We moved out Sunday, Wednesday had dinner as a “family”

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hi all,

For those that have been there, I’m trying to figure out a way to move forward that is healthy for me and my girls.

Last Sunday, the girls and I moved out of the house we had been living in for 9 years.  It was very stressful for all involved, but they really held up well… much better than me.  On Wednesday that same week, my ex called me and invited me to join him and the girls for dinner.  He said he thought it would be good for the girls to see that we can still have dinner and be nice to each other even though we are getting divorced.  I agreed.  Unfortunately, I spent the entire night waiting for him to be nasty to me or passive aggressive, which is what usually happens.  He made a few baiting comments, but nothing major happened.  However, the tension was very obvious to me and the girls. 

I’m torn between wanting the girls to know you can be civil to someone you’re no longer with and not wanting anything to do with him.  I feel like it was a mistake to go to dinner.  Has anyone managed to keep a civil relationship with an ex with BPD?  I’m assuming time will make it easier?

[B2]

Hi all,

For those that have been there, I’m trying to figure out a way to move forward that is healthy for me and my girls.

Last Sunday, the girls and I moved out of the house we had been living in for 9 years.  It was very stressful for all involved, but they really held up well… much better than me.  On Wednesday that same week, my ex called me and invited me to join him and the girls for dinner.  He said he thought it would be good for the girls to see that we can still have dinner and be nice to each other even though we are getting divorced.  I agreed.  Unfortunately, I spent the entire night waiting for him to be nasty to me or passive aggressive, which is what usually happens.  He made a few baiting comments, but nothing major happened.  However, the tension was very obvious to me and the girls. 

I’m torn between wanting the girls to know you can be civil to someone you’re no longer with and not wanting anything to do with him.  I feel like it was a mistake to go to dinner.  Has anyone managed to keep a civil relationship with an ex with BPD?  I’m assuming time will make it easier?

[GaGrl]

My experience was that it took about 18 months after separation to achieve a good for parenting relationship.

There's no reason the girls shouldn't have a midweek dinner/evening with their dad -- but you don't need to attend. You can be polite and civil at pickups and dropoffs.

[Turkish]

Time, boundaries, self-work (and care)... you once said that you were afraid that he might take your youngest (to another country?). How is the custody stipulation going? That can be worked out separately from the divorce, I believe.

My ex wanted to basically pretend not much was different, even though fleeing into the arms of her paramour and introducing him to the kids too early.

I somewhat bought into her desire, still meeting her emotional needs. To this day, 8.5 years after she left, the kids would think it great if we got back together. It took until last year for now D10 to stop bringing it up. She's been separated for 6 years and divorced for 4. Last week she asked if I wanted to go with them to Hawaii.

No.

She's limited in her ability to empathize with others, and your husband is likely similar. I think it's good to periodically do joint meals, or even a movie (no talking there!), but I'd ease into that later and only on your agreed to terms. You're in the middle of a divorce and hashing out custody. Focus upon finishing those goals first.

[B2]

For now, there is no custody arrangement and he won’t even discuss it.  He says he can’t handle it right now and thinks I’m rushing things.  Honestly, its such a relief to be out of the house and not have his toxic moods to deal with, that I’m willing to be flexible (up to a degree!). 

Last night he wanted us to all go out to dinner and for ice cream.  My kids know I need a break from him and they can feel the tension.  My youngest, 12 years old, texted him and said she wanted it to be just him and them.  It was such a huge relief until I got home and he was at our house.  He left not long after I got home, but I’m not sure what to do about that. 

[kells76]

For now, there is no custody arrangement and he won’t even discuss it.

OK, so nothing official at this point. Does he just call/email you when he wants to spend time with the kids? Do you offer? How is this "off the books" arrangement working logistically?

Is any kind of routine starting to develop (i.e. it's turning out that kids spend time with Dad Wednesdays and Sundays)?

However things end up going down the road, start documenting now the time he spends with them & with you. This builds a "status quo" so that later on, if/when a parenting plan needs to get written in detail, you have something to point to, and it won't be that different from what the kids are already doing.

Last night he wanted us to all go out to dinner and for ice cream. 

He's going to want all kinds of stuff. You don't have to participate right now. Sure, it's a beautiful idea that

it would be good for the girls to see that we can still have dinner and be nice to each other even though we are getting divorced.

... but he's got this rigid framework for exactly what "being nice to each other" is -- it's spending time together.

Being cordial and working together during and after divorce doesn't have to equal "Thanksgiving all together" and all those images. "Ice cream with the kids" etc. He's really tied to that for some reason. Probably because it creates a stage where he can "perform his niceness to you" in front of the kids: "See kids, I'm the nice one, I'm the one that wants to be together". It's a setup.

I wouldn't necessarily call him out on it. I'd perhaps slowly "start being busy" at those times, but low key and (if you want) "regretfully": "Thanks for the invitation. I'm booked tonight, have a great time with the kids!" or "Sorry, I can't make it. Let me know if you want me to pick up the kids, otherwise I'll see them when you drop them off at 8. Thanks for driving."

