Advice for Couples Therapy with High Functioning uBPDw

[LifewithEase]

My high functioning uBPDw and I have agreed to start couples therapy. Our goal is to create more harmony in the household and lower conflict.

I'm looking for advice and experience with couples therapy with their uBPDw.

I've research the BPDfamily website (threads below). But looking for fresh perspective, resonance, and conversation.

Many trusted friends and family, including my personal Therapists and my social worker best friend, said to be wary of going to therapy with a pwPBD:

> the risk that uBPDw will make it about their grievances, only defending herself, casting all blame on me

> she will use therapy as a "seal of approval" for divorce or  separation, something she can use with her family and friends, but most of all with our kids (lots of my own insecurity built in this one ;)

> if the therapist is not clued in to BPD, uBPDw will use therapy to validate her point-of-view (BPD feelings v. facts) without dealing with her part

> the risk that uBPDw will "beat me up" emotionally in/out of the room 
   - (in past counseling after a calm, pleasant, adult exchange about a hard topic that uBPDw felt uncomfortable with, my uBPDw would rage at me in the parking lot and give me the silent treatment for days afterward. Happened every-single-time we touched on something hard).

My high function uBPDw comes across amazingly put-together, calm, well-mannered, but most importantly highly articulate, nimble & organized in thought, yet stays away from vulnerabilities or hard truth (unless it is about my biggest struggles or insecurities); she can be brutally honest but in a way that keeps up appearances

Also, it was highly suggested to me not to "mention" BPD to the new therapist, at least initially. Making therapy about BPD could trigger in all the wrong ways. She does have Anosognosia*. I think she knows something is up deep down inside but can't deal with the vulnerability. She will not even talk to me about the mental illness of her father, aunt, and uncle.

We have been in couples therapy before, and the pattern was for uBPDw to bail out when the long hard work shifted focused on her. I usually went first as the more empathic one... willing to be vulnerable. The caretaker, right

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Cat Familiar]

What are you hoping to accomplish through couples therapy? Have you done individual therapy and disclosed that your partner has BPD?

[LifewithEase]

I have been in individual therapy and working hard. My uBPDw knows I'm in therapy and is threatened by it but also just doesn't care/engage in areas of vulnerability and intimacy (emotional).

And just this week, I learned that my uBPDw is seeing an individual therapist.

My goal is modest understanding the depth of the BPD challenge: I want to see if there is a way to increase harmony for the family.

My hope, however, is that as a high functioning pwBPD it might tap a part of her that is looking for help.

In all my anger and frustration I might have missed (and my Therapist picked up on and highlighted) actions and words by uBPDw that might be signaling that she wants help, is scared but just doesn't know what to do or how to do. A 3rd party might be better to uncover this. If this helps with that, just a little bit... it might be useful.

[LifewithEase]

Update:

Our first T session actually went well. Generally does, no? Everyone on their best behavior. But in seriousness, it felt like a good dynamic. My wife was open, listening, said some telling things that confirms she is scared inside, lost as to how to deal with this all. T did a lot of validation of wife's anger, frustration and sadness. It was wonderful to see my wife open about her feelings.

Of course harsh words were said by uBPDw "my whole family and friends think he is a joke." The therapist taken back while observing me in real time, trying to understand my reaction to these harsh comments. It gave me an opportunity to share that I don't have to defend myself and react to her daily badgering and dismissiveness (again trying to paint a BPD picture) and that these types of comments are not new.

We left in a peaceful, communicative space. My wife wants to go back.

But no surprise, later that afternoon she went on a hardcore dysregulation (sent me an email saying she was going to kick me off her employer's family health-insurance), was cold, silent treatment, and pouty all weekend long. Kids asked why Mom was so down. I validated their feelings.

Important Question: How do you respond to the accusation of gaslighting?

During the session, after I started to unpack some of the behavior (but never mentioning  BPD directly), my uBPDw accused me of gaslighting. The context was that I don't take all of her grievances seriously. The T took special note. I did not get defensive but felt very defensive. Kinda a classic pwBPD move, no?

A bit later I very clearly highlighted what I learned from our last couple's therapist - that I better understood my wife's needs and how it impacts her when she doesn't have those needs met. My hope is as the therapist gets to know us she'll understand the one-way street.

So, anyone have thoughts on how to respond to the accusation of gaslighting from a pwBPD?

[Ergonomics]

Interesting thread that I will be following -

Both individual and couples therapy didn't really work for me, and I've spent a lot researching and working with the supposed best ones out there in my area. So I wanted to see what I did wrong there.

