Co-parenting: 7th Grader Grades Crash

[Turkish]

S12 did well in school from TK to 6th grade. He's in advanced math, but now his other grades are crashing and burning with multiple Fs. It isn't that the material is difficult, but rather that he's missing assignments. These aren't hard, like "label and color a map of X country." This seems 3rd grade to me.

He did so well in 6th that I didn't monitor with the school app. I am now! How teachers gave him a break and a chance to make it up, which I told him was kind. I didn't get that in school and he likely wouldn't at a job. He did some both here and at his mom's. We go week to week with a mid-week switch day (D10 wanted that).

"You still have an F. Did you turn in your assignments?"

"No. I forgot."

He then tried to rationalize that 1 F was OK if he got all As going forward. "Uh, no. That brings down your average." 4 As and 1 F equal a C.

He was Dx'd with ASD1 in 2nd grade. He has 504 accommodations but didn't qualify for an IEP. I sent an email to the two teachers of the 3 classes and copied his mom. I told the teachers that we needed to do our jobs not to cause them more work. One teachers responded, "that's very responsible of you."

What a low bar.

I've been telling our son that he risks being sent back into classes with the dumb kids (forgive me, I'm from the '80s), "Uh, don't quote me, but what I mean is with kids who don't care and that can bring you down." <stares off into space>

Similary, "there are tons of clubs and sports that you can join. What do you want to join?"

"Nothing."

"Not even gaming club?"

"It's full."

"I know you don't like sports, but what about cross-country?"

"I don't have good endurance."

"Yes, that's why you run, to get endurance."

<blank stare>

"What's going on?"

"Nothing."

"Do you need therapy?"

"No!"

"Are you depressed"

"No! Lol. <turns to look me in the eyes> if I were depressed, I'd be in my room in the dark sleeping!"

Strange that he understands that...

I sent a text to his mom with screen shot of the app with his grades, still no answer on whether she downloaded the app or not. I talked about him crashing and burning and no interest in extra curriculars, along with sympathy about him not being a "joiner" as we weren't either. Her basic response was to leave him alone and that he'll come around and that we can only provide guidance. That isn't guidance.

He isn't argumentative; he's a nice kid. I suggested to the teacher that this change might be "puberty brain."

[Notwendy]

Turkish- one thing to consider with a child with mild ASD is that while kids on the spectrum can be smart enough to not need academic accommodations, the bar for social skills in school goes way up at puberty and in addition, middle school- junior high school kids can be mean. There is an underlying social culture at this age which can be emotionally difficult for kids on the spectrum to navigate. Your son may not have anyone to sit with at lunch. He could be teased or worse, bullied.

Poor school performance can be due to many reasons. This might look like ADD to the teachers but for a child with ASD- anxiety can be the cause and it could look similar to ADD. Middle school can be the hardest stage socially for a child on the spectrum. High school can be tough too, but sometimes there are more social niches there for them to find as the school is larger.

I know some kids ( now young adults )who are mildly on the spectrum- friends of my kids. Middle school was a tough time. They found their niche later-but I recall a time when the mother of one of them told me her child came home crying because nobody would sit with her at the lunch table in high school. These kids tended to stay home because they felt safer there. Asking your son to join a club sounds simple but it may feel like a huge social challenge to him.

504 plans- focus on academic needs. The responsibility of the school is to provide what the child needs to learn academically. Other interventions are on the parent. I think most areas have supports for people on the spectrum- autism societies etc and there are probably counselors who can help with social skills and anxiety. He may also need more structure with keeping up with assignments- a planner- a way to keep up with due dates- he may be able to do the assignments but the executive planning- keeping up with them may be a challenge for him.

His BPD mother may be a part of his issues but this can happen with kids on the spectrum as it is. It was about age 12 that I could tell my mother's behavior was different. There were times she was acting more like a child than I was and it felt confusing. I don't know how much his mother is affected but mine is severely BPD. We didn't know what kind of mood she'd be in when we got home from school. Her behaviors were scary sometimes too. I am not on the spectrum and I don't have ADD. At this time, teachers would report that I wasn't turning in homework, or paying attention at school- "tuning out" was a coping mechanism for me. Anxiety and low self esteem were a part as well, due to the things my mother would say to me. Nobody knew what was going on at home and there's no way my parents would have said anything about my mother. School work was not a challenge, and I still managed to get good enough grades but my work was inconsistent.

