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Author Topic: MIL Triangulation - confused  (Read 2558 times)
FrozenBerry

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« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2022, 05:33:33 PM »


But there was no anger, her mother was trying to be nice with me, buying me expensive gifts, trying to make me happy. She would always gave him a kiss when he went to bed, and once she started giving me kisses too...I was weirded out, but she was obviously trying to include me in their love triangle. She wasn't mean, she didn't hate me, as long as I kept on going and being an active part of their family, without seeking emotional connection with her son. ... Pretty weird typing that out... I think she appreciated that he could have sex with me while she kept all the emotional commitment...


Riverwolf, this story gives me chills...I guess I should be grateful his mother mostly just ignores me... Frustrated/Unfortunate (click to insert in post)

I think this level of calm is pretty much where we were before his mother caught on that our relationship was getting more serious (read: my partner started spending more time away from her to be with me).
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FrozenBerry

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« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2022, 05:48:04 PM »

Failing to individuate in healthy ways from his mom, he may unconsciously want to use you as his crutch to help him perform this separation.

Then, when you fail to deliver this fantasy, he may become angry. You aren't fulfilling this promise to deliver him to an individuated self.

There can be a very dark, shadowy element to these enmeshment triangles where the third person becomes a pawn.

Without a third person, the enmeshed relationship can be unstable. The third person is like a leg that enables them to stabilize their relationship so they can perform the roles they find most familiar.

It sounds like you can see that already. The piece I would be curious about with their enmeshment is whether your partner is expecting you to do what is actually his responsibility.

If you fail to help him individuate, he can then confirm for himself: See? It is impossible to break free of mother.


LivedandLearned, I'm not sure I understand - but I would very much like to! How would the fantasy world look like where I help him individuate in his head? He starts his own relationship and mother let's him go and wishes him best of luck? Or am I misunderstanding your point here?

To my knowledge, they were going through a rough patch before my partner and I met, with him reaching his limit on how much he felt he could continue to support her. He described the period as extremely exhausting (of course he does not see his mother as having any responsibility for this, as she was 'attacked' by circumstances and people he needed to protect her from *sigh*). Anyway, my suspicion has been that he found me because he felt like he couldn't do it alone anymore and needed support. Is this what you mean?


BPD mother can meet all his emotional needs but she can't meet his sexual needs. There needs to be a third party for this- someone who can do what his mother can not do and she knows it and if the son is straight, that person is another woman.

NotWendy, from reading on the boards I was under the impression that it might be hard for her to meet his emotional needs if she has BPD tendencies? Is this incorrect? Either way, my feeling is that she strongly prefers him to date casually, which he has done mostly as far as I know.
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Notwendy
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« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2022, 05:10:28 AM »

I probably should have clarified that "meeting emotional needs" is more on the family dynamic level than like meeting the need for  emotionally healthy romantic relationship. BPD mother ( or any mother ) can't meet the needs for a romantic relationship. The natural course of growing up is that when a boy is little, Mom is their special person but in time, we know that this changes, and at some point the spouse is.

I think enmeshment changes this. It's not the same kind of attachment as a child to an emotionally healthy mother. A child needs a secure attachment to the parent in order to separate into their own individual self. This might sound backwards but from raising my own kids, it means feeling secure enough to be able to push the parent away while still knowing you won't lose their love.

Teens are a challenge at times. They don't know exactly who they are yet. They know they aren't their parents and so may be critical or rejecting of their parents' ideas. I am not talking about acting out in a bad way. It's the "Mom, can you drive me to the mall but don't walk anywhere near me because I don't want my friends to see that" kind of push and sometimes they aren't so nice about it. A parent needs to have a strong sense of self to be able to not take this so personally. The process of a child differentiating also involves a change for the parent who needs to adjust from parenting a child to an a more adult relationship. The child also needs to feel secure enough to not be afraid to do this out of fear of losing the parents love or fear of their reaction.

 A parent with a PD sees their child as an extension of themselves and their purpose is to meet their emotional needs. If the child becomes "Mommy's little man" they are given special status for meeting her affection needs. This doesn't necessarily mean incestual in the physical sense but it is in the emotional sense. It's not the child's responsibility to meet their mother's needs, but it gets them special status and attention, attention they might lose if they don't fill that role. As they become adults, they then have the sexual/romantic need- but  still want to have both romantic and parental love. Wanting a parent to love us is an emotional need for a child. We may not need it in the same way as an adult but we still want a connection to a parent. A romantic relationship is entirely different and people can want and have both.

