What did NC to LC look like for you?

[Imatter33]

Was it a conscious choice on your part to pick up the phone and break NC?

I believe I have a longing for some kind of relationship, and yet I’m aware that “longing for” could easily propel me to make contact again out of a mom daughter  fantasy played out in my head.

I’m thinking more realistically about what I would be comfortable with “ giving my mom” in terms of a zero relationship to something else.

The grey rocking technique is something I’m sure LC people know well.. and I’m trying to weigh how valuable going from NC to grey rocking LC would be.

From a “we don’t speak”

To: “ how’s the weather?”
“ hope you’re well.”


I don’t know about it.

My longing is to communicate that I have always loved my mom despite NC and yet :
implementing a way she can be in my life in a real way… still overwhelms me.

Bc I know I still want any contact to be so so so limited.  ( the boundary)

I never thought NC would last so long.
I never knew it would change the dynamic between me and my siblings so drastically. ( we basically do not talk)

Something as simple as saying hello could have a huge impact on everybody. Mostly me.

Bc after it’s done… then what?

I think there’s a good chance my family thinks I’m teaching mom a lesson with all this.

I of course know that is not the case.
Our relationship will not go from NC to what it was before… with the family thinking… “guess imatter33 is finally over it.”

Boundaries are not easily learned in NC.

I think I’m still no good at it.


I think I still deal with FOG and I wonder what IT is I think I’ll gain from LC.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Imatter33,

I could have written what you wrote... I understand so very much. I do feel this longing once in a while... For me, what keeps me from going from no contact to low contact though is a fear... The fear of the backlash, that I will get punished for even going no contact in the first place... That she will keep bringing it up... Like... There is simply no coming back from the leap I took.

My brother also doesn't speak to me anymore... But I do think it is for the best... I honestly can't say that I enjoy him very much... In the end, what I long for is a healthy family...but truth is, the discomfort in my family has only gotten worst over time. And in the end, I do feel better by myself than with them around to remind me how a bad person I am... 

[zachira]

So many of the feelings you describe about being NC with your mother reflect how painful and confusing being NC and/or LC can be with a close family member, especially a mother. You are struggling with the boundaries as so many of us here on PSI do. For me, the most painful and challenging part of setting healthy boundaries with my large dysfunctional family and their enablers has been setting boundaries with the flying monkeys. Once the flying monkeys are no longer so easily able to use me as a source of information/misinformation, I find that setting boundaries with the family members I am low contact with is much easier.

[Notwendy]

How old is your mother? Is she married to your father or live with someone supportive to her? Is she financially stable?

I ask because I am not NC with my BPD mother, by my own decision due to her age and widowed status and my own ethics which I have struggled with.

On her part, I am not sure it matters to her or not, as she doesn't seem that invested in a relationship with me, but she's a widow and elderly and it didn't feel ok to be NC. I am LC though, there needs to be some distance for me.

I don't know if I could have initiated NC myself, but in my situation she had discarded the relationship after my father died and I could have gone NC then but it didn't feel OK to do it. Had she been younger or remarried, I think she'd have been fine with NC with me- she might have done it herself, but on my part, I'd have known she had someone to care for her.

From the LC experience- she hasn't learned boundaries. Boundaries aren't for the other person. I don't think she's learned anything on that part. Our relationship is calmer, less drama- that's on my part as I don't engage in that. The relationship is not better. She hasn't learned different skills to do that. It's more distant, colder. I don't think she cares about it. She mainly sees me as someone to be useful to her.

It comes down to me, what can I manage according to my own ethics. Would I feel OK if I had cut contact with her? That would have been hard to do as she's in contact with other family members who I don't want to cut contact with. There's no way I could have remained in contact with my father if I had gone NC with her. In this sense, LC makes contact with family members easier, but some are her flying monkeys and I have to maintain an emotional distance from anyone who is.

It's still hard to do. She's still disordered. She's compromised her health care and her finances with her disordered need for control and has refused to allow the people closest to her to have any information about her finances. At this point, I see this as being selfish and uncaring because we worry about her and if she has enough to meet her needs. She's reckless with her money and property with total strangers. She's manipulative with her home health care workers and non compliant with her medical providers. She doesn't seem to care about anyone else's feelings, not even the people closest to her.