I don't think your son's grades are the problem. I think they are signs that he's struggling with something else related to school like social challenges and possibly the emotions of puberty+ a BPD mother. I think it's important to not criticize him personally over the homework - he does need to do his school work, but I think it's worth him seeing a counselor - someone he can talk to and someone who can help him navigate the social climate at school, and also see how he's doing with his mother. Teachers and parents may assume the child is being lazy or misbehaving- and kids can do that as well, but this could also be a sign of him being emotionally stressed.

[kells76]

I can't remember where I heard this, but I read a comment somewhere about mental development being "broadly linear" in "broadly normal" kids, but more "stair step" in kids on the spectrum. If this isn't accurate, correct me!

If it is accurate, I wonder if your son is on a "normal for him" developmental plateau mental/academic-wise, where he was at or above expectations for a long time (the stair step) and now his peers are catching up or past him as he waits for the next stair step.

Not an excuse, more an idea for why this is showing up so starkly now.

How does he respond to collaborative problem solving? On the academic side, wondering if you and he came up with a "grades agreement" together if he would have more skin in the game. Some kind of reward that is "in his currency"?

Notwendy's idea that he may need more scaffolding/structure externally to help with executive function makes sense.

Does the school have a "homework club"?

...

Also, it's interesting that he rationalizes his F as from "forgetting" -- seems like you can ju-jitsu that a little bit. "Oh, it was just forgetting? So it wasn't on purpose, it's not like you were trying to forget? So you'd agree that you'd have no problem with having help remembering, having help knowing to get it done?"

If he's going to stick with the "it's just because I forgot" reason, you can take that and really run with it 

[livednlearned]

I found with S21 (also ASD) that we had to look at logical consequences together then work back from there. The blunter the better.

I also have to be very blunt about what's in it for me.

"If you sleep in late, I have to drive faster to get you to school on time and that increases a chance of me crashing."

Then run through scenarios. "You're sleeping in late and it takes you a long time to wake up. The logical thing is to turn off the Internet at night and remove devices to increase the odds of better sleep."

He saw the logic in that, and he's a caring kid when it comes to other people, but also wants to feel like the solution is fair. I can't overstate how important it is to S21 that things feel fair, which I think may also be associated with the way ASD presents in him. His integrity is unwavering.

So we work towards agreements: if he is in the car at x o'clock, Internet stays on at night. If he's not on time, Internet goes off that night.

S21's executive skills, like a lot of kids with ASD, aren't great. He would do his homework at school and then just not hand it in. So we worked with the sped counselor and worked on different strategies with his input. The high-touch approach of having daily procedures involving multiple steps irritated S21 in middle school so he became motivated to just hand things in rather than the hassle of dealing with the system we co-created.

Things got better then went downhill in high school. I came up with: we get a tutor to help when grades go below a B.

S21 has innate abilities and doesn't like having tutors so that motivated him to hand things in.

There are some good resources on aspergerexperts.com, like the Accountability Plan and stuff about the sensory funnel.

Does S12 have any specific sensory issues?

[Turkish]

S21's executive skills, like a lot of kids with ASD, aren't great. He would do his homework at school and then just not hand it in.

Your S21 sounds very similar to my son. I just picked them up. I showed him Powerschool, which the kids can also access, and told him it was great that he took one F to an A, but the F to a C needed work and he was still at an F in English with two missing assignments. I told him no TV this weekend if he doesn't rectify it by tomorrow. His laptop is at him mom's.  I don't let him use my tablet other than to do wordle.

I offered to pick him up after school and skip "after school" as I'm picking up his sister for a medical appointment. He thought about it but said no as they're picking electives tomorrow for the after school program. He's interested in Top Chef, gardening, gaming and a painting class so that's good.

Thanks for the Asperger's resources and logical consequences.

He says things are OK at school. He can be in his head sometimes, but he's pretty sociable to his circle of friends.

"Is mommy treating you OK?"

"Yes."

"Am I treating you OK?"