I think it's normal for your BF to want a relationship with both you and his mother. It's not a competition. These are different relationships.  However somehow it's different when the parent has BPD. From my experience, BPD mother somehow acted like if if my father had affection for a female family member it took something away from her. Your BF wants what any straight man wants- both a romantic relationship with you- a woman- and also a loving relationship with his mother. BPD mother seemed to be more irked over relationships with female relatives than male.

It's navigating these relationships that could be the challenge and it may not be possible to have both of you be content with it but it makes sense he'd try to achieve that.

I don't want to imply that having a BPD parent makes an emotionally healthy romantic relationship impossible. It's having a "normal" relationship with a parent too that is the challenge. Your BF's mother may understand that he has sexual and romantic needs but feels more comfortable if these are met in less committed relationships. This meets your BF's emotional need to not upset his mother.

Your BF may want more than that with you, but to achieve that, he may make his mother unhappy. I think many of us have faced this dilemma at some point. For me, it was protecting myself and my children. Having boundaries with BPD mother made her unhappy. I didn't want to make my parents unhappy. Your BF may also be dealing with such type of conflict.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 05:18:15 AM by Notwendy » Logged
FrozenBerry

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« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2022, 08:23:29 AM »

Thank you, that makes a lot of sense!
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livednlearned
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« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2022, 01:48:16 PM »

How would the fantasy world look like where I help him individuate in his head? He starts his own relationship and mother let's him go and wishes him best of luck?

Some of it might be "let him go" in a physical sense, but much of it is internal, in his head. How he sees himself in relation to his mother, whether he can recognize that he has a life separate from her, not tied to how she feels or what she needs or wants.

A healthy mother would take steps to champion her young child to separate safely and become a whole, full distinct self independent of her. This is hard for a BPD parent. Typically, this healthy separation happens during the developmental ages between 0-6.

Having no real sense of self, and having no real boundaries, a BPD mother sees her children as an extension of her, which reverses the natural parenting order. Instead of providing emotional support to her children, she expects them to provide her with emotional support, and this stunts the individuation process for children who instinctively recognize it's unsafe to be themselves.

An enmeshed adult child like your BF may want to individuate but can't. The intensity of the guilt may be too much to tolerate -- it could feel like annihilation to try and go it alone.

In your case, it's possible that your BF, who may unconsciously fantasize to separate from his mom, transfers the responsibility for this job to you. He has a lifetime not finding the strength to do so and may see you as someone who has the x factor he needs.

It's probably not conscious.

my suspicion has been that he found me because he felt like he couldn't do it alone anymore and needed support. Is this what you mean?

He probably wants the support from a partner in dealing with her, and there are healthy versions of that. But it can also be unhealthy and there's a bunch of ways this can manifest.  

For example, my H was overwhelmed by the needs of his BPD adult daughter. Instead of asserting boundaries directly with her, he would use me to take breaks from her. It took years for me to realize that he (unconsciously?) was unable to assert boundaries directly with her so he used alternative ways to create the distance he wanted. He pawned her off on me and I became an unwitting babysitter to a grown adult woman, until asserting my own boundaries.

Another example more likely in your situation is that you set boundaries about how you will engage with MIL, which on one level he admires and knows is healthy, and may even emulate for a time, but when the emotional demands of his mother increases beyond what he is capable of tolerating he blames you for things ending badly.

You showed him the path he wants to walk but you won't walk it for him and that causes him to act out toward the safer, not ballistic person, which is you.

Codependence and enmeshment run on a continuum like everything else. I don't know why some people work their way toward the light and others don't, but I do believe everyone is at least aware of the light. If the script in your BF's head is, "I see the light but every time I go toward it I get burned," it will be harder than if his script is, "I see the light and keep getting knocked off course but I have to keep trying."

He's going to feel scared. It's scary having a BPD family member. It's intense and requires tremendous strength to overcome the hard wiring. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is look for tiny little changes that things are moving in the right direction.  Doing the right thing (click to insert in post)

Edited to add: A really helpful book to read is In Search of the Real Self by James Masterson. He's a personality theorist who compares what healthy development looks like compared to the damage incurred when a primary caregiver fails to support that healthy development.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2022, 01:54:30 PM by livednlearned » Logged

Breathe.
FrozenBerry

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« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2022, 11:35:10 PM »

I get it now, and I think some of this is already in motion. Thank you for laying this out for me! Truly grateful.
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