Thoughts on children's emotions as the child of a BPD parent in a sick society

[Notwendy]

These PD's can overlap and are on a spectrum and she's got elements of both BPD and NPD. Looking at diagnostic criteria (DSM) she has 9/9 of the ones for BPD- I've seen all of them in her behavior. I know we aren't professionals but I think living with someone for a while, and we see the behaviors many times, we can say we saw it. For NPD there are 10 criteria and someone needs to meet 5 of them. From what I have seen, she has 3 of them. So her behaviors fit BPD far better than NPD, but she does have some traits of NPD.

As to her function, she's complicated. She is intelligent. She reads a lot. Being intelligent, she is able to manipulate well. Her emotional instability is what interferes with her ability to use her intelligence in carrying out tasks, which makes her low functioning and dependent on others to do things for her. People do what they know to do best so to get things done that she needs, she gets people to do things for her.

Her sense of entitlement( NPD ) traits also masquerades her difficulty functioning and preserves her self image (avoids shame). She may or may not be able to do something, but she then can come across at this being "beneath her" and refuse to do it, or enlist someone else to do it for her. We have learned to not ask her to do anything.

One NPD trait she has is that I have not seen her show empathy.

[zanyapple]

zanyapple,

In my case, what I'm thinking is that I don't really resent my mother for what happened in the past, but rather, for the fact that I am still walking on eggshells, and still scared of doing something that may set her off, and as such, I do things that I really don't want to do, just to keep the peace. This is what I think leads to resentment.

How do you get over this?

I've been very combative with her ever since I'm able to live my own life now; I feel like I have the upper hand some ways. Sometimes, I wish I had siblings so someone at least understands and has gone through the same experiences with me.

[Riv3rW0lf]

How do you get over this?

I've been very combative with her ever since I'm able to live my own life now; I feel like I have the upper hand some ways. Sometimes, I wish I had siblings so someone at least understands and has gone through the same experiences with me.

I have two siblings that have "gone through the same thing"... And truly they didn't. All our experiences are different and we were all wedged against one another.

One is now a diagnosed bipolar with addictions issues, and possibly borderline. The other possibly a communal narcissist whom I barely speak with... Both don't recognize our mother's illness for what it is. One understand why I a NC while still pushing for me to talk to her, taking her defense every chance he gets. The other doesn't talk to me anymore, this is a backlash against my decision to go no contact...

All this to say : siblings within a dysfunctional family might not help all that much, and sometimes they even make things worst.  

What you seem to be looking for is validation... And we can give a lot of that to you. The goal, however, I think, is to be able to provide this for yourself. Reparent yourself. This is how you develop strong boundaries, and stop building resentment. It certainly helped me... And when I fail, coming to this safe space really helps.

Did you give therapy a shot yet? It is a process to untangle oneself from one's trauma. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time, patience and lots of self compassion... And is a lifelong work.

There are lots of tools here on this forum and website.  

[zanyapple]

Did you give therapy a shot yet? It is a process to untangle oneself from one's trauma. It doesn't happen overnight. It takes time, patience and lots of self compassion... And is a lifelong work.

I had before, but I haven't really found a therapist that I truly liked. I'm also debating the costs since it's only partially covered by insurance.

You're right. A sibling doesn't really guarantee you'd get understanding from them.

I just wish my mother doesn't bother me anymore. Her happiness just hinges on my life, like she's living vicariously through me. I wish I had money to pay her to shut up. She's also kinda money hungry.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zanyapple,

Have you considered whether you were maybe C-PTSD? Many of us developped this condition as a result of being raised by a mother with BPD.

The book C-PTSD: From surviving to thriving was a huge help for me. This is where I started my journey, personnally.

[zanyapple]

Zanyapple,

Have you considered whether you were maybe C-PTSD? Many of us developped this condition as a result of being raised by a mother with BPD.

The book C-PTSD: From surviving to thriving was a huge help for me. This is where I started my journey, personnally.

I don't know if it's exactly that, but I'm sure I've developer some kind of trauma. Is this what you are experiencing?