"YES!" (as if there were no question).

"Well that can change!"

There is a lack of child therapists at our HMO (kaiser). Those that didn't quit went on strike. It's quite a controversy here in Cali. I don't think he needs therapy, but I might reach out to school resources if this continues. That would be a logical consequence.

[Notwendy]

I have a relative in California on the Kaiser plan. Seems they rule health care in that state. I think the pandemic has increased the need for mental health all the way around. I can imagine child counselors are over booked everywhere.

The school guidance counselor could be a resource.

Yes, it's hard to know if this is being pre-teen boy or stress. It's good that he has friends and wants to stay after school for the activities.

Considering some of the school work you described, he might also be bored with it and have no motivation to do it. One idea might be to ask the teacher for an alternate assignment that is more at his level.

[ForeverDad]

About the stair step concept... in early grade school son was a nice kid but teachers consistently reported he was always very distracted and distracting in school.  He read by words rather than by phrases and sentences.  But in the middle of 3rd grade something clicked and he was able to get his act together.

Similarly, he would forget to turn in assignments.  One class (non-English language) he was consistently getting just barely an F.  I pleaded with him to just get a few more points for a D.  Didn't happen.  Looking back, he admits he just didn't like the class.

He's an adult now but when I asked his perspective it really got a more animated reaction than I expected.  I didn't get much more to share here but he did add that the parental discord was an environmental factor.

As much as I did try my best to be a positive dad, he still saw me as contributing to his stress, of course less than his other parent.

[Turkish]

He was a advanced reader early on. You both are right in that it might be boredom. I was like that in a lot of classes. I remember in 7th grade that we had to do a Me Box. Dumbest thing I ever heard of in my life, not to mention what the  was I going to put into it as my mom had just moved us to the mountains circa 1883 with not even a outhouse. I was surviving.

I had also just read Stephen King's The Stand over the summer after 6th grade as my first adult book, and then went onto the first four Dune novels, finishing in 8th. Me Boxes seemed like baby stuff. Maybe he is bored. Didn't think of that! I'll talk to him to see if this might be the case.

So I'll encourage him to do very well so he can get into advanced English Language Arts as he is in math so far. I wish I'd had his math talent though 

[Notwendy]

One of my peeves about schools is their testing requirements. I agree there needs to be certain standards for each grade level, but when funding is attached to student scores, and the schools need the funding, they do a lot of "teaching to the test". I get it, it's a double edge for them. They need the funds to help the students and if the students don't meet the scores and they don't get funds, they have less to help them with.

Have you seen some of the books they assign? When my children were in school, some of them weren't interesting at all to a child. I understand requiring students to read a variety of topics but kids also like to read about what interests them and some of the books I saw assigned to my kids didn't seem to be anything a kid would be interested in. Some of them were interesting and my kids remember these books.

Kids on the spectrum tend to have specific interests. Perhaps you can meet with his teacher and ask what education goals they have for the class. If it's more about reading level than content, maybe you can substitute a similar or higher reading level book that your child is interested in over something he won't read. Or a substitute homework assignment. I think it's a good idea to work to get him in the higher level reading group if he's above the reading level of the assigned books- but he'll be more motivated to read something he wants to read.

When was the last time he was evaluated for academic levels? Some schools will move a child to a higher level reading group if their standardized tests show they are at that level. You may be able to request this due to his change in grades, or pay for a professional to do it on your own.

[ForeverDad]

Some schools will move a child to a higher level reading group if their standardized tests show they are at that level.

Me.  When I started 6th grade, then the last year of elementary school, the reading teacher had us each read a paragraph.  One paragraph?  I was placed in the slower or remedial group in class.  We had easier stories to read.  Believe it or not, I look back on that year with fond memories... that's when my love of reading started, I got to read two sets of stories.

Thereafter I was an avid reader, typically novels.  I recall one year in high school I read about 100 books.  So far as I know I was the only student allowed to take out newly arrived books even before they'd been taken out of their boxes and entered in the system.

Everyone's path is a little different.

[livednlearned]

The boredom can intensify in 8th grade. That tends to be the grade when the testing becomes extreme because schools are trying to hit more benchmarks.