If you choose to do LC, do it for yourself- do what you feel is best for you whether it's NC or LC. Do what you feel you need to do to protect yourself from abuse. Don't do it with the expectation of a certain outcome on your mother's part. Maybe she will learn boundaries, maybe she won't. If LC is safe for you, it opens up some possibility for something better but there's not a guarantee. I think on my part, that's another reason-to leave that possibility open, even if the probability of that is very small or even not at all. It may not matter to her that I do, but I think it does to me.

[livednlearned]

Was it a conscious choice on your part to pick up the phone and break NC?

I was NC with my dad for 7 years and we are back in touch.

It was a conscious choice to break NC and I all but trained for it with a therapist.

My father is not BPD, though we have undiagnosed BPD in our family (my sibling). My father is the golden child of a hermit/waif mother and my mother is an adult child. The golden child dynamic is very pronounced, so he has strong narcissistic traits and little to no self-reflection. He is never wrong.

It doesn't help that he is misogynistic. Women are not full people.

The emotionally stunted and dysfunctional behaviors will in all likelihood remain until the end given that my parents are not self-reflective and would never in a million years seek therapy. I accept that.

When we reconnected, nothing was said about the 7 year estrangement. We walked to dinner, ate, and that was it, like we were acquaintances.

I went into the experience as an opportunity to focus entirely on me, and to not initiate anything that felt remotely like intimacy, since intimacy appears to be a trigger for vulnerability in them, and vulnerability leads to aggression -- that's how they protect themselves.

At the time of our reconnection, I was in therapy and had been for years, including trauma-based therapy (somatic experiencing therapy). My husband has been wonderful, right down to helping me pay attention to mind-body connections. Together with limited encounters, we have been able to have contact although the relationship is deeply damaged and most of the time I am looking for and avoiding landmines. I have to accept that I cannot let my guard down and that I must be the emotional leader, which in this relationship means letting go of things when I start to become animated.

My husband pointed out that I have been letting my guard down more and more, and it concerns him. It's so helpful to have a guide on this journey that can give you blunt feedback about whether you're backsliding.

If you want to reconnect, it might be best to ensure you have support in place. Real support. Talk to someone before you reconnect, and arrange to talk to them after. Maybe start with a quick note, chatty and light. In my experience with people who fear vulnerability, it's wise to share your feelings with someone you trust, and then with the people you're related to, treat them like acquaintances because that's a safer emotional distance for them.

If there is any part of you expecting a change in who they are, it might be that you need more time, more healing. I appreciated my last therapist's advice to pay attention to what my body was doing, what my body was telling me when I was around them. Did my breathing change, was my jaw clenched, what were my hands doing. She encouraged me to look around the room and note anything that was the color red, and to name objects as I looked at them if I felt myself becoming activated.

We met for a short visit at their house one night and when we left, I reached the ground floor and had a crippling back spasm. My husband had to go get the car.

You have to be prepared for your body to protest, and then to listen to those signals. When there is trauma, it can be hard for us to drop back into our bodies and stay there to feel what's going on, and then to listen to those feelings -- usually they are guiding us to safety. That can be socially awkward but it's part of my new normal. I've left events a bit abruptly when I feel myself becoming overwhelmed, a new behavior I'm learning. And I am putting boundaries back in place I had softened, like allowing them to stay at our place.

Be ready for low contact to activate feelings from childhood -- that kind of goes with the territory. But if you have learned new skills, it can be a bit like practicing and refining those skills. Too little, too much, a pinch more of this or that. I couldn't exist without my family when I was a kid, and then when I was adult, I continued to feel that way, even though I lived on my own. Now I'm living on my own and I feel separate and individuated from them. I try to examine the feelings that come up when I'm around them and use them to learn what is in need of healing, what is in need of kindness and love and caring.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Be ready for low contact to activate feelings from childhood -- that kind of goes with the territory. But if you have learned new skills, it can be a bit like practicing and refining those skills. Too little, too much, a pinch more of this or that. I couldn't exist without my family when I was a kid, and then when I was adult, I continued to feel that way, even though I lived on my own. Now I'm living on my own and I feel separate and individuated from them. I try to examine the feelings that come up when I'm around them and use them to learn what is in need of healing, what is in need of kindness and love and caring.

Not my post here, but did want to thank you LnL for this wisdom you shared. Deeply resonated here and came at a proper moment for me too. Thank you.