I've since purchased another coaching program by Geoffrey Setiawan that has really been helping me and the whole relationships as a whole. I've been quite happy with it actually. I'm still doing individual therapy on the side, and using it as a supplement to what I am learning in that program, but I've since stopped couples therapy.

I don't really have good feedback for you as I could not make therapy work, but these are some of the reasons why the couples therapy did not work for me:

- My wife would open up during the therapy session, but as soon as we went home, it was a different story. Not sure what was happening there, but it's like everything we talked about during the session would be moot or forgotten.

- The diagnosis was spot on, but the treatments and next steps that we got were requiring a lot of willpower. We could do it for a while, but it just felt unnatural and really difficult to do. It's like trying to force love. It felt fake.

- I know the therapist tried hard, but eventually, as we went deeper, it became more and more like sides were being chosen. This was our fear when we first signed up for therapy, and even then, we found ourselves falling into it.

- But the biggest reason I think was me. I went into therapy already having diagnosed my partner, myself and what I thought was going on, and that really poisoned the whole thing.

[leedsfan1109]

In my experience, I feel like therapy should be you looking inward, and not identifying what's wrong with your partner, right?

It seems like you're doing the opposite of that, which runs the risk of the therapy sessions becoming more of a blame game and choosing sides than anything. I made this mistake at first, and she closed up too.

But once I changed my approach, she actually opened up a lot more.

[LifewithEase]

Great point.

Early therapy sessions are always a difficult mix of background, airing of the grievances and internal work.

In the past, when I've done the hard work of "opening up" my uBPDw usually dismisses me or uses it against me. Also, it sets the table as to where the conversation starts - my PLEASE READ, not my wife's. As I've mentioned before, when it finally is time to focus on my wife, she opts out.

This time I'm navigating it differently. Letting my wife air her grievances which gives the MC a lot of material and perspective to work with. My non-defensive, validating, empathic approach is hard but it comes with boundaries.

A couple sessions in, it is hard to tell where it will go.

Sidenote: my uBPDw did agree to no retaliation for what is said outside the sessions. Yet the last session she went right into anger, cold shoulder and silent treatment. No surprise.

[kells76]

Sidenote: my uBPDw did agree to no retaliation for what is said outside the sessions. Yet the last session she went right into anger, cold shoulder and silent treatment. No surprise.

Am I reading you correctly that she actually did those "retaliatory" behaviors in a session, in front of the MC?

And did she agree to the "no retaliation" rule in front of the MC?

This seems like a good question to bring back to the session -- "I'm confused... I thought there was agreement about X as a rule... how can we move forward to focus on our issues when it seems that we treat the rules differently... what have you seen work... what do you recommend..."

I wonder if some pwBPD distract/fixate on minutae ("Well, silent treatment isn't retaliation, so I followed the rule") in order to keep the focus on things that aren't as overwhelming/shaming to deal with. The longer she can keep the three of you (you, her, MC) wound up on "well I wasn't technically breaking the rule", the longer she can avoid the real stuff.

Perhaps phrasing your "befuddlement" about "I thought we agreed" to include the "move forward to the issues" may indicate that you don't want to spend your MC time litigating stuff that just keeps you from working on core issues.

That being said, the way your W copes with this "preliminary" stuff -- just the ground rules, not even the core issues -- will likely be telling to the MC.

A couple sessions in, it is hard to tell where it will go.

That can be normal. As long as you feel you have the strength to let things play out, to -- in a sense -- step back and let your W show the MC who she is -- then it can be OK not to know where it goes this early. I think I'm tracking that you have a sense that it's OK enough for you so far? I.e. not damaging to you?

[SilverSwan]

I've been to 10 different counselors with my husband in 18 years.  I will assert with 100% conviction that the average therapist does not have the ability to help an individual with BPD and they certainly don't have the ability to help a couple impacted by BPD.    Cognitive behavioral therapy was the biggest disaster. The empathy model was the next biggest disaster.   My bpd husband is charming and turns therapy into a 'show' he feeds off of showing the therapist that he can 'do a good job' and the average therapist plays right into it... showing enthusiasm for behaviors that "look right" on the surface and ignoring the desperate need to have the therapist take sides. 
  I'd be very very careful with any therapist who.does not have specific training with bpd.   It is my option that an unqualified therapists advice led to my husband's first suicide attempt.    She advised him to go back to the home of his abusive parents and engage them in conversation. I protested strongly saying no good would come of it and that it worried me. She told me I was controlling and standing in my.husbands way.  However a week after taking her advise he tried to kill himself.