In S21's 8th grade, they just kept teaching the same material they learned in 6th and 7th and then S13 was bored out of his mind. Plus, similar to what Notwendy mentioned, the social complexities compounded and magnified as puberty hit.

[Turkish]

2 Fs turned to As, and 1 F into a C though S12 assured me today that he turned in missing assignments.

The Principal requested a meeting next week. I was commuting when her proxy called me. They had left messages with mom. I agreed on the time and face-to-face rather than zoom. Mom was OK and told me that it was to touch base about his 504.

I praised S12 about bringing his grades up and mentioned the meeting. He had no idea about 504 accommodations. He was Dx'd in 1st grade. Earlier this year I mentioned autism and he told me, "I'm a regular kid." My friends agree that he can be quirky, but that he's a regular kid.

Today he showed me that a kid said, "come here," and pulled out the hoodie string in his pullover. He does tend to be naive.

We'll see how this meeting goes.

[SinisterComplex]

2 Fs turned to As, and 1 F into a C though S12 assured me today that he turned in missing assignments.

The Principal requested a meeting next week. I was commuting when her proxy called me. They had left messages with mom. I agreed on the time and face-to-face rather than zoom. Mom was OK and told me that it was to touch base about his 504.

I praised S12 about bringing his grades up and mentioned the meeting. He had no idea about 504 accommodations. He was Dx'd in 1st grade. Earlier this year I mentioned autism and he told me, "I'm a regular kid." My friends agree that he can be quirky, but that he's a regular kid.

Today he showed me that a kid said, "come here," and pulled out the hoodie string in his pullover. He does tend to be naive.

We'll see how this meeting goes.

Possible that you have a prodigy on your hands Turk. ;-). One thing I will share is that growing up with high level intelligence is both a gift and a curse. It can be isolating. Perhaps, there is a little bit of that going on. I mean speaking from experience...when you are super smart you get treated like there is something wrong with you because you are different from the other kids. Sometimes you start acting dumb or doing dumb things on purpose just to blend in because you don't want to deal with the pressure and the scrutiny. The I'm a regular kid response tells me he feels like he may be under a magnifying glass and it bothers him.

When it comes to the grades there could be a thought process of this material isn't keeping up with me, but because I do not want to get treated differently or be picked on I'll just go with the flow and at least be average. Just a thought. I could be way off base, but just offering up a perspective and angle for you to ponder...

Cheers and best wishes mi amigo!

-SC-

[Notwendy]

I agree with SC- if the work is either too easy or too difficult, a kid may simply refuse to do it. One reason is boredom, the other is that they'd rather get punished for not doing it than admit they find it hard.

I don't know the school guidelines about ability/achievement testing in you area but it may be that they will do it if you request it or their guidelines say they don't have to as they only do it so often. The school is only obligated to do so much and with limited funding, you might want to do more on your own.

A lot has changed since first grade. The academics are more complex. If you don't have a recent assessment of where your son is academically, it may help to see where he is.

What you don't want to do is attribute this to "laziness" where he might actually need some different accommodations. It might also be "executive" function where he needs help keeping up with assignments rather than with the academic part of them.

[Turkish]

We had his 504 Plan meeting today which my son attended. His ELA teacher was there, finally good to meet her in person, and he had her last year. He always participated in class, but she noticed that he has become more social. He didn't even know he had a 504, so it was good to include him. We took several “symptoms” off the list.

The school staff observed that they notice a change in middle school with a lot of students so he's not alone. Normal? Likely exacerbated by 1.5 years of covid learning. Like I quipped, puberty brain? I asked him how he felt getting As as opposed to poor grades and he felt better. We also removed a few accommodations. I'll still be on him like white on rice going forward. I told his teacher that I didn't even download the Powerschool app last year because he was doing very well. She agreed that he was. Though his little sister, 10 in 5th, and their mom have ongoing issues, he doesn't with either parent in our separate homes.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Though his little sister, 10 in 5th, and their mom have ongoing issues, he doesn't with either parent in our separate homes.

Feeling unseen by mom?

I was raised with two brothers by a BPD mother and she didn't treat us the same. At all.

I also came to say your kid might just be gifted. And bored. And feeling unseen.