[pursuingJoy]

Was it a conscious choice on your part to pick up the phone and break NC?

love all of what lnl shared.

My family tried to act normal but they were really cautious, like I was going to bolt with any sudden movement. Boundary busting behavior returned, but slowly, and it was more measured. It felt more manageable.

I attributed the cautiousness to my dysfunctional family but when my oldest reached out after going NC, I felt the same caution. I can't guarantee it, but your family will likely have a measured response, at least at the beginning.

In my case, family approval was necessary to feel belonging. Reconnecting showed them (and me) that I was ok, whether they approved or not. It's been about 13 years, and oddly enough, several of my siblings have expressed admiration or taken their own stand because I did.

I reconnected when it was something I needed. I healed a little more, felt stronger and adept at navigating difficult people and awkward situations. I modeled emotional healing for my kids. I'm not really close to my family, but in our way, we support each other and I feel connected to my history and roots which meets an emotional need for me.

when you're ready, are there practical, less awkward and safer ways to start small? A card for a holiday? A reaction or comment on a Family facebook post? A text response to someone on the fringes?

I'm proud of you for even considering the option. I think you're brave and I trust you to know if and when you're ready.

[livednlearned]

I'm proud of you for even considering the option. I think you're brave and I trust you to know if and when you're ready.

I echo the admiration.

I feel it's healthy to poke at these yearnings and to look at them from a lot of angles, and to seek support, like from friends here.

It's really wise put a toe in the water and explore what comes up for you reading here. 

[Imatter33]

Thank you all.
I was looking at a different forum the other day of which i am not a part and I was stunned at the rudeness of the users. Everyone has always been kind here and thoughtful. 

Exactly what I was needing I got. A variety of responses to get me thinking critically while also validating my yearning emotions.

 I can see without a shadow of a doubt that the holidays on the horizon trigger me terribly every year.  Making plans with my H's family causes resentment. The plans themselves make me  yearn for what's not there with my own family..So I did need to "dip my toe in" to quote LNL. I need to know if I am learning and what I am still afraid of.
To be cont...
Bc there is indeed more...

[Notwendy]

Be ready for low contact to activate feelings from childhood -- that kind of goes with the territory. But if you have learned new skills, it can be a bit like practicing and refining those skills.

I try to examine the feelings that come up when I'm around them and use them to learn what is in need of healing, what is in need of kindness and love and caring.

Yes this happens. You may have memories come back that you had not thought about recently. I agree with paying attention to your body. I notice I don't sleep well if I have been around my mother. One difference is that you can process the feelings from the adult perspective you have now.

One consideration between NC or LC is how much the contact affects you. It's really about you and not them or their behavior, unless they are a serious danger to you- either emotionally or physically. Decide on what you need for your own well being. One thing I realized is that it's best for me to have physical distance from my mother- I feel safer with that.

This doesn't have to be logical feelings. My mother can't physically hurt me but we grew up afraid of her and that feeling can still be there. Still, I felt LC was better for me than NC. Neither is an easy decision. I think both are challenging. It really becomes up to your decision.

[2of3]

Was it a conscious choice on your part to pick up the phone and break NC?

I was LC with my parents and NC for almost 6 years.  I wrote a letter to my father, and in it stated I would never have contact with my mother again, but I loved him and missed him.  My father wrote back.  We scheduled a time to meet for lunch through email.  Lunch went okay. We spoke on the phone a few times.  Things steadily got worse and now I've gone NC.   This entire process was about six months.  This was the right approach for me.

One question you might want to ask is if it you would like the presence of a friend or loved one when things first get started?  My husband and our children did not want anything to do with my father.  I could have asked them to join me for the lunch, but decided to go on my own.  It was hard for them to watch everything unfold exactly as they predicted, but they understood that this is something I needed to do so they did the best they could to support me.

You may also want to reach out to other family members or even caregivers and let them know what you are planning. I only have one sibling still in contact with my elderly parents.  My contact definitely created flare ups in their relationship. For example, they started treating her worse (because now they had a back-up plan for who would take care of them in their old age) and then, when I cut ties, tried to drag her back in by sending our aunt and uncle with promises that my estranged siblings and I would all be disinherited and my sister would get the whole estate if she got back into their good graces.   Lots of drama for her that only made sense because she know what was happening on my side.