Id absolutely tell the therapist if you think bpd is at play and ask of they have experience with it. 
If you start to see a therapist take sides or if therapy leads to more fights at home, take those as clues that you have not found the right help.
I've spent a fortune and brought in 'famous' 'highly educated' professionals with popular published books and their in session techniques are just not built to handel the BPD complexity.   Keep your ears sharp and pay attention to your gut feeling. If you feel like its maybe not good, then its probably not good.

[LifewithEase]

Thanks SilverSwan

My therapist knows about the BPD with the recommendation of our MC. Further, T agreed with common thinking that BPD should not be brought up right away. TBD, as to when it is stated explicitly?

In the last session, my uBPDw kinda went off the rails (yet kept her self amazingly together, stayed articulate). The therapist asked "do you think you are mean and abusive?" And I've been using clear words to signal: dysregulation, silent treatments, black/white thinking, anger/rage/irritability, constantly dissatisfied, emotional intimacy, anxiety.

Too early to tell if the MC is noticing the BPD.

My bigger worry is that my uBPDw's individual therapist might not see the BPD but also might be believe the incorrect narrative she presents.

I'm hyper aware and "ears sharp." Thanks to these board discussions I can vent, level set and manage expectations.

[LifewithEase]

Update for those of you who are following.

The process and experience are slow going but feel more positive than negative. A few high level points:

- Does seem to be getting worse (before it gets better), for example, longer harder silent treatments after MC sessions. Yet outbursts in MC sessions are alarming yet helpful for MC to understand full context

- MC is amazingly balancing my uBPDw feelings and her behavior, calling out inappropriate behavior

- I suspect MC is using DBT without explicitly saying so and it seems to be helping, at least in process

- I'm empowered because I have another adult (professional) in the room experiencing much of what I do alone

- My uBPDw seems calmer, I am more bulletproof and confident, from my validation and boundary work. I'm getting over the validation exhaustion and feel like my reactions are more of a muscle now.

[kells76]

LWE, these are helpful insights you've had.

This stood out to me:

- My uBPDw seems calmer, I am more bulletproof and confident, from my validation and boundary work. I'm getting over the validation exhaustion and feel like my reactions are more of a muscle now.

That makes sense to me, even though I hadn't seen it that way before. The fact that validation may be tiring, unintuitive, or feel "rote" or "like pulling teeth" at first, doesn't necessarily indicate that it isn't working or won't help... it could more be indicating that it's new to you.

Sort of like how when you get into running, those first few runs are an absolute slog, like trudging through concrete. That doesn't indicate that "running doesn't work" or "it'll always be this hard" or "it must not be for me". It more indicates -- your muscles are getting used to it. Over time it'll become more "muscle memory" and more effective to run, so first impressions/experiences aren't the whole of it.

This also stood out to me:

- I'm empowered because I have another adult (professional) in the room experiencing much of what I do alone[/b].

It sounds like even though the MC balances your W's feelings & behavior (i.e. I'm assuming the MC doesn't call out every little thing your W says or does), just knowing that another sane adult is seeing the outbursts and hearing the harmfully intense emotions means a lot to you. Like you said, it's empowering, and maybe validating, too.

...

Now that you're at this point in MC, having these experiences, and making these observations about the counselor, what are your thoughts and feelings about MC?

[LifewithEase]

Good to read your post kells76

I think it is too early to share my opinion about MC. I'm thinking about it all the time because the bulk of thoughtful folks on and off these boards have shared that MC has a low chance of helping.

On the negative, I feel that my uBPDw is so convinced nothing is wrong with her, on so many levels. I can't imagine her getting to the place where she owns BPD, even just owning her heightened anxiety, and then doing the hard, awkward, and vulnerable emotional work. Depressing, I know.

On the positive, I can sense she is trying hard... she's high functioning and good at everything she does. So she damn will be good at therapy. But because of childhood emotional neglect, lack of empathy (even for herself), and deep insecurities I feel like she is at a lost as what to do... that is one main reason I think MC is good step.

Sidenote: The empathy I love about me (not the caretaker/enabling), the healthy, loving part of me, for her... why not at least trying "bringing her to the water"... it will be up to her to drink, however. We can't forget with all the venting we do on these boards, many BPDs have good parts in them.

She even finally admitted to the MC... "even if I wanted to change, I don't know where to start, what to do." That in my humble opinion was brave.