And indeed, being a gifted teenager is awfully isolating. I just put two and two together this year. A gifted person don't know they are gifted. Add emotional trauma to it and they feel not only different but their self awareness don't let them get away with it. As a teenager, you think everyone is the same, you don't have the social skills yet to understand how to adjust yourself to who you are talking. This is learned later. So you are tagged as different and odd. I remember trying to blend it by misbehaving. And because there was dysfunction at home. A cry for attention I never got. It wasn't worth it in the end.

I remember drifting in school. I was so very bored. But this was also the only place I felt safe. while the social dilemma there gave me severe anxiety. I remember feeling panic everytime it was time to step outside a classroom and get into the jungle. Hated it.

But it is also the only place I got a bit of attention from teachers when I did well. So I kept the good grades up without any need to work on anything. I was trying to be praised by my father. Both parents didnt give a damn. Ended up almost failing my math toward the end. Was always stoned and simply stopped going to school. This period of my life was one of the hardest. Would be told I was different by other teenager. I wasn't bullied, but I couldn't make any friends. Started feeling depressed. Stopped attending. But my grades were good. Was gifted. So teachers didn't care. I flew under the radar until a low point where I just wanted to throw myself off a cliff. I ended up leaving with a backpack and travelled, thanks to my sweet marijuana... I was self medicated, I see that now.

Experts now see ADHD and kids on the spectrum everywhere. Don't forget that emotional trauma will change a kids brain too. I had a CT scan last year. The radiologist wrote down my brain was more shrinked than average population...made sense when I read The body keeps the score.

Being on high alert 50% of the time while your brain develops will do that to you. It's not necessarily autism. Thinking back on it, maybe I'd had been diagnosed with something too if someone has bothered to pay attention, something they just didn't do back then. Drugged. I was just a gifted little girl, traumatized and mefiant, living on high alert and mostly unseen.

My mother was life your wife : letting me be. It was gross neglect. I could see someone deliberately self sabotaging for various reasons... 1 to fit in, 2 to get attention, 3 because they don't care anymore.  

Keep being interested in him, it matters. But cut him some slack too... Schools are boring, he has a point. I understand you wanting him to succeed, but maybe explaining him why would help.

Agreeing with him.

Could you imagine having to do unpaid homework after your work hours?? Maybe he will get along with it better if he knows you agree that it is dumb, but this is the society we chose. And while you know he is smart, he needs that stupid diploma for the rest of the world to know it too, so that some day, he can be his own man.

Teach him about the future.

You don't do a2+b2=c2 because it is useful in your everyday life, you do it to train your brain in puzzles, to learn the language early, so that when life throws you lemons, you get to figure out how to make lemonade with it faster. Maths make people more rational.

It's all about perspective.

I wish someone would have told me the actual truth and not treat me like a teenager back then. I had stopped behind a child a long time ago.

[ForeverDad]

Though his little sister, 10 in 5th, and their mom have ongoing issues, he doesn't with either parent in our separate homes.

Feeling unseen by mom?

Years ago we had discussions that some pwBPD are prone to favor one child over the others, or one gender over the others.  Could that be another factor here, if not the primary one?  Mother treating the son differently than the daughter?

[GaGrl]

Feeling unseen by mom?

Years ago we had discussions that some pwBPD are prone to favor one child over the others, or one gender over the others.  Could that be another factor here, if not the primary one?  Mother treating the son differently than the daughter?

My husband's ex-wife treated their children very differently. The son was the Golden Child and could do no wrong. Both girls were emotionally and verbally abused.

[Turkish]

I don't think that he's bored so much as just "sometimes I forget" to turn in assignments. Many people observed that he was very smart since toddlerhood. People still say that.

The IQ tests he took in 1st grade when we had him evaluated averaged out to 121. He scored 98th percentile on one visual-spatial test, not surprising. 121 isn't gifted. Going into 6th, he was evaluated with a more standard test rubric and he scored 105, so average. Not to be "one of those" parents, but I expressed surprise. The evaluator said that the tests are timed and taking too long can drag down scores, that makes sense given his rigidness regarding some things. No adult that's known him for years would say that he's average.