[Couscous]

After reading your account NW I also thought that your mother sounds a lot more NPD than BPD. My mother has a strong narcissistic streak, but she does have a maternal side to her especially around babies and young children, and basically I could repeat what RW wrote about her mother about the shopping and cooking, except mine only became resentful when we were older.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Zanyapple,

Well, when I talk about my mother being a trigger what I mean is that, the only thing that truly linked me to her was FOG (fear, obligation, guilt), mainly fear. I would call her out of a feeling of obligation to make sure she was okay, that she wouldn't start getting depressed. When I didn't want her to hold my baby girl after a traumatic birth, she would look at me, and just her eyes were enough for the guilt to set in, and I would give in. When I said no, she would rage, which would trigger my trauma...

Overtime in her presence, I start feeling incredibly small. I lose myself, my individuality. Bear in mind, I have a master in science now, am a mother of two, have my own company, am married, I mean... I should be able to fend for myself, yes?... And yet, in her presence, I lose all my self-esteem, I don't know how to react, I don't know who I am anymore. I become increasingly anxious and guilt-ridden, I feel like a bad person, like I don't belong, like I am deeply wrong... All the feelings I used to feel on a near constant basis when I was a child. This is my C-PTSD.

When we were away, when there was distance between us, my C-PTSD was almost imperceptible, perfectly meshed with my personality. It didn't keep me to do things, but it was like this constant idea in the back of my head that I would never be enough.

Doing things out of FOG lead to resentment, but because I couldn't express it to her (because of the fear), I would lash out against myself or other, safer people, or drown myself in work until exhaustion...

C-PTSD doesn't show up the same way in everyone, but it usually include triggers that make you lose your footing, more than an average person would... Like you a trapped in a terrified child's body.  

The resentment is something else, but still, to an extent, comes from this part of you that was forced to be enmeshed with her for so long, the part that tried to individuate, only to be told it was wrong, and a bad person for doing so...

I mean... I can be wrong, but I do think most of us found, behind that resentment, a scared and enraged inner child that needed reparenting on our part... And this book gives a lot of details as to how to do that.

It is a hard part to contact, and connect with, because it triggers a lot of pain and vulnerability... But it is so very worth it...

[Couscous]

She's also kinda money hungry.

I got the sense from reading your first post on BPDFamily that she is extremely entitled when it comes to money. It would make a lot of sense that you would feel resentment for being financially exploited — perhaps this is an area where some boundaries are in order, and the money you save could be better spent on therapy.

[Notwendy]

It's hard to fit her exactly. I have known people who I thought were NPD and they were more functional than she is. She has had more of the inability to function behaviors- dissociates a lot, rages, trashes the house and some other disordered behavior that is more BPD. With the whole thing on a PD spectrum, it may be that these behaviors are what impacts her function and they are the most noticeable while her actual personality - her thinking-is more like NPD.

Her lack of empathy is so eerie. If we are sad about something- she shows no emotion, she looks at us with an emotionless stare. Or says something like "you need to get over that". This is different from families that don't show emotions. She shows emotions- yelling, screaming, crying, but I have not seen her show true empathy. Sometimes she'll reply with an "awww" but it sounds fake.

It's interesting as I found out about BPD when searching the internet for information about NPD. There's a person in our community who is NPD. I wondered if this was what was going on with my mother, but it didn't quite fit and this other person was different- had a professional degree, was functional, but hard to deal with. Then there was a section on BPD and that fit better.

I think it would be hard to say she's one or the other, as she also can pull herself together well, so I think even a professional would not see all of her behaviors, and since all the PD's overlap, possible to have some of both.

[Notwendy]

Zanyapple,

About the resentment about how you were raised and how to get past it. I think it's a process- first is discovery- to me it was "that really happened and how could anyone treat a child like that". As kids we don't know what normal is and our parents are our only example. As adults, we see it differently, and if we experience being a mother- we come across situations where our mothers acted in ways we would not.

My mother tells a story about when I was a toddler, I "threw up on her carpet on purpose". What toddler throws up on purpose? As adults we have seen that a toddler throws up because they ate something that upset their stomach or had a stomach bug. No toddler throws up on purpose. It's this disordered thinking that led to how our mothers parented us.