Your topic headline is: "What did NC to LC look like for you?" When my father responded to my letter and I decided to be in contact again, I was only hoping for LC.  Whereas in his mind this was the first step in reuniting the family and within a short period of time wanted me to come to their house for a visit; asking what I was planning for my mother's birthday party; expecting that I require my adult children to be in contact with them (refused to accept that I didn't have control over their decision); demanding that I go to family counselling with them (they won't go on their own); and announcing that he wanted to come check out my house because when my mother died he was going to move in; and that I had better start driving him to all his doctors appointments and making his meals.

For me LC was healthy, for him it wasn't enough.

Maybe I'm just awful at LC and don't understand the process.  But somehow I wonder if things would go better if we treated it more like a custody agreement with a mediator to help settle what each party is willing to do.  Perhaps my version of LC (ie excluding my mother) is more painful than NC?  I feel as though when he realized that I was unbudging on my NC with my mother he decided to just blow it all up?

I hope this helps someone.  Ultimately going NC to LC didn't work for me.  However, it was something that I'm glad I did.  Now I have no regrets or uncertainty that NC is the only option for me.

[Imatter33]

You all have helped me tremendously.  Things I see clearer now:
A. I think calling is the wrong medium for initiation.
B. I should consider therapy again before I change my life...ya know?
To quote, LNL
"It was a conscious choice to break NC and I all but trained for it with a therapist."
C. When I was in therapy a while ago my therapist shared, Don't let anxiety drive the car. I got feeling  almost frantic that i must do something because 4 years is TOO LONGGGGG. And the holidays are coming up again... and AHHHH ...you get it.
 Well as I read the 6, 7, 12 years of others here I felt better. I need to not let my anxiety drive me to this relationship again.

Your topic headline is: "What did NC to LC look like for you?" When my father responded to my letter and I decided to be in contact again, I was only hoping for LC.  Whereas in his mind this was the first step in reuniting the family and within a short period of time wanted me to come to their house for a visit; asking what I was planning for my mother's birthday party; expecting that I require my adult children to be in contact with them (refused to accept that I didn't have control over their decision); demanding that I go to family counselling with them (they won't go on their own); and announcing that he wanted to come check out my house because when my mother died he was going to move in; and that I had better start driving him to all his doctors appointments and making his meals.

For me LC was healthy, for him it wasn't enough.

TBH, I imagine this in my head all the time. First this influx of warm and fuzzies and then a gradual slow demand from my disordered parent.  And a dream of reuniting the family.

Add on the stress of perhaps mending relationships with estranged siblings and their misunderstandings, and their anger toward me for changing everything...


I just sit here sometimes...just sit here...

 NC feels like a warm bath sometimes. It is cold out there and I do not have a proper towel.

Also, Notwendy asked if my mom has anyone.
No one other than siblings.
She's been single since divorcing my father and she is waify and terrible with money.
I know that my sister especially likely feels abandoned by me. To  be the responsible one to hold her together... But everyone has to make their own choices. We simply cannot do every single thing a disordered person requests of us. She was always stronger at putting mom in her place and saying no. I wonder how that's been going for her...but I wont find out.

Just an aside as i write this: The positives of NC are tremendous. They truly are. I do not take my peace for granted. 

I often think about how an "I love you" feels to even friends that i haven't seen in a long time. Does it really mean much to even them? I think about love a lot. I'm a words of affirmation person but im aware  the words would only sting someone who needs it in another form. My best guess is my mom needs another form. and BPD in general need every form...100 percent of the time. 

I guess what love means to everyone is subjective. My need to say I love you to my mom could be met with...NO YOU DO NOT. and then where would I be?

Loving in my heart and thoughts gets tiresome. But I don't wish to change that yet.

Thank you BPDfam.

[pursuingJoy]

Someone wrote that grief is love with nowhere to go. I suspect you're right, that your mom would find a way to deflect and devalue your expressions of love, but I hope you find a good way outlet to express your love for your mom. I really admire that you want to.

I've been able to get through the holiday triggers and find some joy in creating new holiday traditions. I honor me and my chosen family by sustaining those traditions, even when they seem silly. I also have 4 friends who don't have family nearby and we celebrate together.

In fact, I'm going to start a thread and ask everyone about holiday traditions. Let's survive the trenches together.