I really don't think mommy ignores him, despite my surprise about she not being initially concerned about his grades, but I took point on that. Given her conflict with D10, she'd pay more attention to him than her though I'll keep an eye on this.

My ex was kind of the golden child in a way, but also enmeshed with her mother. I don't see this dynamic with our kids right now. S12 seems OK at either home, it's D10 that is a bit more the worry.

Maybe I should start a "parenting a tween girl" thread. She was crying today after playing well... for a while, with S12 and the neighbor boys. Then she felt put out when we dropped him off for his buddy's 13th birthday party. She was crying about feeling so alone, that she wished that she were depressed so she could stay in her room alone, that animals were better than people because the didn't judge you and loved you no matter what.  

When we picked up S12, the party was still going. There were two younger sisters there that D played with. Though a Sikh family, they all got to do the piñata, including D. The dad knew a guy I used to work with recently so we connected. He knew my company and he did mine. He said next time he'd invited me and my daughter though no other families were invited.

D10 left feeling pretty good, and with a gift bag as well. It was a good ending after an afternoon of me trying to comfort her and maybe JADEing a little. Taking her for ice cream did help... a little.

It's hard to connect with other families being a 50yo guy with two tween kids. I didn't really do it at the church we attended for 6 years with mostly married couples and younger single mothers.

[Notwendy]

Mood swings are common with tweens, teens, and socially, what seems like a small thing to an adult can be a big deal to them but this is also a time where concerns about depression, bullying, can happen too.

One thing I noticed that compared to middle school boys, middle school girls are more socially aware but also that middle school can be the time where they are the meanest to each other. Although the "mean girl" movies are sometimes exaggerated, they have some basis in reality. Something like not wearing the right outfit can be a social drama for a middle school girl. Who you sit with at lunch can be an issue.

One serious phenomena these days is cyber bullying between teen agers.

I'd bring up any concerns with the T and let the T work with her to determine if this is tween moodiness or something more concerning.

[Notwendy]

Anxiety can affect test performance and school performance. Hard to know what is your son's exact IQ except that you know he's capable of doing well in school. As the academics get more challenging - other factors- executive function, study habits, promote school achievement. IQ helps but one has to do the school work.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Maybe I should start a "parenting a tween girl" thread. She was crying today after playing well... for a while, with S12 and the neighbor boys. Then she felt put out when we dropped him off for his buddy's 13th birthday party. She was crying about feeling so alone, that she wished that she were depressed so she could stay in her room alone, that animals were better than people because the didn't judge you and loved you no matter what.  

It's rough, bit in a way, it is a good sign that she feels she can cry with you. She can be vulnerable and a healthy adult is there to hear her. It's a good sign that she feels comfortable with you and is safely attached.

When I got to those ages is when I completely stopped showing vulnerability to both my parents. Because my father brushed me off and didn't care, and because it was dangerous with my mother. The fact your daughter still talks to you is good. Doesnt seem like you need any help, you are doing well  

Does she have trouble self regulating her emotions in general? We all have bad days, but generally speaking, how is she doing?

As for your son... 120 is high enough to be bored, but you know him and the context better. just shooting in the dark here mostly. it might just be that he needs to develop some organizing skills too, which clearly doesn't come naturally to everyone... Seeing how my husband can lose his sunglasses while having them on his head.

I'm also sorry you feel it hard to connect with other families. I get it, but I personally don't see the age of the other parents I connect with. If they have children the age of my children, it's all the same to me. My neighbor is fifty, and he has a 3 years old and just had a baby (second family). I honestly don't care his age, and would have them over for a beer 30 or 50 .. if they were safe people anyway. I admit something about his wife unnerves me a bit.

Anyway ! Just saying...When we hit thirty, as long as you are willing to let go of your own feelings about hanging out with 30-40 years old, I do think we are all very similar.. it's not so much about the age range as it is about what is happening in our life. And having kids the same age is enough to get something to talk about and connect.

[ForeverDad]

My ex was kind of the golden child in a way, but also enmeshed with her mother.

My ex and her sister were abused at night regularly by their SF.  Neither knew the other was being abused.  He would manipulate saying, "I'll do it to your sister if you don't let me do this."  And when they tried to broach abuse with their mother, she said, "If you do anything with my (paycheck provider) husband, I'll kick you out".  I was not sad when he died in a hospital after surgery several years later.