One thing that helped me to let go of resentment of what my mother did in the past was understanding her mental illness and realizing how it impacted her behavior and how she parented. The Karpman triangle helped me understand how her taking victim perspective distorted how she interpreted other people's behavior. This doesn't mean what she did is acceptable. But it helped me to see if differently.

I've gone to both counselors and 12 step ACA/CODA groups and both have been helpful. ACA isn't only for children of parents who have alcohol addiction. It is for children who grew up with dysfunction too. The families seem to behave in similar ways- and so the dynamics and issues are similar. If finances are a concern, these 12 step groups don't cost anything. They do sometimes ask for donations (voluntary) for expenses if they rent a space or buy educational materials but there are no fees to participate.

Mostly now, my concern is about my mother's behavior in the present. She's elderly and needs care and her behaviors make that difficult. So getting over resentment doesn't mean there may be no behaviors of concern. It becomes more about how do we manage our own response to what is going on now.

[zanyapple]

@Notwendy:

Zanyapple,

My mother tells a story about when I was a toddler, I "threw up on her carpet on purpose". What toddler throws up on purpose? As adults we have seen that a toddler throws up because they ate something that upset their stomach or had a stomach bug. No toddler throws up on purpose. It's this disordered thinking that led to how our mothers parented us.

This is a very good example. Growing up, I know I resented my mother. But as mentioned, I resented her even more after becoming a parent. Because she has punished me severely for things that I didn't really do on purpose.

For example, many times in the past, I was severely beaten up for tattling to the neighbors. But as a small child, I didn't really know what to say and what not to say to anyone unless I am repeatedly briefed/coached. Even then, sometimes I forget. But I don't intentionally "tattle" for the sake of tattling or wanting to embarrass her or divulge inappropriate matters. I just liked talking and being social, that's all.

And this is what I learned after becoming a parent. Especially that my child is very social, she just tells everyone everything, and I can't imagine punishing her for that. For example, she barged in the bedroom and saw me naked. Apparently, she told her teacher that, so I told her not to share private things like that. If it were my mother, she would've punished me severely because in her mind, a small child "should know better" not to share things like that. I understand that parenting is the hardest thing, but to expect certain things from a child like this is baffling.

It seems like my resentment towards her has become stronger as I'm learning more about children in general.

I've gone to both counselors and 12 step ACA/CODA groups and both have been helpful. ACA isn't only for children of parents who have alcohol addiction. It is for children who grew up with dysfunction too. The families seem to behave in similar ways- and so the dynamics and issues are similar. If finances are a concern, these 12 step groups don't cost anything. They do sometimes ask for donations (voluntary) for expenses if they rent a space or buy educational materials but there are no fees to participate.

Thank you for this. Do you mind sharing how to get into those groups? I saw this website https://aaagnostica.org/al-anon-aca-and-coda/, but I'm not sure where to navigate to. I appreciate your help in advance.

[Notwendy]

I was referred to a 12 step group by a counselor. Most areas have them listed online. If you google "recovery 12 step groups" usually this information is online. There are several kinds but I think the ones that fit us are ACA and CODA.

I am glad you posted a website about the concern of religious tone of these groups. I understand this can feel off putting to some people- but I think it can be worked around any belief system - or non belief one- and still be helpful. I'd not let it interfere with how it can help- however, it should not be too uncomfortable either.

These groups do not adhere to, or promote, any specific religion. However, with any book, one needs to look at the time period and the background of the authors. The original 12 step Blue Book (for AA) was written by Christians and also in the era where they addressed the alcoholics as the men, and then addressed their wives as the supporting (enabling) partner. The language reflects their background- that is how they communicated at the time.

In my own groups, I know people of all religions, and atheists. We also have same sex couples, both women and men can be either co-dependent or the person with the addiction. Each person has adapted the "language" to a belief system that works for them and to their own relationships.

Each group tends to have a dynamic to it as well. Some are large and diverse, some are small. It may take attending a few of them to see which one you feel fits you best.

When the steps refer to "Higher Power" of "God of our understanding" the point is to let go of the idea that we can control everything, and especially the illusion that we can control another person. One way to let go of this is to concede there's something higher out there than us- for some it may be God, for others it may be nature, or the universe, or their own idea. Part of becoming less co-dependent is to not try to control another person's feelings.