hi and a hug to S( friend he is with) and chest kisses to you .'

Which he read, but no reply.
Then I think again, here we go. ... it takes only one second even to send a smile or a kiss... even if you are in a crazy schedule ( which he isn't now)

I presented this case to my friend just now, who points out to me he would feel the same if his GF would do that. apart from that my friend tried to figure out as to why he does that , he asked me if I thought ExwBPD is intimidated by my independance.
never specifically see myself like that but I know exwBPD mentioned that a few times ( 'I had more exes who were fiercely independent' he said once).
I feel confused and lost right now.

Anyone any guidance on how to act towards him from here? should I confess how it makes me feel, or just persist on silence towards myself, no matter what?

[judee]

Silence towards him,  I meant in the last sentence.

[Cat Familiar]

I’m wondering what your overarching outcome is in communicating with him at all?

He seems to feel, or so he says, that you’re in a “relationship.” How do you feel about that?

Knowing what you went through some months ago, what are you getting by reopening that door?

How do you envision your interactions with him in the future?

Honestly, are you hoping to reconcile?

[judee]

Hi cat,

Honestly, after our talk last night, yes I did..
But then today I got the cold shoulder again, I just am confused and feel my resilience to step away is weakening again, as well as my trust to stay.
I expressed to him that it is hurtful to me to continuously have to deal with this unreciprocity. I said that I do see clearly it is not my problem, this is part of normal intimacy and reciprocity.
And that this feels unhealthy to me. .
In the meantime he just said sorry for that and that he should have taken a second to appreciate that. To me that sounds .. robotic. like I am a burden and he apologises for not taking a 'second'. I don't know.

 I feel like I am slowly becoming like he was in the beginning of our relationship ( but then without a reason, I was continuously reassuring him and immediately responding because otherwise he would get angry or call 7 times. ) I don't do these things, but it just feels like pokeberrybush.
Or am I overreacting now?

[judee]

It feels like he is feeding me crumbs , or not even... and wants me to keep sending him things ( I like it! ), calling him, without him calling me or answering anything. Honestly what is this?
I feel like there is a leech attached to me.

[Cat Familiar]

Believe it the first time when people show you who they are.
I’m not sure of the original author of this quote, but it seems applicable here.

This relationship severely damaged your health in the first go round. You made great effort and progress to reclaim yourself.

You see your ex’s part as unhealthy, as evidenced by speaking with your friend about his relationship with his girlfriend.

What are you getting through reengaging with someone who has in the past, and continues now to treat you so poorly?