I tell that because her sister went a bit wacko for a few years in her early twenties.  My then-spouse was so proud she didn't.  Then in her mid-thirties with a baby our marriage was sabotaged and imploded.

I guess people are different and can process things differently.

It's hard to connect with other families being a 50yo guy with two tween kids.

I was 50 with a preschooler when my marriage imploded.

[Notwendy]

I think it's more gender than age. I have made it work with some fathers but it can look a bit awkward and I keep a greater social distance- it's more business like than pals with another mom. One of my kids became close with a classmate who had a mentally ill mother- not BPD but sadly, severe depression that impacted her functioning. I recall taking a group of  kids somewhere and it was the two of us as the supervising adults. I recall my H asking "is something going on" but I explained the situation to him. This father was a gentleman the whole time. There was not anything inappropriate about it but socially - it didn't fit the norm. I never did ask him about his wife- that would have crossed a line and no doubt he would not be comfortable discussing the situation. I did figure it out though- met the mother a couple of times and could see she was not acting OK and of course he also met my H and my H was there with the kids sometimes too.


I think the most awkward situation would be sleepovers with your daughter. I think it's easier when there's a mom around, just for the dynamics and safety. Kids will say anything these days and you need to feel protected too.

But it can work- I think it's important to have good boundaries- which you do, and make it always about the kids and if the kids are there all the time, it's a safe situation. On our part, the circle of moms was glad to help out a single dad- carpooling, play dates, but we need to have stronger boundaries. We aren't just going to hang out with Dads like we do with other moms, but from my experience, we would help make the experiences good for the kids.

[Turkish]

Re: families... I think the neighbor boys, 10-14, may be my bonus kids. If I've been hosting them in our home. S12 is a good host, but I've told them that he also needs to manageb them a little better. They're polite and respectful though. D10 played well with them today. I gave permission for the boys to walk a mile to the park. I drove myself and D10. I didn't ask their parents. They returned alive 

I'd still like more adult interaction, but I'm feeling good that the kids have friends. D's only complaint today was about one minor incident with her brother.

[Turkish]

Re: IQ...

When the kids were in TK/K, my ex kept calling them "geniuses." I told her not to call them that because that was a burden, not to mention <1%. We didn't argue about it much, but I kept mentioning it. That was likely more about her, and she hasn't talked like that for years.

When I was in 7th grade, my mom had me tested for GATE (Gifted and Talented). I didn't make the then mark of an IQ of 140 for the  program. Test aside, we were living in the woods with no electricity, plumbing (not even an outhouse), ate food room temp out of cans, not to mention a lot of other things. We were quasi-homeless and a few times really homeless, my mom didn't get it: I didn't give a  . about grades. I was surviving. Not to mention BPD wackiness, cops, CPS...

She could do long division in her head, which was impressive, and I felt shamed that I was poor at math. I felt that she held that 1 IQ point score beating me over me. Like "why aren't you smarter [in school]?" Before we moved to Little House On The Prairie, she spent money for me to go to an education camp. It didn't help; that wasn't the problem.

This all is more PSI Board stuff, but I'm not going to guilt or pressure my kids like I was.

[I Am Redeemed]

I hear you on guilting and pressuring.

Guess I'll go down the PSI track with you. I was pressured as a kid. The only praise I remember getting was for being smart. I was taught to read at 3 and my earliest memory is reading words off flash cards for the whole extended family.

Most of the rest of the time, I was the invisible kid who tried to fly under the radar so as not to attract negative attention and be the target of the screaming and yelling that went on in our house.

To this day, I have anxiety if I don't keep my 4.0 in grad school because I saw my worth as a child tied up in performance.

I don't ask perfection or excellence from my kids. Some people are learners but don't get the grades to reflect it. Some people can memorize really well or test really well, but don't retain the information.

Being "good enough" is something I always struggled with and I don't want to pass down the family value of performance determining worth.

[Notwendy]

I share some PSI material here too but it's also the parenting board so it's with the hope of sharing the perspective of the kids in such types of relationships. I think when the partner with BPD has the most overtly disordered behaviors, other behaviors seem less in comparison and there tends to be a focus on the most urgent issues- which tend to be the pwBPD.