Gut feeling is he doesn't want the "happy family ice cream times" for healthy reasons.

Also, he's saying YOU'RE rushing things? Geez. Same thought as GaGrl, give this time (like months to years) and then maybe, yeah, things will have settled down enough to try stuff together. But right now? I'd lean away from it.

...

It was such a huge relief until I got home and he was at our house.  He left not long after I got home, but I’m not sure what to do about that.

Like inside? If so, you are allowed to change the locks!

Or, was he on the porch/in the driveway? Tougher. Do the kids have house keys? A very normal thing to do when dropping kids at the other parents' house is to wait in the car until the kids are physically inside the house, then leave. This is just safety. If your kids couldn't get in the house then I could maybe see him staying and not just dropping them until you got home. If you're not comfortable with that, then yeah, get housekeys for at least one kid, or just make sure you're back from your thing 10 minutes before drop off time.

If your youngest is 12 then they are more than capable of going from Dad's car to your house without assistance. So you don't have to leave the house, just be inside and unlock the door for the kids.

If he tries to come in... well, we can talk about that.

Thoughts?

[B2]

It’s been months since I’ve even opened this website.  Probably a mistake, but there you go.  We have progressed into a bit of a routine.  I’m doing my best to make healthy boundaries, but he is always pushing them.  I told him a while back that I didn’t want to join them for dinner.  That the girls tell me the tension at dinner is terrible.  He accused me of planting that idea in their head.  I told him that I didn’t, but then am thinking, “am I being invalidating?” 

He still wants to come into the house from time to time and I’m trying not to make a big deal about it.  It’s when he makes himself comfortable on the couch that I start to get frustrated.  At this stage I just go and find something to do.  Confrontation has always been really hard for me.  He, of course, knows this. 

Wednesday nights and Sundays have been his times since that’s when he’s off work.  The hardest part about it is the girls complain about going with him or doing anything with him.  He’s very negative and complains a lot and you never know what sort of mood he’ll be in.  Will you get nice, funny dad or the mean, grumpy dad?   How do I help them with this?  I know dad’s are important, but what if the dad is a total jerk most of the time?

He’s looking at online dating sites and still hasn’t signed any divorce papers.  He tells me about some of the women… this one has 5 kids and is a part of such and such church… It’s weird, but doesn’t actually bother me that much.  I keep thinking if he starts dating someone else, it will take all the pressure off of me.  He asked me if I had started dating someone else or if I had a “FB”…. F*** buddy.   NO.  At this stage, I can’t imagine ever dating anyone else.  And there is no way I would do online dating.  I’m just so relieved to be alone and with just my kids for company.

He calls me 3 or 4 times a day.  And if I don’t answer, will text me telling me to call him.  Sometimes, there is a legitimate reason for the call, but sometimes it’s just to complain or tell me how lonely and miserable he is.  I still hope at some point he will get some professional help.  When he’s really low, he will look, but never follows through.

A couple weeks back, he texted me and asked if I had any second thoughts and if I was okay.  I didn’t know what to say, so I just texted that I was ok.  I don’t have any second thoughts and there is no way I would go back into that situation.  It took so much out of me to leave him.  I just didn’t want to be completely horrible to him or hurt him.

[Turkish]

I told him a while back that I didn’t want to join them for dinner.  That the girls tell me the tension at dinner is terrible.  He accused me of planting that idea in their head.  I told him that I didn’t, but then am thinking, “am I being invalidating?”

Did he hear that from you or from them?  Resist any urge to fix his relationship with them. That ball's in his court.

My T told me years ago, "there's nothing wrong with being kind."

Multiple emotional rescue calls are unreasonable. Any such call is. Kid business is fine. I used to get these, but only when my ex was in crisis. When she wasn't, they stopped. So I was being used. Asserting boundaries isn't unkind.

These times will be tough for a while, especially since divorce and custody hasn't been finalized. I'd try to slowly wean him off of entering your home. It took me years, partly because we did ABA therapy for our son.

As for your daughters? I'd try the validation tools on this site (in the lessons at the top of the board and in the green pull down tabs at the top of the site). They need validation. Angry Dad isn't fun, but they'll have to deal with him as well.

[B2]

Thank you for your response, Turkish.  I will try to not be the go between… between him and the girls.  This is really hard, because I’ve been trying for years to be the one that takes the brunt of his moods.  When I texted him about not going to dinner, I knew he would be horrible about it and I didn’t want him taking it out on girls.  I’ll start today with some of the lessons with the girls.  That’s great advice.  Obviously, they will be dealing with him a lot more than I will in the years to come. 

I was telling a friend about the all the phone calls and she, of course, said “just don’t answer the phone!”  I tried telling her how it will only make him worse.  He won’t just get over it.  He’ll hang on to it and bring it up over and over again.  I know this is something you guys understand more than she does.  Until you’ve lived it, you don’t know how bad it can get.  I guess at this stage, I will continue working on making healthy boundaries, but I also feel like I need to pick my battles as well.  I do think as he gets more used to being on his own… or if he finds a girlfriend, that the phone calls will slow down on their own.