Children respond to a disordered parent in different ways, sometimes acting out a lot, and sometimes more subtle. Not doing assignments might be something to do with them- maybe a learning difference or ADD- or anxiety, or that it's hard to study at home, or parents aren't available to assist with homework. This might require more evaluation to see what is going on.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Re: IQ...

This all is more PSI Board stuff, but I'm not going to guilt or pressure my kids like I was.

I get that. And in all fairness, it might not be boredom either.

However, I don't know where you are, but from here, looking at the "no child left behind" changes that were made in USA, I sometimes wonder if we didn't make it worst. I say "we" because of course we followed them in that direction. Canada simply doesn't have a spine.

We dumbed down the curriculum in schools a lot. I remember, in university, we had a class in statistical modeling of environmental elements, practical mathematics. The teacher gave the exact same exam that was given in 1984. Back then, the average grade was around 80%. In my year, the average was 60% ! A lot of of the students went complaining to the director of the program and the teacher was asked to major the grades because "they didn't have enough time". But the standard was kept the exact same. Two of us had a grade over 90%. Imagine my feeling... I was being told it didn't matter. I would make a marvelous engineer, that no one would find because of the sea of poor engineers that would make it out of school anyway. Now what do we have? Crumbling societies, dams that breach and road bridges that collapse.  

You felt pressured, and I am sorry for that. On my end : I was shamed for being smart, and had to dumb myself down over time to survive my own family. My mother was happy when I failed, and guiltripped me when I succeeded. As a result : I succeeded in life, don't get me wrong, but I know, deep within, that I had it in me to do so much more. But in my generation, and especially in my province, people don't look kindly on smart people.

Somehow, we have special classes for individuals that struggle more, but we request the smarter one to accept being bored, to hide their true potential, as if their giftedness meant the others had less value. I certainly don't feel this way. My husband is not gifted yet he teaches me an awful lot of things. Being gifted merely means that you travel from point A to E faster than the general population. But you still need to work, and discipline yourself. You still need to be provided with opportunities to make it to E to begin with.

I see a big difference between pressuring someone, and recognizing them for who they are and providing them with choices. Cultivating curiosity.

Personally, when I was asked to read Camus at 14, I was beyond happy. I loved the existentialism concept already. I wished I'd have had access to a school with a more classical learning, where I could have discussed philosophy with people my age. Instead, I was alone and asked to hide who I was in school.

Now, where I am getting is that : the public schools nowadays are so dumbed  down that anyone that is above average likely feels bored.  Children are taught to be nice, don't play too rough, let's sit in a circle and all be equal. Sure. I see value in teaching respect, and in all that matter, we ARE equal, but we all have different biological capabilities and there is no way around it. We need to work with those, not against.

And I'm not even talking about boys, who seldom get any men as teachers anymore... Who need to sit all day and they biologically need to be moving around more. Is it really a surprise that they have more comportmental issues?

Personnally, when they majored the grades of everyone in university, when I realized mine couldn't even be majored enough, because that made me above 100, it strucked me as deeply unfair. Yet, saying it out loud, I was somehow the one with the problem because I should just accept that everyone needs to be equal? How about we stop thinking poorly of manual work instead and accept that not everyone is built to become a physicist or an engineer? What is wrong exactly with being more technical and manual? I certainly don't look down on those professions.

So why the shame? I never shamed anyone that didn't do well in school, but I did question why everyone needed to do well in school. Some people are better at other things, why not help them become who they are instead?

Like I said, there is a big difference between recognizing giftedness and above than average intelligence and offering options, cultivating it, and pressuring someone into being who they aren't.

[Turkish]

Thanks so much for all of the feedback and support. I kind of took it off on a tangent, but I'll close by saying that S12 feels OK at his mom's. Also, that he got up early today to finish homework that he forgot to do over the weekend. I told him I was proud of him for taking the initiative.

The "no homework" rubric that the district adopted the year before covid is confusing. There's no homework... unless there is. Note to self: keep asking each day, especially on Fridays.

D10's 5th grade homework is 20 mins of reading/night, no logs as there were from K-2nd.